Live Draft Day Chat with Eric Reno

Mission Control Podcast

In this episode, Mike sits down to have a discussion with Eric Reno, the founder and president of Paramount Roofing in Detroit. They go over the benefits of offering roof repair as a service and the best ways to get started with it. Eric goes on to give insights into some of the things he has learned through his many years of experience running a roofing business.

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:00 Mike&Eric All right. Welcome back to another episode of the Mission Control podcast. I'm your host, Mike Starnes with the Sun Digital, and we are in Detroit. So for the draft, or maybe unreal, I'm with my guy Eric Reno on Detroit's finest. I appreciate you letting me come to your city. Thank you very much. How do you feel about the first round pick for the Lions?

00:00:18:00 - 00:00:43:20 Mike&Eric Huge, huge shot down corner guy. I was reading all through the grades today, and I just usually lay down the lines and just his reaction to what you got picked. And he's like, I'll say, I love it. So a lot of folks that watch this show, they're going to be in roofing, obviously. So I get guys that come to me and girls and they're running a company and they say, I only only do roof replacements.

00:00:43:20 - 00:01:04:02 Mike&Eric We don't do repairs, just replacements. My question for you is, is that a good strategy? And then why or why not? So I love repairs. I think repairs are some of our best margins and rebuilds an entire repair team. It is a different animal that everybody wants to go for the big. You know let's replace moving it done.

00:01:04:05 - 00:01:19:05 Mike&Eric But I'm more of like I'm planting seeds every day. So if I can just go for a bear and just plant that seed like, Hey, you're so good for two more years. Three more years, five more years. And I prefer that strategy. But it is a little harder. Like I'm one of the only companies in my area that does be merged.

00:01:19:12 - 00:01:34:24 Mike&Eric So a lot of the other companies that I'm going to be doing because they just can't get there. okay. So from a sales perspective, what would you say as far as percentage of sales that turn from repair to replacement? Like what does that look like? They start out as a repair and then they turn into a replacement?

00:01:34:24 - 00:01:48:21 Mike&Eric I think I mean, we have a lot of them. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what percentage it is, but it's a lot. I mean, once you get in someone's house, they trust you to the only guy that said you don't need a roofer. Right? Like, we can just do a quick repair or a routine job or switch these pipe collars.

00:01:48:21 - 00:02:05:15 Mike&Eric I'll get you another five years. Then when it's that time, you're not calling anybody. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. You build that trust, right? And then you can command the price that you deserve. Yeah. And then from the marketing side, like, the way that I explain people to think about it is that most people, they're not looking for the most expensive solution initially, Right?

00:02:05:15 - 00:02:22:27 Mike&Eric So they can have a five year old roof, a 25 year old roof. And if they know there's some sort of issue, they're going to like roof repair. Right. So it's going to they're going to lead in with the most cost effective solution to their problem to get that remedy, even if they know in their heart of hearts that ultimately it's time for the roof to be done.

00:02:22:29 - 00:02:40:18 Mike&Eric So it creates a problem, like when you're trying to focus on like running Google ads because you have you know, they're searching for a repair even if they need a replacement or like them, the majority of service is going to be in generalized keywords, right? It's going to be roofers, roofing contractors. There's no way for a marketing agency to discern what the intentions of somebody looking for a roofer in their means.

00:02:40:19 - 00:03:03:13 Mike&Eric Right. Could be a repair. It could be a replacement, could be storm damage. We don't know. And if that's a large percentage of search or alienating yourself and the opportunity as far as like getting in front of that homeowner, it's tough. But I think for in a lot of instances, it's smaller companies that don't do repairs. And I think because of based on the feedback I've gotten, it's the logistical challenges of, okay, I don't have a team to do the repairs.

00:03:03:13 - 00:03:23:08 Mike&Eric I don't have a repair tag that I can rely on that's readily available. So like, you know, what would your advice be to somebody who is, let's say, a one or two man operation if they want to get into doing repairs while still growing their business? Yeah, the best way for me is like the network through the different subcontractors and posting ads like in different Facebook groups.

00:03:23:11 - 00:03:42:22 Mike&Eric And we're targeting, you know, like, Hey, are you sick of working on a roofing crew? Are you tired of dealing with like, I'm trying to get paid and chasing down dollars? Like, here's a solution where I can work you. I do salary. That way the guys are guaranteed and near seasonal. I don't want my vertex going to looking for work in the winter.

00:03:42:22 - 00:04:02:06 Mike&Eric Right. So I'm paying and whether they're working or not. But I think that's that's the biggest part of it is recruiting those guys that have talent and that are just sick of the crew life because it's high time with the hundreds. Time Yeah, every day. You know, we're going to different houses finding up and down. And as these guys get seasoned, they get older, they're looking for something that's a little bit more structured and guaranteed.

00:04:02:09 - 00:04:19:16 Mike&Eric And I think your salary position in marketing yourself like that to them is kind of where I've really found a sweet spot. Okay. Is that something that a lot of companies do as far as offering salary, or is that something that you feel like you do a bit differently? Yeah, I mean, I think at our size it might be a little bit more common, but I don't think so.

00:04:19:16 - 00:04:42:20 Mike&Eric At a smaller size, they're trying to pay, you know, less. If you think about repairs, are, are net on repairs, is this much greater. Right. Like we're getting a lot more we're getting a lot more margin on the site. So to guarantee that work and just makes it feel better. Right. You're going to get a better quality candidate versus just like $25 an hour and a lot around that.

00:04:42:27 - 00:05:01:10 Mike&Eric Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned something that I want to touch on. You mentioned Facebook groups for finding crews and things like that. It was a very well thought out pitch. So we're going to talk about your pain, Why it's hard not getting paid to tell you this. I this here's a slogan. Call me. Right. But you showed me something last night when we were at dinner.

00:05:01:16 - 00:05:23:11 Mike&Eric And this is something that I've been preaching for years for people to do because it's so effective. Right. So you were in a local Facebook group. What was the area? Washington Township. So if you find this Washington Township Facebook group on Facebook, so, you know, you can fact talk to us, you can go to that group search like roofing, wanting 2.7 thousand, 22.7 thousand people.

00:05:23:14 - 00:05:41:15 Mike&Eric And somebody asked about a roofer and you were there. I mean, no less than 15 times. And I might be grossly underselling that right? Somebody in need was looking for a roofing contractor, and it was paramount. Paramount, paramount, paramount, paramount, paramount, paramount. Right. And the thing of it is like, not only is that person who has the issue, are they going to reach out to you?

00:05:41:15 - 00:06:02:10 Mike&Eric Most likely. It's all those other 22,699 people that aren't in need right now. Like those are brand impressions that are super powerful because not just like a generalized advertisement or a billboard, it is all these people building you up as an industry. It's the referral engine. Yeah. It's fucking amazing. And how do you how do you make it happen?

00:06:02:12 - 00:06:22:04 Mike&Eric I mean, there's a couple of different things, right? Like, you're building your brand, you're doing well, you're doing good work in the community. But for us, like communities, one of our five star here, so it's a five star experience and I would live and die there. And one of the stars is community. Yeah. So not only do we you know, we won't lay mulch for the community.

00:06:22:04 - 00:06:42:11 Mike&Eric We've done a lot of different events, but we're constantly doing braiding ourselves into the community. And not only that, but we're creating raven paint. So when we finished with the jobs of like, let me send you some writer reviews, let me remind you where we're sending out our referral program. Like we're always because with roofing, it's not like grass.

00:06:42:13 - 00:07:05:07 Mike&Eric Take grass every week. Like I don't give me a current cost. I mean, one or two right down the road, but I'm not doing a roof and you're not one for that same house. So how do I stay on top of their mind without pestering them with emails until they stamp me? Right? Keep me on top one. So it's the branding, it's the raving fans, it's the community involvement that's actually being a part of the community and being the team there.

00:07:05:10 - 00:07:28:16 Mike&Eric So we're there just seeing it all day. So it's on billboards, guard sides, trucks, their website. Every time you open your Facebook. Right. There's my face, right? Like that's it's a good face. So that's how we do it. So. So when you first go back to the original question, when you're tour is when you're first building that, you know, you really have to think about like it's not about the cool trucks and like all these graphics all over your trucks.

00:07:28:16 - 00:07:44:24 Mike&Eric Do you see it so many times, like you see a rap truck go by, right? And you can't even read If there's something on it, you can't even read it. So simplicity about simplicity and just keeping your brand and the colors and everything uniform goes a long way. Yeah, I agree. I think that's that's a very good point.

00:07:44:27 - 00:08:01:25 Mike&Eric So I wanna put you on the spot here because I'm kind of an asshole. That's all I like to do. So you've been in business for a while now. What's one thing, one decision that you've made where you look back retrospectively and you're like, I'm so fucking happy I did that. there's a lot of those. Name a few of them that come to mind.

00:08:01:27 - 00:08:18:20 Mike&Eric I mean, the first one in the hardest one for me was the delegation process. Like you're going from like 3 million to 5 million them believing that, you know, as owners we think we're the best at everything because we've done it all and we built it all. Yeah. So say like, I'm the best sales guy, right? I'm just going to go sell.

00:08:18:22 - 00:08:42:25 Mike&Eric And then to actually train a team and let them take it. And then you just all of a sudden you're like, Man, I was that maybe I was good. But this engine still operates so long that right and that that's hard to get past but when and happens I mean hiring real leaders that's another one like real managers like you have people that you've grown your business.

00:08:42:25 - 00:09:02:10 Mike&Eric You have people that you started but right. Yeah. You're surrounded with you're kind of dedicated to. Sure. But most of the time you'll find that those are real leaders and real match ups where we can be here, you know, hanging out for draft weekend. And I was in Florida all last week, right? My phone's not rings. That vibrating pitch is being taken care of.

00:09:02:12 - 00:09:22:15 Mike&Eric So you're hiring yet? You put me on a rocket. So I think, you know, those are the two biggest things where it's like I regret not doing it sooner. I regret like, kind of kicking the can down the road, like trying to mold people versus like bringing people in that can make a difference off the get go. Just like the draft, right?

00:09:22:16 - 00:09:41:03 Mike&Eric Like first round pick. We're big, we're bringing people in that can play. We're not bringing people in that could sit on the bench like Arnold said. Yeah. And and the people I leaders on I want would like absolutely. And whoever spot he's going to take is is that like he's a terrible cornerback you know he's still a professional athlete in the NFL does well but we're doing it for the betterment of the team.

00:09:41:04 - 00:10:01:06 Mike&Eric Yeah and it's like when you take your top sales guy and you automatically put them this is in my situation and I know it happens. And a lot of companies are like, this is my guy sales guy, so I'm gonna make him a manager Manager, right? It's a totally different player, right? yeah. The guys that are the go getters and the door knockers and the hazards are different than the people that are analytical.

00:10:01:06 - 00:10:21:11 Mike&Eric Like QB Jack to the jeebies pushing. Yeah, yeah. So it's I've done sales, I've done collections and it all has kind of like a same like commission based structure, heavily incentivized and like usually it's going to be the people that are successful in those in the sales business and role they're going to be alphas, they're going to be competitive, they're going to drive maybe some vices.

00:10:21:17 - 00:10:42:28 Mike&Eric Right. But but and so but like, if you if you now if you bring that into the management perspective, that's not necessarily I don't think the traits that you want with that. Also like when they see other like high performing sales reps they're typically going out earn their manager right. And that's really hard for somebody. If you got somebody that's making 250, $300,000 a year in sales, they take a position as a sales manager.

00:10:42:28 - 00:10:58:21 Mike&Eric I mean, are you paying them $253,000? Yeah, right, right. Selling out of the team. So now we're taking a step back and let's say we're doing it for fulfillment because we think that's what we want as that salesperson to transition into a management career. And now they see the next guy making 300, right? I think that's tough. I think it's tough.

00:10:58:22 - 00:11:15:10 Mike&Eric I think it's a different set of skills. So I agree with you more for mindset. And then to your point, I think the the one thing I wish I would've done sooner is get shit out of my head and on paper. Yeah. And it kind of goes hand in hand with like bringing people in and delegating and things like that.

00:11:15:10 - 00:11:32:22 Mike&Eric And I think that if I would have wrote shit down and seen all these issues on paper consistently in front of me, instead of dealing with them as they come day by day, you blank of years gone by like, I'm still dealing with this fucking dumb issue. Like, but there's 37 of them, right? So you're consistently being riddled with it's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

00:11:32:25 - 00:11:52:09 Mike&Eric Plus, if you're working in the business side of the business, you can't even see most of the stuff because you sell like horse blinders. I mean, you can't see who's up beside you. You wanna see in front of you, right? Yeah. So it's really like training yourself to take a thousand foot view of we're looking over tile and we're watching pieces move versus versus being increases, you know.

00:11:52:12 - 00:12:07:06 Mike&Eric Right. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. I mean, you know, for us hunters out there, right, like you got a bow and arrow and we're shooting a deer at 35 yards, museum gear runs, right? And then you got to find blood and like, man, I know it was right here. And you look back at the tree and you weren't even that far away.

00:12:07:06 - 00:12:36:15 Mike&Eric Which can you find it right here? Ground. So it's kind of the same thing in business, right? It's like you have to be up here because when we're up here, we're running, running this stuff down and capturing it. We can really make that, you know, you let that sink in. That's just crazy. What do you what have you noticed as far as, like changes in the industry or any impacts of your business in the last 12 months?

00:12:36:18 - 00:12:56:15 Mike&Eric I don't know, man. You know, like, maybe I should be more open to, I want to say like a very focused on what I'm doing. And I'm so I feel like I just learned and I was just telling my dad's, you know, you're talking about private of private equity companies. And so he's asking me about what would you entertain that?

00:12:56:18 - 00:13:27:23 Mike&Eric And it's like, honestly, I feel like I just learn how to how to actually scale and build something that is, you know, a leg. Like I'm just like I feel like I just limited. So for me, I mean, I know there's stuff changing on the outside. I know like the private equity is coming in. I know that the mergers and acquisitions are happening, but I'm just I'm so focused on what I'm doing that, you know, I no matter what, you're going to find a different, you know, as technology the Internet came out, this comes out every day.

00:13:27:24 - 00:13:51:05 Mike&Eric It's always something new, right? Yeah. And humans always find a way to survive. And we always find a way to counteract what's coming to our business. So I'm not even, you know, like, I'm just bringing, you know, like, all competing and sensible, bring it a bring it up like four of the bigger companies that are here again. Now, the last 12 months were like, you know, what do you think I'm man, I want to cube it, bring it out in the store.

00:13:51:12 - 00:14:13:22 Mike&Eric Okay, let's get it. What would you say? Like, let's say you got a company there at $1,000,000 and they're residential only, but they want to break into commercial. Like, when is the right time? What are the things that they look forward to? Because I would assume, like if you're taking on commercial jobs, like everyone loves the idea of commercial big tech and like big money, but like, what if something goes to is there a right time for that person?

00:14:13:23 - 00:14:39:24 Mike&Eric Are there things that they can do in anticipation of getting into commercial to set them up for success? Yeah, I mean, I know very few. The everybody I know in the country, I don't think there's a state I don't know somebody that that's about right. So I know very few that have done a success because it's such a different of I mean sure you could get into coatings, you can get in dabble and stuff, but we're talking about like prevailing wage pay tbo dirt less.

00:14:39:27 - 00:15:03:23 Mike&Eric EPDM You know, it's a different industry. Yes. Everything we do, everything we do, like we dabbled in it for five years, like, yeah, we do commercial like kind of like we talk, Yeah, we do a commercial, but now it's like having superintendents and, and the, you know, an entire infrastructure estimates that are just for commercial. We're it's, it's a huge, huge I mean that's a huge liability.

00:15:03:26 - 00:15:30:12 Mike&Eric You know we're not working over drywall and TV's now we're going over you know servers and and you know knows the millions of dollars of flipping and you're working with and it's just different. So I think like find your niche for riches are on the mentioned so I think find your niche like if that's what you want to do then yeah go full blast But you can't just dabble with large and let's just call them saying look, we can all roots.

00:15:30:15 - 00:15:52:04 Mike&Eric Is there, is there like a one tip that you could give somebody who decides, okay, I'm going to dive into commercial. Is there one thing like through your experience, if you would have known then what you know now, you would have been a lot better off. One of the two things of those fine investigator that knows everything, right, from safety, ocean standards to like, that's how they're built.

00:15:52:05 - 00:16:12:18 Mike&Eric No, Brett is I mean, man, he's so good and he came from a huge to top And then the other one is your cruise. It's not like least for us, it's not like you find subs to just do roofs like we do for residential. You know, it's like all of ours are in a house we pay a lot of you to like.

00:16:12:18 - 00:16:38:29 Mike&Eric We have in-house crews for us and our superintendent is and he's got to be the best in the state. You know, and we made the mistake, you know, office of just trying to sort it out and not having these key components in place. But those were the two big ones, like with the issue, again, getting real leaders and putting them in the place, recruiting them from their companies with the knowledge.

00:16:39:03 - 00:17:03:10 Mike&Eric Some areas instead of just because it's not a lot of trailer, the compressor gone. Gerald was right but this is a different animal. I, I think those are two really good nuggets. Yeah. And I'm very grateful for that to make sure that that because these are unicorns, they exist. And if you create something that they want to be a part of in your marching bands playing loud enough and they want to complain too, then it works.

00:17:03:12 - 00:17:30:12 Mike&Eric Okay, well, that's a nice transition into like, how do you build that culture right? That culture that people see it, they hear about it, they feel it, and they're like, I want to work for this person. I want to work with these people. Well, I think our great thing started and I don't want to give myself credit. My team does more than anybody, but it starts the job where it's like, I'm not afraid to like going to, you know, talk to other recruits and congratulate me and do whatever I have to do.

00:17:30:15 - 00:17:52:26 Mike&Eric Right. Like I'm friends with everybody in the state. Yeah, I think it's it starts with that. We're other companies are calling you, asking you for advice and other business owners and we're meeting people and like it start it starts from there because sort of like figure out how to like deliver like doing the fundraising, talking about creating the brain.

00:17:52:28 - 00:18:12:12 Mike&Eric How do you how do you make it go when you get to a point where you don't have to recruit anymore and people walk to your office and asking you for a job or asking to work with you, that's when you can get those higher level. So the leaders that I'm talking about that that are in my space are people that I worked with that I for.

00:18:12:12 - 00:18:41:00 Mike&Eric They seen me like just putting videos out and just being me. Right? Like authentically. Yeah. And I feel like people I own nobody money. No, I, I never and all of those things are what it really takes for guys that actually have a career somewhere to leave their career to take this journey with you. Right. They have to believe right there has to bleed.

00:18:41:03 - 00:18:58:22 Mike&Eric Yeah. Because you know that type of person, they're probably in a pretty good position in their career financially. And in order for them to leave, I mean, it's a it's a huge risk. Yeah. So the more stable you are, the the more it seems like they're going to be a part of something that is winning. Continuing to grow with that comes opportunity, upward trajectory in their career path.

00:18:58:24 - 00:19:26:29 Mike&Eric Yeah. So yeah, you know, I say that makes a huge impact for sure. Yeah. I mean that's great and it's not going to happen overnight. Like I said, it's you can just advertise. You get some crews or different positions, sales guys, sales reps. But it's again, these kind of guys that you need to really build something great athlete wife and you only have track record that they're willing to invest their lives and their families lives with You.

00:19:27:01 - 00:19:45:18 Mike&Eric So the person on the other side of this camera, why should they start doing video today for their business? It's huge transcendence. I mean, everybody knows and everybody's heard about it. And the number one thing is I want to I'm going to start doing it or I don't like to be on camera. I get nervous. I, I grab your iPhone and start shooting.

00:19:45:21 - 00:20:05:18 Mike&Eric Yeah. Just document what you do and who you are, who you really are. And when you do that, it makes it makes such an impact. You know, everywhere I go, I need somebody or ask you on YouTube or like, you know, at our little grocery store, like, I see you posting your videos on our Facebook, you know, And it's like, yeah, like, man, he did a great job last fall.

00:20:05:19 - 00:20:30:18 Mike&Eric Yeah. How you branding to, like, I don't have to sell you something to get my brand across. I don't have to be me being me and just documenting what I'm doing right. Yeah, I absolutely love it. And by the way, like, I think anybody who gets on video, regardless of introvert, extrovert, like, comfortable with public speaking, I think the first time, like when I first started recording and I still suck at video, I'll say that, but I suck a lot less than I did the first time.

00:20:30:22 - 00:20:56:12 Mike&Eric Like, and I can typically talk in a group of people and I'm fine and I'm sociable. I hit record, I started fucking sweating. I was stuttering, bro. I mean, it was an absolute dumpster fire. Like, what the fuck I did? It was like a 62nd video. I must have shot the thing 15 times. And then, like, you'll also evolve and, like, understand it better because, like, then if I fuck up in a three minute video and I'm 30 seconds in, I'm like, okay, I could take a deep breath, restart it, and then in post they can clip it up.

00:20:56:12 - 00:21:14:28 Mike&Eric Right in the beginning I made the 15 minute video and I kept fucking it up and dude, it took me like four days to shoot this thing because I wanted it perfect through and through and through because I was just ignorant. I didn't know any better because I didn't get the reps in previously. Yeah, and that's the thing too is like, you know, being repetitive in a lot of the videos for me, I don't even watch because I don't even want to critique.

00:21:14:28 - 00:21:28:15 Mike&Eric Like, I just wanted to be Israelis again. So yeah, this is what happened. This is how it came out. You know, like Anthony will edit out like where I if I say something twice or if we have to like edited but I don't mean like I don't want to critique myself. Yeah. Like I just want to get the information out.

00:21:28:15 - 00:21:48:29 Mike&Eric It's not for me, it's for somebody else. So I just want it, you know, like just run it and just keep doing it. The first time that one of the first times I was on camera my body gave it is a big landscaping out YouTube videos like sequences. This is one of my best buds. We're in the middle of a mall this busy as hell, right?

00:21:48:29 - 00:22:16:12 Mike&Eric I didn't even go with people. Just walk through them all. So this guy runs up to me with a camera, right? And he's like, All right, we're on video. I go there green. All my friend needs a roofing. And I'm like, What? That was the first time, but that's. Rose Yeah, well, anything else? I mean, we got to get the reps in which had the as a kind of that we're going to shut down by security.