Nutrition for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu w/ Alex Maclin

Podcast – Steph Gaudreau

When it comes to your training and your fueling, you need to think about the bigger picture. For sports such as Brazillian jiu-jitsu, which has a wide range of intensity demands, you need to switch your mindset and fuel your body for your practice. While being strong is a sort of ‘cheat code’ in Brazillian jiu-jitsu, it is nothing without the right fuel to back it up.

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Key Takeaways

If You Have Questions About Your Nutrition, You Should:

1. Remember that what you eat today is your fuel for tomorrow
2. Don’t believe the hype around trends like fasting and no-carb
3. Work with a coach who understands your goals and can help you achieve them in a sustainable way

Nutritional Lessons with Alex Maclin

Alex Maclin is a fellow performance nutrition coach, strength training enthusiast, and Brazilian jiu-jitsu player. He is passionate about helping athletically minded folks fuel themselves with the proper nutrition so that they can get more out of their performance. Throughout his health journey, he has coached hundreds of athletes through online training programs for weightlifting, strength, and conditioning, and is here today to share his knowledge with you.

Your Training Goes Beyond the Gym

When it comes to your training, it does not just exist when you are on the mat or in the gym. What you do around your training, how you eat, recover, hydrate, and think about your training, can also have a huge impact on your ability to accomplish your goals.

Even if you are not competing, if you want to train consistently and give it your all, you have to put some thought, strategy, and planning into what you are doing outside of the gym. This means thinking proactively about what you eat and remembering that what you eat today is fuel for tomorrow.

Optimal Fueling = Optimal Results

Training, recovery, and nutrition practices work together as a system to help you achieve your best results. This can get tricky when we see the amount of misinformation and conditioning that we have been exposed to, especially as female athletes.

Even if you are not into Brazillian jiu-jitsu, the fueling practices talked about in this episode will help guide your performance, nutrition, and your own athletic endeavors. When you can understand how to fuel yourself optimally, you can see your optimal performance a lot clearer.

What has your experience been with fueling for sports such as Brazillian jiu-jitsu? Share your thoughts with me in the comments below.

In This Episode

• What makes Brazilian jiu-jitsu such a natural transition for many athletes (7:30)
• The biggest nutrition mistakes that every day people fall into in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu world and beyond (19:58)
• Understanding the role of carbohydrates and protein in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, recovery, and strength training (31:47)
• Why fasting is challenging for athletic folks and how the timing of fueling can impact your performance (45:52)
• The importance of hydration in sports such as Brazillian jiu-jitsu, where sweat is flowing (1:05:07)

Quotes

“[This isn’t] just for competitive jiu-jitsu athletes. This is for the average everyday people like me who just want to train, and they love it, and they want to feel good on the mat.” (6:38)

“These foods that you are eating are foods that are going to help you feel better, help you perform better, and give you more energy. That is a really big mindset shift. Not looking at things as just having calories… but actually how this food is going to help you kick some more ass and recover.” (25:24)

“You can eat at levels that you need to eat without fasting; you just need to make sure that you are getting the proper amount of calories per day.” (48:56)

“What we eat today is for the next day.” (50:50)

“Learn concepts of jiu-jitsu rather than just learning all these moves. I think that was the most overwhelming part.” (1:15:57)

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FY 350 – Are You Eating Enough? Low Energy Availability in Sport

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Nutrition for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu w/ Alex Maclin Transcript

Steph Gaudreau
When it comes to performance nutrition for the sport of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, there are definitely some common challenges that athletic folks keep running into. On this episode of the podcast. I’m welcoming a very special guest and friend of mine. He’s also a fellow Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, much like myself. And on this episode, we’re getting into the nitty gritty about nutrition for Brazilian Jui-Jitsu.

Steph Gaudreau
If you’re an athletic 40, something woman who loves lifting weights, challenging yourself and doing hardship, the fuel your strength podcast is for you. You’ll learn how to eat, train and recover smarter, so you build strength and muscle, have more energy and perform better in and out of the gym. I’m strength nutrition strategist and weightlifting coach Steph Gaudreau. The Fuel Your Strength podcast dives into evidence based strategies for nutrition training and recovery, and why once you’re approaching your 40s and beyond, you need to do things a little differently than you did in your 20s. We’re here to challenge the limiting industry narratives about what women can and should do in training and beyond. If that sounds good, hit subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And let’s go!

Steph Gaudreau
Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining me this week. Before we get into all of the usual intro, make sure that if you appreciate this content you are hitting subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform, whether that’s your favorite podcast app, or over on YouTube. Also hit subscribe there and ring the bell for more notifications.

Steph Gaudreau
Today on the show, I’m very pleased to welcome a very special guests of mine. It’s fellow performance nutrition coach strength training enthusiast, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, Alex Maclin. Alex is somebody I have known for almost 10 years, far before either of us did Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And yet here we are both also now helping athletically minded folks to get more out of their performance by making sure they’re addressing the big rocks of their nutrition, really setting the stage for systems and structures to support those and then also dealing with the mindset challenges that inevitably pop up.

Steph Gaudreau
So on this episode, Alex and I are diving into some sports specific considerations for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, where we see people oftentimes making some mistakes and common missteps, with our nutrition, and so much more. Now, even if you’re not into the sport of Brazilian Jujitsu, you’ve never heard of it, you are still going to glean a lot of important information from performance nutrition in general, and priorities that you should generally be thinking about for your own athletic endeavors. Okay, let’s go ahead and dive into this very juicy episode with Alex Maclin.

Steph Gaudreau
Before we dive in, if you listen to this episode, and you’re like, Okay, I am ready to get to work. I want to take my strength, muscle energy and performance and take it up a notch, I want to take it to that next level. I want to feel like a badass, but at the same time, do it in a way that works with my physiology as an athletic woman over 40 with coaching and community support. And go ahead and check out Strength Nutrition Unlocked. This is my group program. We’re going to lay out the framework for you and guide you as you implement and really customize it to all the things that you’re doing your preferences, your likes, and the places you want to go with it. Then go ahead and get onboard. You can start your process by submitting an application at StephGadreau.com/apply. We’d love to hear from you and see you inside the program was going on Alex, welcome.

Alex Maclin
Thank you, Steph. Thank you for having me.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, of course.

Alex Maclin
it’s been a long time coming, I guess. Because we met a long time ago back in the day when I was in the shrug days.

Steph Gaudreau
We did and I was trying to do the mental math in my brain and think about when that was and it had to be 2015.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, it was probably about 2015.

Steph Gaudreau
A long time.

Steph Gaudreau
It’s wild! I think of Rust Cohle, like time is a flat circle. You know from from True Detective. And it’s so weird because there are so many people who I’ve met through things like CrossFit or weightlifting, and then inevitably they end up in BJJ. So it’s cool to sit down and chat with you about Jui-Jitsu stuff today. You know, over the years because this podcast has been now, this is inching up to year nine

Alex Maclin
You were still doing Stupid Easy Paleo stuff.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah. Wow. Time flies.

Alex Maclin
I know right?

Alex Maclin
Wow, congratulations.

Steph Gaudreau
We’ve had some breaks, we’ve had some we’ve had some evolution happen, but yeah, so in in the last nine years, I think I’ve done a handful, maybe three or four episodes about BJJ. And it’s weird because it’s it’s such an important part of my life, having now done done for seven years and like super consistently, but it’s always kind of taken a little bit of a backseat to me for me to like my other content that I’m sharing. How about you? How did that come about for you? Is that something you’re kind of like keeping it on the side? You weave it into your content now? Is it taking more of a front seat?

Alex Maclin
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s interesting that you say that because I feel the same way. Because, you know, like, I’ve been doing jujitsu for now six years. Yeah. So, and it’s a huge part of mine. I’m training all the time. And I love it. Right. But I rarely talk about it and just mainly because I think not a lot of people that probably follow us like, they probably don’t train and as most people don’t train jiu jitsu, but they’re just like, don’t know what it is. And you know, if I show up jujitsu video like me rolling, it doesn’t look like probably to a person who doesn’t know what’s going on. It looks like y’all are just rolling around or playing patty cake with each other. Like, what do y’all do?

Alex Maclin
And, and so I don’t know, I feel like it’s, it’s difficult to share that kind of stuff with my audience because they just don’t know what’s going on. But I’ve been trying to weave it in more. I’ve been trying to make more like jujitsu oriented content for you know, nutrition for people who do jujitsu not just like, competitive jujitsu athletes, but like, average, everyday people like me who just want to train and they love it, and they want to feel good on the mat.

Steph Gaudreau
Totally. Well, we’re gonna get into a lot of that in this show. But yeah, I appreciate hearing that. And I think yeah, we were we either call it pajama wrestling in our household. If you’re doing no gi it’s kind of like, slip and slide wrestling. Yeah, jello, wrestling, wrestling. So sweaty and gross. But you know, it’s interesting to to see how many folks have also had a connection to things like the CrossFit world, you know, or Olympic weightlifting or yes, that’s kind of a splinter for a lot of people off of CrossFit and how they got into it. But what do you think makes Jiu-Jitsu such a natural, like Jason Khalipa. I mean, people that were heavy into the CrossFit competitive space, and like, inevitably, they’re like, they end up doing jujitsu, and you’re like, how does that happen? So yeah. Is that is that next step?

Alex Maclin
It’s like the strength sport to jujitsu pipeline. No, I, you know, I was actually having this conversation with somebody the other day about this, and I think, there is a lot of parallels. You know, somebody like Jason Khalipa, or like these, like a lot of CrossFit athletes get into jujitsu after they stopped doing CrossFit competitively, because, you know, athletes are athletes and people who are who have always been, you know, that kind of level of athlete, they’re always kind of like, trying to search for that thing that gives them that Oh, yeah. Like that, that competitiveness, and that that ass kicking, right? And, and I think with, you know, strength sports and CrossFit athletes, like they find they start doing jujitsu, and they’re like, oh, my gosh, this is really hard. You know, this is really hard.

Alex Maclin
There’s a lot to it. And it’s, it’s a high like, internal reward system, because, you know, again, it’s like, you suck, and then and then you’re getting your ass beat, and then you start getting better and better, and then you start getting really good. And yeah, and it’s like, internally rewarding. So I think I think a lot of that goes into that. And then of course, you know, with strength athletes across it athletes or power lifters, whatever weight lifters you already have that match that you already have that strength that’s that’s been built up and that I mean, being strong is a cheat code and jujitsu like people. I know people in jujitsu tend to like frown upon, Oh, you’re so strong, but and I heard that so much when I was like a white belt.

Alex Maclin
And I know that I was using a lot of strength and explosiveness but now that I’ve been practicing more and I have better technique, it is 100% positive thing because yeah, I mean, I am stronger than a lot of people that I trained with or roll with and then it comes out but it’s because I’m able to use now the technique and apply the strength well and then I’m able to like get out of things or even apply you know, stuff that they just they just can’t they can’t counter because I’m stronger. So and I think a lot of like former CrossFit powerlifter weight lifter athletes and stuff like that really just they see oh, like here’s something now I can also use the strength that I have and it’s and it’s fun.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, when you’re a white belt in jujitsu if somebody tells you that you’re really strong it’s generally not meant as like a super compliment. It’s usually like you’re using way too much strength you need to calm down. You know, no one in the history of calm down has calmed down.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, well, you know, it’s funny because like, I’ll train with people that are new white belts and stuff and I’ll feel their strength. And I actually will tell him like, hey, like, I actually mean, this was a comment, like, You’re really strong. And that’s good. And then of course, like, let him know, like, hey, like, you know, there’s some technical things, but once you but I let him know like once you start getting this technique down like you’re gonna smash people because you already have this athleticism that’s going to be so helpful in this in this sport.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, absolutely. I actually had that conversation today with a new, a new, a newer white belt, who has some prior experience, but newer, it’s our academy. And I was like, look, I mean, he was like, way bigger than me. 17 I’m 45. So yeah, and I’m, I fancied myself fairly strong. Like, I’m, I’m very technical. But I was like, hey, you know, this is a great opportunity. And when you’re rolling with somebody who’s a lot smaller than you, like, I can’t match your bet. Like, my best strength can’t match your strength on and on my best day, right?

Steph Gaudreau
So this is a great time for you when you’re training with somebody who’s smaller, to work on things like maybe something technical, or something that’s a little bit less strength heavy, because you don’t need to use it on me, right? You’re already you’re already kind of like sitting on me and I can’t move. So it’s interesting to me that that’s part of the learning process. But I agree with you. I think that having that base of strength from CrossFit, I think there’s also something really interesting about jujitsu, in particular, that mirrors a lot of what happens to your mind in a CrossFit workout. Like a really hard Metcon you know, you’re in the middle of doing Fran or something, you’re not thinking about your bills, you’re not thinking about you know, all this other stuff in your life, you really have to focus on the task at hand, you’re about to snatch really heavy, you’re just your brain goes to the task at hand. And I think Jiu-Jitsu is really similar to that. So I wonder if that’s a piece of it as well. What do you think for you?

Alex Maclin
I agree with that, I think people should go to therapy, but yeah, the mat is also a place where it’s like, you know, I can go and you know, not worry about things that I’m that are on my mind, I can just because you have to be present, like you can’t be somewhere else. Somebody’s trying to choke you like, like, you’re not, you can’t be off worrying about other things you have to be in the moment and I totally agree, like when I was a weightlifting.

Alex Maclin
You competed in weightlifting, right?

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah.

Alex Maclin
You know how when, you go out there on the platform, and you just, you’re just in the zone at that point, like you put your hands on the bar and your body just does it. You don’t have to think about it, right. You’re just in this like super flow state. And I get that from rolling. And I think that that is something to that. Yeah. When I first started to train, I first started to do jujitsu, that’s something I picked up on. It’s like, oh, like this is I’m in this I’m in this flow state zone, especially now to like, when I’m more technical, like a lot of things like I don’t even think about what I’m doing. I just let my body kind of do whatever, and just react. And that is very cool feeling and it’s a little addicting. I think a lot of I think a lot of people, you know, who did strength sports or CrossFit or powerlifting and weightlifting, you know, keep seeking out that, that that feeling?

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And I also love what you said, and I’m going to mirror it back, if anybody kind of missed it. You know, we know the mental health benefit that comes with training with exercise, like it’s so powerful, but also like, therapeutics may be therapeutic and suddenly being the same as therapy aren’t necessarily the same thing. I just, I think that’s really important. And I know people are like, The gym is my therapy. And I’m like, it was like really therapeutic sometimes, but also, like, actual mental health therapy from a qualified professional is helpful as well. So, you know, just reminding folks that both of those are tools. And, I think that’s just important to mention with just the way the world is these days, but yeah, what got you into Jiu Jitsu, or like, why did you first start?

Alex Maclin
You know, maybe you remember Doug Larson, right?

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, he got his black belt recently..

Alex Maclin
Yeah, he did. Yeah. So you know I worked for him, as shrugged. And it was maybe like, 2017, he was moving back to Memphis. I was in Austin, at Paleo Effects and there was a Jiu-Jitsu tournament going on, I think 10 Planet was putting on or something like that. And I had no idea what was going on. But I know me, him, and Andy Galpin, were watching this Jiu-Jitsu tournament going on. And I was like, What is this? And we’re like, it’s jitsu and like, I don’t understand what this is. And so he was like, yeah, just come try it when I move back to Memphis and I was like, okay, yeah, I’ll check it out. I went to the winter school that he was gonna go train at, at the time was called Midtown Grappling Academy. That’s where I started and I’ve been doing it ever since. But actually, I almost quit. Jiu-Jitsu totally. I was doing it for maybe, I don’t know, three months, and I just got really fed up with it. And I felt like I was it. I wasn’t any good. I couldn’t figure it out.

Alex Maclin
The school is school, it was a different environment than it is. Now. There’s a lot of like guys in there that were like maybe like kind of the old school and just like just, you know, beat up on everybody. But also too, I think now looking back, like I was that strong dude, probably waist fazzy. And it was a you know, protection mechanism for themselves to like, not getting hurt. So I got crushed, like all the time, and I just I didn’t feel like I was any good at it. And I just didn’t feel like I could get any better at it. I got really frustrated and I almost quit. And then I did like an in house tournament and got completely destroyed. It was a no time limit submission only white belt tournament. It was brutal.

Steph Gaudreau
If you’re listening to this, you can’t see my face I just covered my mouth in shock.

Alex Maclin
Can you imagine what it was like? It was everything you could imagine it was just absolute chaos, like brutality. I had a match that went on for like, 20 minutes. Like it was insane. But yeah, and I think just because it was so difficult. It just kind of inspired me to like, work harder at it. Like I competed in weightlifting before. And I was really terrible wasn’t strong at it. And it just like made me want to get better at weightlifting. So this is kind of the same thing. And then I mean, ever since then it’s been been training. So I’ve been training for like six years and moved to Texas was training there. You know, after the pandemic, like, Texas, we opened up really quickly. And then you know, so it took a little bit of time off and just kept training through that.

Alex Maclin
Got my purple belt like a couple years ago. And yeah, so I’m thinking about getting into another competition here soon. So I know you are about to compete. But yeah, I haven’t competed since white belt. So we’ll see what happens.

Steph Gaudreau
And this is one of the things we connected on in direct messages on Instagram. We were talking about this. And yeah, there’s a competition coming up in April in the San Diego area. And I was like, Oh, I don’t know. And then I signed up for it. And it is also my first competition since white belt. I did one of our in house competitions back then. And my goal was to not just you’re talking about how the goal in this, this particular comp that you did was like submission only my goal was just don’t get submitted. That was my only goal.

Alex Maclin
Your talking about when you’re a white belt?

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, okay, don’t get submitted. I’m okay with losing on points. But don’t get submitted. So yeah, it’s coming up. And I think I sent you one of the puking emojis like I signed up, but we’ll see what happens.

Steph Gaudreau
So I would love to kind of shift to talking about some nutrition stuff. I’m sure we’ll we’ll kind of interweave the two, because, you know, much like what I talked about on this podcast, that the training and nutrition and recovery practices are also integrated. I mean, they work together as a system, right, you can train really well, only to a certain degree. But if your nutrition is like really struggling, you’re gonna end up feeling the effects of that, right? If your nutrition is great, but you’re you’re not getting the recovery that you need with the other things that you’re doing, then there’s going to be something that shows you the training.

Steph Gaudreau
So I would love to kind of dive into like dive dive into the pool here of some Jiu-Jitsu stuff with nutrition. And I really appreciate what you said. And I think a lot of the listeners are going to resonate because one of the biggest rebuttals I get with folks, when I’m talking about nutrition, and I’m using the term athletic or athlete, I get, well, I’m not, you know, I’m not an elite athlete, or I’m not a competitor or I’m not, you know, the top tier. So this stuff isn’t that important to me. And I love what you said earlier about, you know, this is for kind of the everyday person who go into jujitsu several times a week is a time commitment. It’s a financial commitment, right? Like, it’s wonderful.

Steph Gaudreau
But you’re also spending the time you’re putting yourself out there you are, you’re doing the thing you’re putting a lot of energy in so when you’re thinking about maybe not those top tier competitors who are going to be at pans this weekend or something but the people who are stepping on the mat that everyday folks, what are you know, a couple of the, and we can probably dive off into subtopics but what are a couple of the biggest sort of nutrition, mistakes, missteps pitfalls, you see with your people that they’re falling into with their nutrition and jujitsu, and like I guess we’ll kind of kick it out there.

Alex Maclin
Yeah. I think the biggest thing and this is where people are gonna be like, Look at me kind of cross eyed. Because the you know, there’ll be like, Well, I I think I’m eating enough, but there’s a difference between, I think eating enough calories sporadically, right? Like we can definitely over eat sometimes. And the thing is, is that that average is out and we average out and we can maintain or even some people have issues with like I keep gaining weight or whatnot. But there’s a difference between actually fueling yourself consistently versus the what people normal people do is they’ll, you know, they may eats very a different way during the week. And on the weekends, they eat completely different, or, you know, they get super busy in their lives and they’re like skipping meals or just not eating very balanced meals with enough protein and carbohydrates and good quality food.

Alex Maclin
It’s just all over the place. Right. And I think that that is really probably the biggest thing that I will see with just even just my general clients. I just don’t that don’t do jujitsu at all. But pretty much almost everybody I see has this issue if they’re if they’re having issues with nutrition and having enough energy and having enough fuel to do what they’re trying to do. Is this, this inconsistency with calories, and then inconsistency with getting enough nutrients and things like protein. Yeah, that’s like probably the biggest thing that I’ll see. And again, like I said, like people would be like, Oh, I’m eating enough food. I’m like, Are you though?

Alex Maclin
I mean, you are you are, but but you’re not doing that on a consistent basis. Again, like there’s a difference way, like, if you’re going to jujitsu and training, you know, let’s just say three times a week or whatever. And, you know, you’re training Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, right? And on those days, okay, maybe you’re eating a lot, because you just trained a lot, but then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and it’s a free for all, you know, you’re probably not eating that much or whatever. And then on the weekends, who knows what’s happening, you’re not, you know, you can maybe over consuming calories doing stuff like, you know, going out for tacos and margaritas and basket of chips and stuff like that. So again, it’s like, it’s not optimal fuelling and so then what’s going to happen is like, you’re not going to feel probably your best not perform your best when you’re actually trying to train because you bought it. You’re not giving your body consistently that fuel.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, absolutely. I see this as well. I call it eating chaos. You know, that’s a great chaos with within. It’s the schedule. It’s not having a plan. prepared, right. Like there’s so much that, that I’m sure that you see as well. And the the midday black hole is another one, you know, you’re just like, what happened? I fell into a Zoom meeting.

Alex Maclin
It’s five o’clock and I haven’t eaten all day.

Steph Gaudreau
For sure, yeah. And then you had to like get yourself off the desk and drive to Jiu-Jitsu. And now it’s, you know, maybe you do 5 pm or 6 pm in the evening, or maybe you’re a noon person. So, absolutely would would agree with that. I see that a ton. You know, I think that for our for the listeners here, one of the things that oftentimes comes up and even in jujitsu is the idea that, you know, sensitivity to weight is a big thing. And a lot of people get involved in jiu-jitsu for fitness, right for general exercise and kind of thinking of the general population. You know, how do you approach that as a coach, as a nutritionist who is working with your clients who have an activity they’re like, Yes, I’m doing this, I am going I’m lifting weights and going to the gym, I’m getting into Jiu-Jitsu, but they’re already like, a little bit sensitive to the idea of caloric intake, for example.

Steph Gaudreau
So what are maybe a couple of practical implementation tips that you work with, with your clients? Because I think there’d be a lot of people who are like, really afraid of even the word calories are there really, there’s it holds a lot of meaning and a lot of power for people. So how do you help to people to kind of flip the script? From like, a mindset perspective, that fueling is important and calories are a good thing? How do you work with that as a coach?

Alex Maclin
Yeah, I mean, it really depends on the person. Because I have a few clients that I can think of right now that I work with, you know, I have one guy, he’s a black belt, he’s trying to train to compete, and he’s got to make weight. So, you know, we’re tracking our we’re tracking his food, you know, we had had to quickly get him into that because he was like, oh, like, I want to, I want to compete and like three months, and I gotta make this way. So I’m like, Okay, well, we’re gonna need to track her food and track your calories. But he started to realize that when he started to track his calories, he actually was feeling better and more fueled, because he was eating more consistently, he started to learn the value of foods.

Alex Maclin
And I think that that is a big thing that, you know, I try to even if someone’s not tracking their food, and you know, an app is start to learn, like, hey, actually these foods that I’m eating These are foods that are going to actually help me feel better, they’re going to help me perform better, I’m going to have more energy. I think that is a that is really a big mindset shift of like not looking at things like, oh, this just has calories, or I’m gonna gain weight, but it’s like, actually, how is this food going to act going to help me kick some more ass right? And recover? Right and so that’s, that’s something I’ve really tried to like, help people see through the process of, you know, being getting more awareness about what they’re doing and what how they’re eating, and we don’t have to sit there and track calories and track macros.

Alex Maclin
I have another client, like we started with just like, hey, she does Jiu-Jitsu with me. And I’m like, Hey, we’re gonna we’re gonna take pictures of all your food, and we’re gonna see like, what it what are you choosing? What are you eating? How balanced are your meals? Meaning like, do they do your meals have a protein in it? Some kind of lean protein? Do your meals have some kind of vegetable? And a carbohydrate source? Like a like a, like a rice or potato? Or quinoa or whatever? And do they have some healthy fats? And then once she started to do that start to understand, it’s like, oh, if I eat this way, then I have a lot more energy. And I have a lot more ability to do all these things that I want to do.

Alex Maclin
Oh, okay. Now, this is how many eat and now we’ve progressed into tracking calories and seeing how can we optimize that for she because she does have weight loss goals? How can we make that now where we can have both of those things. And I think that’s really where people really, sometimes again, they always think like, oh, it’s only going to be about weight loss, but it really can be about both of those things, like performance and managing your weight.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, and when you think about it, much to your point, the behaviors that you have to engage in, right, for both of those, they oftentimes will line up pretty well, at least with the big rocks in most cases. And, yeah, I appreciate that. One of the questions we asked our social media, in stories, you know, what are your questions about jujitsu? And so the next question that there’s this first question that was submitted, I thought, this is a great jumping off point to talk a little bit more about some of the finer details.

Steph Gaudreau
So you mentioned like overall, fueling, making sure you have enough calories and not having chaotic eating, which of course, if you’re struggling with that stuff, work with a coach rates, really, really powerful to just kind of create a plan, get your priorities straight. But this question is, is BJJ a cardio workout? And I think a good question that comes off of this is that, you know, as you and I are working with people in terms of fueling and performance, and we’re always talking about like intense kind of training, sometimes BJJ falls into that gray area for people they’re like, well, it’s not a triathlon, and it’s not cycling or running. But it’s also not strength training, like, what is it in terms of energy systems, or like what kind of exercise so we want to tackle that for the listeners.

Alex Maclin
If you’ve done Jiu-Jitsu, even once, you know, you’re gonna be out of breath. I feel like I feel like my cardio is is the main limiter for me, like when I’m training, you know, like, I got scramble. I don’t know if people, you know, know the terminologies of what things are. But, you know, anytime I hit a scramble with somebody where we’re trying to fight for a position, man, it’s like, the thing I could probably compare it to is probably doing a set of thrusters, right, or doing a bunch of like, pull ups and and you’re just gassed after that, like, you’re you’re you got to take a you got to take a breather, so I don’t know. I mean, yeah, I mean, there’s definitely off obviously, elements of cardio in Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, what would you say? Would you would you say it’s more like, is it so mixed? Because it can slow down? You could speed up like it’s practically all the systems.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah. And I think that’s exactly what I would say it’s very, there’s a very wide spectrum of the types of intensities that you might experience in, in a jujitsu session. And just because you’re a white belt, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily going to be necessarily easier or harder than a black belt. We know that white belts will have they don’t have movement economy.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, they use a lot more strength and a lot more explosiveness.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, you know, and my friend Alex Sterner over at Electron Performance, they post this reel from time to time and it’s like the black belt is on his back and he takes these an open garden, he takes out his cell phone, and he’s just casually having a conversation. And the white belt is like running all around. Yeah, we’ve all been there. But you know, the higher belt rank you get typically the better movement economy you have so you’re spending less energy to kind of get into the positions that you need.

Steph Gaudreau
You know, you do build up efficiency. To some degree in in sort of the types of intensities of cardio that we see. So if we’re drilling, we’re tending to drill and we’re having great a low heart rate, for the most part, right? No one’s own to, unless we’re doing positional sparring or something, but hey, you’re just like going to work on a lightweight pass, we’re probably not going to be sweating and writhing around.

Alex Maclin
I sweat during drilling because I am just a very heavy sweater.

Steph Gaudreau
We’re gonna talk about hydration later because it is important. But then you do have those those roles, right, if you’re, if your gym was heavy on sparring, for example, you’re going to go six minutes. And you you might go with someone who’s a little bit spicy that day. And so you’ve got to, you’ve got to meet their energy, or maybe you’re an upper belt, and you’re gonna go with a lower belt, and you’re like, I’m just gonna manage this round, and you know, control the pace. And the ring the pace down a little bit. So I think it kind of hits all areas of that spectrum.

Steph Gaudreau
And if anybody gets into BJJ, and you wear something like a whoop, or I don’t know, an aura ring doesn’t really necessarily work for us in our sport, but you’re wearing something that heartrate monitor that gives you some of that data, like look at where your heart rate zones are throughout your, your class, and you’re probably going to see that there’s a little bit of everything. So yeah, I think that’s probably a good lead into the next question, which is everybody still is confused about carbs. And I love how you talk about this on your social media, you know, first sort of the average, again, you know, more casua/recreational Jiu-Jitsu athlete. You know, what, what is the role of carbohydrates for these types of Jiu-Jitsu players? Yeah. And, you know, where do they go from there in terms of making sense of it?

Alex Maclin
I mean, you know, kind of like what we talked about, like, there’s a vast range of spectrum of energy demands from jujitsu. But I mean, we do get into the high intensities. I mean, if you’re doing some very hard rounds, I don’t know how many rounds that you that you do in a training session. But um, I mean, we usually do like three or four. And, I mean, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it can get really intense, especially if it’s like an advanced class or comp class, right? And so, but even just for everyday, normal, people who are maybe not doing that kind of level, carbohydrate is going to be the main fuel source, right? Because again, we’re, we’re expending, we’re in that kind of like a glycolytic energy pathway, right?

Alex Maclin
Or, you know, for short bursts, we’re more in that foster genic. But mostly, we’re probably going to be hanging in that glycolytic range, right? And so people, a lot of people I think in Jiu-Jitsu are afraid of carbs, and just in general, people are afraid of carbs, alright. And I get it, like, if you if you have diabetes, and all kinds of stuff, that’s a different story. But, but carbs are not the enemy here, they’re not going to make you gain body fat people. That’s something I think a lot of people think. And the thing is, is that like carbs can be utilized to help fuel your training. Especially, you know, we haven’t talked about nutrient timing yet. But that’s something that a lot of people always ask me about is like, okay, when should I eat?

Alex Maclin
Or when should I take in carbohydrates? And I would say, like, probably the most important thing is, obviously, to make sure you’re getting enough calories over the course of the day. But once you get that down, right, yeah, I mean, like, the timing of your nutrients is, is helpful, it can be helpful. Like, if you are about to train, getting in some carbs, or for training can help you with that next training session. Getting in some carbs after training can help refuel the tank, if you just train really hard, like had a hard open mat, and you got to train in the next day, and you just emptied the tank, it’s gonna take a lot more energy, it’s if you don’t do that, it’s gonna be your next training session is probably gonna suffer because you’re not you don’t have that fuel back in and it takes a while like it, I think it takes about like 24 hours for your glycogen to start to replenish.

Alex Maclin
So again, like if you don’t get enough fuel in if you don’t replace those things that you lost, then yeah, your next training session is going to suffer and you’re going to wonder why I was like, Hannah felt so good. Yesterday, all must be the hammer in the nail type thing. Oh, it’s because you didn’t you didn’t eat brother. Totally. So yeah, or like we, we just talked about this before we turn on the mics. Like, they get the guys who are going super, super low carb and you just they just smell like, like, I smell your keto. Like you just like like what like why do you like Yeah, cuz you’re not getting enough carbohydrates. And then yeah, and I’ve talked to some of those guys. They’re like, Man, I just feel really spin. I’m like, Well, how many carbs you’re eating like, oh, no, I’m eating low carb. I’m not. I’m doing I’m fasting right now. And I’m like, Well, this is probably why you don’t feel all that great.

Steph Gaudreau
There is so much on the someone’s on the nutrient timing aspect. I think we can jump into you know, one note I’ll make here for the women. In, you know, obviously this podcast is mostly designed for women over 40 is, you know, I am a woman over 40 Who does Jiu-Jitsu. So, you know, I see a fair amount of this growing in popularity with our age group, which is cool. But there’s to your point there’s so much fear around even athletic women eating carbohydrates Yeah, right over 40. And there’s concerns with, you know, people’s bodies changing as the menopause transition continues, and, you know, certainly, you know, that stuff can be really jarring for folks.

Steph Gaudreau
But you know, there, we’re not necessarily also saying that you need the same amount of carbs as Michael Phelps would right, it’s all kind of variable, depending on, like you said, how many days a week you’re training or activity level, what your output is, like, like, maybe right now you’re sort of on the injured list, and you’re sort of, you know, taking some time off of sparring, and you’re doing more technique, and we’re sitting on the side and watching and maybe your energy needs have declined. And so that’s an area where you can, you know, reduce that or at least kind of meet your activity level better

Alex Maclin
Yeah, it’s highly individual for sure. People always ask me like, how many grams of carbs do you recommend for people and again, it just really depends on, you know, what’s your training demand? Even even to like, what’s your preference? Like, what’s your dietary preference, but, you know, for, for me, I a lot of carbs, I probably get, like, I’m going to cut right now. But if I’m at maintenance, I’m probably getting close, like 400 plus grams of carbs per day, and I weigh about, but I was at 180. That’s about what I was doing, like 180 pounds 400 to 450 grams of carbs per day.

Steph Gaudreau
A bunch of people just was like, start patting themselves like, Oh, my God, that again, it’s very variable to level.

Alex Maclin
Exactly, and I mean, I train a lot. So but as somebody who doesn’t train as much, they may not need as much, right. And so you kind of have to find what that place is for you. You know, I would say, if you’re training in Jiu-Jitsu, a good place probably to start is just like one gram per pound. I think that’s I think that’s really per pound of body weight. I think that’s generally a pretty, pretty easy place to start. And then you can adjust up or down based on that.

Steph Gaudreau
I would agree. Cool. So we covered carbohydrates. We’ll get to some of the timing stuff here in a couple of minutes. Can we talk about my favorite subject, which is protein? Yeah. Where do you see folks going maybe a little bit astray with some of their protein intake in terms of, you know, what they need for their activity, but also like the unique demands of Jiu-Jitsu?

Alex Maclin
Yeah. Well, I think in general, most people struggle with just getting enough, especially women I’ve seen you know, again, there’s a big range for protein intake. I think the current, the current range is like, between like what point seven grams to like, 1.2 grams. It’s been it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s basically what it’s been for years, right? The current recommendation for athletes, right? So it’s a big range. But I think a lot of people struggle, which is getting even even the bare minimum. And the thing is, is like, yeah, if we’re not getting enough protein, we’re gonna hinder our ability to recover because that is basically the building block of all of our tissues, like we’re constantly breaking down muscles also, breaking down tissues or body has repairs, we’re not getting enough protein, we’re probably gonna have issues with recovery.

Alex Maclin
And then aside from that, we go back to the weight management thing, if we’re talking about with like, just people in general and jujitsu. It’s like, yeah, if we don’t eat enough protein, we’re probably going to be super, super hungry, and things like that, and maybe overeat on calories from carbs and fats, which, you know, are very, sometimes a lot easier to over-consume. I think that’s where people will think, again, like carbs are bad, because it’s like, oh, they’re gonna make you fat. That’s not the case. It’s just really, sometimes can be really easy to overeat them. And so, I mean, you get an eight-ounce piece of chicken breasts, like you’re gonna like, and like, you know, and but that’s but that’s, that’s also possible people. It’s like, people struggle with the protein because they’re like, I don’t want to eat it.

Alex Maclin
I just don’t want to eat so much meat. So I think a lot of people struggle with that. But, yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s definitely ways around that too. Like, you know, people don’t really understand they can utilize other forms of protein, you know, plant based options, or, you know, I got on my Instagram the other day and talked about shakes and stuff like that protein powders, protein supplements, and people are like, because I’ve always heard you know, from my clients, it’s like, Oh, you shouldn’t eat more than drink more than one shake now. Okay, yeah. Want to get Whole Foods? For sure. But you know, if you’re an athlete and you’re struggling to get protein, maybe because you’re training a lot, it’s really difficult to eat. I don’t know, do you find it? Do you find it difficult sometimes after training to eat? Like, do you have like low appetite?

Steph Gaudreau
Basically, I don’t tend to get a super low appetite. I’m not one of those people, but I do know yeah, people are like, I don’t come near me. Right. It’s a bit of a because the sympathetic nervous system is so on. It just is not kind of like rest and digest time. It’s more of like, let’s just key up for some fuck around find out. So, there are people who are like, I’m even doing two days and you’re just like, No, I don’t want to eat.

Alex Maclin
I’m definitely one of those people that are like, if I train really hard and Jiu-Jitsu, it’s hard for me to eat after training because I’m so amped up. And so a lot of times, I will do an easier, you know, liquid type shake type thing or a smoothie type thing like to get in the protein. But yeah, protein is super important. How much protein do you try to eat?

Steph Gaudreau
I get about 150 grams a day. Okay. And that’s with a good scoop and a half to two scoops of protein.

Alex Maclin
So you supplement as well.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, cuz without that, right, what’s 22 grams a scoop ish so that’s about 40-45 grams of that day is coming from protein supplementation, which now that I’m especially ramping up my Jiu-Jitsu training intensity. I mean, to your point, I actually took it as a side story, I set pre-workout on, like, last weekend. And I never don’t take pre-workout. Usually a workout at noon. I’ve already had a couple of cups of coffee, like, you know, I’m caffeinated. I feel fine. But I was like, oh, let’s try this. Try this pre-workout that I was given at an event. I was eating life it was it was too much for me.

Steph Gaudreau
So I came back came home that day. And it was kind of to your point what you said I ended up making a frozen banana and in protein, you know, sort of frozen smoothie and just drag that and then after that was settled, had my next meal. But yeah, for me, I have to get something to help me supplement because it’s, it’s really tough. It’s really tough. And I think people have been sold this idea that you know, you’re you’re cheating or it’s bad. Or you know, if you’re going to work out once a week, you might not need that your protein, knees are maybe a little bit lower. But yes, do what you need to do.

Alex Maclin
And especially if you’re combining jujitsu with strength training? I mean, if you’re strength training as well, you absolutely need to make sure you’re getting enough protein, you know, obviously to maintain and build muscle mass, which, you know, I think a lot of jujitsu people. I don’t know. I feel like a lot more jujitsu. People are starting to get back getting into strength training. I think they’re starting to see the value and more people are talking about like, actually, you mentioned Electrum. Is that? Yeah, what’s his name?

Steph Gaudreau
Alex Sterner.

Alex Maclin
I follow him. But yeah, he posts some really good content on like, strength training for jujitsu athletes, which I think a lot of people are starting to recognize the benefits, like, you know, for joint health for injury prevention, not just for performance. But yeah, if you’re going to be combining strength training with something like jujitsu, yeah, you absolutely need to make sure you’re eating enough protein.

Steph Gaudreau
100%. And when you were talking about earlier strength, you know, we’re talking about being strong in Jiu-Jitsu. It’s definitely important for those reasons, right? Injury Prevention, and keeping your joints as stable and strong as possible. joint injuries are actually pretty common in this sport, and sometimes freak things happen. You got hurt, like, you know,

Alex Maclin
Crack a few fingers.

Steph Gaudreau
Your fingers, yeah.

Alex Maclin
Oh, my God. Things they don’t tell you when you start Jiu-Jitsu.

Steph Gaudreau
To you’re to your point, you’re gonna have a little bit more wear and tear. And so making sure that you can recover and rebuild those tissues and keep on top of that is really important. So let’s come in and talk a little bit about timing. As we already mentioned, you know, fasting seems to still have a hold in this sport. And I’m used to coming from…I don’t know, I really don’t understand.

Steph Gaudreau
And I’ve had this conversation with many people because I typically train at noon. When I first started, I trained a lot at 7 am. But over the years just started gravitating more to the new class because there were more people to roll this. More women would show up to the noon classes as well. So I frequently have this conversation with people and I am not actually super forthcoming with people at the academy. I don’t walk up to them and just go I’m a sports nutritionist. I’m a strength coach, like, I don’t tell them my Instagram, I just sort of let people find out by osmosis if they do

Alex Maclin
I’m the same way.

Steph Gaudreau
So it’s funny what people will say, you know, for example, somebody was saying, this is a couple of years ago at this point, but they were like, I can’t figure out why I’m so tired at this class all the time. And I said something like, Well, what did you have for breakfast? And they were like, I don’t eat breakfast. And I was like, Oh, hold my root beer here we go. But um, yeah, like, maybe we can talk about the fasting piece. And like, why fasting is challenging, especially for athletic folks, in many cases. And then also, like, let’s kind of move into some of the timing pieces to know like, let’s kind of go back to go back to our our friends who aren’t eating for a half, half or more of the day.

Alex Maclin
It’s funny because I was at my school the other day and I was talking to a guy, and he actually brought up fasting, because he asked, because I’m saying, Wait, I’m like, I don’t go around and like, tell like everybody, like, Hi, I’m interested in this or whatever. I definitely just like, they follow me. And I’m like, so you’re a nutritionist? And let me ask you about this. They were like, What do you think about fasting? I’m like, Well, first of all, I hate these questions.

Alex Maclin
I hate those questions. General open-ended, like what specifically do you want to know about fasting? But anyway, he had told me he had lost 40 pounds doing intermittent fasting. And I was like, oh, okay, that’s great. And he was like, Well, what do you think about it, in terms of, I guess, for, you know, a weight loss or whatever it’s like, well, it’s not really required for weight loss, like you don’t have to intermittent fast.

Alex Maclin
To lose weight, you have to create a calorie deficit and energy deficit, which means you have to take in fewer calories than you’re expending. You can do that by intermittent fasting. Because, you know, if you let’s just say you eat three meals a day, and you cut out two of them, you only eat once a day, bless. Then you and you don’t change anything about your other meals, right? If you don’t change anything about that one meal that you eat, then yeah, you’ve just cut out a large chunk of your caloric intake on average, right? And if you do that consistently enough, then yeah, you will lose weight, especially if you keep your activity the same. Right.

Alex Maclin
But it’s not necessary. You can lose body fat without intermittent fasting without fasting at all. He was I think still as good as mine. It’s like, I don’t know. But that is what that is what it is. And you know, some people may fast for other reasons. You know, they may fast for digestive reasons they may fast for there’s research being done on fasting. It’s mixed. But yeah, there might be some benefits to it. But at the end of the day, if we’re talking about weight loss, it doesn’t, it’s not necessary. Now, from a performance standpoint, it’s not something I would recommend, especially if you train something like Jiu-Jitsu, right? Because if you think about it, if you’re fast, let’s just say like your friends, they’re like, skips breakfast, and where they were going, like the noon class or whatever.

Steph Gaudreau
For an hour and a half, competition-level class.

Alex Maclin
Okay, like you already fasted at night, when you slept, you slept for seven, eight hours, whatever, you wake up in the morning, and you now so now, it’s been like 12 hours, maybe 16 hours before you’ve eaten anything at all. You’re gonna go on that training session, and you’re not going to be fueled. And your performance is going to suffer, you’re not going to have any energy. And so yeah, I mean, it’s not something I would necessarily recommend you can you can, you know, eat at levels that you need to eat without fast, and you just need to make sure that you’re getting the proper amount of calories per day.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, I would agree. And I also make a note, side note, this is, in particular, I think, really relevant for women, who I find again, tend to struggle and to mirror what you said about struggling with protein intake. Right? Like that’s just right off the bat, I would say 80 to 90% of the women that I work with, when they come in are not even meeting a protein minimum RDA, right? Yeah. Yeah, there’s somewhere between the RDA and kind of like the bottom level, where we would want to see like that point seven or point eight.

Steph Gaudreau
So like, our first goal is to kind of get them there, the fewer eating opportunities you have in your day, the harder it’s going to be to actually meet this new higher threshold of protein intake that you are shooting for. You know, and to your point, not everybody needs to reduce caloric intake. A lot of the people that I work with are coming off of years and years of really pushing the boat out with chronic dieting and things of that nature. So in some cases, it’s about restoring caloric intake slowly and methodically over time.

Steph Gaudreau
But, yeah, it’s like you said there’s kind of there. Maybe some benefits coming out as studies, you know, we don’t know where studies in science is gonna go this. But, you know, the other reason people oftentimes bring up with fasting is a toughie, G and it’s like, yeah, to get a tapa G from exercise. You’re exercising, you’re already getting that in your day, and that’s great.

Alex Maclin
And I don’t think that there’s a whole lot of like the, you know, the daily 16 hours, I don’t think that that actually does a whole lot. From what I understand. There may be some benefits to the longer fasts. But again, why would you do that if you’re like something like, why would you fast for like 24 or 48 hours, because the thing is, I tell my clients this all the time, it’s like what we eat today, like today, on Friday, what we’re eating is for the next day like our bodies are largely digesting and breaking stuff down. Yeah, granted, like, you know, if we get some quick carbohydrates before a training session, our bodies can utilize that. But for the most part, if like, we eat this big meal, like right before we go train, our bodies are still digesting that.

Alex Maclin
So it’s not something that we’re going to immediately utilize we’re utilizing your body is going to utilize the stored energy that it already has stored substrates that already has and break those down first. So if we’re not eating enough the previous day, yeah, you’re gonna feel like shit the next day. Absolutely. And we, you’ll see that and I guarantee if people are listening to this they’d be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yes. Oh, I didn’t eat and I didn’t eat that much. And then I felt like crap. And then my clients will do this. They’ll be like, oh, yeah, I didn’t eat that much. They’ll be terrible. Then I went slammed a bunch of pizza later on, or whatever. And then they like, I felt awesome the next day. And I’m like, Well, yeah, that’s what’s gonna happen. Like, yeah, if you eat Yeah, there was Yeah, calories help. But if again, it’s like you, that’s where it becomes really important.

Alex Maclin
Like I was saying earlier in the podcast was like, we need to make sure that we’re eating consistently daily, like that is going to allow you to have consistent performance. And we want we don’t want to be limited by the fact that we just didn’t eat like our energy, we want to be limited by our skill level by the fact that like, Okay, this guy I’m rolling against is really a lot better than me. And I need to step my game up. But it’s not because I didn’t have the energy to keep up with him or her. Like, it’s because it’s because they’re just better.

Steph Gaudreau
Absolutely. Would 100 agree. Yeah, so you know, like, eat some food, please don’t put yourself in these big periods of within the day energy deficit. You know, I think there could be some use cases where people who are rolling into their early you know, they’re like rolling till 738 o’clock at night, maybe they eat, they’re gonna use small post-workout, and then they go to bed, like, we know, when you see a hungry man dinner, you know, to an hour or two before you’re gonna try to go to bed and then your sleep is kind of all over the place. So you know, there might be some shifting around there. But yeah, like, get some get some energy on board. And as you said, think about the bigger picture as well. Let’s say somebody as part of that, that Dawn crew, those Dawnbreakers out there.

Alex Maclin
Early risers? Yeah. 5 am.

Steph Gaudreau
You 5 am absolute rapscallions.

Alex Maclin
I used to train at 5 am. Well, yeah, actually back in Memphis, about 6 am. Yeah, I used to do it. But now I don’t do the 6 am here anymore.

Steph Gaudreau
The only thing I want to be laying on at 6 am is my bed.

Alex Maclin
It is tough. And there’s a special type of person who’s able to get up that early and fight people.

Steph Gaudreau
If you are one of those people that needs to get up early and kick some ass at your 6 am class. How do you recommend your early morning people approach their nutrition with that kind of 10-nutrient timing, what special considerations? And I know, we can’t give people every single nuance here on this. That’s why they need to work with a coach. But what are some of the things that they did?

Alex Maclin
So, yeah, the biggest thing I’ll hear is, that people just don’t like to eat that early in the morning. And it’s difficult and they’re about to go train and they wake like, like, for me when I was turning 6 am I literally 5:45 am, I’m waking up. I’m not like, I live close to the gym, so I could walk there. But like, even when I had to drive, I’m not wake up two hours beforehand to eat. So what I would suggest is that you, I would focus on the night before again, because things have to break down, right? So if we’re eating, we’re eating a solid meal the night before with enough carbohydrates, protein, and fats and then we’ll have some energy for the next day.

Alex Maclin
And especially if that whole day we’ve eaten enough calories. So you know if your caloric maintenance is 2500 calories and you were tracking Your food and you’re hitting that 2500 And that’s maintenance for you, and you’re getting a nice, you know, solid meal at night for you. And in the evening, I think you should be okay. To just as long as things I think you can train fast, right, and be okay. Now I would, I would really suggest getting in some food afterward though. So after I train, you come home, I would definitely have some protein, have some carbohydrates 100%, and then eat as regular for the rest of the day.

Alex Maclin
If you’re a person that can tolerate a little bit of food before you train something quick, something easily digestible. I like really easy things like a banana or applesauce or something like that something that’s going to be really super easy and not going to mess up your digestion at all cause you have an accident on the map. Nobody wants that. No, no, no. No. As far as protein, you might be okay with just you don’t you don’t necessarily have to do that and there’s very few things that you could do that early morning you could probably do a protein shake and be okay with that. But I would suggest something like easy carbs like even something like maybe cereal but keep it small keep it light so you just don’t you know get any kind of issues on the mat.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, I like if I have to go out I usually run in the morning so you know like a rice cake or jelly out of sometimes don’t even have oh I usually I have my protein shake in the morning but maybe and half of it and save you know drink the other half later and then add whatever meal I’m going to have so yeah, I know for a lot of my women especially over 40 they just tend to find that they’re like you know really conditioned to fasted cardio but then they find that if they are pushing the pace quite a bit whether it’s you know training to support their you sue right so they are lifting or they’re doing some kind of high intensity cardio or something in the morning they tend to feel a lot better with just with a little bit of something but like you said kind of have to experiment and find out what works well for your body and like is palatable and tasty for you like not everybody wants to eat a hard boiled egg and some other stuff.

Alex Maclin
You can also do something during your training, I like liquid IV for that particular purpose. Electrolytes plus carbohydrates. Or you can make your own liquid IV is definitely expensive, but you could get in some liquid carbs during training and let’s just say take a little water break or whatever just sit on it while you’re training that can help get you through where you can make a little protein shake as well and like especially if you have it just depends obviously how long your training session you are if you’re only training for like maybe an hour you got one class but I’ve been to some schools like a OJ where they train all morning like 6 am to like nine like they’re training for three hours this morning. So if you’re in that camp like where you have a lot of training in the morning then you definitely want to have something intro like you know take a little break get some water and then have some electrolytes some carbohydrates in there and maybe have like a little snack with you to something easily digestible that you can get in between.

Steph Gaudreau
Those little applesauce squeeze things. Those sorts of things are great because they’re just like you just pop the top.

Alex Maclin
Those Fuel for Firefire, have you ever had those?

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, they’re tasty. Another one that I’ve used is First Form, they have an intro workout that also carbohydrate, electrolyte, and BCAAs in it, which, you know, whatever. But that one is, is one that oftentimes used when our training sessions are fairly long or we’re doing a lot around like Saturdays. Yeah, you know, we’re in there. We’re doing sometimes eight rounds. These eight rounds or six minutes. So you know, not every round for every person is going to be balls to the wall, like you know, level 10 out of 10 but it the pace can definitely be pretty high and you can be pretty tired and pretty wiped out after that. So let’s see. You’re a nooner like me, I’m a noon person. Any considerations you would tell your clients they’re like things to think about?

Alex Maclin
I mean, I think if you’re training the rest of the day, like obviously you want to eat breakfast. And then I tried it I try it so I go and train at around usually around noon, do some boxing. Eleven is when I start doing Jiu-Jitsu and then I there’s a boxing class after so I’m actually training for like two hours sometimes. And yeah, so I’ll usually have breakfast in the morning and then I’ll do a little pre-workout snack like before that usually about an hour and it’s something small.

Alex Maclin
I know people probably like this guy is into nutrition but I love Uncrustables and that is why they’re so good. That is why like go to, we’re about to train, I do like a long crosstable and a protein shake. And that’s me, that’s my pre-pre-training snack. And I’ll do that and then I’ll train. And I’ll have I’m usually I sweat a lot, sweat a lot. And so I’ll come home and hydrate. I’ll do some like Element or Liquid IV or Numa, or anything like that, just to get some fluids and maybe some electrolytes, and then I’ll have my post-workout meal, which was just standard protein-carbohydrate vegetable for that.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah. Similar. I’m gonna like stack for me, because I also train at noon, and oftentimes, like, a couple of times a week, I’m training Jiu-Jitsu. So it’s an hour and a half, and then I’m going into my lifting. Yes. Which I know some people don’t think is ideal. But for me right now in my life, and the season I’m in my strength training is supporting my jujitsu as you know, and being as strong as I can be while I’m doing jujitsu. So it’s, you know, maybe if Jiu-Jitsu was like a fun side thing I did once in a while, I would live first, but it just also happens to work with my schedule. So yeah, that’s a longer trading session for me. And I’m gonna go and lift for an hour and a half in many cases after that. So I will bring something to eat during and kind of sip on or munch on here and there and then I’ll have my actual real lunch after that.

Alex Maclin
Do you lift right after Jiu-Jitsu? Like right after.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah.

Alex Maclin
Oh, wow. Okay.

Steph Gaudreau
And it is a great warm-up. I don’t have to warm up. Yeah, warming up. I’m not doing any dynamic mobility or anything like that.

Alex Maclin
That’s impressive. I need at least a couple of hours for sure. So yeah, I’ll always lift around the evening time. And then train again. So I train a lot.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, so you’re doing two days like Alex, you know, you know, not even your, your, your lifting session could be considered a second session. Yeah. But also, you know, you’re doing two jujitsu sessions. Like if you’re doing two days, like you have, you have got to be on your shit. Like, you cannot afford to not eat in between not eat afterward, especially if you’re, my husband used to work for Apple. And so they used to have they used to schedule people was really mean, they would schedule them to close at 10 and then open again in the morning. And so they’d call it clothespins.

Steph Gaudreau
If you had a clear open, I think about that, if you’re gonna close out the gym, you’re gonna go to, you know, evening class rather than a 7:30 pm – 8 o’clock and then you’re gonna go in the morning again, your best eat some you got to do what you can to get something in your face. Between those two things. You know, you’ll probably be pretty flat in the morning, especially if you went pretty hard. Alright, or evening, folks. Anything you would mention for them?

Alex Maclin
Um, I think it’s pretty much the same as everything else. Just, you know, you can time your meals again. I would get something about an hour to an hour and a half, primarily carbohydrates and protein. Because again, it’s like if you’re going to be an evening class, it’s going to you know, you have lunch, and then you know, even what is with jujitsu also to like starting class at like seven o’clock at night. Like I understand. All like all martial arts. Like why are we? This is almost close to bedtime here. Yeah. But um, yeah, so like, you have lunch, maybe mid-day. And then, you know, if you have a snack around, like another meal, like three, you know, there’s still you may not go to jujitsu until like, six right? So, yeah, you gotta be it’s gotta be careful with like, the timing of that. But I would say anything, you know, two hours or so within that window?

Steph Gaudreau
I think the evening is an interesting one because people assume they’re like, Yeah, I’ve had an opportunity to eat a couple of meals ahead of that, but you were on that Zoom meeting, and it got away from you and you didn’t eat lunch? Yeah. And now you haven’t eaten anything since breakfast? You’re about to go into 6 pm Jiu-Jitsu which is at the time you would eat dinner. So you’ve got to think cleverly there about what are you going to have on hand snacks, etc. What do you need afterward?

Alex Maclin
I think that’s like planning comes in involved too. It’s like afterward because you know, I get out of the gym at eight o’clock. Very have something easy are already ready. Because I’m telling you after training, the last thing I want to do is cook anything I do not want to cook so you better have some food ready.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, totally. Totally would agree. One thing you’ve you’ve alluded to a couple of times, but hydration and you already admitted to being a heavy sweater. You know, we’ve all had that people who will sweat on us accidentally, you know, or the sweat is dripping in your mouth. Let it drop on my face. Yeah, so um, you know, obviously temperature, you know, humidity, those sorts of things, and then your own personal chemistry and makeup but anything you’d like to come kind of toss your people’s way in terms of that.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, I mean, again, hydration is one of those things super individual. But, you know, if you’re a heavy sweater, and you’re turning a lot, especially doing jujitsu, I mean, we all know, like, you’re wearing the ghee, or even just NoGi like, you’re just, there’s just sweat everywhere. You’re gonna need to replace those. The biggest thing I see people like I was training with a guy yesterday, and I don’t know, he’s a lot better than me. But he cramp taps, right, so it’s like, so again, it affects your performance, you get a cramp. And then you have to like you have to stop the roll, right, or you open yourself up to injury.

Alex Maclin
So you don’t want to be dehydrated while you’re training. I personally like to hydrate beforehand, so that pre-workout me, I didn’t mention this, but I will get fluids in and I will get some electrolytes, like some elements. I’ll do about 20 ounces of water plus an element in there to pre-pre-game it right. And then I actually I’m weird because, during training, I don’t really drink that much water. Unless, unless it’s like a really hard long, maybe open mat, then I’ll drink some water and stuff and stuff in between, I’ll have like a, like a liquid IV something with like a little bit more carbs in it or another element. It’s after when I get home, that’s when I’ll try to really replace it, all the fluids are lost. Like I’ve weighed myself, and I’ve lost like six or seven pounds. It’s insane.

Alex Maclin
Like, I sweat so much. And that’s, you know, over a course of like, two hours, three hours of training. But yeah, I sweat a lot. And so I’m replacing those electrolytes, with fluids, you know, with the supplements, putting salt on my food. I know, people were like, Oh, my God, salt is bad. But like if you’re, you’re an active person doing that much activity and sweating that much like you need to replace that. Otherwise, you’re going to cramp like later and I’ve had, you know, where I’m sitting at my desk, you know, working on stuff, and I hold my heel to my butt too quick. And then I get that hamstring cramp. And it’s the worst. It’s so bad.

Steph Gaudreau
Recently, I had a calf cramp. I don’t know what it was, but I was on the bottom half guard. And I was probably trying to like, do something like flex my foot, keep it real tight. Because then people don’t realize that you just see we do a lot of isometric holding Yes. And, you know, it’s obviously very dynamic. But we also hold a lot of positions. So like, we’ll hold frames, or we’ll, you know, flex out at the knee and like, essentially, kick the leg back and hold our opponent’s leg or something like that. And so I got this calf cramp. And I was like, shit. This is not good. And it was sore for a few days. So yeah, I think that was definitely one where, you know, I wasn’t as up on like, I was training more right training higher, with higher intensities.

Steph Gaudreau
I was slacking a little bit on my hydration also mentioned to hear for the women listening to this podcast a couple of things. If you’re in the luteal phase of your menstrual cycle, your body temperature will be higher by as much as a half to a full degree. So the heat will feel hotter. You may also sweat a little bit more or just feel hotter. So hydration can really help with that. You know, women tend to sweat later and sort of less than our male counterparts. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need to hydrate. And if you are one of these athletes like myself, who’s kind of like edging up to your mid-40s Or you’re in perimenopause already, or you’re postmenopausal.

Steph Gaudreau
Maybe you’re one of those, like Master Seven people, out worlds, you know, like you’re in menopause, there can be some challenges with hydration, like you may not actually feel super thirsty until you’re, you know, you’re well dehydrated. So you may not necessarily need to drink to a schedule, but you just need to be more cognizant of what’s going on with you know, depending on on which category you fall into. So, I definitely notice, like even now, the last few days, I’m like, why does it feel so hot? Like, yeah, like it’s not fine. So, you know, keeping an eye on that stuff, too, I think is really important. You know, I think there’s this idea that like, You’re tough, you’re super tough if you don’t drink anything or eat anything and maybe that has part of like, why it’s kind of part of Jiu-Jitsu culture.

Alex Maclin
I’ve heard of some schools that don’t let you just like you like comp classes and stuff like that. Like you’re not allowed to drink water. Like no water breaks.

Steph Gaudreau
That’s intense, interesting.

Alex Maclin
I know, eye roll.

Steph Gaudreau
I’m not gonna cosign that but…

Alex Maclin
Yeah, I don’t know what that does. But you know, it’s like some of that old-school mentality but it’s not helpful. I don’t think so. Mentally helpful, but physically not helpful.

Steph Gaudreau
Any last little thing that you want to talk about?

Alex Maclin
I was gonna ask you, this might be TMI, to talk about but like from a hydration standpoint, I’ve actually noticed that when I’m more dehydrated, my digestion suffers.

Steph Gaudreau
Oh, yes.

Alex Maclin
Oh, you’ve noticed that?

Steph Gaudreau
Well, for me personally, not as much but with my clients. So almost the women I work with are over 40, usually between the ages of 45 and early 50s. And, you know, one of the interesting things about the decline of estrogen after menopause is the risk of developing things like chronic constipation.

Alex Maclin
Yep, that’s what I was gonna say.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, so transit time, can slow down estrogen has, you know, we have estrogen receptors all over the body, including in the gut. And so there can be some huge challenges in terms of constipation. And if you consider things like your agenda, Terry symptoms, things like prolapse, any kind of straining that we’re doing, especially if somebody doesn’t have a strong pelvic floor, that can be straining chronically with passing bowel movements can be such a, like a contributor for a lot of women to help with floor issues. So gotta get that fiber. Gotta get that water and keep up your hydration, it’s absolutely critical.

Alex Maclin
I definitely noticed like when I’m, if I’m training a lot more than I’m not, and I’m not being as cognizant of my hydration, because, um, I admit, I’m not the best at it sometimes. And, yeah, I’ll definitely notice like, more constipation, and then like, the bloating, like, that’s something I, you know, we probably as coaches we see all the time, like, Oh, I’m feeling so bloated and stuff like that. And it’s like, Yeah, I mean, drink some more water. And, you know, a lot of times what I noticed, if I’m not hydrated enough, I’ll have a lot more bloating, I start drinking more water. And it’s like, I’m wearing Gucci. It’s really how much you’re training and you’re sweating a lot. Like, it’s so hard to stay on top of. But you have to stay on top of that.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, like, you know, what are you doing in the hours afterward? I think there’s a tendency, especially for people that train earlier in the day, maybe two, maybe even if you train at night, maybe you get home, it’s like, you’ve got kids and the kids are like wanting to spend the last hour or two with you before they have to go to bed, or you just haven’t seen your partner or you just have a bunch of chores to do because you live alone. And no one else can do the chores other than you.

Alex Maclin
Nobody tells you the laundry that you’re doing, it’s like constant.

Steph Gaudreau
Alex doesn’t even, it’s intense. But you know, even when with people who go to work afterward, or they’re going to come home and run the household, or whatever it is, you know, there’s this tendency to kind of like we turn off our brain a little bit with like, we’re like the training is done. I think you’ve done a beautiful job on this episode, bringing up how it’s also what we do around our training. And this is what I’m also trying to get across to people like you might not be competing in jiu-jitsu might not be your job. It’s not how you make your living.

Steph Gaudreau
But if you want to train, you know, consistently and give it your all and whatever is serious for you. It has to you have to put a little bit of thought, strategy and planning behind what you’re doing outside of that. Because if you come home from your morning session, and you’re like, I didn’t really do anything until you know, two o’clock and it was this tiny little snack and I forgot to drink water and the next day is not gonna feel good. Or the day after that, probably.

Alex Maclin
You’re not going to progress as you probably could, you know. I think a lot of people, Jiu-Jitsu is very hard and we’d love to get better at it and stuff like that. And I mean, it takes time, obviously, but I think a lot of people leave a lot on the table in terms of their, you know, ability to progress in the sport just by simply not doing these things.

Steph Gaudreau
Absolutely. I thought it would be fun to ask you a couple of rapid-fire questions.

Alex Maclin
I’m terrible at these.

Steph Gaudreau
All right, favorite take-down?

Alex Maclin
Single Leg. For sure.

Steph Gaudreau
Okay. Do you want to elaborate on it?

Alex Maclin
I’m a very take-down averse, I’m a guard puller. But the single leg is, I think, the safest takedown for a guard puller.

Steph Gaudreau
Interesting. Interesting

Alex Maclin
Or a foot sweep.

Steph Gaudreau
I would say an ankle pick is one of my favorites because it’s kind of low-risk. Armbar or triangle?

Alex Maclin
Armbars. I’m a big breaking limbs type of person.

Steph Gaudreau
All right. All right. Open guard or closed guard?

Alex Maclin
Open guard. I play Spider Guard…That’s why my hands are all jacked up.

Steph Gaudreau
One thing you wish you could go back and tell yourself as a white belt.

Alex Maclin
Oh, that one is tough. I think I think the biggest thing is to learn concepts of Jiu-Jitsu rather than worry about like, learning all these moves. Because I think that was the biggest overwhelming part of me. I don’t remember the steps like, and of course, like, you got to learn the steps. It’s like you learn the steps over time. But I think learning concepts like what is what constitutes a frame, what constitutes a guard, what constitutes, like, what’s a hip escape? Like, I didn’t, I don’t think I learned how to escape properly until a blue belt…

Steph Gaudreau
I heard a story and I won’t name names about academies or anything like that. But I heard a story that somebody was that a belt test watching a belt test. And the person was testing for their purple belt and they didn’t know how to break fall in stand-up.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, I mean, those are those are some things I think I wish I I think I would have fared better and be better technically. If I just focus more on concepts rather than trying to learn individual moves. Obviously and honestly to calm the fuck down. I tell us people I’m rolling with to and when I see the FAS come out in people I’m like, Hey, brother, just chill. I wish I would have heard that. It’s all just like, just calm down.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, you’re not gonna get your your your black belt tomorrow.

Alex Maclin
Yeah.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, and I think like, that’s such a, that’s such a wise lesson is the concept that like, for the average person, you know, is training an average amount and isn’t like some incredibly talented, gifted, like just phenom at this sport. You know, you’re looking at maybe seven 8-10 years before you get a black belt and a lot of cases, like it’s truly the journey, and you’re gonna have days where you’re like, Well, I fueled well, and I hydrated and I was still the nail and like, at worst, it was a workout today. And like, maybe I learned something. Yeah, you’re gonna have a lot of those days. And if you let the ‘I have to be the best every day’, you know, driving everything you’re doing you’re probably not going to last very long.

Alex Maclin
I think when I started not caring. I mean, I care, obviously, about my training, but I stopped caring so much about, you know, oh, did this person tap me or did they win this round? First of all, it’s training, but also too, it’s like, I stopped caring about it and you just ‘Oh, that’s interesting’, I learned some things and keep them moving.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah. You either win or you learn. And there’s definitely a lot to be learned by when you win and there’s oftentimes way more to learn when you don’t win.

Alex Maclin
What’s your favorite takedown?

Steph Gaudreau
You’re saying as a guard puller, which I raise my hands in support there. Um, I do pull guard fairly frequently. I’ve been working on putting the collar drag game because my collar drag is pretty intense.

Alex Maclin
Yeah because you’re strong as hell.

Steph Gaudreau
I don’t want to hurt anyone at the gym, you know.

Alex Maclin
Yeah, obviously, your training partners, but hey, will you go out there and beat the shit out of it.

Steph Gaudreau
I think I’ve been playing around more with the collar drag, and ankle pick combo because again, I feel like those are those kind of go together depending on how somebody is going to move. And the ankle pick I think is like so again, it’s so low risk. And I’m 45 and I know I’m strong. And I know I’ve put in the work but I still don’t want to get hurt doing something dumb. So you know what I’m saying?

Alex Maclin
Have you had any major injuries? Like, ACL or knee or anything like that?

Steph Gaudreau
Knock on wood. No, I did have a serious MCL sprain back in my CrossFit days. And probably about five years ago, this is another lesson, I was trying to decode and kept insisting and insisting and insisting and the person wasn’t letting go and wasn’t letting up and I kept insisting and I kind of popped my knee.

Steph Gaudreau
So that wasn’t as serious at that time. But obviously, that knee is a little bit compromised. Luckily knock on wood, like I’ve been fairly good. Like my, probably my worst thing was that I dislocated the end of my big toe. freakishly that was great. It was like sticking up for, you know, at a 90-degree angle off the bat. So that was great. And, yeah, so, you know, lots of aches and pains here and there, but knocking on wood like, yeah, no, nothing bad.

Alex Maclin
I think it’s because you have already a good base of strength. Like, it helps a lot like you can your body can just tolerate a lot more. Because you are strong.

Steph Gaudreau
And I’ve also learned to be more, to your point, I’ve learned to try to put myself in less risky positions, and that doesn’t mean that bad things are gonna happen. Or it could be a free thing that couldn’t happen. But I like to tell the wife thoughts on, keeping your arms and legs inside the ride at all times. You know, anytime you let your your arms and legs go out, yeah, put yourself at a bit more risk. So if I am rolling with somebody who’s a bit less predictable, I will oftentimes, and I love to stand.

Steph Gaudreau
I love a standing game I love like, open guard. You know, there’s a lot of like action involved in that. I’ve been told people are like, your legs are like arms. And I’m like, Yes, I love this. You know, so I love those games. And yet, I’ve also learned that if somebody is I feel they’re very unpredictable. I will try to I’ll try to fight from my knees or because I’m like, self-preservation. percent. Yeah. So it really depends on the person. But I’ve tried to learn how to mitigate risk. Yeah. As best as I can knowing that this is an unpredictable sport.

Alex Maclin
I think for me because people told me I was so strong, like, I’ve really made a point to try to be really technical. And so I think that that also helps is that if they don’t if the other person doesn’t feel how strong but I am like, I’m like Burr, you know, they’re, they relax a little bit more. So it’s, yeah, that self-preservation thing, like strength on strength is going to, something bad’s gonna happen.

Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, and that’s the thing. Nobody necessarily wants to be the one to acquiesce and say, Okay, I’ll sacrifice something here because I want to come back tomorrow and keep doing this sport. And I see a lot with white belts, they get bitten by the bug, and they want to come in, like twice a day, every day. And I’m like, young Patwon, pace yourself a little bit. You know, your, your body is not used to this, it. It looks like we’re rolling around on the floor. But your skin has to adapt to your joints. Adapt to like, your ad. Like if if your inner thighs haven’t done any work, like you’re gonna feel it every time you try to close your car. Yeah. People don’t tell you Yeah. You know, just like, yeah, cook like calm enough. So that you learn like once a week is like, not enough, but you know, get in there a reasonable amount, like let your body recover. Think of it like any other kind of progressive overload.

Alex Maclin
Progressive overload. Fantastic way. Yeah. Imagine what a concept.

Steph Gaudreau
This has been a great chat. Yeah, I love it. I love nerding out with other people not only Jiu-Jitsu people, but the fact that you have such a strong background in nutrition and you strength train, like, I feel like we’re like cut from the same cloth kind of people. It’s nice to see, it’s nice to see that it’s nice to see an upper-belts, like that desire also to help other people and, you know, make the sport better in our own way. And I think that that’s important.

Alex Maclin
Thanks for having me on.

Steph Gaudreau
Tell the good folks where they can learn more about you.

Alex Maclin
You can follow me on Instagram @AlexQMaclin. And then my website, AlexMaclin.com. You can look me up there and inquire about coaching if that’s something that you would like to do.

Steph Gaudreau
Sweet. What’s the Q, by the way? I wanted to ask you that.

Alex Maclin
Qinton. Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

Steph Gaudreau
Awesome. Well, I hope to see you soon in person. That’s the next logical step.

Alex Maclin
Oh, we got to, 100%.

Steph Gaudreau
Thanks for being on the show.

Alex Maclin
Thank you so much.

Steph Gaudreau
All right. That’s a wrap on this episode about performance nutrition considerations for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I hope you learned something in this episode, whether you are practicing in the sport of BJJ or you are just thinking about Hmm, where are the gaps in my own nutrition approach for performance’s sake, no matter what sport or activity that I am pretty invested in? So hopefully you can start to see where some of those gaps might be.

Steph Gaudreau
If you enjoyed this episode, please help us out by hitting subscribe on your favorite podcast app. Also on YouTube, if you watch this over there, hit subscribe and ring the bell for more notifications of when future podcasts go live on the platform.

Steph Gaudreau
And if you’re a woman over 40, who’s trying to build strength and add muscle, but you need structure and support, you need coaching you need to really implement a proven framework that’s going to get you from point A to point B. Go ahead and check out Strength Nutrition Unlocked is currently accepting applications over at StephGaudreau.com/apply. Thanks for being with me today. And I will see you on the very next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Nutrition for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu w/ Alex Maclin | Steph Gaudreau.