The business of outdoor hosted by Aaron Lutze & Dylan Bowman
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Welcome to Second Nature, a podcast about living with ecological grief. Each week, Dr. Ashlee Cunsolo takes us on a deeply personal journey about planetary loss, and what we love, what we have lost, and how we move forward. Through a series of engaging, thought-provoking, and moving conversations with incredible guests from around the world, Second Nature is an invitation to come together to share stories of loss, love, despair, and joy, as we learn how to live with – and embrace – ecologica ...
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Join us each Friday morning for a new show on powerfully transforming your health, wellness & life! Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thesecondnatureshow/support
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Leading A Revolution In The Outdoor Industry
1:22:35
1:22:35
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1:22:35Jason Bolt has successfully built and sold companies in the outdoor industry, but more importantly, he's been a mentor to many well-known brands in the space. As the founder of Revant Optics, he shares his journey, complete with the ups and downs along the way. This conversation ends with a powerful call to action for the entire outdoor industry, o…
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Indigenous Climate Futures: From Grief to Growth with Dr. Deborah McGregor
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46:28Welcome back to Second Nature, Living with Ecological Grief. Host Ashlee Cunsolo and guest Dr. Deborah McGregor critique the technocratic focus in climate research, highlighting the underrepresentation of women, Indigenous, Black, and global South communities. They stress the importance of integrating Indigenous knowledge and holistic approaches ov…
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Let's Talk about Grief with Clarity and Compassion with Lisa Keefauver
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45:38In this episode of Second Nature, Living with Ecological Grief, host Ashlee Cunsolo and grief expert Lisa Keefauver delve into the multifaceted nature of grief and its cultural marginalization. Keefauver introduces her book, Grief is a Sneaky Bitch, a compassionate guide for those grieving. They discuss how grief, including ecological grief, is a m…
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The 5 Stages Of Partnership with AG1's Lisa Hassig
1:09:49
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1:09:49Lisa Hassig is the Global Brand + Sports Partnerships Director for AG1. While AG1 has partnered with some of the biggest athletes and creators on their partnerships, we took the conversation in a slightly different direction to share the lifecycle of a collaboration. There are five distinct phases to a solid partnership, and in today's episode, Lis…
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Hearing Ecological Loss: Insights from Soundscape Ecologist Dr. Bernie Krause
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48:00Welcome to Second Nature, Living with Ecological Grief. In today's episode, host Ashlee Cunsolo interviews Dr. Bernie Krause, a pioneer in soundscape ecology, about his 50-year journey documenting natural sounds. Comparing these soundscapes to the richness, diversity, and importance of the Library of Alexandria, Dr. Krause reveals a distressing dec…
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The Past, Present, and Future of Ciele
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1:03:49Daniel Marrett is the global Director of Marketing and Strategy at Ciele, and has been with the brand for nearly six years as they've gone through every iteration to arrive at this point. During the conversation, we learn the origin of the name, dig into the expansion beyond hats, and go deep on what it truly means to collaborate as a brand. Show N…
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Welcome to Second Nature, Living with Ecological Grief: A Podcast About What We Love, What We Lose, and How We Cope
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32:15In the first episode of Second Nature, Living with Ecological Grief, host Dr. Ashlee Cunsolo introduces her over 15-year journey of exploring ecological grief, climate change, and mental health. She shares a formative childhood experience with a destroyed beaver pond, highlighting her early, solitary struggles with ecological grief. Her involvement…
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Behind The Business: The Running Event and Switchback
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1:02:05Christina Henderson, the director of both The Running Event and Switchback, joins Second Nature to talk about the behind the scenes of two important events in the outdoor industry. As a 10-year veteran of TRE, she shares stories and details about the event - as well as the future of Switchback, a show that is focused on the outdoor industry (runnin…
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How To Build An Outdoor Business With A Full-Time Job
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1:08:11Sam Degenhard is the Founder and CEO of Campfire Ranch. Like most of us, Sam dreamed of one day launching a business in the outdoor industry. His approach to taking "the leap" involved graduate school, using the dedicated time to hone his concept and approach, preparing as best he could for the launch of the business. As things typically go, the un…
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A Closer Look At Arc'teryx's Footwear Development Process
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1:03:39Arc'teryx has officially launched a line of trail running footwear, created in collaboration with their athletes. Josh Herr and Kat Drew join the podcast to talk about the process of bringing Arc'teryx's new footwear to life, how they incorporated athlete feedback, and the future of product development in trail running. Arc'teryx: https://arcteryx.…
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Behind The Business of Endurance Events: Life Time Grand Prix
1:15:47
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1:15:47Two of the biggest events in the bike industry are the Life Time Grand Prix and Sea Otter Classic, and today's guest is Sarah Stutman, who has played a big role in both of them. We dive into mass participation events, where growth is happening in the endurance event space, and what the future looks like for mountain biking, gravel racing and trail …
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What We Would Do With Outside
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1:05:04After the recent discussion about Outside, we realized that we had more to say - and more appropriately, a more constructive discussion about how we would look at the situation and handle it if it were up to us. It's a back-and-forth about open versus closed content ecosystems - as well as a callback to a favorite Galaxy Brain idea that we've been …
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The Re-Startup: X-Bionic with CEO Max Lenk
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1:04:10Max Lenk joined X-Bionic three years ago as the established brand was transitioning into its next phase. Or as Max calls it: "the re-startup". Max and the X-Bionic team have brought meaningful evolution to the brand, most recently launching a footwear category with their Terraskin trail running shoes. Max Lenk: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximilia…
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Payson McElveen and the Cauldron of Content
1:11:59
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1:11:59Payson McElveen is a professional mountain biker, gravel racer and podcaster - host of With Pace (previously known as The Adventure Stache). During this discussion, Payson shares his approach to business as an athlete and podcaster, comparing notes on his journey as a media operator in the outdoor industry with Dylan and Aaron. Show Notes: Payson M…
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The Full Story Of The Run Experience
1:21:44
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1:21:44Nathan Helming co-founded The Run Experience during the early days of YouTube, when ideas like the creator economy - or even the monetization of content - were part of the equation. Nathan and his team built the channel, coaching, subscription and membership platform for nearly eight years before moving to an acquisition. In today's discussion, Nat…
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The Shifting Landscape Of The Outdoor Industry
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59:14Second Nature turns 1 year old on March 22, 2025 and a lot has happened in the outdoor industry during that time. Two specific topics came up this past week, and we wanted to take some time to discuss the impact on the industry: OnlyFans supporting athletes and Outside's latest news cycle. An interesting time for the outdoor industry, to say the le…
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The Underrated Skill Every Brand Needs
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1:02:10Jake Thomas is the wizard at one of the most important, but also most commonly overlooked skills in brand building. He writes the Creator Hooks newsletter and founded Creator Hooks Pro, a software service that helps brands and creators tackle impactful copywriting. His primary focus is YouTube titles - but that same skill set applies to all forms o…
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The Evolution Of Kate Courtney
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1:05:59Kate Courtney entered a new era when she launched her own race team to bring visibility to her foundation, She Sends. In this podcast, we dig into the previous eras that led up to this one - starting with her entry into the sport of mountain biking, her life-changing world championship win, and the behind the scenes effort that has gotten her to th…
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The Past, Present and Future of adidas Terrex
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1:03:07Elisa Schaller is the North American Director of Brand/Product of Outdoor at adidas. She has been with the brand through many iterations - both overseas and domestically - for over a decade. In addition to the brand story, we get a closer look behind-the-scenes of Terrex, her team, and her career. Show Notes: Elisa Schaller: https://www.linkedin.co…
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The Future Of TrailCon And The Outdoor Creator Economy
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1:05:46TrailCon is returning to Tahoe again this year, and with it, some big updates for the event's second year. First, a major partnership announcement, followed by insight and expectations for the two day event (including Dylan, Aaron and Steve's roles in it). TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/ Consumer Insights Pod with Steve: https://www.youtube.…
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The Single Phrase That Helps Brands Innovate
1:10:57
1:10:57
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1:10:57Steve Holmberg spent nearly two decades helping Nike stay competitive by driving innovation through market research and consumer insights. He believes every discussion for a brand should start with the consumer in mind, and shares not only his insights - but the single phrase that helped set up those conversations to drive the brand forward. He now…
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How The Outdoor Industry's Top Agent Is Redefining Partnerships
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1:05:30Jonathan Retseck founded RXR Sports to work with athletes, explorers and storytellers in outdoor brands. It didn't take long before RXR amassed what is arguably the dream team of athletes under management. Alex Honnold, Jimmy Chin, Rich Roll and many more are part of their stacked roster of talent. But the story goes well beyond the transactional n…
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The Strategy Behind The Best Brands Using Social Media
1:02:46
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1:02:46Darren Rayner, Founder and Head Of Creative at Magnafire, produces content for some of the biggest brands in the world. His agency has developed incredibly strong performing short form content for brands like Red Bull and Arc'teryx, helping them grow massively on platforms like Instagram and TikTok. In today's episode, we approach the content strat…
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The Growing Opportunity For Athletes And Brands
1:17:12
1:17:12
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1:17:12Patrick Crawford has had a legendary run in the outdoor industry - launching Freeskier magazine, followed by one of the original athlete social agencies, Inkwell. During his time leading Inkwell, he worked with the top outdoor athletes in the world - as well as the brands that supported them - to launch massive projects, the Free Solo film among ma…
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How I Burned Down My Business
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1:12:13Martina Brimmer founded Swift Industries 17 years ago in the basement of a punk house. Over those years, she held on to a rollercoaster of ups and downs as the business grew, adapted and survived to meet market demand. After the softening of the cycling industry post-pandemic, Martina had to make some big decisions for the survival of the business,…
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Playing The YouTube Long Game With Jeff Pelletier
1:19:35
1:19:35
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1:19:35Jeff Pelletier is an established filmmaker, content creator and successful agency owner - among many other things. He sits down with Aaron to compare notes on the YouTube journey and provides insights and actionable advice for other aspiring content creators looking to build a community. Show Notes: Jeff Pelletier: https://www.youtube.com/@JeffPell…
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The Past, Present, and Future of Wild Rye
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55:08Cassie Abel is the founder and CEO of Wild Rye, a brand that celebrates the duality of athletes with gear for both snow and mountain biking. In this podcast, we dive into the history of the brand as she launched with a co-founder, looked for signals that they were on the right track, and rode the exhausting rollercoaster of manufacturing, marketing…
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Exploring Media Business Models With Simon Freeman
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1:24:19Founder and publisher of Like The Wind magazine, Simon Freeman, joins the podcast to talk about media models and the different approaches that are available to explore for media operators. Show Notes: Like The Wind: https://www.likethewindmagazine.com/ Mario Fraioli: https://themorningshakeout.com/ Surfers Journal: https://www.surfersjournal.com/ J…
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What Business Are You Building?
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1:03:41Reflecting on the recent pod with the co-founders of Skratch, Dylan and Aaron take a closer look at their approach to running their own businesses. Leadership, profit versus impact, scaling versus staying small, funding and business models. Maybe most important - what time horizon are we using to make all these decisions - are we truly playing the …
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Why Skratch Is Not For Sale
1:06:51
1:06:51
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1:06:51Skratch won our award for "Brand Of The Year" in 2024, and the main reason was because we respected their approach to playing the infinite game: making decisions rooted in long term stability. So many brands in their position would angle for acquisition and an exit strategy, but that is not on their radar. The discipline and vision that it takes to…
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The Mindset We're Bringing Into 2025
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1:05:03Dylan and Aaron reconnect to share the different approaches they are taking toward success in the outdoor industry in 2025 - digging into goals, frameworks and vision (and then some). They also riff on the new team launched by Kate Courtney (She Sends Racing) and why it matters a lot more than just the typical factory sponsorship announcement. Show…
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Comparing Notes With A Competitor
1:09:58
1:09:58
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1:09:58Allison Lynch has the depth of experience that most marketers could only dream of having. As an early employee at Whoop, she had hands-on involvement in all the levers of marketing (and beyond). Athletes and content ended up becoming a big part of her role, which put her squarely in competition with Second Nature host, Aaron Lutze (who lead content…
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Christian Peper Is Making Dialed Creators
1:07:05
1:07:05
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1:07:05It's one thing to build a following around your own social media account, but an entirely different task to do it for a brand. Christian Peper has done both - and not only that, he's launching a bootcamp to help other creators follow in his footsteps. Last month, he shared Dialed Creator with the world, which we think is going to play a big role in…
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The Past, Present and Future of Corrine Malcolm
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1:13:02Corrine Malcolm has created her own path as an athlete, podcaster, livestream host, and coach. She joins the conversation on Second Nature this week on the cusp of the next evolution of her career is about to unfold. 2025 predictions, athlete and brand insights, and plenty more. Show Notes: Corrine Malcolm: https://www.instagram.com/corrinemalcolm/…
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Episode 69: Pit Viper & The Joke That Went Too Far
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53:58Spencer Harkins has been the VP of Brand at Pit Viper since 2017, and in this episode we get into all the stories of where the brand started, their clever strategy for coming up with ideas and campaigns, and how they are serious about taking things less seriously. We highly recommend that you check out this episode on the Second Nature YouTube chan…
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Launching An Outdoor Brand
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1:16:52Matt Sims comes from an incredible background of working with athletes and developing sports marketing programs at brands like Lululemon and Fox Racing. Over the past year, he's put everything he's learned into launching a new brand: courier. We dig into the insights and effort that went into putting the right team together, as well as what it took…
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Second Nature Outdoor Industry Awards
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1:06:58
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1:06:58We haven't figured out how to spell it yet, but at least we came through with the awards for our favorite brands, product, content and athletes. Dylan and Aaron share their favorites from the year, as well as a look at what's in store for the year ahead. Show Notes: Skratch Labs: https://www.skratchlabs.com/ Hoka: https://www.hoka.com/ Raide Resear…
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Red Bull And The Power Of Field Marketing
1:08:29
1:08:29
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1:08:29John Paradine was there on Day One of Red Bull, when the first can was officially sold in the USA. In this podcast, he shares stories about the way Red Bull established themselves in the USA - and the unorthodox ways they went about building the marketing organization (and their approach to ROI). Field Marketing was (and still is) a huge element in…
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2025 Outdoor Industry Predictions
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1:32:13What does the future hold for the outdoor industry? Matt Trappe and Steve Holmberg join Aaron on this week's podcast to share their predictions for the year ahead. Also included, hot takes and predictions from the community, and a bonus Galaxy Brain about the future of Second Nature. Show Notes: Matt Trappe (Linked In): https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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The Futurist Project: Outdoor Leadership Academy
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52:22The Futurist Project is an outdoor industry leadership academy that is currently accepting applications for their upcoming class. Thirty people who represent the future of the outdoor industry will be accepted to the sixth month program that includes in person, virtual and mentor-based training and support. On the podcast, Sablle Stahl and Vince Ma…
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The Business Of Athlete Sponsorships: Patrick Lemieux
1:14:01
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1:14:01Any elite athlete would tell you that it takes a village to support their ability to achieve their goals throughout the season. A big part of that support comes through partnerships, and in today's episode of Second Nature, we have a deep conversation about athlete partnerships with Patrick Lemieux. He's the person connecting the dots between athle…
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Zip Allen: Strava's Year In Sport
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56:05Chief Business Officer of Strava, Zip Allen, joins the podcast to talk about Strava's Year In Sport, how Strava approaches product design, and the future of the platform. We dive into the unique partnership approach that Strava pursues and how Zip's past work is informing the future of Strava. Show Notes: Zip on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/i…
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Speedland: What Happens Next?
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1:00:28Kevin Fallon and Dave Dombrow join Second Nature today to talk about the evolution of Speedland from the early days of starting up until now. They've passed through multiple inflection points on their journey to establish the brand, and this discussion digs into the topics of focus and discipline as they build both the brand and the business. Show …
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Behind The Most Viral Sports Videos
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1:02:38Stu Thomson, Founder/CEO of Cut Media, joins Second Nature to talk about the way his creative and production agency works with athletes, and how that flywheel opens doors for everyone to produce their best work. Cut Media has produced viral sports sensations like Danny MacAskill's Imaginate (94M views), The Ridge (80M views), F1 vs Drone (24M views…
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The Value of B2B Partnerships In The Outdoor Industry
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1:03:24Michael Peters, Director of Corporate Partnerships for KOA, joins the podcast this week to share his perspective and experience around B2B partnerships. We talk about value exchange, growth vs credibility partnerships, and the best way to do cold outreach for partnerships. Show Notes: Michael Peters: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-peters-30078…
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Mel Strong: From Nike to Next Ventures
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1:06:44From Nike to Next Ventures, Mel Strong has mentored talent from every end of the spectrum - leading giant teams at Nike in their women's, running and skateboarding divisions, and now investing in early stage startups through Next Ventures. We dig into her history at Nike, and how that informed and motivated a big shift to the world of venture capit…
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Decoding The Difference: Outdoor + Cycling Audiences
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1:01:05Doug Baker from Shift Active Media joins the podcast to share the research data from their most recent study. In this podcast, we talk about the overlaps and differences between audiences in the world of cycling and outdoor - as well as what brands should do with that information. Show Notes: Shift Active Media: https://www.shiftactivemedia.com Dou…
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Emergency Pod: The Running Event Recap
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58:28The Running Event in Austin, Texas just concluded, so we have event attendee and frequent contributor Steve Holmberg back on the podcast to break down all the insights and standouts at TRE. We also dive into the vibe of the event, some surprising brands, and what was potentially missing from this year's event. Show Notes: Insight Accelerator: https…
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How Zwift Is Investing In Women's Sports
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56:42Kate Veronneau joins Second Nature to talk about Zwift's partnership with the Tour de France Femmes Avec Zwift and the history of Zwift's involvement getting women on bikes and supporting athletes through programs like Zwift Academy. Show Notes: Kate Veronneau: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateveronneau/ Bicycling article about Kate: https://www.bic…
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Sports On Substack: Insights + Best Practices
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1:01:12We use Substack to power the Second Nature newsletter, and on today's podcast, we are joined by our man on the inside, Austin Tedesco. In this episode, he shares insights and best practices from the world of sports content creation (and beyond). Show Notes: Substack: http://www.substack.com Austin Tedesco: https://www.linkedin.com/in/austin-tedesco…
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