Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
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Welcome to the “Getting To The Heart Of It with Sarah Torode-Martin” podcast. As the co-founder and CEO of Torode Solutions we assist people, first responders and Australian Defence Force veterans into positions with purpose. People are the heart of our business which is how "Getting to the Heart of it" was created. Drawing on my experience with over 20 years working within the Federal government and the consulting industry as well as what I’ve learnt from being a counsellor and coach, I dec ...
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S5E16 – Jade MacDonald Razvi: Freediving and ‘EH4AR’
1:33:16
1:33:16
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Jade MacDonald Razvi is a prominent Australian free diver and occupational therapist. She holds the second deepest dive in Australian history and recently won a bronze medal at the Free Diving World Cup. On this episode we talk about Jade’s growing up and freediving- how it works and how she trains. As well as EH4AR (‘everything happens for a reaso…
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S5E15 – Leigh Anderson: The Paramedic Mindset
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We first had the privilege of meeting Leigh Anderson on the 2022 Resilience Retreat and have been stoked to stay in touch from there – particularly so given the recent publication of his book, ‘The Paramedic Mindset’. In this episode, Leigh talk with us about that book, as well as his 14+ years as a paramedic. Leigh discusses the ups and downs of t…
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S5E14 – Kat Rae: On Art, Soldiering and Creativity Through Loss
1:08:11
1:08:11
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1:08:11
Kat Rae is an artist who works across an incredible variety of media. Her confronting work, Deathmin, was recently recognised as winner of the 2024 Napier Waller Art Prize and represents the fourth time Kat has been shortlisted for this prestigious award. In this podcast, Kat talks about her artistic journey, including her first career within the A…
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S5E13 – Bill Lennan: Making us 40% Better
1:07:24
1:07:24
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This week we host Bill Lennan who will teach us how to be 40% better! He was a kit who was introverted and had social anxiety.. so Bill built his own toolkit. As Bills tells his story... Friend: How'd you get that role? Me: Talking with strangers. Friend: What? Talking with strangers is a gateway skill. It enables you to talk with team-mates, stake…
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S5E12 - Martin McPhilimey: Take a Deep Breath
1:09:38
1:09:38
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Tim and Ben love breathing. Not just for the fact that it keeps them alive (although that is undoubtedly a strong benefit…) but also for the opportunity it gives to tap into the body’s autonomic nervous system and impact its emotional state. In this episode, they speak with Martin McPhilimey – someone who was researching the impacts of breath long …
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S5E11 – Dr Andrew Bengsen, Removing Ferals!
1:15:36
1:15:36
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1:15:36
Dr Andrew Bengsen talks to us this week about controlling ferals! Animals that is. Andrew has over 15 years’ experience in pest animal management or research and has been with the NSW Department of Primary Industries, Vertebrate Pest Research Unit for a decade. But also we discuss Andrew’s first career in the military- including serving in Rwanda o…
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S5E10 – Ruth Clare: Courage – and Confidence – through Action
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Ruth Clare, quite rightly, describes herself as a “multi-passionate human who doesn't fit neatly into a box!” Her formal credits include being a TEDx and motivational keynote speaker, award-winning author, embodied speaking coach, performer, mental health and child voice activist, as well as a qualified scientist with demonstrated expertise in auth…
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S5E9 – Adam Blum is No Easy Target
1:11:05
1:11:05
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CONTENT WARNING- This episode discusses mental health challenges and suicidal ideations as well as discussing the tragic death of a veteran. Adam Blum had a troubled start to life, plagued by health issues and enduring a debilitating series of surgical procedures. His school years were a torture. Experiencing health and weight issues and diagnosed …
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S5E8 – Riana Crehan ‘Suffers Well’; From Supercars to SAS Australia
1:03:59
1:03:59
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On Riana during SAS Australia: “She’s a brilliant human. No bullshit, no ego, she just knuckled down and suffered well on the show” - Dr Dan Pronk In this episode, Ben and Tim speak to television personality, SAS Australia candidate and all round superstar Riana Crehan- footnote that she is also a fellow West Coast Eagle supporter! Brought up on a …
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S5E7 – MAJGEN Justin “Jake” Ellwood DSC AM CSC – On Running (an Army Division, the Queensland Reconstruction Authority….and in general!)
1:15:35
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As a special Anzac Day release, please enjoy our chat with MAJGEN (ret’d) Jake Ellwood. Jake is currently the Chief Executive Officer of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority, a role which puts him at the forefront of reconstruction and resilience within the state, particularly in the face of relentless natural disasters. And he’s definitely the …
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S5E6 – Dr. Luana Main – The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of stress and (over)training
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This week’s guest is Dr Luana Main, a Senior Lecturer in Applied Sport Science at Deakin University. An athlete herself, Luana’s research focuses on optimizing human performance and, in particular, finding the sweet spot between optimal load and overtraining. She has applied this research in areas including elite sport and the military and talks wi…
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@RV31 - Reconciliation, Travel and Reflections on Guests
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Ben and Tim try to remember what an 'RV' actually is.... reconciliation and reflection, before we talk about our respective travel. From Morocco, Barcelona, Chicago, Brisbane, Hobart .... and more! Then reflections on Jaz Diab, Dr Rob Barbour, Ian Prior and the Festival of Veterans Art. Then as usual talking rubbish about the perfect Easter Egg, Po…
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S5E5 – Rachel Vickery “Don’t Fix Broken – Create Awesome”
1:27:33
1:27:33
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1:27:33
In this episode, Ben and Tim speak to Rachel Vickery. Rachel spent her formative years as a national level gymnast and Commonwealth Games representative for her native New Zealand before training as a respiratory physiotherapist. Drawing from this unique background, Rachel now works to help people increase their performance in domains ranging from …
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S5E4– Creativity Builds Resilience: Artists in Foxholes @fova.org.au
1:03:13
1:03:13
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Do you believe that being creativity builds resilience? Well this week we aim to convince you so get ready. In support of the the upcoming www.fova.org.au we outline how: when you engage in creative activities, you increase your brain’s capacity for creative thinking, pattern recognition, and developing visual-spatial skills. These skills enhance y…
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S5E3– Ian Prior: How Professional Athletes Stay In the Arena
1:36:24
1:36:24
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Ian Prior is MORE than just a professional rugby player with over a decade of ‘high speed collisions in confined spaces’. He’s incredibly well read and researched. He meditates and practices journaling. He uses ice baths and loves the beach. He’s about performance and optimisation, but uses that to improve his being a dedicated father and husband. …
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S5E2– Dr Rob Barbour: SAS Doctor Out of Africa
1:23:49
1:23:49
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Get a medical degree and then do SAS selection – as a Doctor!? Sounds mad. Well listen in. Born in Kenya, Dr Rob Barbour spent his formative years in Australia gaining a medical degree and serving in the Australian special forces including on peacekeeping missions.Having never lost his love for his birthplace, Rob migrated to Tanzania to start a so…
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S5E1B – Jaz Diab – Special Forces Nuclear Scientist, Nerd and Mum! Part B
56:51
56:51
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In this episode, we continue our chat with Jaz Diab, the multi-talented former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz reflects on her experiences as one of the first females in combat roles within Special Operations, before looking at her transition out of the military and subsequent focus on nuclear science.…
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S5E1A – Jaz Diab: Special Forces Nuclear Scientist, Nerd and Mum! Part A
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44:47
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In this special double episode, we talk with Jaz Diab – a mum, a self-described ‘nerd’ and crochet aficionado, who also happens to be a nuclear scientist and the former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz talks us through her childhood, getting bitten by the science bug and her eventual entry into the mili…
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@RV30 – The Season 5 Kick Off
1:06:13
1:06:13
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In this RV Ben and Tim discuss last year’s events, why they didn’t podcast last year, and where and what they have been up to. 01:00 Where have we been and why have we been off air? 01:50 Thanks to you and Vale Tim ‘Robbo’ Robertson- an inspiration to us 06:30 Tim runs The Wine Marathon 09:30 Ben talks running 14:00 Talking about 2023 travel destin…
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Season 5- We are (ALL) back on the cans
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The Externals are 'Back on the Cans' .... as is the Unforgiving60 podcast. This is Season 5. New guests. New material. Same buffoon hosts. #unforgiving60 #podcastDe către Ben Pronk, DSC & Tim Curtis
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Ben and Tim are back for Season 5 of the Unforgiving60 podcast..... some amazing new guests lined up as well as new format (albeit with the same old dudes). debrief@unforgiving60.comDe către Ben Pronk, DSC & Tim Curtis
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#10: Always a little further with Dr Dan Pronk, Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis
1:03:26
1:03:26
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Join us on an extraordinary journey with three Australian SAS veterans: Dr. Dan Pronk, Ben Pronk, and Tim Curtis. In this episode of "Always a little further," these remarkable individuals, who are also the authors of the book "The Resilience Shield," share their unique perspectives on overcoming adversity, shaped by their special operations experi…
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Special Episode- Vale Tim Robertson: Forever the Chronic Overachiever
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42:58
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42:58
This episode is a rerelease of our interview with Tim 'Robbo' Robertson. 'Robbo' was tragically killed in an aircraft accident in Queensland. Forever the professional. Forever the character. Forever the Chronic Overachiever. Forever in our memories. Vale Robbo. To where the Wandering Warriors roam. ***** Tim Robertson is an ex F18 fighter pilot who…
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#9 The best exercise for your heart is to help somebody else stand up with Roger Eichler
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46:02
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In this podcast episode called “The best exercise for your heart is to help somebody else stand up” I had the pleasure of chatting with Roger Eichler. Like so many others who joined the police force in the 80’s, Roger didn’t know what to do when he left school but felt a sese of wanting to serve the community and signed up to become a police office…
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#08: Behind the wire with Glenn Lang
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Glenn Lang is a Correctional Officer in the Department of Correctional Services within Northern Territory Department of Attorney General and Justice and previously worked as an Ambulance Officer and rural First Responder. I first met Glenn and his beautiful support dog Penny when he participated in my Life After Service Program. At the time I had n…
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@RV29 – Events and Reflections: The Year in Review
1:29:26
1:29:26
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In this RV Ben and Tim discuss the years events, trends and ‘best ofs’ now that the world has opened back up and life has returned to having velocity. From books, global change, travel, music ….. and what challenges have the boys set themselves for 2023. 01:30 What is an RV? 03:15 Let’s start with some stats 05:30 What is the 5th rated country by d…
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S4E21- Ben and Tim on the Golds Gym Podcast
1:09:10
1:09:10
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Ben and Tim are interviewed by Emily and Callum from Golds Gym. *********** The SAS guys with MBA's and Authors of the best-selling book 'The Resilience Shield' join us on the Gold's Gym podcast! Tim Curtis and Ben Pronk are leaders in their field and chat to us about all things resilience. You can also take their test to find out how resilient you…
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S4E20 – Senator David Van – Politics and Conflict, at home and abroad
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51:12
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51:12
Senator David Van is a Liberal Senator for Victoria, who was elected to the Senate in 2019. As part of this, and arguably as the main reason many Australians might recognise him, David has recently been very prominent in his support for the people of Ukraine. In this discussion, we speak with David about what this cause means to him and what the si…
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#07: “You’re more than your rank, you’re more than your uniform” with Mark Elm
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58:40
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58:40
In this episode “You’re more than your rank, you’re more than your uniform” Mark Elm, currently a Senior Emergency Manager with the New South Wales Government opens up about the realities of life in the job, his commitment and dedication to the service and tough experiences that impacted on him greatly. He is one of those people who have dedicated …
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S4E19 – Brad McIlroy: Beyond the Bali Bombing
1:19:43
1:19:43
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1:19:43
TRIGGER WARNING. This episode discusses the 2002 Bali Bombing and involves content that some might find disturbing. ‘Macca’ is a knock about Aussie guy who 20 years ago at 19 years old played some pretty sub amateur footy at Kingsley Football Club in Perth. In October 2002, they won the team's first premiership and 20 people flew to Bali for an end…
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S4E18 – Associate Professor Justine Gatt: Providing a COMPAS to navigate wellbeing and resilience
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50:19
Through their work with The Resilience Shield, Ben and Tim have become fascinated with the topic – and in particular, with evidence-based research related to it. A few months back, they saw an article talking about an Australian academic conducting a range of ground-breaking research into this exact topic and reached out to see if she would be inte…
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S4E17 – Life in Bloom: Sam and Cam Bloom on Life, Adversity, Growth and Love
1:20:37
1:20:37
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Our chat today is with world champion para-surfer Sam Bloom, and her husband Cam. Born on the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Sam had everything she had always dreamed of. She’d travelled extensively, fulfilled her childhood dream of becoming a nurse and was a happily married mother of three young boys. But without warning, the dream turned into a nigh…
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S4E16 – David Knoff Redux: 537 Days of Winter in 65 minutes of podcast!
1:04:15
1:04:15
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1:04:15
We first spoke to David way back in Season 3, when he was kind enough to dial in from Antarctica and talk about his experiences as an Australian Antarctic Division Station Leader. At the time of that episode, David’s team’s trip had already been extended due to COVID, however at that point, he didn’t realise just how long he would be on the ice for…
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S4E15 – Beau Miles. Our Famous Backyard Adventurer
1:05:06
1:05:06
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Beau Miles is an award winning filmmaker, PhD, a poly-jobist, speaker, writer and oddball. His YouTube Channel houses his movies which have been watched millions of times. One short film, ‘Running a marathon a mile at a time’ has been viewed over 4 millions times. It’s a bit better that our YouTube channel! We talk life and living. The importance o…
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S4E14 – Dr Michael Mumford: Pioneering Medical Marijuana
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49:27
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49:27
When many of us think about marijuana, our immediate thoughts are of illicit use. But across the world, this attitude is changing as researchers uncover the benefits of medicinal marijuana across a range of conditions. Progression within Australia has been relatively slow, however our guest this week aims to speed things up in this groundbreaking a…
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S4E13 – How to be Indistractable with Nir Eyal
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55:36
Let’s talk how to focus! Nir Eyal’s is an incredible thinker- describing himself as a ‘behavioural design expert’- which is the point of intersection between psychology, technology, and business. Then add some behavioural economics, and a twist of neuroscience. Our conversation in this episode ranges from how to be ‘indistractable’- the title of Ni…
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S4E12 - Mark Wales: Survivor Redux
1:08:29
1:08:29
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1:08:29
Mark Wales is one of our favourite guests – so much so that Ben can’t remember how many times he’s been on the show (turns out this is only the second). But each time has been a great conversation, and this is certainly no exception. Mark, fresh off his momentous half-million dollar Survivor: Blood and Water victory, joins Ben and Tim to talk all t…
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S4E11 – Cam & Sharn Watts: Foxhole Buddies In the Fight Against PTSD
1:33:11
1:33:11
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This is a very special episode of the Unforgiving 60 podcast. Over the years, we’ve spoken with a number of people who have suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder – and a number of people who are helping those who are suffering. But while a lot of the focus is – rightly – placed on the individual with this diagnosis, it’s rarely just that per…
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S4E10– Meet Liv Robinson v2.0- Beating Anorexia and Dominating Life through Art Therapy
1:03:14
1:03:14
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WARNING- This powerful and inspiring episode also discusses eating disorders and related mental health struggles. Liv Robinson’s first few decades of her life were a huge struggle. She found it hard to fit in to ‘normal life’. She battled with anorexia and related mental health illness which left Liv fighting for her life on a number of occasions. …
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S4E9–Cleared Hot! Shannon Huffman Polson on flying Apache Gunships, bagging big peaks and being a badass
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59:15
Shannon Polson was one of Americas first female gunship pilots. We talk flying and that incredible aircraft but also climbing, losing loved ones and grit and resilience. After a childhood in Alaska, Shannon studied English literature and art history at Duke University then commissioned into the Army to fly Apache helicopters, serving on three conti…
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S4E8– Olympian Melissa Wu is Diving Into Life!
1:04:08
1:04:08
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1:04:08
Melissa Wu is an Australian treasure- and of course Olympic, World and Commonwealth Games Diving medallist! Starting diving at 10, Melissa immediately fell in love with the sport… and here we are 20 years later. In 2008 she was the youngest Australian ever to win an Olympic medal in diving, and she is still medalling including in Tokyo 2020 Olympic…
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S4E7– Brian Firth – Breathing – you’re doing it wrong!
1:07:47
1:07:47
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1:07:47
Breathing is something most of us take for granted. But the more we’ve looked into it, the more there seems to be to this ostensibly simple practice. You don’t have to search far to find a wide range of advice on breathing – ranging from the obvious, to the counterintuitive, to the downright strange! In this week’s episode, Ben and Tim take a deep …
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#06: Finding your purpose after service with John Hardgrave
1:01:09
1:01:09
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In this episode “Finding your purpose after service” with John Hardgrave, John talks about the importance of upskilling yourself, considering your next steps well before transitioning from service and how to have the right support around you. John also speaks about the trauma people experience whilst serving in the Australian Defence Force, not exc…
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S4E6– Mick Neven is Fair Dinkum
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55:48
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55:48
The 3-way….. (or is it 3-peat?) with Mick Neven is here! Either way for the 3rd time Mick joins us on the podcast. The first we were combatting the Zombie Apocalypse; the second Mick was Melon Head, and this time Mick is Fair Dinkum. We talk about the show and presenting in comedy festivals. How comedy IS a team sport. And the differences between f…
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S4E5B– Kev Toonen – Training SpecOps, Sports Stars and Celebrities: Part B
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59:13
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59:13
In Ben and Tim’s book The Resilience Shield, they refer to Kev Toonen as a ‘superstar Army PTI (Physical Training Instructor)’ - and certainly when they first met him, that’s exactly what Kev was – a thought leader in the development of special operations physical capability, who helped evolved SAS training methodologies, as well as prepare the ama…
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S4E5A– Kev Toonen – Training SpecOps, Sports Stars and Celebrities: Part A
46:26
46:26
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46:26
In Ben and Tim’s book The Resilience Shield, they refer to Kev Toonen as a ‘superstar Army PTI (Physical Training Instructor)’ - and certainly when they first met him, that’s exactly what Kev was – a thought leader in the development of special operations physical capability, who helped evolved SAS training methodologies, as well as prepare the ama…
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S4E4 – Be All There to Enjoy the Moments of Magic with Psychologist Ali Hill
1:00:41
1:00:41
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1:00:41
For the second time Ben and Tim talk to psychologist Al Hill. The first time Ali interviewed Ben, Tim and Dr Dan Pronk…. And Ben and Tim nicked the audio! This time around they interview Ali on ‘Stand Out Lives’. Talking ‘working from anywhere’, psychological transition and what leaders need to be aware of in this brave new world! Also- what are yo…
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S4E3 – Dean Fechner: Sharing hard-won lessons on resilience
1:09:40
1:09:40
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1:09:40
Dean Fechner is a tough human. From a first career as an Air Force Physical Training Instructor, through subsequent work in law enforcement in places ranging from the Australian Parliament House to the battlefields of Southern Iraq, he has demonstrated an incredible amount of character and resilience. But his toughest challenge came not in uniform,…
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S4E2 – Tom Moore- How ‘WithYouWithMe’ is Disrupting Normal
1:02:07
1:02:07
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1:02:07
Tom Moore is the CEO of WithYouWithMe (WYWM) a social impact company, founded by Veterans – it was started with the sole mission of solving veteran underemployment. Indeed when transitioning from the military to civilian life, Tom struggled to gain meaningful employment. WYWM now includes neurodivergent, gender-diverse, military spouses, and Indige…
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S4E1 - Harry Garside: Fighting the good fight – inside and outside the ring
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54:19
Harry Garside is all about challenging stereotypes. So let’s start by challenging some of yours. What do you think of when you think ‘champion boxer’? Is it someone who dances ballet? Who paints their nails? Who augments their training with meditation, juggling and Schulte tables? If you answered no to these questions (or if you simply want to know…
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