Sarah McCammon on Politics, Media, and Leaving White Evangelicalism

A World of Difference

Uncover the unexpected impact of the Trump campaign on the evangelical community as NPR journalist Sarah McCammon shares her personal journey. Her book delves into the complex experiences of those navigating a transition away from evangelicalism, offering a raw and empathetic perspective. Join us as we explore the surprising insights and vulnerabilities that shape this compelling narrative. Stay tuned for a revealing conversation that will leave you with a fresh perspective and a newfound appreciation for diverse religious experiences.

My special guest is Sarah McCammon

Sarah McCammon, a national political correspondent for NPR and co-host of the NPR Politics podcast, is recognized for her extensive coverage of political, social, and cultural divisions in America, specifically delving into the intersections of politics and religion, reproductive rights, and the conservative movement. With past experience as NPR's lead political reporter during the 2016 election cycle, assigned to the Donald Trump campaign, she offers a comprehensive understanding of the impact of Trumpism on evangelical communities. Her upcoming book, "The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church," draws from her personal background growing up in white evangelicalism in the Midwest, providing a firsthand perspective on the subject matter. Sarah McCammon's authoritative insights, coupled with her personal experiences, contribute a significant and authentic viewpoint to the discussion.

Don't be afraid of questions. Try to find trusted people, whether that's people in your church or outside of it, people who are of goodwill and that love you and tell them what you're thinking about. - Sarah McCammon

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Unpacking the challenges of an evangelical upbringing - understanding the complexities and impact on personal identity.
• Exploring the influence of Trumpism on evangelical communities, shedding light on shifting ideologies and values.
• Understanding the evolving demographics of American Christianity and its implications for society and culture.
• Embracing inclusivity and diversity in religious spaces, fostering a sense of belonging and understanding for all individuals.
• Analyzing the role of media in shaping evangelical narratives, providing insight into the power of storytelling and representation.
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Evolving Demographics of American Christianity

The landscape of American Christianity is undergoing a marked transformation, with shifts in demographics and the growing influence of social media. As Sarah emphasizes, these changes may result in a more liberal, secular, and diverse religious demographic. Recognizing and embracing these shifts is crucial for evolving religious spaces and fostering inclusivity and diversity within such communities.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

• Preorder Sarah McCammon's book The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church releasing on March 19, 2024. Preordering helps support the book's sales and ensures you receive it as soon as it's available.
• Follow Sarah McCammon on Twitter at @sarahmccammon for updates, insights, and discussions on her work and the topics she covers.
• Subscribe to Sarah McCammon's Substack Off the Air for nuanced conversations, personal insights, and behind-the-scenes stories from her experiences as a journalist.
• Join the Difference Makers community on Patreon to access exclusive, in-depth conversations with guests like Sarah McCammon, where you can engage with others and learn how to make a difference together.
• Engage with Sarah McCammon's work and share your thoughts on her book, her insights, and the topics discussed in the podcast to continue the conversation and contribute to making a difference.
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The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction to the World of Difference podcast

00:00:44 - Benefits of Therapy and Betterhelp

00:01:17 - Introduction of Sarah McCammon

00:02:27 - Sarah McCammon's Background and Book

00:03:00 - Personal Vulnerability in Writing

00:14:09 - Finding Inner Strength

00:16:34 - Impact of Trump Narrative

00:19:52 - Pressure for Perfectionism

00:23:08 - Understanding Exvangelical

00:27:43 - Impact of Evangelical Movement

00:28:58 - Rise of the Nones and Impact on Politics

00:29:36 - Factors Contributing to Change

00:30:15 - Church Response and Criticism

00:32:24 - Intimate Perspectives and Voices

00:35:22 - Inclusivity and Diverse Perspectives

00:43:25 - The Impact of Gen Z in the Election

00:44:25 - Future of Exvangelical Movement

00:46:08 - Evolving Religious Spaces

00:47:28 - Connecting with Sarah

00:48:23 - Sarah's Writing and Impact

I think it's okay to pray anytime you want. And I don't think you have to know exactly what you think about that. - Sarah McCammon

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction to the World of Difference podcast

Host Lori Adams Brown introduces the podcast as a platform for those who are different and want to make a difference. She also mentions the podcast's sponsor, Betterhelp, and the benefits of therapy for personal growth and self-discovery.

00:00:44 - Benefits of Therapy and Betterhelp

Brown discusses the benefits of therapy for personal growth, self-discovery, and mental well-being. She highlights the role of therapy in understanding oneself and making a positive impact on the world. Lori Adams-Brown also promotes Betterhelp as a resource for professional therapy.

00:01:17 - Introduction of Sarah McCammon

Brown introduces Sarah McCammon as a national political correspondent for NPR and co-host of the NPR Politics podcast. She outlines McCammon's work focusing on political, social, and cultural divides in America, including the intersections of politics and religion, reproductive rights, and the conservative movement.

00:02:27 - Sarah McCammon's Background and Book

Brown discusses McCammon's upcoming book, "The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church," highlighting McCammon's personal experience growing up in white evangelicalism in the Midwest. Brown also mentions McCammon's diverse media appearances and her current residence in Norfolk, Virginia.

00:03:00 - Personal Vulnerability in Writing

Brown and McCammon discuss the personal vulnerability of writing about one's experiences, with McCammon sharing her

00:14:09 - Finding Inner Strength

Sarah shares a spiritual moment of finding inner strength in a challenging situation outside the church. She discusses the evangelical expectation of spiritual moments and the concept of loving one's enemies.

00:16:34 - Impact of Trump Narrative

Sarah discusses how the Trump narrative of labeling reporters as the worst people has affected the perception of evangelical whistleblowers reporting spiritual or sexual abuse in churches. She highlights the importance of criticisms from within the evangelical community.

00:19:52 - Pressure for Perfectionism

Sarah reflects on the intense pressure for perfectionism and behavior management of children within evangelical spiritual formation. She shares her experience of feeling the responsibility to be a witness for Jesus through her family's appearance and behavior.

00:23:08 - Understanding Exvangelical

Sarah explains the term "exvangelical" and addresses misconceptions about the group being exclusively non-religious or secular. She emphasizes the common experience of stepping away from evangelicalism and the complexity of the journey.

00:27:43 - Impact of Evangelical Movement

Sarah discusses the well-established impact of the evangelical movement on American politics and society. She also explores the broader societal and cultural impact of the exvangelical movement, highlighting its role in the larger shift away from religion.

00:28:58 - Rise of the Nones and Impact on Politics

The conversation delves into the growing demographic of the Nones and its potential impact on American politics, as well as the erosion of the Republican base and the rise of a more liberal and secular movement.

00:29:36 - Factors Contributing to Change

Demographic changes, social media, and the impact of Trumpism are discussed as factors contributing to the shift in evangelicalism and Christianity, with implications for both politics and culture.

00:30:15 - Church Response and Criticism

The conversation explores the responses of churches and prominent pastors to the move away from evangelicalism, as well as the criticism from Christian evangelical thinkers and the need for churches to become more open to diverse points of view.

00:32:24 - Intimate Perspectives and Voices

The dialogue emphasizes the value of intimate perspectives and granular insights from individuals raised in the evangelical world, shedding light on experiences and perspectives often overlooked in academic conversations.

00:35:22 - Inclusivity and Diverse Perspectives

The conversation highlights the need for inclusivity and the elevation of voices of people of color and women in evangelical spaces, as well as the potential impact on shaping priorities, theology, and perspectives on scriptures.

00:43:25 - The Impact of Gen Z in the Election

The conversation begins with a focus on Gen Z's influence on the upcoming election and their diverse upbringing in the digital age, reflecting on the changes happening in society.

00:44:25 - Future of Exvangelical Movement

Sarah discusses the challenges faced by younger exvangelicals in forming their own religious identity and the need for more inclusive religious spaces. She also explores potential future trends in an increasingly diverse and secularized society.

00:46:08 - Evolving Religious Spaces

The discussion shifts to the evolution of religious spaces, with a particular focus on churches genuinely welcoming non-traditional beliefs and the need for meaningful connections in an evolving society.

00:47:28 - Connecting with Sarah

Sarah shares her presence on various social media platforms, emphasizing her engagement with Substack for more nuanced conversations and insights into her life as a journalist and a mother.

00:48:23 - Sarah's Writing and Impact

The conversation concludes with a focus on Sarah's impactful writing, her vulnerability in exploring personal narratives, and the importance of amplifying her voice and perspective in the media and journalism industry.

I think there's something like that, particularly in an increasingly diverse and secularized society. I think people are always going to need connection and look for meaning, but where they find it, I think might change a little bit. - Sarah McCammon

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