22. How Much Can You Afford TO LOSE When Buying an RV? @RVLove

A Travel Path Podcast

www.atravelpath.com

https://delicioats.com/discount/PATH Use Code PATH

Welcome back to the show Pathfinders and holy smokes, Marc and Julie from RVLove did not disappoint! This was an information packed, nearly hour long episode on all things RV. Whether you are a newbie or seasoned RVer, there is something here for everyone. Listen in as RVLove shares all about:

Buying an RV

Over the past 10 years, RVLove has been through all sorts of RVs, and they offer many, many tips on the buying process. Instead of asking “How much can you afford?” RVLove frames the question, “How much can you afford to lose?” RVs depreciate and they are expensive, so it is important to know how much everything can cost you. They offer specific tips on why you shouldn’t wrap your warranty into your loan, as well as the pros and cons of the many different types of RVs.

How Has the RV Life Changed You?

RVLove shares how they have become changed individuals after spending so much time traveling. The more things they see, the more perspective they have about the world, which results in more of an open mind.

How to Get the Right Information About RVing?

With so much clickbait and distractions available online, it is tough know whether you are getting the right information. You can watch 10 different videos and hear 10 different opinions on why you should or shouldn’t do something, so it can be overwhelming. While you don’t want to over-analyze, you definitely want to do your homework before you buy an RV. RVLove shares some tips on how you can verify the information you are receiving.

Remote Income

In order to make the most of full or part time travel, having a remote income source is key. RVLove shares their story on how they were able to achieve remote income positions at the beginning, before transitioning to their own business.

Learn about all this and much more in this episode of A Travel Path Podcast!

Chapters

· 00:00 Introduction

· 03:45 How Did You Get Started RVing?

· 09:15 Living Out of Two Suitcases

· 11:45 Downsizing and Letting Go

· 14:30 Delicioats

· 15:15 Pros and Cons of Different RVs

· 21:00 All 50 States in 3 Years

· 23:00 Biggest Challenge to Get on the Road

· 24:45 Buying a New or Used RV

· 38:00 How Much Someone Some One Save Up Before RVing Full Time?

· 41:45 Books by RV Love

· 44:00 How to Get the Right RV Information

· 48:45 What Is Your RV Type? Quiz

· 51:00 How Has the RV Lifestyle Changed You?

· 52:45 What Is the First Step Towards Full Time RVing?

RVLove on Social

· Website (take the quiz!): https://rvlove.com/

· Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rvlovetravel/

· YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Rvlove

· Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RVLoveTV

Books By RVLove

· Living the RV Life: https://rvlove.com/book/

· RV Hacks: https://rvlove.com/rv-hacks-book/

Blogs by RVLove

· Cost of Rving: https://rvlove.com/planning/cost-of-rving-full-time-vs-part-time/

eBook Chris and Cherie

· The Mobile Internet Handbook: https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/book/

Past Episodes

· #17 Phil and Stacy: https://atravelpath.com/show17/

· #6 Jim and Michelle: https://atravelpath.com/retired-full-time-rv-living/

RV Rental

· Outdoorsy: https://www.outdoorsy.com/

· RVshare: https://rvshare.com/

· Cruise America: https://www.cruiseamerica.com/

Music

• Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/abbynoise/rocky-mountains

Disclaimer

*All content from atravelpath.com, including but not limited to The Travel Path Podcast and social media platforms, is designed to share general information. We are not experts and the information is not designed to serve as legal, financial, or tax advice. Always do your own research and due diligence before making a decision.

Transcript:

Host: Marc and Julie, welcome to the Travel Path Podcast! Thank you for joining us.

Guest: Thanks for having us.

Host: Yeah, so we know you as RVLove. You guys sold your home in 2014 and have spent the past 10 years traveling full-time and part-time in a variety of different RVs. You're also bestselling authors with a focus on educating RVers. I just want to remind our audience to pay attention; I feel like there's going to be a lot of great information here. Also, I want to give a shout-out to Phil and Stacy from "Today is Sunday," who were on episode 17. I mentioned you guys were a huge influence on going full-time. Before we dive too deep, why don't you share a little about yourselves and then tell our audience what your current travel lifestyle looks like?

Guest: Alright, sure. Well, as you mentioned, we hit the road in 2014 to go full-time because we wanted more time together and had limited time off from work. We thought it would be a great way to go. I had some limited travel experience before that, doing some RVing with my family when I was growing up, but hadn't done any extensive RV travel. And Julie had not either. My family, when I—just for anyone listening—I'm originally Australian, but I've been in the States since '08, so I'm a citizen here now. But we met in Boulder, Colorado, in 2010, married in 2011.

Yeah, met in 2010 and then we hit the road. And actually, it was funny because we hit the road in 2014, and then for the next over six years, so we actually spent way more time those first eight years of our marriage and our life together in the RV than we did in a regular house. So that was unique as well—still living in a small space, yeah, and working—still married, still even working together. That's great. And then you asked what type of travel we're doing right now. So we were full-time travel from 2014 to 2020; we bought a home base in 2020 and started doing part-time travel. Um, but some years more than others, but this year, right now, I mean, we've been out every month for quite a few of the months. We've been six of the last seven months; we're out since early October. We've only spent one month at home. So we all have been out for I think seven months by the time we get back, so yeah, might as well be full-time travel, right? Well, with the current rig we're in, you totally—this.

Host: Yeah, yeah. So Mark, you had mentioned on your website that you worked a 40-hour-a-week job with very limited vacation time and you said RVing was a solution that made you feel like you had more time off. Can you elaborate on that and then how did you get started RVing?

Guest: Yeah, sure. Well, I wanted to have a remote job for a long, long time, and I was having trouble finding an employer that would do that. And so I just made it my mission to find an employer that would allow remote work. And once I did that, it was only about three months that went by before I realized, well, I never go to an office, they don't really know where I'm at, so we could be anywhere. And that's when it started opening the idea of doing some more travel. Julie and I did some vision boarding and visualizing what we wanted out of our life, and a lot of it revolved around travel, not possessions. And so that's when we decided to make travel a bigger priority and started doing a lot more research. And in about nine months of heavy, extensive research is when we bought an RV, sold the house, and launched on the road. I had a full-time job at the time that was remote, that was paying all the bills for that, and that allowed that freedom and that remote lifestyle. And I actually didn't tell many people at all at my work that I was going to be doing that because I felt confident that I'd have internet connectivity if we made it a high enough priority and that the longer I went without telling anybody, as long as I didn't have any hiccups, then I would have lots of evidence to say, "Hey, it's totally how long?" Oh, you just—you noticed I'm traveling? How long? Oh, the last two days. Well, I've been doing it for four months. So that was a really great way to come back and say, "This is totally doable; you had no idea I'm doing this for all this time." And I even later went to Australia and didn't tell anybody either. Wouldn't recommend that; the time zone—time hurts; it crushes you.

Yeah, but Marc was uh doing remote work before CO made it cool.

Host: Yep, funny. Yeah, Australia—you might be showing up a little bit late to work or early depending on what the time difference over there is—brutal.

Guest: You would—yeah, to work my 8-to-5 job, I had to work midnight to 9 a.m., and he's not a—not a—and I'm not a night person, and so it was actually really tough because we were also visiting friends and family in Australia. We'd spend a lot of time with them during the day, so I'd work midnight to 9 a.m., have a couple-hour nap, go hang out with friends and family, have a couple-hour nap, and then go back to work. I never got big chunks of time to sleep for a month, and by the end of the month, we would both be delirious. We were literally—wouldn't recommend doing that very often. Just take the time off and just have a vacation; that's our recommendation.

Host: Yeah, it is hard to balance, especially if you're traveling that far to balance working full-time with travel and getting those experiences in. So that's probably one of the first lessons you learned was to just separate those a little bit.

Guest: Yeah, even domestic travel, the time zones are still a factor, you know. If you have a job that has specific hours and not an asymmetrical or asynchronous job, you know, when you're on the Pacific coast, it's amazing in the summer because you can be off work at 2 or 3 in the afternoon, the sun doesn't go down till 9, you have this whole evening—it's almost like every day is two days. But when you're on the East Coast, unless you'd have to either try and get some stuff done before work or your evenings are short, so lots of modifications.

Host: Yeah, so over about 9 months of really planning this, you know, putting a lot of thought into it, considering all the options, doing the vision boards, and really looking into travel over possessions. That's a classic example—doing four months without telling your employer that you're going remote. That's the example of not asking for permission, asking for forgiveness.

Guest: Yes, exactly, exactly. And, you know, it—it worked for us. We just—we wanted to spend more time together, we wanted to spend more time with our dog, and, you know, that was RVing is the best way to do that. We—we really wanted to do some international travel, but as long as we had her, it just wasn't really feasible. So we—and we love to drive, we love road trips, we love driving. So, uh, we had a couple of spirited vehicles in the garage. So that's why we, uh, you know, looking for ways that we could go and do more road trips and try some of these most beautiful roads and scenic byways and highways in North America.

Yeah, and that's actually part of why we chose the RV we did to start with, is because we had a WRX and a Mazda Miata in the garage, so we loved—yeah, so we loved these sporty cars. And so we decided to sell both of those and then buy a less expensive Mini Cooper Convertible, um, so that we could just have a car we didn't care about as much to tow behind the RV. And then, uh, and had a backseat for the dog.

Yeah, but it was really great to go do the exploring, and it was especially fun to switch from the big lumbering class A motorhome to this fun, nimble light sports car.

Host: Yeah, you don't want to put too many dents or dings in the WRX when you're driving up those rough rocky roads out west.

Guest: Well, that was one of the things. I think our cars were—you know, they were not new but newer and nicer and had a payment on them both, and we're just like, we didn't know how they're going to get impacted being dragged around the country, and, uh, by consolidating and getting rid of those payments too, made a huge difference.

But yeah, that Mini—we really had a bit of a rough adventure sometimes; we broke it boondocking, but it was a great car.

Host: So, I know, Julie, you have a pretty interesting story as well, how this whole thing started out. So you moved to Boulder, Colorado, from Australia with just two suitcases after selling everything. Can you talk about some of the events that led to that, and then what did that experience teach you about how much stuff you actually needed?

Guest: Say very succinctly, as my business blew up in 2008, like so many people when the economy imploded, so did my business. And I laugh about it now, but it was actually a really traumatic time in my life; it was very difficult. I know anyone that went through that, I empathize; it was a tough time. And I needed to start my life over, and I'm like, well, and I was single at the time. And so I'm like, well, if I'm going to start over, am I going to do it here in Sydney? And if anyone's been to Sydney, it's a beautiful city, but it's a big city; it's a fast-paced, one of the big expensive cities of the world. And I'm like, I just don't know if I want to do that again here; just the thought of it was very exhausting, actually. I think I was just burned out and needed a reset. And honestly, I was so broke I couldn't even afford to move out of my apartment, to be honest. I just—I couldn't even afford to send the car back to the lease company; I couldn't afford to do any of that because they wanted a big balloon payment. What am I going to do? So I sublet my apartment and I sublet my car, and then I just put, you know, my stuff in two suitcases and used frequent flyer miles to get over to Colorado. And I'd been at a conference six months earlier and I'd met some people, and somebody had a friend of a friend that had an apartment available for sublet. So I was able to be very creative and live for three months in—I think I lived three months rent-free in three months in Boulder for the amount of time I rented my apartment in Sydney for six weeks or something; it was something like that. I had to get very creative. And, um, so yeah, but it—it just made me realize that you really don't need that much stuff. And it's actually shocking to me when Marc and I met and married a few years later after—you know, back and forth, Australia, I eventually got a job, got sponsored, and then we met, got married, and had the townhome. And I'm like, how the heck am I downsizing when I moved here from the other side of the world with two suitcases? How did I end up with stuff again? Obviously, not as much stuff as I used to have from accumulating it over my life, but still, even periodically in the RV, we still go through and declutter and downsize and get rid of stuff. You just have to; it's human nature, I think, just to accumulate even little things. It just—I don't know what it is; it's an illness.

Host: It is, yeah. I think I mean, part of it, we've heard that's been like the biggest, one of the biggest challenges so far, especially dealing with people who are going full-time, is just downsizing and getting rid of, you know, half, more than half, of the stuff that you own. Um, we've got a lot of content where we discussed, you know, not just the physical struggle, but the emotional struggle with that as well, because you're letting go of, you know, things that are—you're letting go of things that are important to you because, you know, you have to just make that choice, right?

Guest: You have memories associated with those things, memories and people, and especially if people have departed, that's very hard to think about. You hear about a lot of people having trouble giving up the furniture that their parents or their grandparents had, and they're holding it for their kids. But if you can have that conversation with the kids now, I don't know about you guys, if you'd be wanting your grandma's furniture, probably not, even if it was top-of-the-line, expensive, fancy stuff back in the day, probably not your style. And so often, people can be holding onto that and paying to store it only to find that, well, they didn't want it anyway. So you've got to get practical too.

Host: The two tips we've learned so far, I'll just sum that up really quickly, was Jim and Michelle had mentioned that they didn't want to leave the burden to their children because ultimately, you know, they're going to pass at some point, and their children are going to have all this stuff. They just figured they'd get rid of it for them before, you know, their children inherited it. And then Phil and Stacy had mentioned that those things that they have a strong emotional attachment, just take a picture of them. You can create a photo book online; you can always reference them. But the memories, you know, you can look at and go back to that place.

Guest: And you could even take that up a notch and just put your iPhone on a tripod and do a little video and just film yourself having the item and telling a story, and just say, "Oh, this was given to me by my Aunt Mary, and this is what it meant to me," or this, and then actually have a story, and it's like watching your own little home movie, you know? So that's how easy to do these days is just hit play and uh, just have a conversation with it about.

Host: Uh, 2014. We've probably come a long way with the technology and everything. Um, you talked about how you had transitioned your cars, right? You—you had switched to the Mini Cooper. Did you say it wasn't Mini Cooper?

Guest: Mini Cooper S convertible, yep, yep, it was.

Host: You switched to the Mini Cooper, um, but you also had mentioned that you've gone from five different RVs in your past 10 years of traveling so far, uh, motorized, towable, large, small, you name it. What are some of the pros and cons of each that you've discovered and um, what were some of the factors that influenced you to replace what you already had?

Host: Hey, guys, I wanted to take a quick break to tell you about Delicia Oats. We've been enjoying Delicia Oats for many years, and they have helped fuel us for those extra-long hikes. They are flavored oats that come in a pouch and are very easy to set up. Just add water, give it a shake, and let it sit overnight and enjoy the next morning. Or you can add boiling water if you like them served hot. We've also added them to our morning smoothie, or I'll sprinkle some into my yogurt for some extra flavor and to help fill me up. You can make them in less than a minute, and there is no cleanup, which is huge for us on the road. Now, if you're like me, the first question you'll ask is how much added sugar is there, and here's a big one for me—no added sugar. They come in a variety of flavors; my personal favorite is cherry chocolate. Enjoy them for yourself by placing an order at DeliciaOats.com and use the coupon code "PATH" at checkout. That's DeliciaOats.com, D-E-L-I-C-I-A-O-A-T-S.com, and use the coupon code "PATH."

Guest: Yeah, well, most all of our full-time travel was in a class A motorhome, the Big Bus type motorhomes towing a car. Um, part of it was the Mini Cooper, and then we switched to a Jeep so that it'd be easier to tow. But I want to jump in just there before you go into the details. For the first— it sounds like we've had a lot of RVs. It sounds like we change on average every two years, but for the first six and a quarter years, we only had two RVs. But it's been since we've gone part-time that we've been we switched a lot more when we went to part-time. Um, and the main reason we switched from the first coach to the second coach was cargo carry capacity because the first one was just inadequate for that and it was a little unsafe. Um, and then so we went to a diesel with much higher capacities. But we've actually—we have enormous experience, and we love learning from everyone else we meet in all of our travels. We did a lot of research ourselves, but then we also continually research with everyone else. And now we also wanted to have the other experiences to share with people. And so now we've traveled in 17-foot travel trailers and 45-foot classes and everything in between because we have owned five, but we've also rented or borrowed a lot of the other types too. Um, and really, the type of RV you have depends on the RV travel style you want to enjoy. You know, a couple years, we had a smaller Class C, which was a very nimble and faster-paced travel. Um, and now we have a truck and fifth wheel, which is a slower-paced travel but really homey, and we really enjoy that. This is the fifth wheel we've got here we're in, and it's so—they all have their own reasons and your own seasons for why you change them. Part of the reason we resisted having a fifth wheel for a long time is Julie is not very tall, and so a lot of fifth wheels, the cabinets are very hard to reach, so that's a challenge. But I didn't want to get into a big truck, and Julie didn't want to drive a big truck, but now she actually has quite a bit of comfort around that, and so she does drive the big truck. And then we've got an RV that has a big pantry that has low-level storage for easy access for her. So, but again, a lot of it depends on your travel style and pace is a big part of why you choose different ones and just different seasons of RV life. So when we first started out, we were just, I think, like most people that hit the road, you were like, "I want to see everything. I want to go to Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon and all the top things on the bucket list, right? I want to go to all the national parks. I want to visit all 50 states, 48 with the RV. We have not driven to Alaska. I know many people have, but that's such a—and we didn't drive to Hawaii, which most people don't either; we flew to Hawaii. And actually, we did the 48 states, funnily enough. We love to share that we did all 48, the lower 48, in three years, a little over three years, while working full-time. And I think when you really think about that, like, this is such a big, vast country. And for anyone—I don't know how good geography is, but the size of the United States is the same size as Australia, geographically very similar. But there's nothing to really see in the middle except the Outback, and it's very hot. But in the US, there is so much you can see in every single state. And it's shocking, actually, when you think what a big country it is. And let's not forget Canada too; we love Canada. We should say North America, not just the US. But that—you know, even though it's so big, it's shocking how much you can really see if you're focused and you plan it in a relatively short period of time, because we saw all of the 50 states before age 15, which is pretty cool. I mean, a lot of people will never do that in their life, and that's something we feel really grateful and really blessed to have been able to do that at an age where we're still young and fit and healthy enough to get out there and do the hikes and, you know, get out there and not just do the little 500-meter loop, take a few photos, and get back in your vehicle, which some people do, but to really get out and, you know, bike and hike and do everything. So, I think, just that season of life, so we were going at a pretty fast pace that first few years, but we still stayed, we tried to stay for a couple of weeks at a time. And then we switched to the second rig, very similar kind of a travel pace, but we'd already seen all 50 states with our first rig, so then we changed gears where we're less about just going and exploring everything, and we would've been more time just really working in the RV and renovating the RV; we renovated that older one. And then a lot of the places we're going to now, we're going back to. There are less places that we're going to for the first time. So, for example, we're here in Tucson right now. We've been here before; we love Tucson, but we haven't gone out and done a ton because we had poor internet in Mesa in the Phoenix area, and we didn't get as much work done, and we had a lot of social time with friends. So now we're here, we're kind of playing catch-up.

Host: Right, so you know, adjusting our schedule like that, but the different kinds of RVs just fit the season of your life.

Guest: Sure, yeah.

Host: Um, you guys are speaking our language. That's actually one of Hope's goals, is doing the 50 States before we turn 50. Of course, she turns 50, which we're on track to do. So, and um, the same thing, that's the reason we took our trip. You talked about wanting to do those longer hikes while you're young and you still can. That's the reason why we did this young while we're continuing to do it so that we can take those longer hikes and the scenic things and do that at a younger age while we still have our knees, right? Um, so 3 years, all 48 states, was that looking back on that, was that too fast or was that the perfect pace, do you think?

Guest: Probably a little fast, especially working full—you know, you try to tell people to slow down, they're not going to, they're going to do it anyway, so just, you'll figure it out. But I will say, if you—Marc is very disciplined with his work schedule, we don't have kids, okay? So, if you have kids and you're trying to do a job, you know, travel, set up your RV, pack it down, road school the kids, all of these things, they just take more time and so you need to allow for that. But, yeah, well, you know, in the Northeast where you guys are from, you can knock out a lot of states quick because they're a lot smaller, but out west, in a weekend—

Host: Yeah, they're a lot bigger.

Guest: Yeah, Rhode Island, if you blink, you miss it, it's only 20 miles driving across it, right? So, it's quick, yeah. You drive four hours, you're in—yeah, four different states out west, you're still in the same state driving the same day, exciting when you have that state sticker map and you just go through and subtly your numbers go away—

Yeah, but that's one of the funny things about a goal of hitting all 50 states, is like, you're in Texas, you're going to Colorado, but you decide to go through all these Midwestern states in this big arc because you want to make sure you get to these other states on your way, do that. We've done that, we do that.

Host: Our rule is we have to do something cool in that state, like it's fun, we have to have an experience in every state, memorize every state on the East except Delaware, we've driven through Delaware a thousand times but haven't stopped there, so we have to actually stop there one day and do something cool. So, if anyone's listening for something cool in Delaware, let us know, at least stop.

Guest: Yeah, everyone's got their own rules—nwe have to have a memorable experience. Some people have to visit the state capital, some people have to spend multiple nights and like that, everyone has their own rules of what they qualify, but you, that's your rules, so you can do them however you want.

Host: So, going back to when you guys first started out, obviously, just mentioned it took about nine months to get there, a lot of work was involved in that, just planning, processing everything, um, what was the biggest challenge you faced in getting on the road? It doesn't sound like it was talking to your boss about going remote because he didn't do that, but what was the biggest challenge you had to overcome to get there?

Guest: You know, I think when we first started out, we spent a lot of time researching online, YouTube, and um, we found a great ebook, actually. Our first question was not about the RV but was around the internet because if we can't get solid internet to work from the road, there's no point in setting foot on a dealer lot, starting our RV shopping because it's not going to happen.

Yeah, in 2013, that was a lot more challenging than it is now. And we found an ebook by Chris and Sherie from Mobile Internet Resource Center. I'm sure you've heard of them or most of your listeners have. And I mean, they are—they are the reason, I think, a great many of us are being today because they are the gurus on all things mobile internet and connectivity. And so, we read their ebook, and it was just like, "Oh, we can do this." Because we're thinking, "Do we need to get satellite and all kinds of things?" But no, cellular, you can do it with that. And sure enough, we've just followed their lead, you know, the whole way. And we changed our plans and set up a few times along the way, not often, but often enough to just revisit it every couple of years and make sure it's still optimal set up for us. And so, that was a great resource, and we just devoured, you know, YouTube videos and blogs. We didn't read any books, there weren't any, except for that ebook. But I think, I think back then, what do you think was the biggest challenge? Was trying to figure out which RV we really wanted. We—we thought we wanted new until I remember we were at Camping World on a Sunday, and the sales department was closed, and we were looking at the accessories, the store was open, and some guy who worked in service came by and he said, "Are you planning on buying an RV?" We said, "Yeah." He said, "Whatever you do, don't buy new."

Host: Wow.

Guest: Planning on buying new, you know, when you're new, when you're new, you don't know. You assume it's like buying a new car, I'll buy new, I'm going to get the warranty and everything's going to be great. Well, the more you learn about RVing, the more you realize, no, it's not that way, your first RV is going to teach you the most and is going to depreciate hard and you're going to lose money. And so, I actually have a thing I want to start saying to people instead of saying, "Well, how much does an RV cost?" or "How much can you afford?" I would turn it around and say, "Well, how much can you afford to lose?" That's the question. I'm not saying that to be mean, just so much as it is going to cost you money. This is, for most people, unless it is your only viable option for housing, which is the case for some people, but many of us are out there living this by choice, and we're, you know, privileged, really, to do that. But you don't want to financially disadvantage yourself too much. And so, your first RV will teach you the most, so spend as little as you can to get something that's going to do what you want and needed to do. And then, once you learn more, then your next RV, you can look at. I know going to be a lot of people probably disagreeing with me in the comments, and that's that's just fine, that's just my opinion after 10 years and five rigs, and you do you, but you know, that's what, if that would be back then, I would have spent less than what we did on our first setup. I think we could have had just the same great experience. Um, it was a good rig, but I don't think we needed to spend that much. No. So, start with something that doesn't have everything you quite need because chances are, at some point, you're going to want to upgrade anyway, so might as well not spend a ton of money on your first. A lot of ours change within the first year or two, some, some transfer in less, switch in less than a year because they realized they made a mistake. We see a lot of people get forced off the road pretty early on because they've picked a dud rig or they just got unlucky or they—it was costing them more, it was costing a lot more than when we started. When we started 10 years ago, the cost of RVing is much higher now, not gas, surprisingly. I know we had that period where gas went high. When we started, it was like $3.50 something a gallon, we saw over $4 a gallon in our first year, and now we're seeing it again around $3.30 a gallon, but we've seen it in the sixes, and so, a lot, so, especially

Host: seven, seven was our highest, 7.40 in California, but yeah, it's tough to prepare for how much you're going to be spending on fuel.

Guest: Fuel is one of those expenses that you can modify, and you've got a van, so that's got better fuel economy than most.

Host: Yeah.

Guest: Yeah, but slowing down the pace, slow the reduced spend on fuel, and in fact, I was just, you know, we just, I was just doing a little recap on the last three years of our winter travel, you know, this year, we're in Arizona, last year, California, year before, we went to Florida, but also to California, um, and just looking at the fuel expense, you know, the first Florida trip, we spent $700 a month on fuel, and then last year, we were spending like five, and then this year, um, under, it's only three. And so, part of it's slower pace, but part of it's also, you know, just fewer mileage, you just change your travel plans, if it's a big part of your budget, don't go as far and don't—and stay longer. But I would say if people—if—if the cost of fuel is freaking people out, just don't buy an RV, that's my answer, just don't get one, because you never know what's going to change. I mean, you could wait for gas prices to go down, but they go up and down, I don't care who is president, they go up and they go down, and people just like to distract and blame, and that's something that is out of your control, so you're going to let it control you and your travels, and just like, you know what, maybe go out for dinner one less time a month and make a meal at home and what you save, you put it in the tank. I mean, it's your choice, if you're going to freak out and just whine about gas prices all the time, just go and drive your hybrid vehicle and stay in an Airbnb, then you won't have to fix it you don't have to worry about depreciation, that's a whole other episode, but really, I mean, I'm very direct about these things now, people may not like it, but also do your research, like one of the guys I met once that was the most ridiculous was he had—he had four different RVs in six months, he bought a Class C RV, didn't like it, bought a Class A gas, didn't like it, bought a Class A diesel, didn't like it, bought a Prevost bus conversion, you know, a half million dollar coach, finally was satisfied with that, but he obviously had more dollars than cents because he was just spending like crazy. If he would have just done a little more research, maybe gone on a test drive or something before just buying him, he could have saved himself a lot of hassle, a lot of money, and just ended up—it was a $700,000 rig, he ended up with a used $700,000, but you know they, you know, probably a couple of million years, yeah, do your research, but yeah, and rent. We say rent an RV, full disclosure, we did not rent, you know, not saying we advise people against it, it's a good idea to rent and be sure that this is something you really want to do. Now, the one that you rent, you can through companies like RVshare, for example, you can rent from companies, from individuals, rather, so you can do the—the ones with all the branding on the side from Roadbear and Cruise America, all of that that have the dog sticker looking out the window, but or you can get one that just looks like a regular normal RV owned by private, uh, people that just want to make a bit of money to help offset the cost of ownership. And that feels to me more like the kind of a—you can rent an RV, even the same brand, make, model, and size that you're even thinking you might like to buy, and rent that first, and it seems expensive, I think people look at that and think, "Wow, it's so expensive." Well, they don't realize is old—no, what is expensive is if you make a poor choice buying, and you have to get out of that, you're going to spend a lot more than you're going to think, "Wow, that RV rental would have been cheaper in it." I think, case in point, is our friend that we bought the Class C from, was a 25-foot Mercedes Sprinter little Winnebago navon, and he's 6'2" and he full-timed in that for a few years, and then he—he then he had it in storage and we rented it from him, then we bought it from him, and he was going to buy a Class B van, like, "I want a van, I want a van," and then he rented one for a weekend and realized this is—I'm too tall and if I want a friend to come and hang out and visit, this is not going to work. So, that's why he went from a B to a C, and so just renting it, renting it for a week, and saved him on making an expensive mistake, and probably the B would have been more expensive than the C too. So, that was a good move for him.

Host: Yeah, being tall, I'm 6'4", being tall in a class B van, it really limits the floor plan you can choose. Um, since you guys started in 2014, obviously the landscape and just the world has changed quite a bit. Is there anything you would do differently now starting out?

Guest: Well, I already said one, I wouldn't have spent as much on our first coach. I loved our first coach, it was beautiful, it worked great for us, except for the weight. We didn't understand, now that's not true, we didn't—it's not that we didn't understand about the—it was very difficult to find out the information that we needed to make that decision. And we're so happy that there's so much more information out there now that people, like, for example, how much does your stuff weigh? How much does your, you know, your food and your clothes and your work equipment and the stuff you want to take with you, how much does that weigh? And I don't know if maybe some people here have gone and literally weighed their stuff before, but we didn't. I actually intended to, we didn't. I intended to, but part of the transition was we bought the RV and then we set it up out behind our townhome, and I was working in there, and I brought the dog to transition so it would make an easier transition to actually hit the road. Meanwhile, Julie's just bringing stuff out from the house, and I remember her vividly saying, "It just keeps taking it," like it had tons of storage space. You're supposed to, because a lot of people think, "Oh, there's lots of storage space, it must have storage capacity," but it doesn't. Those are not the same thing, and so that's important. And so we found—and we did a video on this—and I think this one of the videos that I'm really, you know, proud of. Not that it was anything fancy or special, but it just, I think, shared a lot of information that wasn't out there at the time, and now we hear a lot of others talking about weight and being really mindful of their weight more, and that never used to be the case. I'm really happy to hear and see that so many people are mindful of that now because there's so much more awareness. So, I think the weight thing is a big issue. Do not trust the salesman to say, "Oh, yeah, your truck can tow that," or, "Yeah, it can." No, they're there to sell you something, do your own research, and don't just copy—don't just copy what someone else is doing. "Oh, I like that couple, they've got this setup, I'm just going to get what they got." Well, it may not be right for you. You know, like really ask yourself those big questions about what's important. We met a lot of people, remember the first trip to Tahoe, we met that couple that had been full-timing for 18 years, what did we do?

Yeah, they've been—they've been full-timing for 18 years, our first RVing for 18 years, and then Julie asks them, "This is our first weekend, Julie asks them, 'So, what advice do you have for us as new RVers?'" Like, "Well, it's too late for that. I would have told you to get an RV with a washer and dryer." I'm like, "Really? That's your only advice?" That was, and then the conversation ended. I'm like, "So, 10 years we've never had a washer and dryer or any of our RVs, and we don't miss that. It's not something high value to us, we'd rather have the storage space for the extra clothes and then do laundry less frequently than have an actual washer dryer in the machine." So, yeah, it's different, everyone random answers to a lot of your questions.

Host: But it would just kind I feel like. I'm an optimistic person, but for some reason when it comes to appliances, I feel very—I'm very pessimistic about putting a washer under, I just feel like it's asking for problems. I don't know, I don't know how common they are, but most St to go wrong.

Guest: Yeah, we often say, you know, try and choose a less complex RV, less options, because there's less things to go wrong, the more simple the RV, the less things can go wrong, because RVs have a lot of maintenance. There's a lot of cost related to—we have a lot of blog posts on our website RVlove.com with things about costs of RVing, and I think that kind of thing is really important to share so people go in with eyes wide open. So, just make sure you reduce your debt as much as you can, reduce your expenses, make sure you have some padding because there's going to be unexpected expenses, and so plan ahead, be comfortable with what you're going into, at least if you're going full-time, you're trading, you know, one expense for another, but if you're trying to do both with having a home base and renting, just doing extended RV travel, then that can get expensive. And that is part of the reason why we have actually had three rigs in the last three years as part-timers because, you know what, we found like we—we had that little Casita, it was a little fiberglass, and we and we wanted something we could tow with our Jeep. We love our Jeep, we didn't want to change that, and we wanted something that would fit in our carport, so we had really limited parameters, and we wanted something quality, and so that ticked all the boxes, but it's so small, and they're cute and lovely, and we got lots of compliments in the parking lots when we would go to the store, but we're the kind of people that, we're not just using it as a base camp to go hiking all the time, we come back and we do work, and so we need more space. And so, it just was ultimately too small for us, especially once we got the dog and another dog, he's around here somewhere, and then that—we had that about 16 months, and then we rented our friend's Class C and ended up buying that, and that was good, and we went on a longer trip, that was much more comfortable for our longer four or four and a half month trip to Florida, and then we came home, and because we love where we live so much in Colorado, we actually love being there in the summer and the fall. So, the RV was hardly getting used, it was sitting out there. It's a motorized, it needs to be used and driven, so it was just heartbreaking to see it out there not getting used as much as we—you would hope, and then you, you do the math on it, like, this is a mortgage payment, I have a mortgage payment sitting out there depreciating every month, and so, you know, we're not independently wealthy and retired, we're still trying to, you know, get to that point where we—we can retire someday, and so it became a financial decision where it just wasn't the amount of money that was in it was just not worth it. And then we changed this, which is a truck that Marc can use around town and around home, you wanted that anyway, he does a few little handyman market construction jobs here and there, and then, uh, this fifth wheel that we ended up buying from a friend, it's used, it was two years old, but it's great, and we're—we're in the whole setup for half of the cost of what the—uh, the Mercedes was, the—it's on Mercedes chassis, which is very expensive, those little Class C's on the Mercedes chassis, the service and everything, they—they—they go really well when you take care of them, nothing tends to go wrong in between the services, but it's some sticker shot when they do go wrong.

Host: Yeah, that sounds like kind of a long story short. Over time, your needs, your lifestyles, are going to change, as well as the RV type that you're going to be driving. You had mentioned having some sort of cushion or padding, some savings allocated in case things go wrong. Do you have a number on how much you should have saved up when you're traveling full-time?

Guest: I don't think necessarily so much as probably a number of months. I mean, you're talking just for RV-related or just in general? Because anyone out there that you're learning from, say, doing financial investing, would say you should have six months' worth of savings just in case you lose your job or if something happens.

Host: I guess that's, yeah, the six months is a good rule of thumb, I guess. So RV-related, people don't have that.

Guest: A lot of people, especially if people are doing the full-time RV life, because they're trying to do big savings, and because that's an opportunity, you can do it where you spend significantly less than other styles of life. But especially if that's your goal and your priority because you just don't travel as far and you don't travel as fast, and that's a great way to save money if you're staying in campgrounds a month at a time instead of moving every week. And do your research to know how to do it inexpensively, like Julie and I have been out on this trip for a hundred days, and we've spent next to nothing on our campground stays because we have a campground membership that we've been staying in membership campgrounds with no nightly fee almost the entire trip. And so we spent some money on fuel but not that much. And so if you're in the Southwest, yeah, or if people Boondock, but how you want to travel can make a massive difference in what you save. And so I think percentage-wise, I just wanted to say people should have some cushion. Don't just go right on the very thin line because there's going to be something that happens, and you need to have some cushion for things to happen. And if it doesn't, but it will, but if it doesn't, but it will, then you'll have that money. But that, Marc point there about an extended warranty, you can get an extended warranty, but you can buy a used RV and get an extended warranty. Don't roll it into the cost of the financing. If you finance your RV, pay separately for the extended warrant. I don't care if you have to put it on an interest-free credit card and divide it by 11 and pay it off in the year so you don't get hit with that interest and whatever you have to do, actually. Our extended warranty company, you can do whatever. I think it's for payments or something. They have like a payment plan. Don't roll it in, def financing because a lot of people will finance an RV over 15, 20 years or more, and if you roll in that $7,000 payment for or 5,000 or $4,000, whatever it costs you for an extended warranty, you have to do the math on what that is really going to cost you factoring in the interest. So don't do that because or what you can do is put that money aside and so that let's say I don't pull a number out because it depends on your rig, right? Let's say it's $4,000. You can put 4,000 aside. Don't touch it. How disciplined are you, right? Or get an extended warranty, but then that sometimes we'll have something on the RV like when we had the nav on down in Florida that it would have qualified to be fixed under the warranty, but we couldn't get into a shop for six months. We needed it fixed like right away, so MK had to fix it. So even though you have a warranty, it doesn't always mean you'll be able to get into a shop to get it repaired right away or just may not be convenient on your most, most repairs on RVs can be done by someone 80% if you're willing to get your hands dirty and watch a couple YouTube videos. Most RV repairs can't be done yourself. They can be done.

Host: And you mentioned you can't get into the RV dealer, but even sometimes if you get it into the RV dealer, they still might not do it or they might not do it for quite a long time horror stories. Yeah, we're smiling 'cause we wish we broke a lot of you guys' rules. We wish we had listened to this podcast before we ended up buying. But yeah, have has anyone ever said you guys should write a book?

Guest: They have, and we did. We've written two of them, two bestselling books. Our first book, "Living the RV Life: Ultimate Guide to Life on the Road," is one that's focused on people who want to do extended RV travel. And then we have a second book, "RV Hacks: 400 Ways to Make Your Life Easier, Safer, and More Fun." And that's both have U Been bestsellers and both are, yeah. But that's funny that that's the first one. Yeah, that was our first rig, and fun fact, do you recognize this location? So don't... So that's a donor that is the donor M took that with the drone. And then the second book, about a week after month after we moved into our new house and now upside down and no furniture and our heads were spinning going, "What the heck?" Um, something... El, you go full time, you get off the road, you're so used to having your furniture in your RV that you realize you don't have any furniture when you have a... Yeah, we just start back into a house. But I'm glad we didn't pay for storage all those years because it wouldn't have fit and worked in this house. Now, our house is furnished. It's small. It's a th000 square feet, but it's perfect for us, felt very palatial after moving out of a 350 square foot RV. But this is the second book, "RV Hacks," and that's broken up into six chapters. Um, driving out the repairs and maintenance camp in campgrounds, I'll be living, working on the road, families, kids, and pets. So there's something for everyone. And it's one of those fun, easy books you can open at any page, and you just, like, read a hack. You don't have to read. You can read from front to back, or you can just randomly jump from chapter to chapter or, you know, play trivia games when you're driving down the road and see how well your significant other knows the answer to that question, whatever. But, uh, yeah, they're great, um, fun books that I, you know, the publisher reached out to us for the first one in early 2018, and I'd always kind of thought wanted to write. I've always wanted to write a book, actually, but then when the publisher reached out and said, "Well, there isn't anything out there to... We see RVing becoming a much, uh, bigger trend like extended and full-time RVing," and so they, they had a lot of foresight, and we said, "We think so too." So, yeah, it was great to be able to consolidate that into one place where you can go and read blogs, YouTube videos, like we did all of that as well. There's a lot more information out there now than there was when we started. So that's both good and bad because it's good because there's a lot more information, information out there, but it's challenging because now it's overwhelming, and you don't know what to trust. There's a lot of drama and clickbait content out there now. Um, we actually don't even watch YouTube anymore or any other YouTube especially, but because there we know seeing a lot of the drama, clickbaity type headings, and it's like, "Oh, we got kicked out of the campground." I'm like, "Really? In 10 years, been kicked out of a campground, like, really dude? What did you do?" I mean, you just... You're trying to get it worries me that a lot of people watching these YouTube videos get a bad, um, perspective for the lifestyle. It doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be. I'm not... It's not all sunshine and roses and rainbows. I really want people to know that it is not. But it is also not full of all this drama, scary stuff that you're seeing. But that's the stuff that people click on, and they create that content because that's how they make money. So it's so... We just done.

Host: Yeah, and that goes for not just the RV world, but everything nowadays. Whether it's financial, real estate, there's contradicting information everywhere. So you bring up a good point. There's a ton of... You can look up 10 different videos that say 10 different things about what you should do RVing. How can people know that they're actually getting good information?

Guest: Well, I think like anything, whether it's RVing or anything, you really need to spend a bit of time looking at the source. Do you know, is their face on there? Do they tell something about themselves and their story and their experience? I've seen some blogs where their experience is living in a trailer in their grandmother's backyard, like, literally, and then they're positioning themselves as these experts. I'm like, okay, I'm not really... Not getting that here. But, you know, do some research. How long have they been doing it? What, you know, how are they communicating? Like, it shouldn't be in a way that's being very forceful on a certain way of opinion so much as realizing that everybody's different and there's no one right way to RV. So I think getting balanced information is a really important point. Check on what is their background and experience, um, and, you know, I think that's one of the things that we really like about "Living the RV Life." We say, "Look, you can spend months researching YouTube, but you could read this in a weekend and it will give you a good baseline. And then you can with that go do your other research and see if it's aligning with that, because this was all verified and, you know, checked. This is not just us whipping out a book with our opinions. This is with a major publishing house. They edit it, they fact-check everything, and that takes a long time. And when you're turning out YouTube videos and blog posts, they're often thrown up in the matter of an hour or so. And ours, our blog posts, we can take 40 hours to write one article because we do a lot of research, do a lot of, you know, checking accuracy, and also not trying to force our opinions onto other people, but so much as get them to ask the questions that's going to help them reach the correct answer for their own selves, their life stage, their financial situation, their goals. Like, there'll be some people might say, "Just go out and do it. What have you got to lose?" Well, that's easy to say when you're 20s and 30s. But if you're someone, you know, like 40s or 50s or someone who's 60 and approaching retirement, well, that may not make the most sense. But it's harder for them to recover if they make a bad decision, right? So, you know, you've got time on your side when you're younger. And so I think, you know, the more money you're planning to spend, the more plan time you're planning to spend in an RV, the more you have on the line, the more you really want to do your research before you dive in so that you know that you're doing it as smartly as you possibly can. But there's, like I said, there's a lot of scary stuff out there online. It doesn't have to be that way, but certainly go in with your eyes wide open and buyer beware. And it's balancing, how do you balance that? How do you, you know, do that research but then go into analysis paralysis where you're so terrified to make a decision that you... And I think that can be really tricky for some people. But when you know yourself and what's important to you, and then you find that things are checking the boxes, then you'll know it's like... But they say, how do you know when you've met the right partner? You just know, right? 100%.

Host: Yeah. Do the research on the research that you're getting. And if it turns out that that source has written two bestselling books, even better. I can't believe how...

Guest: Through the reviews, yeah. Don't just trust or believe us. Go read the reviews and see what other people say.

Host: Sure, yeah. And I can't believe how fast this episode's flying by. I feel like I haven't asked half the questions I had written down, but that's okay. We've opened up a whole other... Not can of worms, we've gone on a whole different route, and it's been really informative. Thank you guys for sharing so much information. I do want to add, you talk about 400 RV hacks. Um, I can think of one hack somebody could do right now, which is heading over to your guys' website, RVLifestyle.com, and filling out the "What is your RV type?" Quiz. When I did it before, personality, what's your, what's your RV style? That's a fun little quiz, and I did it right before, yeah, right before we started the podcast. We were preparing, and yeah, it takes, it's 10 questions, takes like two minutes. We both got Adventurer. So, and it's, I would say it's pretty deadly accurate. I got the... I took a screenshot. Let me see what it says. "I'm glad to see you're aligned with your travel partner. That's a big first step." Yeah, see here, it's both. Can you see it? Yeah, try, try, try, and tested, good dose of the great outdoors. Um, I like this part: "Your preferred choice of RV will be determined by where it can take you and what activities it offers. Um, you like national parks, heading out on a new trail, paddling a quiet stretch of river, um, so much better if it is shared with a friend, furry or otherwise." That's...

Guest: And then you'll have somebody that only wants to stay at high-end RV resorts with level paved sites and no... and dirt, and, you know, that's... that's... that's a different kind of style. That's why we always ask the questions, so make the right decisions for them, and, and, you know, you can have the best of both worlds. I like both, actually. I like staying at nice, clean, level campgrounds, and then I love going out and boondocking in the desert, and then when that gets a bit old, we go back in and have a really long shower and think how wonderful that is. Do your laundry, exactly. Yeah, yeah. We'll put a link in the show notes for all the sources we talked about today, and, yeah, it's just RVLifestyle.com. At the top of your website, you can fill out the quiz. But yeah, we'll start wrapping this thing up. If you could have listened to this podcast when you were first starting out, what is one question I did not ask tonight that you wished I would have, and how would you answer that?

Guest: Well, I'm glad you didn't ask the question, "Where's the best place you've been?" So, you get a big green check Marc for that. Uh, but I think the biggest question that I wish more people would ask, whether it's, you know, you and the podcast or, is, how has the lifestyle changed you? Because we go out with a big long bucket list. I want to go here and there and do this and do that, and you think it's about the places and the experiences, and it is, but then along the way you realize you grow and you change and your perspective on life and the world changes along with that, and your mind opens, and then you start to realize, actually, funny, just before the call, I posted on, um, on your Instagram at RV Love Travel, if you want to check it out, and it's like Marc sitting here at the desk that we're sitting, talking to now, and we're here at a park, we're surrounded by park models, so it's not a particularly scenic location, but the sunset was unbelievable, and you just... You can see, I did a pan around the windows, and you're just surrounded by these, and it's just those moments where you just, in everyday life, that didn't happen as much. You have to make an effort to go out and see a sunset, and this sounds so sunrise, too. I'm just not a morning person, but, uh, just... Just those moments where you just stop and you... You, I think, you become more present with all the little moments that happen, where some of our most memorable, special experiences were actually not any of the top, big places. Some were, but not all, and there were places I would never necessarily say, "Oh, you have to go here," it was just that that experience that day happened to be magical for reasons that I can't even always explain. So, I don't know if this makes sense, if I'm getting a little esoteric, but I think it's just we're different people now than when we started, and, uh, and I like that.

Host: Yeah, no, makes perfect sense. Yeah, that's great. Um, for someone listening to this podcast who wants to set up a lifestyle where they can travel on their own terms but aren't quite there yet, what is one thing they could start doing today?

Host: Do a budget and get clear on your finances, yeah, so you know how, like if you can generate a find a way to generate income mobile, then that's a big first step, you know. I chose to leave my, you know, good job to find another job that would allow me to do remote, is a huge factor for us to be able to hit the road. I eventually left that job too, so we could just launch our, do our own business to have even more freedom with our schedule, but I think to Julie's point, yeah, have you figured... Have it figured out financially how you're going to make the lifestyle sustainable longer term? It's hard to... Once you get in there, you're going to want it longer and longer, and you need to, so you have to have some idea of the sustainability before you start, because you're likely going to want to continue.

Host: Sure, yeah, that's great. Um, last question, guys, where can our audience find out more about you?

Guest: Well, we're at RVLove.com, and you'll find everything that we have linked there. You can Google us, RV Love, and you'll find us on social media as well, and, yeah, we just love you to say hi and come and drop us a note on social media or shoot us a note in the email, and jump on our... Do that quiz, do that quiz, and figure out your RV travel personality that will get you onto our email if you check the box, and, uh, yeah, we'd love to stay in touch and keep sharing and keep learning and see more people out there and doing it, and doing it well. Doing it well, we... We want to see people thriving, and back to Marc's point about the finances, you won't feel free if you're drowning in debt, if you're, you know, drowning in credit card debt, you know. If you need to delay your plans a bit, but for some people, we've seen some people do it for a while to get out of debt, so it's what are your goals in life, not just for RVing, but what are your goals for your life, for your financial life, for your relationship, for it all comes down to knowing your why, why you're wanting to do it, and then prioritize that, yep, so start with that, know your why.

Host: Wow, guys, so many valuable points and quotes and information in this podcast. Thanks again, and last, last question, just for... Doesn't stay in too much suspense, what are we talking about for travel tips?

Guest: Need to talk about Sedona today. Yeah, Sedona, Arizona, on the cover of our book, and we love it, and we actually just did a little trip up there last month, so a fresh new restaurant to share.

Host: Yeah, all right, everybody, keep an eye out for that episode airing in two days. Marc and Julie, thanks again.

Guest: Thanks, everyone. Bye