SA Voices From The Field podcast

#Careers #Business #NASPA Student Affairs Professionals in Higher Education #Dr. Jill Creighton #NASPA #College #Highereducation #Studentaffairs #Podcasting Education #Universe

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In this episode, we delve into the concept of being "qualified" in the workplace, examining who gets labeled as such, who doesn't, and the underlying reasons. We explore "competency checking"—the practice of scrutinizing individuals' abilities—and how it disproportionately affects underrepresented groups, often going unnoticed or unchallenged. Our discussion aims to redefine qualifications in a fair, equitable, and actionable manner. Our guest, Shari Dunn , is an accomplished journalist, former attorney, news anchor, CEO, university professor, and sought-after speaker. She has been recognized as Executive of the Year and a Woman of Influence, with her work appearing in Fortune Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Ad Age, and more. Her new book, Qualified: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work , unpacks what it truly means to be deserving and capable—and why systemic barriers, not personal deficits, are often the real problem. Her insights challenge the narratives that hold so many of us back and offer practical solutions for building a more equitable future. Together, we can build workplaces and communities that don’t just reflect the world we live in, but the one we want to create. A world where being qualified is about recognizing the talent and potential that’s been overlooked for far too long. It’s not just about getting a seat at the table—it’s about building an entirely new table, one designed with space for all of us. Connect with Our Guest Shari Dunn Website& Book - Qualified: https://thesharidunn.com LI: https://www.linkedin.com/today/author/sharidunn TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesharidunn Related Podcast Episodes: How To Build Emotionally Mature Leaders with Dr. Christie Smith | 272 Holding It Together: Women As America's Safety Net with Jessica Calarco | 215 How To Defy Expectations with Dr. Sunita Sah | 271 Share the Love: If you found this episode insightful, please share it with a friend, tag us on social media, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform! 🔗 Subscribe & Review: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music…

SA Voices From the Field

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SA Voices from the Field shares the voices and stories from student affairs professionals from around the world. This podcast provides you with practical advice to help you be the best student affairs practitioner you can be, no matter where you are in your career.

223 episoade

SA Voices From the Field

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#Careers #Business #NASPA Student Affairs Professionals in Higher Education #Dr. Jill Creighton #NASPA #College #Highereducation #Studentaffairs #Podcasting Education #Universe

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SA Voices From the Field

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Leadership in Action: Dr. Michael Christakis on Longevity, Vision, and Impact in Student Affairs 48:25

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Harnessing Professional Longevity and Growth Dr. Michael N. Christakis’s remarkable twenty-six-year journey at the University at Albany showcases a rare career longevity within a single institution in the realm of student affairs. From his early beginnings in housing and residence life to becoming the Vice President for Student Affairs and Enrollment Management, Dr. Christakis exemplifies staying power through adaptability and curiosity. He credits his mentors, diverse professional opportunities, and openness to roles outside his comfort zone—such as spearheading student learning assessment initiatives—for his upward trajectory. For student affairs professionals aspiring for growth within one institution, Dr. Christakis recommends saying yes to new challenges, pursuing intentional professional development, and embracing adaptability in the face of the ever-evolving needs of the student body and higher education. Maintaining a strong connection to institutional community and family priorities was also key to his decision to stay. A Vision for NASPA Leadership As the incoming NASPA board chair, Dr. Christakis aims to redefine how the field communicates its value. His focus? Ensuring student affairs professionals are positioned as pivotal leaders across crucial domains such as student health and well-being, belonging, diversity, equity, inclusion, career readiness, and social justice. Reflecting on the lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, he underscores the importance of advocating for student mental health and well-being. Yet, he voices concern about the profession’s tendency to take on an ever-expanding workload without prioritizing its own balance. Dr. Christakis encourages leaders to use data and strategic thinking to demonstrate their impact effectively, ensuring critical student success metrics, like retention and graduation rates, tie back to student affairs. Future Challenges: Balancing Policy and Wellness In light of turbulent political shifts, including policies affecting diversity efforts and marginalized communities, NASPA must remain proactive and informed. Dr. Christakis highlights NASPA’s commitment to equipping professionals with the tools and knowledge to navigate these volatile times. Additionally, he believes the profession must address its own sustainability by centering the health and well-being of student affairs practitioners. With professionals at the forefront of addressing wide societal challenges, their mental and emotional wellness becomes essential to their ability to support students. Conclusion: A Call for Strategic Advocacy Dr. Christakis’s leadership philosophy emphasizes the opportunity to reframe student affairs as a transformational force within higher education. Through intentional data-informed storytelling, commitment to personal and collective health, and adaptive leadership, he invites the field to seize its moment to lead. As he steps into his new role, the NASPA community can expect a purposeful and forward-thinking year ahead under his guidance. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, sheherhers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we're pleased to bring you our annual episode with the incoming NASPA board chair. This year's board chair will be doctor Michael N. Christakis, and he is the vice president for student affairs and enrollment management at the University of Albany. Christakis was named VP in May of twenty fifteen. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: And since his arrival to the university in 1999, he served in numerous positions in student affairs, having served as AVP for student affairs prior to his appointments as VP. As a member of the vice president's staff since 02/2007, Christakis developed assessment and evaluation practices, improved the effectiveness of divisional planning, professional development, communications, and risk management, and provided oversight to critical campus life areas. He was elected to be our NASPA board chair in spring twenty twenty four, and we'll assume his full role as NASPA board chair in New Orleans at our annual conference this March. Additionally, he's most recently served as chair of the Association for Public and Land Grant Universities, APLU's, Council on Student Affairs. Previously, he served as regional director for NASPA region two, while concurrently serving on NASPA's board of directors. He's a past national president of Omicron Delta Kappa's National Leadership Honor Society and past national cochair of NASPA's assessment evaluation and research knowledge community. He currently serves as the president of the board for the University of Auxiliary Services at University of Albany. A fellow of the State Academy for Public Administration, he was appointed for public service professor in 2013 and teaches undergraduate courses in public policy, public administration, and political science for which he was honored with Rockefeller College's Outstanding Teacher Award in 2010 and the University of Albany's student association's outstanding teacher in 2014. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: Mike, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:02]: Hello, Jill. Thanks for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:03]: Good to see you again. It's been a minute probably since last annual. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:06]: Annual is always a reunion for me. So getting a chance to see you and so many others at the annual meeting is is always a treat. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: Yes. And we are recording this in early February. By the time listeners do hear this, you might be on a plane on the way to New Orleans or Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:20]: Heading to NOA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: Or watching through virtual sessions or however you're accessing conference content this year. But, Mike, we're thrilled to talk to you today about your role as incoming NASPA board chair. You will take over the gavel, in just a couple of weeks here. We know you've been preparing thoroughly for this as the year has gone by as the chair elect seat. But we always like to start our shows by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat at Albany as well as your seat in the NASPA board? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:02:46]: Yeah. What a ride it's been. So to the seat that I'm in now, I've been at the university at Albany. I'm actually in my twenty sixth year, celebrated twenty five years in the fall. I got to UAlbany as a grad student in the fall of ninety nine studying public policy and did not think then that I would be in the VP for student affairs seat here, but things happen. And so Albany has been very good to me and my family, and and I'm a two time alum having my master's degree and my PhD here. But I started in housing. I was a housing guy through my undergraduate time. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:03:19]: I was an RA for three years. My undergraduate institution, I did my undergraduate work at Alfred University, which is really where I got first exposed to student affairs or to understanding that student affairs was a thing. I'm a first gen college student. My parents are both immigrants from Greece, and so I was the first of my family to go to college. Didn't think working at a college was something you could do in this kind of way. And so had some really great mentors at Alfred University, including the vice president for student affairs and dean of students, Jerry Brody, at the the time, who mentored me throughout. And had residence hall directors who were supervisors of mine, had mentors in student activities. Shout out to Trish DeBertelis, who was very instrumental in her role as director of the campus center at the time at at Alfred in exposing me to what you could do in student affairs. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:04:03]: And so when I was about to graduate, was looking at grad programs, but was also sort of conscientious to the fact that I could maybe work in student affairs as a graduate assistant in this case and help pay for school, quite honestly. And so that's how I sort of entered the field, for lack of a better way of framing it. And then one thing led to another. I was a graduate hall director for a couple of years here, got my master's degree, ended up becoming a full time hall director for a year, led our first year experience program in the early 2000s, which feels like forever ago. In some ways, maybe before it was a thing. And then transitioned to leaving our apartment housing and actually building a 1,200 bed apartment complex in 02/2001, '2 thousand and '2. Did that for about five or six years, and then there were some transitions in the vice president's office in terms of leadership and was called by, at the time, the interim vice president on a Friday afternoon, I remember fairly vividly, inviting me to come to the office. And I remember my assistant at the time, Linda Rogers, says to me, you're gonna get an opportunity. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:06]: And I was like, I don't know I don't know why you're thinking that. And she was like, well, you know, why would they call you on a Friday afternoon to go to the VP's office? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:12]: There's really only two reasons there. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:14]: Yeah. I know. I know. It's I something's with the promotional opportunity. But, you know, Linda was right. And Chris Bouchard, who I'm I'm continue to be grateful for, offered me an opportunity to come to the VP's Office as assistant vice president. She was about to become interim VP, and she asked me to sort of lead couple of initiatives. One was assessment, which is really when I got sort of cut my teeth on assessment and student affairs at the time. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:05:33]: This was in 02/2007. One was risk management, and the other one was in communications. And so made the move to the VP's office in 02/2007. And then, you know, one thing sort of led to another and was assistant to the VP for a while, became an assistant VP. And then we had some retirements, and I was asked to take on the associate VP role, which I did for, I think, maybe two months before Chris announced she was retiring. And Robert Jones, at the time, who was president at the University of Albany, invited me to serve as interim VP, which I happily accepted. You know, at that point, I was completely drinking the purple and gold Kool Aid here at U Albany and was deeply committed to our students and our team in student affairs. And so did that on an interim basis for a few months, and then fairly quickly, Robert was gracious enough to to offer me the full time opportunity, and that was in 02/2015. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:06:19]: And so I've been in the c for ten years now, which is also a little bit like, is it really ten years? Because a lot's happened in ten years at UAlbany, but in higher education in general. That's sort of the the student affairs, UAlbany path. My next path actually replicates some of that because in o seven so before I actually moved to the VP's office when I was in housing, I had approached Betty Simmons and Charlie Fay at the time, both who are leaders in Region 2. And at the time, I think they were still regional VPs. This this goes back to previous governance models. But I had approached them both during the annual conference in Washington, DC, which I think was in o six, and had said to them, hey. You know, I'm Mike. I'm an assistant director of housing at UAlbany. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:06]: I'd love to be the two thousand seven region two conference chair. And they're both like Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:13]: Whole noob. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:13]: Like, who is this guy? And so they didn't accept the offer immediately to their credit, but I made a case. We made a proposal. I had a couple of colleagues here at Albany who I was working with. We had a team of of four or five newish professionals who were into getting involved with NASPA. We were, I think, hungry for that connection for the field outside of just the University of Albany. And Charlie Fay, who ultimately ended up being the the incoming regional VP or regional director, was like, yeah. Let's do this. And so my opening salvo into NASPA work was as chair of the regional conference, which I I don't necessarily recommend as the place to start. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:07:50]: I think there's other ways to get into this without having to go to be the regional chair of the conference, but it was a great way to sort of expose to get exposed to everything that the region was doing and the regional board and the programs we were doing for mid level mid level managers and NASPA undergraduate fellows and SSAOs. And we had a very successful conference, I'm proud to say, in Albany, Two Hundred plus participants, and it continues to be a highlight of my career. And so that was how I got into the NASPA sort of ecosystem as a volunteer. And then I stayed on the board after I rolled off as as NASPA regional two conference chair, did corporate relations for a little bit in terms of getting sponsorship for the conference, was the regional NUF coordinator. So was was very committed to the NUF program, continue to be. Look. I've got a NUF fellow again, this semester, and then we're hosting three NUF interns again this summer. That's been a big part of what we do at UAlbany. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:08:47]: And then had eased into a couple of other roles, including MMI, the Mid Managers Institute, which I helped co facilitate with Lynette Cook Francis at the time, who was a colleague, and then became regional director, which was also just a real highlight for me. And then, you know, sort of eased out of it was past regional director, SSAO liaison for the region for a period of time. And then the NASPA board chair sort of arose and was really honored to be considered and thrilled to have been elected to this. I'm deeply, deeply humbled by the opportunity. So that's sort of the story. They're they're sort of concurrent tracks, though, I think, in a lot of ways. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:19]: I think it's pretty rare in student affairs to spend your whole career at one institution, maybe within one region or within the same state or major metropolitan area, but same institution, we really don't see that often. Can you tell us why and how you were able to choose to stay? Because I think a lot of us in the field have kind of adopted the mantra of to move up, you have to move. Yeah. But you were a bit of an anomaly that you didn't have to do that in some ways. Sounds like you said yes to a lot of things. But what do you have in terms of advice for people who want to have that longevity of career with also growth elements attached to it? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:09:53]: Yeah. Great question. And it's funny. There was a book that is coming out or just came out that Jason Pena and Amy Hecht were editors for. And one of the chapters I wrote with a number of colleagues, including Pat Whiteley, who's also a long term serving VPSA at Miami. And when Jason had reached out Jason is a friend. He reached out about me writing the chapter. He's like, hey. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:10:17]: You know, Mike, I'd like you to work on this chapter about being a long term VPSA at your institution. And I'm like, long term VPSA? Like, how am I long term? I guess I've not been anywhere. You know, it's worth me like, when you're in it, I don't know if you fully realize it. And then somebody points it out, and then you're putting the same sort of Pat Whiteley, who I have tremendous amount of respect for. I'm like, I'm running with Pat. I mean, Pat's like an institution. Right? And Shannon Ellis was was a coauthor as well. I mean and as I was writing that portion of the chapter, it allowed me to reflect on it. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:10:47]: And I think a lot of it is what you sort of suggested. It's trying to sort of take advantage of opportunities at the institution. And I am very fortunate in that since I got here, there have been mentors and supervisors who have provided these opportunities that I may not have otherwise have gotten. And I think some of it is my own desire to learn and to experience things that really are outside of my comfort zone. I noted during my sort of professional journey cutting my teeth on assessment. Assessment was not something that I had really even considered doing as a career element. Although, you know, in retrospect now, I think that, you know, in as much as I introduce myself as a housing guy, because I I do believe that's where I started, I think that there's also a a a portion of my career that really is a student affairs assessment person, and I take tremendous pride in that. I had a conversation couple months ago with the NASPA assessment evaluation research knowledge community of which I co led for a period of time as national cochair. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:11:51]: And I think that that experience in leading student affairs assessment at UAlbany was very developmental for me, but I wouldn't have had it had my vice president at the time not said, there's a need the division has because we were coming up on a reaccreditation, and I'd like you to be the one to guide us through that. And I think in that moment, I could have been like, well, you know, Chris, I I don't know the first thing about it. Right? So I'm out. And I didn't. You know, I was like, alright. Let me try to take in as much as I can about an area that I'm not familiar with. And so, you know, I was quite literally building the bike as I was riding it. And, you know, it was one of these things where I thought we were making more progress than we actually were. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:12:34]: I remember three or four years worth of me putting forward annual conference program proposals, underscoring how Albany had really transformed the assessment space. And every every gear, I I would get turned down. Because the reality was we actually in as much as I in my little bubble, I thought we were making inroads. I think, you know, the reviewers were like, oh, not really. I mean, you know, where where are you really at? And by the fourth year, when we actually did start to get looked at, you know, for precons at the I remember we would do a number of precons at the annual conference with a number of our team at UAlbany. We would go and sort of talk about how you do student learning outcomes and KPIs and the like. It did take some time to get us there, But I think that was also reflecting on it. That was my own development in in that space. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:13:18]: But it was, again, it was sort of saying yes to those to those opportunities. And so I like to learn. It sounds a little bit cliche, but I'm I'm a curious person. I I like to sort of know how things come to be. I remember we were dealing with was it an h one n one flu, something or other? And at the time, I was supervising the the student health center at Albany. And we had a tremendous medical director, doctor Pete Ballas. He this guy was he knew how to explain very technical medical things in the most easily understandable way. And I was like his wing person, quite honestly. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:13:58]: Like, you know, we would go and meet with the faculty senate or the deans to talk about how we were trying to manage what an outbreak might look like. And he would be able to say it in such a way, and then I would just be able to to do sort of the administrative stuff around it. I didn't know the first thing about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:13]: Writing the playbook or how to respond to COVID. Correct. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:14:16]: Yeah. Exactly right. Yeah. Little do we know. Right? But I didn't know the first thing about medical or anything. And I never thought I'd be in that role, but the vice president at the time had asked me to sort of take on risk, which again, I didn't know what that meant exactly. And this was one of these things that she wanted me to work with Pete on. And so we did. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:14:33]: And it's those kinds of varied experiences that I think have kept me here, have allowed me to contribute to student life and to campus life more broadly at UAlbany to help, I think, continue to to grow the institution and support our students. And so, you know, could I have gone someplace else? You know, maybe I could've. I mean, at some point, I'll also acknowledge that my partner, Krista, and I have got three daughters. And, you know, it's important for us that we're in a really great community, here in Albany, and we really wanted to to stay here. And so was it was was it something where there was a job that was so great that I'd wanna go there and uproot, you know, where our three kids are involved in a great school and soccer and dance and girl scouts? Yeah. Not really. And so those are all intentional decisions that we made, and I've got no regrets on any of it. Like I said, I've grown professionally at UAlbany. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:15:22]: I was I was a grad assistant in in the fall of ninety nine. And talking to you now, and I'm I'm the VP for student affairs and enrollment, which which is pretty cool, which is pretty cool as a first gen college grad. So, you know, I'll take it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:32]: Let's switch over to NASPA. You're the incoming board chair. You will be at the helm of the board for the coming year ahead. The NASPA year is March to March. Annual conferences are shift over time. And can you tell us what does it mean to be the board chair in 2025? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:15:48]: When I was running for the you know, you do the board chair elect and then the board chair. So when I was running for the position, I feel like the higher ed landscape looked a little bit different than it does today. And that's not to say we weren't gonna be confronted with challenges. I think we certainly were. I just don't again, probably like your crystal ball. My crystal ball has not been working all that great, you know, these days. But I do think that even when I was making the case for my candidacy, I'm very interested And what I mean by And what I mean by that is we're reflecting a bit on where we were, let's say, five years ago at this time as we were coming on to a global pandemic in COVID. There was clearly on most college campuses, there was clearly a role student affairs staff were playing in helping support our students, their their health, their well-being, their academic success. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:16:49]: And at the time, there were ACE reports, the American Council of Education, the interviews they do with presidents that said, you know, what are the what are your top concerns or priorities? And at that time, probably during that six month period between the outbreak and and when we were getting a vaccine, it was it was student mental health was item number one, which I don't really think up to that point, college presidents were calling out student mental health as the number one priority. Now, if we reflect on the work that we were doing in student affairs, and again, I think that you all were waiting for two plus decades, student health and well-being has always been a priority for us. That's not new. And I think you could probably go across the country and talk to student affairs professionals at small private institutions, large public, and anything in between. And mental health, student health and well-being was always something that we were trying to prioritize. At that particular moment, as we were dealing with with the pandemic, it was made a priority by institutional leaders. And so we had an opportunity in student affairs to lean in on that. Think some of the challenge quite honestly, though, Jill, was that we were also, in a lot of ways, doing so many other things at the institution. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:17:59]: We were I'm just gonna say, you know, what we were doing at UAlbany. Right? I I still remember Thanksgiving getting my PPE on and going and delivering Thanksgiving meals to 200 some odd students that we had in isolation housing at the time, because that's what we were doing. We were trying to figure out when the vaccine was gonna roll out, how we were gonna deliver vaccinations to students. We were still sort of trying to figure out when we were gonna come back that following fall, what masking looked like. So, yeah, in as much as it would have been great if we could just exclusively really double down on, yeah, let's really talk about mental health because this is something that we really think is critical to a student's success and well-being, not just now during a pandemic, but in general, we were being pulled as we often are in student affairs in many different directions. And so for me, as I was thinking about my candidacy and my service to the association as board chair, was how do we how do we get to a place where on our campuses, student affairs is viewed as the leader in a handful of areas that I think we are uniquely positioned to lead in. And health and well-being is among them. Health and well-being is among them. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:19:05]: Issues around belonging, DI, social justice are among them. Right? And and I get, you know, we've got we at UAlbany, and I know that DI is under attack across the country right now. But, you know, UAlbany, I'm fortunate to have a chief diversity officer who is an important, partner in what we do. And and it's not, you know, what the the CDO does versus what the senior student affairs officer does. It's what we do together in this space. Right? I mean, we can probably sit here and talk about twenty some odd years ago when I was an assistant hall director. I was doing DEI work in the residence halls. At a time before, we actually had a a sort of a a dedicated CDO in in the way we do now. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:19:42]: So student affairs have long been doing this kind of work. Career readiness and preparation is an area. Right? And I know that we can get into sort of the nuances of where career development offices sit, and it's one of these areas that is sometimes in student affairs and sometimes it's in academic affairs and sometimes it's in advancement. But if it is in a position where it sits in or close to student affairs, we really should try to double down in that space. How are what are we doing to prepare students for career? And it goes beyond just sort of the resume prep. It's critical thinking and and sort of the kinds of things that that we are positioned to do in the work we support outside of the classroom as well. And so that's where I really wanna get our members confident in being able to make the case on their campuses that I've got this. I'm a student affairs professional, and I've got this. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:20:28]: You gotta trust me on this one. And I don't know if that's where we're at everywhere that that we are. And I think that NASPA is uniquely positioned to provide resources and support at all levels of our association, whether it's the new professional or senior student affairs officer or faculty members who are teaching in the student affairs space to sort of crystallize the impact that student affairs has on a college student's trajectory. And we need to call that out probably more assertively than we have before because there is tremendous value in what we do as professionals, that help support that help support students. And I think short of us calling it out, I'm not sure I don't know if others are going to. And so that's where I think, certainly together with with, Amelia Parnell, who's our who's our new NASPA president and and the board, we're we're in a good position to to do that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:25]: I was having a conversation on the pod last season with, doctor Mexagawa, who was a distinguished pillar recently. He and I were having the same conversation that student affairs, because we're so admired in the day to day work of actually supporting and helping students and doing the student success initiatives and literally just getting through our days, that we often don't have the capacity to tell our story. And that is something that we need to figure out. And so Mike's advice was to tell our story, not just on our campuses, but in our communities and beyond. And I thought that was a really interesting take because we don't necessarily do that well. And so telling our story not only to our communities within the campus, but also beyond the campus. Do you have any colleagues that you'd like to shout out who are doing this particularly well? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:22:07]: I'll call out Lamar Hilton, who's the current he's a regional director. He's at Indiana University. You know, he's he's done, I think, great work. I'm biased. Lars, a a very good friend of mine, but I think he's done amazing work in leading the division there. But I think he's also done amazing work in championing the work that his the student life does at Indiana as a transformational partner. And I say that both in my sort of conversations with Lamar, but I think also just in in sort of watching him on on Instagram, if you follow him. I think you see the he's out in the community. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:22:36]: He's on campus. He's at athletic events. He's underscoring the impact that student affairs can have in student life and student success. And I think that's really critically important. But I really appreciate the comment you made that Mike had referenced about sort of the narrative and the story. And I think that's where we're challenged by that. I mean, I think that in my twenty five, twenty six years in student affairs, and I and I say this to our team here all the time, we're not inclined to ever stop doing something. We're always inclined to do something more. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:23:05]: And the reality is we only have so much capacity. I think that's a comment you made, Jill. Right? There's only so many things we can actually reasonably do, and there's only so many things we can actually reasonably do well. And, you know, that's that's where I've challenged our team here at at UAlbany. We're going through a strategic planning process now for the division. And I've said to them, we cannot continue to be doing more with less. We've really got to be thinking about ways that identify impact programs that really do tie to metrics that are of importance in the national landscape. And student success is an area that I think increasingly higher ed associations are zeroed in, not as I think we should be. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:23:49]: I think issues around retention, persistence, graduation, and outcomes are. In this particular climate now, when you're talking about whether it's return on investment or impact or the value of higher education, we've got to be able to point to where we are having an impact on these these national these are national metrics. Right? Retention is not new. It's been around for a very long time. But I think how does our work positively impact student retention and persistence and graduation rates? And And this is where I then revert back into the the assessment role, which I and when given the opportunity, I didn't fully understand it. But having now done it for fifteen, almost twenty years, this is where data does matter for us. And this is where I really do think that having Amelia Parnell in the president's state puts NASPA in a very strong position. If anybody my first interactions with Amelia were in the the assessment space. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:24:50]: She was VP at NASPA. I was the the the co chair for the assessment evaluation research KC with Gina Masterdecasa was my co chair from Florida. But that's where we began to sort of interact on these issues around data and calling out impact. And so I think what I'm excited about is in as much as higher education is under the microscope and in some ways maybe under attack and there's questioning the value of it, I think what we have is data we can point to. And it's trying to get our colleagues to know what that data is and how to present it to get at the very narrative. I think, that that, Mike Sagawa was talking about when you guys had the conversation. Data is an important part to the narrative. Yeah. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:25:37]: The anecdotal stories are really great. Right? And they can they can they can really, I think, make a compelling argument. But when you really begin to call out impact on again, I keep on sort of saying retention, persistence, graduation, because those are national metrics that we all know exist. But particularly how student affairs units are pouring into that, that I think is where the rubber meets the road. I'll also point out Danita Brown Young, who's the vice chancellor student affairs at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign. Just to the question before Jill about folks who have, I think, done a nice job on making the case. Danita's division does impact college, which they call college impact reports. And what these reports do or for the multiple colleges that that exist at Illinois or Urbana Champaign, and I don't know the exact number. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:26:22]: Danita's division puts together an impact report that calls out data points as it relates to students from that respective college. And Danita then works with her team to engage the deans and the the school and college leadership on an annual basis to talk about those impact points. Right? That to me is a great way of calling out impact across the units that are under Danita's leadership at at Illinois. And so we're trying to do the same thing at Albany. Right? Full credits to Danita. Right? But we're trying to do the same thing here. We're trying to do college impact reports where our assessment team and student affairs are looking through the units that we've got and are pulling data impact points that we can then that I can go and meet with the Dean of Arts and Sciences and say, hey, well, if you're the largest academic unit at UAlbany, here's some information about how many students we house, how many students participate in career programming, how many students are involved in in student clubs and organizations, and here's how we've tracked their retention, persistence, graduation. Right? That is demonstrating the impact that that student affairs has. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:27:27]: And so, again, the example at Illinois that Danita has done, I think, is one worth replicating. And I think that's an important part of telling our story. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:34]: If you'd like to learn more from Danita, she was our NASPA board chair. I believe it was two cycles ago now. And her episode is going to be in whatever two seasons ago is for our podcast. If you'd like to go check that out, please do. Mike, I do wanna kind of name the elephant in the room because we're recording this in the February. We've been navigating the transition of a new political administration in The US. And regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, if you're working in The United States, your job is going to be affected by this new administration's policies. We're also hearing some rumors and we don't know again what will happen by the time this episode is released, that there is some plans to dismantle parts of the Department of Education or the entirety of it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:14]: We're really not sure what that looks like yet. So my question for you here is what is NASPA's plan for how to support our members as we move forward in what is, you know, pretty volatile policy time? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:28:26]: Great question, Jill, and important and timely. So, you know, for us, for NASPA, and credit to Amelia Parnell, who's our president, it's about staying informed. There has been already a flurry of actions largely through executive order out of the current administration. Like you said, I'm not gonna make this about whether we agree or disagree with a particular policy stamp. There have been a number of actions that do impact our students and do impact our college campuses. And I think that what we have found in the first couple of weeks of this is being able to quickly be sort of aware of what those EOs are or what those actions are, whether they're EOs or or other kinds of statements. What the impact is on the populations that we serve, whether it's it's students, our employees, or international students, queer trans students. It's sort of understanding the impact. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:29:18]: But it's also, I think, it's also, I think, trying to figure out what the next immediate step would be. So and and what I mean by this is I was sitting with a handful of students on Friday. Friday is a I try to doesn't mean Friday is my office hours day. It's open office hours. Any student can come and meet with me on Friday. And so I had a number of students come through on Friday, most last week, and they were interested in sort of the impacts on some of these actions that were taken by the administration. And for me, it was underscoring that at the University of Albany, we are still committed to values that I think are very core to who we are in the space of inclusion and diversity and that we remain steadfast behind that. I think the other part though in speaking with the students was what happens on Tuesday morning could shift by Tuesday afternoon and could be reversed by Wednesday morning. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:30:10]: And the example I was giving on Friday, and again, some of this is timing, right, in terms of the listeners, is there was an there's the OMB memo that in effect froze, funding. There was a provision in the OMB memo. This is gonna I'm gonna get a little bit technical here that said that the freeze would not impact individual award programs, so to speak. So out of the gate, you would think that, let's say, title four funding, so Pell work study, would not be impacted. The problem is there are some nuances to the way those grant programs run. Right? So Pell is is in effect given to the institution. The institution disperses it. That was an evolving issue over, like, forty eight hours. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:30:51]: And so what started it as something on Tuesday morning became something very different on Wednesday afternoon. And so and then I think we're seeing that with a number of these issues. So long way of getting at for NASPA and the work that our staff is doing and the work that the board of directors is currently doing, which is actually being very attentive on an ongoing basis. So beyond sort of just our regular board meetings, right, Amelia and her team have been very good about convening the board on a more regular basis to take up issues so we are informed about what is going on and to consider what an appropriate response may be. But it's almost not knee jerk. I'm not probably using the right terminology because if you are sort of responding in the moment, you may not be actually offering that be completely accurate response. And as much as we want to respond now, what is happening now might be different tomorrow. And that's something that can be a little bit jarring to sort of lead through, and it does take a little bit of just a deep breath to sort of see what the landscape looks like. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:31:51]: And I'll say that NASPA, I think, is is fortunate in that we have leadership, both staff leadership in Emilia and board leadership that is keyed into what is best for our members and trying to message that when appropriate in such a way to provide members on campuses with resources to support to support them, each other, but also, I think importantly, our students. And so I think we're gonna be engaged in that for at least the next couple of years. And I think that there's been a a pretty significant flurry in the first couple of weeks of the administration. And I think the future of of the Department of Education is is certainly one that we're gonna track very, very closely because there's obviously some impact there. That that will impact students and quite honestly, some of the most sort of minoritized and marginalized students in terms of the populations that the Department of Education serves. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:41]: I think this is a good approach. It sounds like NASPA in general is gonna be maybe a bit more reactive in the next couple of months just because we don't really know what this is going to look like. It is fairly unprecedented for an administration to move in this particular way. My doctorate's in public administration. I know you studied public policy, so it's it's fascinating to see structures being used in ways that we haven't seen them used before from from a scholarly perspective. But I understand that the feeling of being inside of it can be really unsettling as well. So I just encourage our members to take care of yourselves and make space for your well-being. Because I know our work is being affected, and for some of us, it can feel really scary because our direct work is what is being questioned right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:21]: And we don't know what the future is going to hold in terms of what the federal end is gonna decide to do. We know that a lot of our states are affirming the work that we do and some are not, and we've seen that already. Our colleagues in specific states trying to navigate care for students while also being prohibited from engaging in specific types of sport. A lot ahead and and, Mike, we hope to continue to talk to you about this should things really, really change the next couple of months. And on that note, we are still in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have three questions for you. One each on the past, present and future about our profession. So starting in the past, what's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? I think Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:34:02]: it'd be great if I could find something we can get rid of. You know, I say it'd be great if I could think of something we could get rid of because it goes to the point I was sort of alluding to earlier, is we continue to take it on. We continue to take everything on and feeling in some ways that just reflects the role that student affairs has played in sort of the more contemporary history in higher education that we outside of the classroom in particular, there has been so much more that we are able to do. And as I sit with our team, they're tired. And I think the pandemic in particular also underscored, like, where's the balance? And I I'm gonna try to draw this sort of ping pong here, but I continue to be concerned about sort of the future of the profession in terms of where where our next professionals coming from. And if they're seeing those of us who are in it spending hours at a time in these spaces, morning, noon, and night, is that appealing to rising professionals? I mean, I don't have an answer to that. Right? I've I've got a NASPA fellow who actually think is really into student affairs. And Juan's been completely exposed to what I've done over the last two years. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:35:07]: He's been my fellow. So I I don't know. He's been turned off by it. I do try to glean some balance in what I do, and I do try to underscore that with with Juan. But I don't think, you know, this notion if if I was to say that in some ways student affairs has been everywhere all the time historically, I do wonder if maybe that's something we need to reconsider in a lot of ways. And I'll fully acknowledge, Joe, that's a mic take. There's clearly folks out there that might be like, well, no. We've not been everywhere all the time, and maybe that's true. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:35:31]: But I think there's there's a pretty stark shift that's happened certainly since 2020 in the pandemic. In the pandemic, I'd say George Floyd, quite honestly, there was a significant racial reckoning that took place that for me was there was an evolution in my own thinking on issues around race and equity that I hadn't experienced previous to that. And a lot of that had to do with quite honestly being on a Zoom call. And it was May, June of the pandemic with black colleagues who were visibly exhausted on the screen. And that had a pretty significant impact on me in watching them and hearing them talk about George Floyd's murder. And so, you know, that to me was another example of how much more of this can we sort of take on? And we're all approaching it from very different ways. So I do think it's it's trying to truly glean some balance there. But I think it's that also goes to the point I was making earlier about how do we carve out what our explicit role is on college campuses as the the authority in student health, in student belonging, in issues around equity. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:36:34]: So that's sort of a a meandering answer to that, but I think there's gotta be some more balance there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:38]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? I Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:36:43]: was in Boston a couple weeks ago at the NASPA Strategies Conference, and there were 1,400 people there. And I think we're zeroing in and maybe using some sharp elbows to sort of demonstrate to people that we are the folks that are interested in issues around student health, well-being. There was some significant energy in Boston in January around, topics related to health and well-being. And I was so impressed by the presentations, by the poster sessions. We brought a small team of our own peer educators there. We had about 10 of them. The Middle Earth Peer Assistance Program at UAlbany is over five decades old now. But to see these students, these young people, who I think in a lot of ways, if they wanted to, any one of those 10 students could be very successful student affairs professionals in their life and career. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:37:32]: But having them there with 1,400 people, professionals, with a focus on how student mental health is sort of key to student success, I think, was just a tremendous, tremendous opportunity for them. And they said as much. They dropped off a note the other day because we went out to dinner after their poster session. But I think that's actually something that we are doing right. And I think that UAlbany and a number of other institutions are really trying to lean in heavily as health promoting universities. And I think NASPA has been supportive of the US Health Promoting College Network. There was a meeting that happened in Boston there. There's a lot to be said about not just sort of heralding the importance of health, but actually demonstrating how we're positively impacting this through our work. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:38:15]: And that was on full display in Boston in January. So I think among probably many things, that's one area that I think I'm tremendously proud of. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: Looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:38:27]: I think we need to center our people. I think we need to center our staff, our colleagues. And I think that, I mean, as much as we are prioritizing student health and well-being, I think we also need to be prioritizing our own health and well-being. And that's one of these other realizations that I think I've had in the last probably five years, certainly since the pandemic. And I've said this to our team here at UAlbany, and I and I've shared it with NASPA colleagues as well. If we are not in a position to support our staff, our employees, our professionals, and our grad students so that they feel supported and seen and heard and taken care of, how would we expect them to do that for our students? And I think and then I've said with a number of colleagues, I think, oh, this is not rocket science. I mean, this is not oh, this is an amazing idea. But it's easier said than done, I think, is the challenge. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:39:16]: I say to first year students, every summer, you need to prioritize your health. If you're not eating well, if you're not exercising, if you're not sleeping, you're gonna struggle in the class room. You have to be healthy in order to be successful, and there's lots of ways we can unpack success. But I think that one's health is key to that, and I'd say the same thing with student affairs practitioners. How are we centering their health and well-being? And I don't know to the extent that we have really tackled it head on. And that is something that I am hopeful in the next year or so that we can begin to unpack a little bit more. The concept isn't rocket science. Science. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:39:54]: I think delivering on it was gonna take some minds to come together and say, you know, let's let's pause for a second and see how we can, in fact, prioritize student affairs practitioners' health and well-being. And it's it's for members across our association. I mean, it's I know everybody's got maybe different needs. What the challenges that a senior student affairs officer might be confronted are probably very different than what a new professional is confronting. That and then acknowledging the intersectionality of various identities and experiences, also very different. So it's a challenge to unpack it. But if we wanna try to sustain the profession going forward, I think we have to prioritize our health in doing that. And I would certainly for those that are listening, if you've got ideas, I would be very open to hearing them because I I really do think that it's gonna take all of us to really tackle this issue of our profession's health. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:40:47]: It starts with our own health, how we get there. I wish I had a good sense, but I'm hoping there's folks that are there that are listening that can chime in on this one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five NASPA virtual conference is happening April 9 to April 11. You can now sign up for the twenty twenty five NASPA virtual conference. You can sign up today and block off your calendar for a three day interactive educational experience. Attendees will engage in high quality live virtual sessions focused on individual and team growth. All of the sessions will remain accessible to attendees on demand for a full three hundred and sixty five days after the conference. This is a perfect way to encourage ongoing development. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:42]: Find out more on the NASPA website. There is a brand new public policy hub that has been developed by NASPA to help institutions and individuals navigate the evolving public policy landscape. NASPA is pleased to announce a brand new public policy resource hub. This is a free member resource to stay informed about key policy developments affecting student affairs. The public policy resource hub consists of a compilation of policy research, coalition work, and resources. You can find tools to track state legislation and federal policy changes. And NASPO will work to keep the information updated to help you stay abreast of emerging developments. The twenty twenty five cannabis and opioid prevention virtual summit is coming up on March 24. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:36]: The twenty twenty five cannabis and opioid prevention virtual summit will equip you with targeted strategies to address cannabis and opioid misuse on your campuses. Through expert led sessions and evidence based approaches, you will gain insights into prevention, intervention, and support frameworks that enhance student health and safety. This one day virtual summit features a keynote session, research policy and best practice presentations, and tangible resources to help you and student leaders on your campus develop or enhance their programming and services to prevent substance misuse on campus. NASPA invites you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Again, this virtual summit is on 03/24/2025, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. Another virtual summit that's coming up is a part of the Culture of Respect series, and this is a new webinar called A Is Not for Ally, Asexuality, Erasure, and Sexual Violence in the queer community. In this webinar, the speakers will examine the unique challenges faced by asexual individuals, particularly regarding sexual and interpersonal violence. They will highlight how asexuality is often erased or even ostracized within queer communities, leading to misconceptions and a lack of visibility that can leave survivors without adequate support. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:08]: By addressing these intersections, they aim to foster a more inclusive conversation around consent, trauma, and identity, ultimately advocating for a more supportive environment for all members of the LGBTQ plus community. This session is on March 12 online and is being hosted by Stephanie Foran, assistant director of care at Kansas State University. You can find out more in the learning hub on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:34]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Chris, thank you so much as always for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we are at our lightning round, so I have seven questions for you to answer in ninety seconds. Are you ready to go? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:13]: Oh, boy. Here we go. Let's go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:15]: Alright. Question one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:20]: Pretty fly for a white guy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:21]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:24]: Oh, when I was five, I wanted to be a school bus driver. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:29]: Probably Steve Bicessi, formerly at the University of Richmond. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:32]: Number four. Your essential student affairs read. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:34]: It's not really a student affairs read, but I like Y by Simon Sinek. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:38]: Number five, the best TV show you binged lately. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:41]: I've done the Gilded Age. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:42]: Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:45]: I'm a big Buffalo Bills fan, so I've been doing one Bills live. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:48]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:46:52]: Just a quick shout out to my RDs for life. These were the team of regional directors that we were together a couple years back. So shout out to RDs for life who are out there. Big supporters. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Well, Mike, we wish you all of the best for your year ahead in the board chair seats. And if NASPA members would like to get a hold of you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:47:09]: An email at mkristakis@albany.edu. Always the easiest way to go. You can find me on the albany.edu website as well or connect with me on LinkedIn. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:17]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today, and we look forward to your leadership. Dr. Michael N. Christakis [00:47:21]: Thanks, Jill. Appreciate the opportunity. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:28]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:06]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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From Novice to Leader: Navigating AI Adoption in Student Affairs with Dr. Claire Brady 47:51

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Bridging the Past, Present, and Future of Student Affairs with AI In the constantly evolving landscape of higher education, artificial intelligence (AI) is emerging as a potent tool for student affairs professionals. In the latest episode of the "Student Affairs Voices from the Field" podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Dr. Claire Brady as she shared her insights on how AI can be harnessed to streamline operations, free up time for deeper human connections, and enhance student success. Anchoring her discourse around the recently published NASPA AI report, Dr. Brady provides a roadmap for AI integration, framed through four crucial phases. Rapid Implementation: Where to Start Starting Small for Immediate Impact Dr. Brady emphasizes the importance of initiating AI integration through readily available solutions that address immediate challenges with minimal disruption. This phase centers around adopting free and low-cost tools that can yield quick wins. For instance, Kellogg Community College began using a CRM with embedded AI tools in their admissions department, which gradually expanded across the institution. This approach allowed them to showcase the value of AI incrementally while building momentum for broader adoption. Resource and Capacity Building: Strengthening Foundations Enhancing AI Literacy and Competence The second phase involves building the necessary infrastructure and expertise for more sophisticated AI applications. Nashville State Community College serves as a model, implementing a year-long AI training program funded by a state grant. This comprehensive program combines interactive learning with critical analysis of AI's practical applications, helping to foster a campus-wide culture of AI literacy and competence. Such initiatives are crucial for developing the foundational knowledge and skills required for future AI endeavors. Scaling Solutions: Expanding AI's Reach From Departmental Pilots to Institutional Integration Scaling successful AI initiatives across various departments and functions forms the core of the third phase. Georgia State University's chatbot, Pounce, exemplifies this phase. Originally designed to reduce summer melt, Pounce has evolved into a comprehensive student support system. By leveraging AI to improve engagement with first-generation and underserved students, Georgia State demonstrates how a focused pilot project can scale into a broad institutional strategy that significantly enhances student experiences. Strategic Transformation: Towards Comprehensive Integration Aligning AI with Institutional Goals The final phase, strategic transformation, envisions a comprehensive integration of AI fully aligned with broader institutional goals. This phase anticipates creating an ecosystem where all technological components work synergistically. The University of Florida's "Building an AI University" initiative exemplifies this stage. By embedding AI education across disciplines and emphasizing ethical guidelines and accessibility, the university ensures that AI integration supports their mission holistically. Moving Forward: Centering the Human Element Enhancing, Not Replacing Human Interaction Dr. Brady highlights the essential role of human-centered AI integration, stressing that AI should augment rather than replace human interactions. AI can alleviate the laborious aspects of administrative tasks, allowing student affairs professionals to focus more on meaningful, human-centric activities. This perspective is crucial as the field navigates the integration of emerging technologies. Conclusion: Embracing the AI Frontier The transformational potential of AI in student affairs is vast, and as Dr. Brady emphasizes, now is the time for institutions to start exploring and implementing these tools. By following the structured phases of AI integration outlined in the NASPA report , student affairs professionals can strategically harness AI to enhance their work, support students, and ultimately drive institutional success. As we embrace this new frontier, continuous learning, ethical considerations, and a commitment to human-centered practices will be key to thriving in the future. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we're bringing the conversation back to artificial intelligence in student affairs. We welcome Claire Brady, who is a first generation American and first generation college graduate who has built a distinguished career at the intersection of digital transformation, organizational excellence, and higher educational leadership. A seasoned executive consultant and national thought leader in AI adoption, Claire specializes in helping organizations harness AI not just to streamline operations, but to free up time for deeper, more meaningful human connections. Through glass half full consulting, Claire helps organizations scale their AI integrations strategically and substantially. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: Sorry, Chris. Starting that, paragraph over. Through glass half full consulting, Claire helps organizations scale their AI integrations strategically and sustainably, enabling teams to amplify their impact while staying true to their core mission and values. The firm specializes in creating customized AI adoption road maps that align with organizational goals, ensuring technology serves as a catalyst for meaningful growth and enhanced human connections. As a sought after speaker and trainer, Claire is dedicated to equipping professionals with the knowledge and tools they need to thrive in an AI enhanced world. She is the author of The Transformative Potential of AI and Student Affairs, Recommendations for Student Affairs Leader, a national report developed in partnership with NASPA and the Strata Educational Foundation, which is also the topic of our episode today. Claire has held executive leadership roles as vice president for student affairs at Lake Sumter State College and Anna G. Mendez University, serving both Florida and Puerto Rico. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: Her career also includes leadership and teaching roles at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, Michigan State University, and Alma College. A committed mentor and thought leader in higher education, she's contributed to NASBA as a faculty member and co director of the Institute for Aspiring BPSAs and New Professionals Institute, as well as a frequent contributor to Leadership Exchange and Colleague Conversations. Beyond her professional work, Claire is an active member of regional and national associations and serves on various community boards in Central Florida. She and her partner, Ben, and their son live in Orlando where life is filled with Lego builds, Minecraft discussions, and Broadway show tunes. When she's not exploring new AI tools or traveling, she enjoys reading, great TV, and time with family and friends. Claire, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Claire Brady [00:02:37]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]: Lovely to see you again with many connections in NASPA. I always like to clue our listeners in. Claire was one of my faculty members at the NASPA AVP Institute. Oh, gosh. I think that was five years ago now. Dr. Claire Brady [00:02:51]: A time ago. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:53]: And and so it's lovely to reconnect. We're gonna be spending most of our conversation today talking about the authorship of the AI report, which was just released by NASPA just before the winter break. So if you haven't had a chance to check that out, it is freely available actually with or without your NASPA membership. If you're just a higher ed community member and wanna check it out, it's, freely available on the Internet. But Claire, you're off and running into the consulting world now after have having spent a long time, as a senior student affairs officer at VPSA. We always like to ask our guests how you got to your current seat, and I'm so curious about your journey. Dr. Claire Brady [00:03:27]: As you can imagine, a lot of people have questions about moving from full time staff into consulting. So I'll I'll definitely share some of that as well. So I'm a very traditional higher ed student affairs. I mean, my twenty fifth year, I started as a student leader. Most folks know my origin story. I immigrated to The US when I was in high school, and I'm a first generation college student. I was absolutely in love with the college experience at Michigan State University, very involved student leader, and applied for graduate school and got denied. And it was actually the best thing that could have happened to me. Dr. Claire Brady [00:04:00]: I went and worked full time at a small liberal arts college, Alma College in Michigan, and really honed my craft and really figured out quickly that this was the profession I wanted to pursue. Went on to graduate school, went on to some great positions at Michigan State, the University of Illinois and Lake Sumter State College and eventually Ana G. Mendez University. So I've worked at Big Ten, I've worked at community college, I've worked at a Hispanic serving bilingual institution, and I really started off in generalist, roles. Then I moved to some specialist roles, eventually into AVP, Dean of Students and Vice President of Student Affairs. And all throughout that process, I always was a regular good human in the professional association space. I did a lot of speaking and presenting, and then eventually I did some consulting on the side. And in 2023, kind of the stars aligned for me. Dr. Claire Brady [00:04:49]: I was about to renew my contract as a vice chancellor of student affairs. My chancellor announced he was leaving to go to a different presidency. And I saw an opportunity to really throw my hat into the ring and become a full time consultant and start to really pour into myself instead of into an institution or into a system. And I had been doing a lot of work around strategic planning and other areas, but artificial intelligence wasn't even something that I was doing professionally. It was just something that I was doing personally. I was really interested and curious about it. I love anything that helps me save time and do things more effectively, faster, that that frees up time for me to do the things I really love to do. And I had a client who said, I really don't understand this entire world. Dr. Claire Brady [00:05:34]: Can you help me? Can you coach me? And that was a launching point for me and I have been full time consulting with my firm, Glass Hospital Consulting ever since. And about 70% of my business now is completely focused in the area of AI. It's really wild. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:47]: What a shift. We weren't even talking about this in higher ed, like, eighteen months ago. Dr. Claire Brady [00:05:51]: Absolutely. And when I say consulting with AI, it's everything from I do about 10 to 12 keynotes kind of keynote speeches a month, either in person or virtually. But the bulk of my business around AI is actually really focused in the actual AI integration, helping institutions scale, how to take that individual person in admissions or advising or career services who's using a tool like ChatGPT or insert whatever your favorite tool is, to taking it and actually scaling it at the division or departmental or institutional level. How to do the governance work, how to do the policy work, how to increase AI literacy. So it's really layered. It's really interesting. It's different every day. And I'm on about 30 campuses a year. Dr. Claire Brady [00:06:33]: That's about the max that I can do at this point. So I get to see lots of great campuses all around the country. I have, many wardrobes, and I spent a lot of time on planes and in airports. But wherever I go, I have this incredible community of student affairs folks, either with the institution I'm working with or in the surrounding area. So that's also been a really great way that I've stayed connected in the field while kind of working mostly from home. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:56]: I appreciate you sharing what that consulting actually looks like. I think it's such an enigma that we see senior leaders move into their own consulting space all the time, but I think a lot of people don't really know what that means. So it's great to hear. Dr. Claire Brady [00:07:07]: I feel like it's like the celebrity or the actor who, like, finally wins the Academy Award at the end and everyone's like, oh, you were like an overnight success. I really think two things really helped me be successful in the space. I was a really good professional for twenty five years. Right? And I built up this network of people who trust me and know me and know that I give up my time and my effort. I'm also a mentor and a sponsor to a lot of people, but I've also been mentored and sponsored by a lot of people. And from that, I was able to grow a business. So a lot of times I have folks asking me, like, what's your best advice for becoming a consultant? It's to be a really great professional and to be really engaged and and invested in our field. And then also, I have kept up all of those professional volunteer association work roles. Dr. Claire Brady [00:07:50]: I was a co director with my friend Jose Rivera for the aspiring vice president's institute. I continue to do all kinds I I review programs and I review awards and I do all the things. Right? And then also, the second piece was I'm an opportunist. And AI right now, there's just not a lot of folks doing this work in higher ed. And here I am saying, I'm gonna plant my flag along in this case with the report with NASPA, and we're gonna help you. Because no one knows what they're doing and everyone is a novice. And I will tell you that our field as a whole are not used to being a novice at anything. And so this has been a really, transformational moment for a lot of folks to have members of cabinet come to me and say, I don't know how to lead in this area. Dr. Claire Brady [00:08:35]: What do I need to know to build my basic competence, let alone my confidence? Right? So that's been a really interesting space to be. And I'm not a super techie person. I often need help with my slide deck. So that's also helped a little bit that I'm relatable and approachable, and then I'm learning alongside all my clients as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:53]: This is a really important component of this AI learning space, which is that we're all learning together. I'm teaching European master's course. I'm teaching the technology module. We did a whole four hour session on AI integration. And what I said to the students in the class is I'm not an AI expert, but what I am is a dabbler and a tinkerer. And I think that's what you really need in order to experiment with how does AI actually serve you in your day to day work. Whether it be something simple like Microsoft Copilot, which a lot of universities have for free with their Microsoft Office licenses or three sixty five or whatever the heck it's called now. ChatGPT, which is free, Omni, all these AI generated imagery components. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:32]: And there's even some really great tools that will help you create a PowerPoint deck from couple of bullet points and things like that. So what we did was just went through tools and played with them together and talked about, well, how do we use this to create emails? How do we use this to write something down that's difficult? But also how do we do this in a way that doesn't violate FERPA or whatever privacy law your GDPR here over in the European Union area. But all of these things, because we're putting sensitive data in a lot of places if we're misusing these tools. So a lot to talk about on this topic, but why don't we center first with what is the NASPA AI report? Dr. Claire Brady [00:10:08]: So last spring, NASPA approached me. They knew I was doing this work at AI, and they said to me, we wanna be one of the first associations that plants our flag in this area, that provides resources for our members. We're hearing that we know they need it. They know they want it. And so they came to me and asked me whether I would be willing to partner with them and Strata Educational Foundation to put out some resources. But beyond that, we didn't really know where it was gonna land. Right? What it was gonna look like. And so I spent about six months in the field talking to folks, and I started out really using my networks and saying, who's doing something vanguard? Who's doing something advanced? Who's doing something who has an emerging best practice? Not a single response because no one thinks they're doing anything that is ahead of everybody else because every everyone thinks they're behind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: So emerging practice, but not emerging best practice. Dr. Claire Brady [00:10:58]: Exactly. Exactly. Right? So if they're tinkering if I asked who's tinkering, I think I would have gotten a very different set of responses. So I had to keep refining. I had to really keep working my network. And from that came this report that really highlights not just what is AI and what are the key terminologies, but what's the current state in student affairs? Where are we now? Where do I see the horizon kind of leading to us and where's around the corner? And that's really important because we're all talking about tools, mostly generative AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini. What we're not really talking about is all the data work that's ahead of us. We're not really talking about student consent. Dr. Claire Brady [00:11:34]: We're talking about privacy and cybersecurity. We need to be talking about those things. We're not talking about things like student consent. So the really kind of nuanced work that we need to be doing, there is no framework that existed to integrate, how to scale, so we created that as part of the report. And then I think the two pieces that are most exciting to me, one are the emerging use cases. There are 14 of them. Those are use cases that are are in their one or more cycles, in many cases, six or seven cycles where we know they're collecting data, where they're actually measuring impact, where they can be replicated by other institutions and explained in a way that's not just theoretical. And then there's 50 plus forecasted use cases in the report. Dr. Claire Brady [00:12:14]: And those are really either coming from we just know that they're coming based on where the technology is evolving or they're coming from other areas outside of higher education that we know that we will be able to apply that same concept within higher education. And then there's a charge to leaders. What do you need to do next? How do you need to be a bold leader in this area? And that really comes down to this very unsexy idea of developing AI literacy amongst everybody at your institution, including students. Right? And then iterating, practicing, trying, tinkering, whatever the word might be. And so we probably have enough content to make three more reports, really collected such just rich information and data, but we had to figure out what what folks need right now. And what folks right need right now, I think, is really encapsulated in this report. And then what we're finding is the folks in the 14 emerging use cases are getting contacted every week since the report came out from institutions saying, tell me how you did that. Or sometimes it's an in house product, sometimes it's a vendor product. Dr. Claire Brady [00:13:15]: And so we're seeing this really kind of interesting community forming around these 14 use cases. And I'm hoping that we'll start to see my next set of use cases will be some of those forecasted use cases that come to life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:26]: So in the report, there are four phases of AI integration and development that are brought up as a way of kind of framing how to approach it. Because I think where we are as a field is this notion that we all know that we need to do better with AI. We all know we need to do something with AI. And I think everyone is a little bit overwhelmed by what that means or where to start because at the end of the day, as student affairs professionals, we are the end user case of AI. We're not usually the developers. Maybe we have IT teams that are internal to student affairs. Maybe we're working with a university central IT department. But there are so many things that can be done. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:02]: There's some use cases around chat GPT like components for your university. Forever, we've been talking about one stop shop answers for students, and we can do that online. We can do it better than the big chat GPT or other LLMs, meaning large language models because we can feed data in in faster real time, all of those things. But we again, we're going back to these four phases that really tell us, hey. Here's how we begin because beginning might actually be the scariest part here. So talk to us about phase one, which is rapid implementation. Dr. Claire Brady [00:14:34]: So phase one is really focused on readily available AI solutions that address immediate challenges but have minimal disruption. So the example I love to give for this one is a manager who's really struggling to have consistency maybe in their performance reviews for their team. They could use an AI tool, anonymize, obviously, not putting any kind of personal information into the tool, And they can really use that as a way to improve in that particular case in their particular department a process or a written, output. Right? Kellogg Community College has a a great example of this. So they started using a CRM, a customer relationship management platform that has embedded AI tools, and they started simply in admission. And then they began expanding across all departments that have any piece of the new student student communications process. Right? And so by really focusing on rapid implementation and then scaling in a logical organic way, it allowed them to demonstrate value quickly while building momentum for this broader adoption. And from my interviews with them, they really don't think it would have been as successful as if they had kind of done a huge project that was really focused on the entire communications process. Dr. Claire Brady [00:15:48]: Right? So they were able to start in admissions and then kind of build from there. So that's a great example of phase one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:54]: So we now have phase two, which is resource and capacity building. This is taking us to the next step. What does this mean? Dr. Claire Brady [00:16:01]: So phase two really focuses on moving institutions beyond quick wins to developing the infrastructure and expertise needed for more sophisticated applications. So the examples that I like to give in this one are really focused on AI literacy in particular and data readiness. Those are two areas that we know. Once we have kind of the basics, folks understand what the tools are, they are given a right a a a tech stack really that they can play in. How do you move your institutional capacity in terms of resources, but also in terms of knowledge, confidence, and competence. So Nashville State Community College really exemplifies this phase for me. They are doing a year long AI training program monthly, which combines interactive learning with critical analysis of AI's practical applications. So imagine the entire institution is undergoing some similar AI literacy training, And then each month, different populations within the faculty and staff are doing intensive AI training for that whole day on a Friday, let's say, just looking at accessibility tools, just looking at research and writing tools, just looking at the power of AI in the advising space. Dr. Claire Brady [00:17:10]: And so they're a great example of one that's kind of taken this idea. They, sought out a grant from the state of Tennessee. So the state of Tennessee is actually paying for this pilot program at Nashville State, and it's really a proof of concept for the other community colleges within the system. So that's a great example of a way to build resource and capacity code. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:30]: And then phase three, we have scaling solutions, which I think is one of the scarier things, about AI integration personally. Probably because it comes with assigning dollar resources, but also policy frameworks kind of kick in, I think, at this point. Dr. Claire Brady [00:17:45]: This is the one where folks think things are gonna break, usually. But this is actually the dream stage that everybody wants to get to. We don't really only want one department or one person. It's a single source of failure. So scaling solution shifts the focus to expanding successful AI initiatives across either departments, divisions, functions, and or institutions. So Georgia State is a great example of this. They're really the powerhouse as it relates to chatbots and virtual assistants. They started with a chatbot called Pounce in their enrollment services area that demonstrates really the power of scaling. Dr. Claire Brady [00:18:20]: So it began as a tool to reduce summer melts, and it's actually evolved into a comprehensive student support system with particularly strong engagement of among first generation and traditionally underserved students. So imagine a chatbot, really, that's focused on the new student and making sure that we get them through to the first day of class. So there's nudges along the way. There's ways to engage the student. There's ways to prompt them and nudge them into doing specific behaviors, pay your bill, check your financial aid email, you know, whatever that might look like. But in that process, in that back and forth with the students, they really discovered many of the roadblocks students were encountering, many of the issues, many of the questions. And so from that, they've been able to scale this one chatbot into this comprehensive way that they communicate with students across the student experience. So they were able to to really take that and say, we're gonna take this concept. Dr. Claire Brady [00:19:13]: And as we work with international students, it's gonna look like this. Whereas we work with our military affiliated students, it's gonna look like this. And so they've taken that one concept and they've been able to really scale it across the institution. It's the dream. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:25]: And then finally, we have phase four, which is strategic transformation. Tell us about this one. Dr. Claire Brady [00:19:31]: This is really kind of where the cycle then actually, once we work on representing that vision of a more comprehensive AI integration that's fully aligned with our broader institutional goals. This is what I call the ecosystem. Right? This is where all the pieces are really talking to each other, where we know that we're able to have data in the places and in the ways that we we need it to be, that our communications, that our student experience, all of that is really working in synergy. But honestly, this is where the cycle restarts again. So it's not just necessarily the end spot. It's really where things kind of evolve to, and then they kind of start that whole framework all over again. The University of Florida has an initiative called Building an AI University. And I think for me, this is really, at this moment in time, the best example in the country right now of this phase four. Dr. Claire Brady [00:20:20]: So it really exemplifies this phase by prioritizing AI education across all disciplines while also really focusing on developing ethical guidelines, ensuring accessible tools for diverse student populations. And this is really where their curricular and co curricular, the student experience, the academic learning outcomes are all aligned and integrated in a way that you can tell the institution is working at a really high level, functioning at a really high level, But also, everybody's kind of marching in the same direction, and they've seen they've scaled all the solutions. They've seen the impact. And it's very obvious that this is an institution to me, at least. And I I live in the state of Florida, but the University of Florida started this six or seven years ago. So it's taken them a while to really get to this place. But I think they really are the model that a lot of institutions will be looking to in the future. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:14]: And they also have the resources of being a very large public Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:17]: They do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Which is very different than maybe I'm at a two year institution or a small liberal arts institution. I think there's kind of this constant myth that small liberal arts institutions are well resourced, and that's really not true for a lot. Not true. Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:29]: Not true. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:30]: Well, Well, Dr. Claire Brady [00:21:31]: and I think a big piece of what's interesting about this technical revolution that we're in is I'm actually seeing a lot more open source. I'm seeing a lot more open licenses. I'm seeing institutions like the University of Florida and others saying we're gonna open this up. So everything that's happening at the University of Florida is also being shared, at Miami Dade, and it's also being shared at Florida International. Different type of institution, very different resource set. And so what we're seeing is folks are playing nice in the sandbox right now. There's a lot of beta funding coming in. There's a lot of venture capital coming into this area in higher ed. Dr. Claire Brady [00:22:08]: I get asked probably once a week to comment to a venture capitalist on what the tools are that my clients are using. And, Jill, I wanna be really clear, I don't work at all for vendors, which disappoints them greatly. I only work for institutions. My my entire business is based on my relationship with institutions. They have to be able to trust that what I'm saying about these tools is accurate and fair and as unbiased as I can be in the marketplace. I have no problem telling a vendor I think their tool is great or not great or has problems. I do that about once a week as well. But I am seeing a real sense of community. Dr. Claire Brady [00:22:40]: Berkeley's a great example. Zach Pardos at the University of California, Berkeley, his lab is doing some incredible work as it relates to two areas. Tutoring, which in math and chemistry in particular is so important to many of our students success initiatives, and also in transfer articulation and transcript evaluation. The registrars around the country are cheering. That is just a huge manual heavy lift. And if we can do anything to make the transfer experience more seamless, quicker, less taxing on students, where they can make informed decisions quickly about where they want to transfer. I think that's going to be a major game changer for student success initiatives. So I am seeing some nice kind of playing in the sandbox. Dr. Claire Brady [00:23:21]: I am curious though how venture capital and funding might potentially shift some of those behaviors that I'm seeing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: One of the major components at the front of the report is this idea of human centered AI integration, which I'm glad that you included because I think the conversation that is around fear of AI is will AI take away the need for human interaction or the human nature of student affairs, which my assertion has been student affairs is first and foremost a human to human profession. We're a helping profession. We're making the difference in students' lives and in their persistence and in their college experience, which I don't think AI will ever be able to do fully. So we're looking really more at how does AI enhance our work or inform our work rather than do our work. Can you talk to us about how you you framed human centered AI integration in the report and how you see it show up in the four phases? Dr. Claire Brady [00:24:14]: Sure. I think that the really interesting piece for me is that this is human centered work that I think AI as a tool is just another one in our toolbox. Right? I think so much of student affairs work and our desire and our need to be accountable and to show the work that we're doing and the impact that we're having became very laborious for many student affairs practitioners. And I think, Claire Brady thinks, that it contributed significantly to many of our issues, not all of them, around burnout, around fatigue. If you're spending so much time as an academic advisor is a great example. Logging in to six to 12 systems a day, The systems are talking to each other. I wanna meet with a student. I have to log in. Dr. Claire Brady [00:24:56]: I have to figure out who you are. I have to track things. So many of the tools require so much human intervention just to operate. Right? Let alone be optimal or give you a snapshot. And then so many institutions are not able to afford the Cadillac style portals and systems that are out there in the marketplace. I worked at a community college for ten years. I had to beg for an early alert system for seven of those ten years. So let alone the Cadillac. Dr. Claire Brady [00:25:25]: I was going for a much different version than many of the other institutions. So for me, what I want AI to help us do is to free up our time to remove many of those tasks that have become onerous and laborious for no reason. I want our systems to talk to each other. I love a faculty to be involved in their early alert process, but I would much prefer that I have a background system that tells me my student hasn't logged into Canvas in three days. My student had an assignment in a class, and they didn't turn anything in. My student has been posting things in the discussion posts that have some language that concerns me. I would love to be alerted about that and not have to rely on another person who has a lot of other things going on in their life. So for me, it's about freeing up time for the work that really matters. Dr. Claire Brady [00:26:07]: I think about a career adviser who spends all that time reviewing resumes. I did it for ten years. I never wanna look at another resume ever again. And I got into career services to do one on one work with students to inspire them for their future careers, and I became a professional resume reviewer to some degree. Right? So there's that piece for me. But I also understand right now, people are kinda over that argument. They're like, but there's so many other problems with it, or there's so many other things. And that's partially because we're so new at using these tools. Dr. Claire Brady [00:26:38]: We don't even know what else is out there. So we're using them in a very specific, targeted, localized ways. And when our systems with that that integration, which is just around the corner, when your student information system is gonna speak to your learning management system, your mind is gonna be blown. Just that one thing alone, let alone the other six systems that you're also engaged with that will very soon be integrated and talking to each other. So I think we can't even imagine what that looks like yet. And I feel like a futurist a lot in this work, but I'm literally a nowist. Right? Like, I'm a nowist. Here we are. Dr. Claire Brady [00:27:13]: I think for me in the framework in particular, those early wins, those are all related to free and low cost tools. They are not large licenses. They are not complex systems. They do not require you to do massive data cleanup projects. There are things you could literally be doing tomorrow or this afternoon. And so for me, I feel like in particular right now, that first and second phase are really accessible for folks without significant resources. You can bring in someone like me to do a training, but you could probably cobble together a really great training on your own. Everybody bring your laptop. Dr. Claire Brady [00:27:53]: Let's sit down. You could watch the webinar I did with NASPA last week. That is free. You could read the report. You could report. You could have a a discussion about it. You could go and try some of the tools. So I think for me, those first two phases in particular, there is no one stopping you. Dr. Claire Brady [00:28:07]: Yes. Scaling is more complicated. Scaling requires a certain level of finesse. It requires leadership's buy in. But those first two phases for me are absolutely doable in the moment. They do not require you to be the vice president of student affairs. You can be anybody in the organization as long as you're following your organization's policy and practices around their use of AI. And I have seen that really expand in the last six months. Dr. Claire Brady [00:28:32]: From should we be using it, to how should we be using it, to how can we use it to meet our institutional outcomes. And that is a shift from literally the second half of twenty twenty three to January of twenty twenty five. That's a pretty massive fast shift for a field like student affairs or higher ed, which is, you know, usually, removing at a glacial pace. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:52]: And there's an AI literacy question, I think, for the field. And, as we're building our own literacy around this subject and around these tools that are shifting under our feet every day. Dr. Claire Brady [00:29:01]: Jill, just this week, the whole world's been upended in AI. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:04]: Indeed. Do you wanna share more about that insight? Dr. Claire Brady [00:29:06]: Well, I mean, I travel a lot to campuses, and one of the questions I get asked the most is, how are these technology companies operating? Tell me more about that because that feels like that's really the part that no one really quite understands. And what you saw happen this week was a competitor out of China coming out with a product that seems, on the surface at least, to be operating and functioning at a much higher level than many of the established tools at a tiny fraction of the cost. And so what you're seeing is, literally, the stock market is reacting to this technological shift that was announced. And so we're at a very volatile moment. And I think that also contributes to kind of the anxiety around these tools is there's a lot of messy stuff happening around us. One of the biggest questions I get asked at university and college campuses is, what's the environmental impact of these technologies? And I don't think that's getting anywhere near the attention it needs to be getting. And sometimes when I, when I mentioned that in a, in a speech or a presentation, I get kind of blank stares. Like, what do you mean? It's just the internet. Dr. Claire Brady [00:30:09]: Right? The internet doesn't hurt the environment. Well, of course, the internet hurts the environment. And when the large tech companies are investing in nuclear power because they foresee the need for nuclear power because their power needs are gonna be so significant in the future, I think we need to be really AI literate. And this always goes back to this super unsexy topic for me when I speak to chancellors and presidents in particular, like, what should we be doing? You should be learning everything. And I say this to student affairs in particular. These questions around ethical guidelines, around environmental impact, around the influence of corporate worlds, if we're not at the table asking some of those critical questions, I don't think the questions are gonna get asked. And I ask vendors questions when I'm representing my clients that they say to me, no one has ever asked that question before at any university in the country, which I'm like, wait. What are you talking about? Why aren't they asking? Everybody should be asking these questions. Dr. Claire Brady [00:31:02]: But I am uber AI literate. So I read and I know and I listen to podcasts and I'm talking to people, But I am not an agent of one of these companies, and I am not the most techie person on the planet. I still need a Google and YouTube things to figure out what to do on my iPhone sometimes. So for me, it's just really interesting that there's kind of this veil, and I think we did it to ourselves. We got stuck in the cheating conversation and we couldn't get out of it. And the world moved on around us, and the conversations got more nuanced and more interesting and more layered. And we were still over here saying, well, should we let them? Should we not let them? How should we let them? And we got a little behind. And so we do have a little bit of running to do to catch up, and that goes back to the super unsexy idea that you have to build your confidence and your confidence, and you have to be AI literate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:50]: One thing I'll mention is if you're listening and you'd not really considered environmental impacts before of AI, what Claire and I are really referencing is the cost of running a server, really. Every time you do a Google search or put something into chat GPT or another large language model, it has to ping somewhere and that server has to be run off of electricity somewhere. And the bigger they get, the more expensive and more resource intensive they are to cool. And then we start looking at water usage and global warming and a whole bunch of other things that are affiliated with that. So as end users, we might just say, oh, this is really great for helping me to revise this message or to provide a resource. And at the end of the day, we're all consuming. So there's interesting ethical components around that for sure. Dr. Claire Brady [00:32:34]: And it's just gonna get more and more as folks really start. I mean, even when I do a keynote, I ask folks who, you know, what tools are you using every day, how many tools are you using. I've just seen in the last six months just such an explosion of I usually use one or two to now I use three to five, and then I usually use them five to 10 times a day. It's now become I use them 10 to 20 times a day. So amplify that times times the number of people. It's a lot. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:58]: Are there any final thoughts on the AI report or things that you want listeners and student affairs professionals to know? Dr. Claire Brady [00:33:03]: I think that one, I want you to read it because we really are highlighting and showcasing some incredible folks around the country who are doing the work. And I think that if you are at all thinking about where do we start, how do we start, what do we need to be thinking about, the report is a really great primer to do that. I would encourage you, if you are in a senior leadership role, to share it with your president or your chancellor, whoever that might be. Because although it is focused on student affairs, it is really a higher ed report that we tailored and specialized to our folks. But really, I think there are some key questions and the framework in particular to me, we're really proud of because I feel like it is something folks can really kinda get their hands around. And I'd say, where do I start? Start here. Start by reading the report. Start by discussing it with your peers. Dr. Claire Brady [00:33:49]: And then I would say, start working on some of the low hanging fruit and working on your AI literacy. When I talk about data integrity and data cleanup and all the rest of it, folks, I start to glaze over a little bit. Right? So that might be a two point o for your institution. But I will tell you that you can start now. You do not need to wait, and you do not need massive amounts of resources. Some of the best, most impactful AI integrations that I have seen so far have been using free and low cost. And one is a great example that we talk about in the report is OA Tutor. It is a open source, open license on MIT that any institution can use and tailor to their own institution for math tutoring and chemistry tutoring. Dr. Claire Brady [00:34:31]: And think about our student success initiatives and how important math and chemistry are to those. And so I just want you to think really broadly and expansively, but know that this is a really great resource that you need to have in your toolbox. And then I wanna continue to hear from folks because we wanna continue to write and showcase these examples around the world of student affairs folks who are doing work. And if you are doing anything, you are already a vanguard. If you are are are having conversations on your team, maybe you have teams or whatever your product of choice is, and you just have a sandbox, and you share resources or you show really interesting, cool ways that you've used a tool. Any way that we can layer our competency in this area, I think, is gonna really help us as a field and as individuals. And I I think that employers are looking for graduates and for for employees who are willing to explore new technologies and who are willing to not just know how to do it, but know how to do it well. And so I think this report can help a lot of people. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: I'm gonna move us into our theme based questions for the season, which again is our past, present, and future of student affairs. So I have one question on each of those areas. So beginning with the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Claire Brady [00:35:46]: I'm, obsessed with community colleges. I'm absolutely obsessed with them. And I think that some of the most interesting work that's happening around student success, retention, and completion is actually happening on the ground at community colleges. And so I wanna shout from the rooftops to graduate students who are looking for topics for their dissertations and other projects that this is the rife area for us to spend more time. I think we assume they don't have as many resources, but I think they are scrappy and they figure it out. And I think that for folks that are really values aligned, who are really equity and inclusion aligned, so many of our community colleges are doing interesting stuff, and they don't know to share it or to sing it or to put it out there. They don't always have the resources to go to conferences and other events and kind of share the news of what they're doing. And so I would like us to see kind of a return to being curious and excited about the work that's happening at many of our thousands of community colleges in this country. Dr. Claire Brady [00:36:44]: I'm excited every year when the Aspen Awards come out because I wanna see and I wanna go to those websites and I wanna see those institutions. So I think we need a resurgence of excitement and interest around our community colleges. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: In the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Claire Brady [00:36:59]: So much. And it's being overshadowed by so much that isn't. I think that so much of the work around our student communications, how we engage with students, our student governments, our student organizations, I think so much of it is going really well. And it's being overshadowed in a lot of ways, in important ways, by what's happening politically and socially around the country. But I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there is some really great student leadership, student organizations, many of our identity based groups. I think there's just really great things happening, and I'm not sure I see that much of it anymore because I feel like a lot of it has been overshadowed. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:34]: And finally, in the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future? Dr. Claire Brady [00:37:39]: I'm gonna go on my AI track here. We need to be at the table. We need to be leaders in this area. We need to be voices in this area. We need to plant our flags. We need to be really focused around our vendor relationships and asking tough questions, and we need to be informed. And we can only do that if we admit to some degree that we are novices and that we hearken back to the ways we've done it five other times before. When the Internet first came out, what did we do? Right? When social media first came out, what did we do? When we had to go fully online at at the onset of the pandemic, what did we do? When we put calculators in math class, what did we do? As student affairs folks, we centered the student, and we centered the student experience and student learning. Dr. Claire Brady [00:38:20]: And we figured it out. We we iterated sometimes. We did things not perfectly, and we we got it right eventually. And I think we need to have that same philosophy around artificial intelligence. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:30]: And it's so interesting too because it feels a little bit akin to when social media first came out and university, like, what do we do with this thing? And eventually figured out how to harness social media for highlighting student experience and admissions and a whole bunch of other things. So we're probably there again. Dr. Claire Brady [00:38:44]: We are. I brought a board of trustees and a group of students and a group of faculty and a cabinet into a room, pulled out laptops, pulled out computers, and they couldn't believe how little of the AI work was related to their academics. It was entertainment, it was poetry, it was music, it was design, it was silly, it was fun, And about 15% of it had anything to do with school. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:06]: Again, the report is the transformational potential of artificial intelligence recommendations for student affairs leaders. We'll put that in our show notes for you. But also, if you just Google NASPA AI report, it'll pop right up for you, and you can access access the report with or without a membership. Though, of course, we'd love it if you become a NASPA member if you were not. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:30]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back again this week in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. NASPA recently announced all of the award winners that will be recognized at the NASPA annual conference, including the twenty twenty five Melvene D. Hardy dissertation of the year winners. The winner this year was Lisa Janick from Westchester University of Pennsylvania with her dissertation institutional factors associated with closing the equity gap in six year graduation rates at public four year universities. A big congratulations goes out to Doctor. Janek for her work on this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:08]: The runner-up this year was Doctor. Brandy Probst from Elon University with her dissertation Out Here Fighting for My Life, exploring the experiences of black women, student affairs professionals, and critical incidents in workplace relationships with white women at historically white institutions. If you are going to be attending the NASPA annual conference, you'll be able to learn more about the dissertation of the year winner as well as this whole process. And I encourage you that if you're currently in the dissertation phase of a doctorate or working on one in the future to consider submitting for this prestigious award in the future. Today, I also wanna put a shout out to a book that was published a while back but is still so important today. That is a book in the NASPA bookstore called dismantling hazing in Greek letter organizations effective practices for prevention, response and campus engagement. This was published by Jason Meriwether and Associates. In this book, they offer practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in various contexts. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:16]: Why is this important? Well, more than half of college students are hazed in the process of joining student organizations, while seven out of every ten students who pledge or rush a fraternity or sorority experience experience some form of hazing or violence. In recent years, numerous student deaths caused by hazing have called into question the value of these organizations while college leaders seek solutions that keep students safe. This book offers practical strategies to address the complexities of hazing culture and the challenges associated with recruitment and initiation in varying context. Each chapter focuses on the nuanced elements of hazing within sorority and fraternity subcultures and explores the hidden harms inside these secretive and tradition laden systems. I encourage you to check this out if you work with organizations, if you work with fraternities and sororities. This book is a powerful book and definitely one that will help you in your own professional practice in working with the students on your own campuses. You can find this book on the NASPA website. Go to NASPA.org, click on publications, and head over to the bookstore. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:23]: Finally, today, the twenty twenty five NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference is happening June in Salt Lake City, Utah. 20 20 5 NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference is a dynamic professional development event designed to provide mid level student affairs professionals with the opportunity to engage and learn with colleagues and senior student affairs administrators. During this two and a half day conference, participants will gain insights about promising practices to further develop professional competencies, networking and supervisory skills, strategies to improve professional practice and network to advance your career. The mid level administrators conference is designed for student affairs professionals who serve in roles between but not including entry level positions and AVP and the equivalent roles. Additionally, professionals who have been serving in entry level roles for at least five years are also welcome to attend. If you're looking for a powerful mid level experience to connect yourself with others in the field that are going through some of the things like yourself, I highly encourage you to consider this conference. Early registration ends on April 23 with regular registration ending on May 19. You can find out more by going to the NASPA website, click on events and find the Mid level Administrators Conference right there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:41]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:01]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Claire, we have reached our lightning round, and I have seven questions for you in ninety seconds. Are you ready to do this? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:18]: I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:19]: Alright. Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:19]: Longtime listener, first time caller. I'm so excited for this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:22]: Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:27]: Something Motown. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:28]: Number two. When you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:31]: I grew up in Canada, and I wanted to be a Zamboni driver. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:34]: Number three. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:37]: Allen Schott, Michigan State University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:40]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:42]: Blogs. It's all blogs now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:44]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately? Philo. Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:52]: Smartless. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Claire Brady [00:45:57]: I just wanna give a shout out to Sherry Rowland at Tallahassee Community College, who was my very first AI client, and she was absolutely transformative for me in helping me to kinda shape my business to move towards an AI consulting group. So I wanna thank her. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:13]: Well, Claire, I know that I've learned so much from you, and I really enjoyed reading the report myself. If anyone would like to connect with you after this episode airs, how can they find you? Dr. Claire Brady [00:46:23]: I'd love to hear from folks. So my website is doctorclairebrady.com. My Instagram is doctor claire brady, and I am obsessed and love LinkedIn. So please find me on LinkedIn. I'm also the moderator of AI in Higher Education, private group on LinkedIn. We have about 500 members where we share resources and connect in a community of folks who are interested in AI. So I'd love to have more folks join that group and find me on LinkedIn. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:49]: Claire, it's been a pleasure learning from you today. Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us. Dr. Claire Brady [00:46:54]: Thank you. I've loved it. Really appreciate it, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:02]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Navigating Grief and Supporting Colleagues in Student Affairs with Dr. Melinda Stoops 43:54

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In the demanding world of student affairs, professionals are adept at supporting students through crises, but often overlook the need to extend similar care to each other. In this week's "SA Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Melinda Stoops delve into the complexities of navigating grief and loss within the field, offering strategic insights for supporting colleagues during challenging times. Understanding the Impact of Grief in Higher Education Grief is a ubiquitous human experience, but its management within the professional environment, especially in student affairs, can be particularly delicate. Dr. Stoops emphasizes the significance of acknowledging grief and understanding that everyone processes it differently. She encourages a culture of empathy and grace, suggesting that it's critical to check in with colleagues and provide space for them to express their needs without imposing judgments or preconceived notions. Core Principles for Supporting Colleagues Dr. Stoops and Dr. Creighton highlight the importance of treating individuals as whole beings, which is fundamental both in student interactions and among colleagues. This holistic approach considers physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being, recognizing that well-being is multifaceted and interconnected. Dr. Stoops shares practical strategies such as simple breathing exercises to help manage stress. Techniques like "rainbow breathing" and "box breathing" can be powerful tools for grounding oneself in the present moment, which can be crucial between back-to-back meetings or during particularly stressful periods. Practical Strategies to Recenter and Refocus Returning to fundamental wellness practices can significantly benefit professionals in student affairs. Dr. Stoops suggests incorporating short walks, breathing exercises, and even hydration breaks into the daily routine to maintain focus and manage stress. These strategies are designed to be quick and easily integrated into a busy workday, offering immediate relief and aiding in long-term well-being. Supporting Supervisees and Supervisors The relationship dynamics between supervisors and supervisees can play a crucial role in managing grief. Supervisors are advised to adopt a compassionate and flexible approach, allowing space for supervisees to express their needs and emotions. It's important for supervisors to be vulnerable and share their experiences appropriately, while maintaining professional boundaries and focusing on the needs of their team. Similarly, supervisees are encouraged to check in with their supervisors, acknowledging the power dynamics but also offering support. This can help create a supportive and empathetic office culture where everyone feels valued and understood. The Importance of Peer Support Peer-to-peer support is equally vital. Colleagues should feel comfortable checking in with each other and offering help, understanding that different individuals may need varying levels of support. Simple gestures of checking in can make a significant difference, reinforcing a sense of community and collective care. Moving Forward with Compassion As student affairs professionals, it's essential to foster an environment where everyone feels supported, especially during times of grief and loss. By adopting these strategies and understanding the profound impact of empathy and compassion, the field can not only navigate the challenges of today but also build a resilient and caring community for the future. Emphasizing the importance of holistic well-being, strategic check-ins, and compassionate support, this episode of "SA Voices from the Field" provides invaluable insights for higher education professionals striving to support each other through life's inevitable challenges. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Just a quick note that we recorded this episode prior to Melinda announcing her departure from Boston College. So while she references her work at BC quite a lot, she just wanted to let you know that she has moved to a new professional opportunity. Today on SA Voices from the Field, we're going to be having a conversation with one of our colleagues about how we navigate tragedy and loss amongst ourselves. We spend so much time doing this work with students that we often don't stop and think about how to support each other in the process or when things happen that are just part of the human experience. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:58]: So I'm pleased to welcome Doctor. Melinda Stoops. As a licensed psychologist, she entered higher education over twenty years ago as the director of a college counseling center. For the past fifteen years, she's served in various administrative roles in student affairs, including as dean of students, associate vice president for student affairs, and deputy title nine coordinator. Melinda prioritizes student well-being in all of her work and is particularly interested in increasing cross campus partnerships to achieve a collective impact on student health and wellness. She earned a PhD in counseling psychology from Indiana State University and an MA in counseling psychology from Radford University, as well as a BA in psychology from Smith College. Melinda, welcome to SA Voices from the Field. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:01:37]: Thanks so so much, Jill. I'm excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:39]: We are very glad to be talking to you today about the very important topic and probably under discussed topic in our field around how we support our colleagues going through trauma and tragedy because we know that in our profession, we're seeing an increase in that. We've been seeing that for quite a few years now. But before we dive into our main topic today, we always like to get to know our guests by asking you, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:02:02]: Oh, that's a great question. I entered higher education as a director of a counseling center. I'm a psychologist. And so when I graduated, I worked in a couple of different settings and just really missed higher education and was fortunate to be able to be hired as the director of a counseling center and then over time was promoted and ended up making my way back into the mental health focus through my work with student health and wellness. And so I've been serving as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College for a number of years and really find it's a nice combination as a psychologist and as a higher ed administrator. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: What does your portfolio currently include? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:02:46]: Right now, I oversee the areas related to student health and wellness, which includes university health services, primary care sports medicine, the counseling center, the center for student wellness, and I also work closely with a care team that works with students impacted by sexual violence. And I also serve as the university deputy title line coordinator. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:08]: That's a lot on your plate right now. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:03:10]: It is. There are some days where it feels like more than others, but that's the nature of the beast, I guess, in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:16]: And eventually, we'll do another episode on the title nine updates. It's been a minute, but I would imagine that we're gonna see some additional changes to the proposed rules at some point very soon, and that will be another set of challenges for us to navigate as a field. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:03:31]: Definitely. That feels like it's a constantly moving piece of work that we need to adjust to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: Yeah. For about the last twenty years or so, I think there's been a rule change every time there's been an administration change. But with all of the kind of well-being components on your plate right now, our profession is really wholly and solely focused on the weld wellness and well-being of our students, which is where we've been focused and where we should be focused. But oftentimes, we don't necessarily translate or apply that same care or those same strategies of care to our teams or our staff members or those of us that interact regularly with trauma. And that happens for a lot of us in student affairs. But also we have our own worlds that are going at the same time as we're exhibiting care for our students. And I know personally we've had quite a bit of loss in the field as of late, loss and tragedy, and just people navigating their own personal needs around, trauma and grief. And so I'm looking forward to talking to you today about how we can translate some of that work, and apply that to, the people that we work with day in and day out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:36]: So why don't we start with what are some of the core principles that you think are most critical when we're working with students in a care setting, not from a psychological perspective? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:04:46]: Not from a clinical perspective. So in terms of our work with students, I think we look at student and well-being as as a whole person, that well-being encompasses many different elements. So a lot of times we think about that as a physical element of well-being, but also emotional, spiritual. There's a lot of different dimensions of well-being, and we'll see different models for that. Some have seven dimensions, some have nine. But the bottom line is they all recognize that we have more than one way of being healthy. And so it's really when we look at an individual's wellness, whether it's a student or an individual who's not a student, we really wanna look at it in terms of the whole person. And also, really, as much as we can from a prevention framework and and not waiting for things to escalate it and get to the point where it becomes an emergency, but really look at it early on. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:05:38]: If if someone's not doing well, what can we do to help them take care of themselves and and learn good self care as a foundation for everything moving forward? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:48]: You mentioned there's a couple of models with varying dimensions. Do you have any models that you particularly rely on in your day to day practice? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:05:55]: Well, here at Boston College, our Center for Student Wellness does a great job of prevention work, and they really simplified it into just keeping it in three areas. And so they drill down from from other models, but basically trying to get students to think about wellness in terms of mind, body and soul. And so it's an easy way to just zoom in and make it simple rather than having to remember seven to nine different areas. And so if you think about the mind can be stress management, it can be self talk, mental health, things you do, the body, of course, it's a physical body, and then the soul, what nourishes your soul, whether it's something spiritual or whether it's something like being with your friends can nourish your soul as well. And so we keep it very basic in terms of those three things, and it's really easy to keep those in mind as as you're thinking about self care. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:46]: Are there any tried and true practices that you have in the wellness space and the prevention lens that have served you really well over the years and through generations of college students? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:06:55]: I think the things that serve us the best are the most basic, most simple things. The the more complicated you get, like anything, it's it's harder to pick up and harder to carry on and continue with. So one thing that I think is a good tried and true that is really helpful is the idea of breathing and doing this and teaching it in different kinds of ways. So there are something very simple called rainbow breathing, where you picture almost moving your finger along a rainbow and that you breathe in as you go up the rainbow and then breathe out as you go down, if that makes sense, the arc of the rainbow. And so you can do that where you follow each color on the rainbow and then repeat it. And the idea is it's having you sort of slow your breathing and focus on your breathing. There's a technique called box breathing, which is also very popular right now. And it's the idea of picturing a box and you breathe in on one side, breathe out on the other, and hold your breath at one point. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:07:54]: And the bottom line is the idea of having people really focus on their breathing and controlling your breathing can be really helpful in a couple of ways. One, it makes you focus on the present. So you're not distracted by everything else that's going on, what's bothering you at the moment, but just really being attuned to the moment. And, also, it can be really helpful in managing anxiety, for example. Sometimes when you're anxious, your breathing can be affected. And so, again, slowing your breathing, relaxing can help you calm down in the moment. So I think that's something that you see a lot of people doing is a lot of practitioners focusing on breathing exercises. And, again, even thinking of simple things you can do with movement, we're not focused on go out and run that marathon or go out and run three miles. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:08:41]: It's like just move, go for a walk in between classes or just get up and stretch or and be you know, the things that you can do that are short and sort of get you moving and help you feel better in the short run. So I think there are more complicated things that that we can do, and and there are things that certainly, we teach our students in lots of different ways. But the idea of just these short things that can make you feel better in the moment can go a long way. Also, one thing that we do here at BC, and and I know is becoming increasingly popular, is the idea of health coaches, but not like you picture a coach at a gym or where your team, but student peer coaches that can talk to you about nutrition, exercise, stress management, and short, like, half hour sessions and give you some tips peer to peer on it. And students have really found that helpful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:34]: Would you mind taking us through a rainbow breathing exercise? I think that might be really valuable for our listeners. They can probably do this wherever they're listening. Sure. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:09:42]: I'd be happy to do so. So one thing you can do, if it's helpful for you, is to actually take a pencil and piece of paper and draw a rainbow. And so I would suggest if you're doing that, that you picture maybe five arcs on the rainbow just to keep it simple. So five lines if you picture. And if you don't draw it out, just picture the five lines and picture how at the top of the rainbow, the top one is bigger than the one below it if you picture and so the how it goes smaller. And so what you're going to do is take your finger, and in a minute, we'll do this together. But you're going to start at the bottom left corner of the rainbow, and you're going to trace the arc of the rainbow and trace it all the way back down to the bottom where you're on the other side. And then on that side, what you can do is then keep your finger on that side and go to the next arc right below it, and then you're going to trace that up and all the way across to the other side. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:10:43]: And then you're going to do that again for the smaller one, and then we'll do that along the five. And how I like to do it is tracing it up and go down, and then start at the bottom and go back up to the top. So you sort of have two cycles of the rainbow. And so when you're at the top arc, I'll breathe in. And then when you get to the top of whatever arc you're on, you breathe out. So I'll take you through it right now, and I'll trace a rainbow and just picture tracing a rainbow along with me. And I will walk you through it verbally for the first round, and then the second round, I'll let you pace yourself with the breathing, if that makes sense. So we're going to start with the outer. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:11:24]: So you're going to go up the rainbow, breathe in. Now we're at the top and breathe out. Now move over to the next one and breathe in and breathe out. Now we're gonna go up, breathe in, Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. And breathe out. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:12:11]: And now do it on your own starting with the inner arc, and then I'll do my own and we'll stop together. Just keep tracing your rainbow. Hey. How did that work for you, Jill? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:52]: I feel very relaxed suddenly. I like learning in these ways because while we do this for the benefit of our listeners, I also get the benefit of it as we're going along. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:02]: Yeah. I do too. Like, when I stop and do it, I'm like, okay. Now I can relax. And so you don't necessarily need a rainbow to do this. As I said, you just trace it on on any surface with your finger or even picture it in the air. But a rainbow is nice to look at when you're doing it as well. And really, you're just inhaling and exhaling and focusing on your breathing. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:22]: And that's really the trick to it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:23]: So this is one thing that we can all do as people to come back to the moment or to the present when there's stress going on, when things are are hard and it's such a fast thing we can do. I know it's very, very difficult for for those of us who have, like, back to back calendars or are just running from crisis to crisis or difficult moment to difficult moment. And this takes thirty seconds, one minute to recenter. So I think that's a good thing. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:13:47]: Yeah. And that's an excellent point if you think about it. And if you're in back to back meetings and someone says, oh, you know, there's a student here to see you. You can say, tell them I'll be right out. And if you needed to take a minute to do the rainbow breathing, no one would even notice that there was this huge delay in you coming out. So it really is a nice way to regroup between meetings if you need to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:07]: Are there other strategies that you might offer for professionals to find that moment to bring their best selves to the next student they're working with? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:14:15]: Well, that's a great question. I think just walking is a great one. And you don't have to go out and do a big walk. Like, even if it's just doing a loop around the office or walking downstairs real quick and right back up. Again, it gets your heart going. If you're feeling sort of tired, it'll get your blood flowing and make you feel alert afterwards. So I feel like that's something that can be really helpful too to just help you get moving and regroup. And, also, if if you're distracted by something that's on your mind, it can be good because when you're walking, you'll probably just notice things around you, which can be a different type of distraction. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:14:51]: So as you're walking, you can intentionally say, okay. I'm gonna pay attention to what I'm hearing and and what I'm seeing as I'm walking to just distract myself from whatever is is in the back of my mind that I wanna leave behind me for the next meeting. And so that's another great example as well. And also just stop and get a drink of water. We all talk about being hydrated, but I think also just, again, focusing on the physical sensation of drinking something can, again, draw your attention to that. So what you're trying to do is sort of ground yourself in different kinds of ways that could be helpful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:23]: So as I mentioned at the top of the episode, one of the goals in us introducing your voice to the SA Voices audience was to give us some some good strategies for how to navigate tragedy amongst ourselves. Because we know how to do it when we're supporting students. We don't necessarily know how to do it when we're supporting each other. So can you talk to us a little bit about how that works in your world and any advice you have for those of us that are working through both elements? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:15:52]: Grief, whether it's a form of a death or some type of other type of tragedy is really, really hard. And I think first of all, especially in the in the workforce where everyone brings something different to the plate, and we don't know what someone's past experience in in dealing with loss has been like or what they're coming in with. So I think, one, recognizing that and giving each other grace to sort of be themselves and to take care of themselves in the way they need to take care of themselves, I think can be really, really helpful for starters. And I also think checking in with people and and how are you doing, what do you need, how's your day going can be really, really helpful. So for starters, I think it's really about checking in with folks and recognizing that what I need could be very different from what you may need or what someone else does. And so if they say, oh, I need this, my job isn't their question whether they really need that or not. It's like, okay. Thank you for telling me, and let's see if we can get that for you. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:16:59]: So I think the caretaking, there can be lots of different layers to it and with different people in the workforce, lots of different ways that it plays out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:08]: That checking in with people, I think, is is such a critical moment, especially if you're in a supervisory capacity to be able to say, I'm here as a human being to a human being first and foremost rather than a supervisor. And we know that we can't take that identity off. That's not something that we can that we can put to the side just from the environment that we're occupying, but it's a good space to be able to to do that. And also, I think gives the person being asked the space to answer that question how they feel, feel like they have the capacity to answer that question. So I'm wondering if you have advice as a supervisor, how you would approach that knowing that every person being asked that question is gonna have a different sense of boundaries at work or a different sense of how they would feel safe responding to that question. Yeah. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:17:48]: That's a great question. I mean, I think first of all, you're right that at work, we all have different boundaries. We have different relationships with our supervisees that even though someone may supervise five people, for example, their relationships are different with those five people. And so I don't think there's any type of canned script you should use. But I think recognizing your relationship, I think one, it's important to acknowledge it and to check-in about it. And someone might say, I'm fair, I'm fine, or I don't want to talk about it. And I think we respect that if they don't want to talk about it. But you can also say, well, if at any point you feel like you wanna talk about it, that I'm here for you, or here are some other resources and letting them know what resources exist. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:18:32]: And more and more you see colleges and universities having EAP programs or someone on campus that's more of a confidential resource if they need to talk to someone. So there can be good resources you can point someone to if they don't want to talk to you as a supervisor, there could be someone else who feels more comfortable engaging with you about it. And I think this is where I think you have to rely on your judgment in the moment about what makes the most sense. But if something is a recent loss, then maybe that supervision session just you just need to listen to your your staff person talk about what they're needing and and how they're grieving. And if there's one or two things you need to take care of, then we can get to those quickly. But, really, if this is what you need today from me is to listen to you and to support you, I can do that even though that's not what we normally do for the whole session. That's okay today because it makes perfect sense this is what you need. Also, though, I think if something's happening in the workplace that you as a supervisor also likely impacted. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:19:35]: And so I think that's where it can be a balance where I think one, it's important to take care of yourself and you find out what you need to do to take care of yourself, whether it's talking to someone on campus or someone off campus. But also, it's fine to acknowledge with someone you're supervising that you're having a hard time to, it doesn't mean you should take that whole session and and make it about you because that's not what they need right then. But I think it's okay to be like, yeah, I'm really hurting too. And, like, if they say something that actually resonates with you or you had a similar reaction, I think it's okay to share that because they're not your client that, like, if you're a therapist, they're not your client or they're not the student that you take care of, you're in a different role. And I think being genuine with them can be really helpful as you're dealing with things as well. But being mindful that as you meet with them, that you are their supervisor, and really, it should be more about helping them than them helping you, if that makes sense. Because you can get help from your supervisor or from somewhere else. So it's not that you have to hold everything yourself, but sort of recognizing the the different roles and giving them permission to do what they need to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]: And at the same time, display a willingness to be vulnerable if it's the right thing for that relationship. Yeah. Given that you're clinically trained and so many of your team members are, what advice do you have for others in student affairs who have clinical training, who are trying to offer support in the moment in that supervision relationship without exceeding the boundaries of what that is and maybe accidentally or inadvertently sliding into that clinical space when that's not what you meant to do? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:21:10]: Oh, that's a great question because I think boundaries are really, really important. And so I think it's one thing to say to someone, you've seemed like you're really struggling this week, and and I'm concerned about you. And I want to check-in and see how you're doing. And And is there anything we can do here that would be helpful for you as opposed to taking on the clinical role and trying to dive deeper into what is it that's distressing them so much and and helping them work through it. That's not your role. But I think your role can be to acknowledge it and to help them connect with resources, which are not you. Like, you're not the therapy support you're advising them to. It's to the EAP. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:21:53]: And they may choose to say, no. I don't wanna see the EAP, and that's their right as well. And so I really think it's really important to be mindful of your role. With that said, I think people with a clinical background, as part of our training, we have talked a lot about boundaries and and and knowing our role. And so I think that just that foundational training is really helpful in just reminding yourself that they're not your clients and that even if you're not practicing, that they're not even your student in a way, you may take care of them in a different kind of way, that they're your colleague. They may be someone you're supervising. They may be just a colleague across the hall who wants to talk to you. And so be mindful that I think we bring things to the table that can be helpful, such as strong listening skills and being empathetic and knowing of resources in a way that some other people might not, but we're not there to help them work through the grief process. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:22:53]: That's not our role. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Let's talk about it from a peer to peer perspective. Maybe it's your direct colleague or somebody that is in a different department that you that you wanna be able to check-in with because you know something's happened. And maybe the distance of that relationship is different. Right? We all have colleagues at work who we're very close to from a work perspective, and we have colleagues that were maybe just more adjacent to, and that's pretty normal, especially in a large matrix organization. What advice and tips do you have for checking in and following up and providing support, knowing that grief is something that carries longevity. And in my experience, anyway, a lot of times people can be very strong at the beginning with checking in. But as we get further and further away from the moment where the the critical event occurred, we sometimes kind of back away just over time. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:23:37]: Yeah. And I think at some level, that's natural that people's needs may change and people may need fewer check ins as time goes on. But I do think that, again, thinking how everyone's different, we can't necessarily make assumptions. So for starters, I'd say checking in is better than not checking in. That even if someone's like, I'm fine, I don't need to talk about it. At some level, there's often the appreciation that you checked in even if they don't wanna talk about it. Because an absence of a check-in might signify like, they might think you don't care or that you're not thinking of them. So I think it's okay to check-in. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:24:13]: It's also okay to say, you can check-in and not know what to say. You don't have to have the right words, and you could even be transparent and say, I'm checking in. I don't really know what to say or what you need, but I've been thinking about you, and I'm just checking in on how you're doing. And and that can go a long way as well that as a peer, you don't have to have the answers. You don't have to know anything about helping them other than just acknowledging that you're there and and asking them if there's anything you can help with or or what do they need. And I think that's really important. I think sometimes people avoid checking in because they worry they'll say the wrong thing or they won't know what to do when I think most times that check-in in and of itself is really, really meaningful. And you're right that over time, we naturally stop checking in, and and that sort of trails off. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:25:04]: And there's a point where people don't need check ins anymore. Now with that said, everyone's different. So I think if there are times where there might be a natural point to check-in. So for example, it might be that this person had a certain role on campus, and there was an event that came up that would remind everyone of of this person because they're not there to do that, that might be a natural point to check-in and say, hey, I was thinking about so and so today because of this, and how are you doing? And so sometimes I think there are natural ways of checking in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:36]: Let's go for the kind of the third version of this relationship, which is you're the supervisee and, you know, your supervisor has experienced something maybe you haven't. What is the the role of the supervisee in this case, knowing that that power dynamic does exist? And how can that check-in feel most appropriate or be best acknowledged? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:25:54]: And I think, again, the idea of checking it in and just saying, for example, if it's a loss they experienced that you didn't, is saying, I know you were close to this person, or I know we work closely with this person, or just sort of acknowledging that that relationship exists. And I just wanted to check-in and see how you're doing. And, you know, I know that that's your supervisor. But, again, unless it's your first day of work, you have no relationship with your supervisor. The idea is that you're checking in and asking them how they're doing. I think that, again, they would appreciate the check-in. They might not go into a lot of details and spend the whole time talking about it. But I think just even acknowledging that and saying, like, hey. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:26:32]: I'm thinking of you and even just something concrete. Like, if there's anything you want me to help with work wise, I'm happy to pick something up if you need a little time. And so, again, giving them an option of them saying, oh, you know what? At the end of this week, there's a this event I'm supposed to go to. And if you could do that instead, it would be great for me to just be able to leave and go home on time that day. And so I think sometimes just there are different ways of helping and sometimes the gift of time and being able to step away so that you can process things is really helpful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:03]: Are there any other strategies or kind of approaches that you'd like to share when we're navigating grief and tragedy amongst ourselves? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:27:10]: It's so tough. And I'll go back to, again, that everyone is different. So I think we need to just be very careful not to make any judgments about how someone's responding. And that could be on either side that there may seems look like there's someone who's not really impacted by it when in fact, we don't know what they're thinking or feeling, and we shouldn't make assumptions about someone else's experience. And so also on the flip side, grief, there's no there's enough timeline where I can tell you, oh, in two months, you're gonna feel better or in six months or whatever. And so everyone agrees differently and on different timelines. And so if you may feel that you're doing better, and starting to move forward and not feel sad every time you come into the office, but that doesn't mean everyone else is moving forward. And so I think we need to recognize that we have a shared experience. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:28:01]: But yet within that shared experience, everyone is in their own timeline and their own process. And so being accepting of that is really, really important. And these points in in the grief cycle can also you may feel you're doing better and then something happens that can set you back a bit. So for example, one thing I lost a colleague years ago. She passed away suddenly. And one thing that struck me at the time was when her office was cleaned out, we hit me that she had passed away because we had her office hadn't been touched for a few weeks after her passing, and then everything got cleaned out. And seeing the empty office was sort of bringing up everything again. And so things like that or even work tasks needing to be divided or do you bring someone in the interim role? There can be lots of things that that sort of step backwards as we step forward. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:28:54]: So recognizing that we certainly can make strides forward, and then there may be things that come up in the workforce that make us take a couple steps back. And everyone again is different in that respect. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:05]: Thank you for sharing that. Oh, you're welcome. I'm gonna move us into our theme based questions for the season. Again, our theme this season is the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I've got one question for you on each theme. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:29:25]: That's a big question. I think the idea that student affairs is often pegged as the group that is responsible for all things students outside of the classroom, and that's a big answer. But I think sometimes when there are challenges with students or even just someone's, like, saying, well, our students go home on the weekends. You gotta get them to stay here. You know, it it falls on student affairs. Right? I think, like anything, as we move along in higher ed, I think efforts are being made more and more to undo silos. And that goes with student affairs in our tasks, that a lot of our tasks and our skill set are specifically focused on student development and how to help our students grow and thrive, but also it truly takes a village. And actually, I think sometimes the best responses to some challenging situations. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:30:24]: And I think this most, like, most recently with all of the protests and demonstrations last year is really, like, a whole campus effort. And so I think that's one thing of letting go of is thinking, okay, that sometimes a whole community resolution to challenging situations is better than any one division. So that's a long answer to one thing to maybe get rid of, but it's shifting away from the silos. I think it's something that a higher ed in general is doing and is moving in a great direction. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:30:54]: I think going back to health and wellness, I think that really at this point in time, there is so much focus in a positive way on student well-being. I think sadly, it came because of the pandemic and that we had talked for years about the mental health crisis of students. But I think the pandemic shifted that in a way that it was the mental health crisis, but also acknowledging the power of relationships and the idea of loneliness and social isolation and the digital environment, which can sometimes be unhealthy. And so I think as a result, what we're seeing is much more of a proactive prevention approach and also more of a public health lens in looking at student well-being, which I think is excellent. And I'm really excited to see that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:45]: And the future. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:31:51]: I think if talking specifically about student affairs now, I think we really need to look at how we develop our newer professionals in the field. And what I mean by this is is we have a lot of wonderful people come in. They're excited about the work. And you do see newer professionals, I think more so than in the past. And I don't have data to support this. So this is just my anecdotal piece, but feeling like more often than in the past, they're choosing to leave higher ed after a few years. And I think there's lots of things that can play a role into that. It could be that maybe they find a role elsewhere where the salary's higher or they may say, oh, if if I go work here, I can work remote all the time, and I don't have to come into campus, or I don't have to be on call. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:32:40]: And so there's always a reason why anyone could leave any job. But I think there's so many rewards in higher education and in student affairs that outweigh these other things. And I think what we really need to do is when newer professionals come to the field and start that we really need to focus on supporting them and as they grow into their roles to going back to the the check-in piece to check-in with people to provide professional development so that they see a path forward to and get excited about training opportunities, mentoring relationships, professional development opportunities, I think that can go a long way down the road. And so I think moving forward, that's something we really need to do. We have a lot of people in student affairs retiring or close to retirement age. And as we think about the profession, it's really important as the next generation moves in that they really love this work and stick around. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:42]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Chris (Producer) [00:33:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The twenty twenty five TPE, better known as the placement exchange, will be having its spring placement career fair coming up on February 20 with interviews happening on March 3 through the seventh. Registration for these events closes on February 17. This spring placement event brings together highly talented student affairs candidates and top employers in a fully virtual setting. Spring placement offers a unique opportunity for personalized candidate screening and interview experiences. If you are currently looking for your next position or your first position, TPE is a great place to go to be able to be able to find opportunities and to be able to search further for your future career. If you wanna find out more, go to the placementexchange.org. Chris (Producer) [00:34:41]: That's all one word, the placementexchange.org. Just recently, the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education put out a call for manuscripts for the 2027 special issue. The Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education is going to be having a special issue called Diasporic Black Women, Global Insights for the Future of Higher Education. This special issue aims to elevate the perspectives of Black women who are epistemologically committed to knowledge generation in and through the global South. By curating articles that center diasporic black women's insight and theorizations, the journal is seeking to explore solutions and possibilities for a more equitable and emancipatory future in higher education. All NASPA members should have received a email about this. And if you have a manuscript that you would like to submit, manuscripts must be a maximum of 25 double spaced pages and follow APA style and submissions are due by 06/15/2025. Another professional development opportunity that's coming up is the Collaborate twenty twenty five conference. Chris (Producer) [00:35:51]: Collaborate twenty twenty five is an innovative global partnership in student affairs and services between NASPA, IUCAA, which is the European University College Association, and SAI or Student Affairs Ireland. Collaborate twenty twenty five will be hosted by Munster Technological University. This conference will be happening June 18 through June 20 in Cork, Ireland. And it is an amazing opportunity to be able to bring together people from both Europe, The United States, and beyond to be able to come together to find new ways to work collaboratively together in helping our students succeed. Highly encourage you to check out this great professional development experience. You can find out more at iuca,euca,.eu/collaborate-2020five. To stay on the international theme, another international conference that's coming up is the nineteenth annual Manasa NASPA conference, which is happening April 27 to April 30 in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. The MANASA NASPA conference provides student affairs professionals with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students. Chris (Producer) [00:37:02]: MANASA, which stands for Middle East, North Africa, South, as well as NYU Abu Dhabi, invites you to the nineteenth annual MANASA NASPA conference that's going to be held in The United Arab Emirates on Sunday, April 27 through Wednesday, 04/30/2025. This three day conference is an opportunity to connect with colleagues regionally and abroad. The topic of the conference this year is Beyond Borders, exploring global and local perspectives on student experience in the Manassa area. Student affairs is playing a vital role in shaping students' experiences in higher education institutions. The nineteenth Manassa Conference Organizing Committee invites you to participate in this great conference that's going to bring together people from around the world and help you to be able to identify new opportunities to connect with your students on a different level and connect with students globally on a different level. Highly encourage you to check out the conference for yourself. There is a schedule at a glance that is out on the NASPA website. If you go under events on the NASPA website, you'll be able to find out more on this conference as well as being able to register for the conference. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:14]: We currently are in the regular registration rate, so you can still register to attend this amazing conference. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:35]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:46]: Chris, thank you so much for helping us learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Melinda, we've got our lightning round for you. So I've got seven questions for you to answer in about ninety seconds. You ready to roll? I am. Alright. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:04]: Oh, this is a tough question. I think it would be something from Hamilton, actually. I'm not sure which one, but something with a little attitude. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:15]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:19]: Maybe a nurse. I think I wanted to be a nurse back then. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:40:24]: There are a number of people I see as mentors, but I think the one that has had the greatest impact me, this is not lightning round, but I'll make it quick, is a former supervisor of mine years ago who has since retired, doctor Suzanne Conley at Framingham State University because of two things. One, she saw potential in me. She helped me get recognized for my work, and she was very transparent. And I always appreciated knowing what she was thinking, and I feel like I have carried that transparency with me. And also, she had a great sense of humor, and I also feel like I bring humor more to my work. So she say shaped me into the professional I am. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:07]: Okay. In the spirit of a read that makes me not stressed out and takes me away from work, I would say I would use anything by Stephen King as an escape from reality. And sometimes, you know, you see scenarios that you're like, as a student affairs professional, I could handle that. So that's my essential student affairs read. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:30]: Number five, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:33]: That's a tough question because I don't watch a lot of TV, but I've been watching Jeopardy almost every night for as long as I can remember. Even when I was in college, I recorded whatever. So I say Jeopardy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:45]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:49]: This is very sad, but I don't really listen to podcasts. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Ugh. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:41:58]: Well, I am going to give a shout out to my family. And that's David, my husband, and my daughter Molly, who is in college and my daughter Addison. And I say that because, you know, at the end of the day, they're there with me. And as we talk about sort of highs and lows in our life, like, they're not the highs and lows. I mean, they are, but they're also there for me in moments of highs and lows. And so talk about people who, you know, always have your back. So I'm shouting out to my family. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: Melinda, it's been so valuable to learn from you today and to hear your insights on what's going on to support each other in the space of student affairs. If anyone would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:42:38]: Sure. The best way to find me would be on LinkedIn, Melinda Stoops. You will see me right there, and I would be happy to connect with you and feel free to message me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:48]: Melinda, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Melinda Stoops [00:42:50]: Thanks, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:56]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@nasa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:35]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Global Insights on Student Affairs with International Master's Students 39:26

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Exploring Student Affairs with International Grad Students The field of student affairs is continuously evolving, adapting to diverse educational landscapes worldwide. In this week's Student Affairs Voices from the Field , hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton , we delve into the experiences and perspectives of six master's students from the hybrid master's course offered in collaboration with the European Council on Student Affairs (EECA) and NASPA . These students, hailing from various parts of Europe and beyond, share their insights on the past, present, and future of student affairs. Embracing the Past One recurring theme in the discussion was the value of preserving certain elements of student affairs' history. Simone Cameron Cohen emphasized the indispensable role of student voices in shaping university policies and support structures. She highlighted Ireland's robust student union organizational structure that ensures student representation in university governance, a system embedded in the nation’s legislation. Jake McGrew and Giacomo Bacarelli, on the other hand, pointed out the need to dissolve the silos between academic and student affairs. Jake stressed that combining these areas is crucial for holistic student support, a sentiment echoed by Giacomo who reflected on his personal experiences in Italy's developing student affairs landscape. This theme underscores the necessity of integrating student welfare into the broader educational framework, fostering an environment where academics and student services support each other. Current Trends in Student Affairs Currently, student affairs professionals worldwide are paying increased attention to student mental health and well-being. Simone noted that institutions are now better equipped with specialized services, from counseling to academic advising, emphasizing a holistic approach to student support. Jake expanded on this, mentioning the positive shift in student attitudes towards utilizing mental health services, even in regions where stigma was historically prevalent. Federico highlighted the importance of etiquette and institutional engagement in student affairs, advocating for attention to individual growth and freedom of thought, which is crucial in nurturing well-rounded individuals. Envisioning the Future Looking ahead, the consensus among the guests points towards increased collaboration and resource sharing across institutions. Simone and Giacomo both stressed the value of international cooperation, sharing best practices, and codifying these for broader implementation. This approach not only enriches the practices within individual institutions but also fosters a global network of support and innovation. Jake suggested that for regions like Continental Europe, there's a growing recognition of the importance of student affairs, leading to a greater acceptance and integration of these services within the educational framework. This trend is promising for the future development of student affairs in areas where the field is still emerging. Conclusion The insights from these international graduate students paint a picture of a dynamic and evolving field where student voices are paramount, mental health is at the forefront, and collaboration is key to future success. By learning from each other and breaking down traditional silos, student affairs professionals can better support the holistic development of students worldwide. As these emerging leaders in student affairs continue their journey, their experiences and innovative approaches will undoubtedly shape the future of the profession. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed professionals wherever you happen to be. This is season 12, continuing our journey through the past, present, and future of student affairs. I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome to a very special episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field. I'm thrilled today to be joined by six master's students who are currently enrolled in the hybrid master's course in collaboration with EECA, which is the European Council on Student Affairs and NASPA. This course is taught with the the great collaboration of LUNA University in Rome, and it's been my great privilege to teach the technology module for this course. As we're on the theme of past, present and future of student affairs, I wanted to introduce our listeners to the students who are taking this course and get their perspectives on what's important in student affairs today and why they're learning in this program. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: So I'm gonna introduce our students one by one as I see them. And so I'd love for you to tell us your name, your pronouns, and maybe where you are on planet Earth, including what you're doing for work right now. So, Jake, we'll start with you. Jake McGrew [00:01:18]: Hello, everyone. My name is Jake McGrew, hehim. I am American from Oregon, but I am currently living in Kyiv, Ukraine working at the student life office at American University Kyiv. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:29]: And we'll go to Simone. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:01:30]: Hi, everyone. My name is Simone Cameron Cohen, sheher. I'm based in Trinity College Dublin in Ireland, and I am the student welfare and support officer for the School of Medicine. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:01:39]: Giacomo. Hi. I'm Giacomo Bacarelli. I'm currently in, Terni, close to Rome, Italy. I work for the European University College Association where I am a project officer. Laura Malakowski [00:01:50]: Laura. Hello, everyone. I'm Laura Malakowski. I pronounce it differently. I'm from Lithuania, from Lithuania, Yale Science University, and now I am the Dean of Students. So mostly in my office, the students appear the main task, what we are working on and and looking for. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:08]: Federico. Federico [00:02:08]: I'm Federico. Hello, everyone. I take care of cultural activities in the Cuir College in Rome. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: And Lorenzo. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:02:17]: Hi to everyone. My name is, Lorenzo Caffurini. I am the head of the secretary of the co Leukini College in Brescia, Italy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Thank you all so much for agreeing to share your voice on the show today. Since we're on this theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, I always love featuring current master's students because you're the future of the profession. You're here because you wanted to learn a little bit more to bolster your professional identity and development. I'm hoping you can tell us why you chose to take this one year master's program and how it's changing the way that you look at your work. And anyone can jump in on that. Go ahead, Jake. Jake McGrew [00:02:56]: So my background is actually in teaching in high school and middle school teaching. I did that in The US as well as in Bulgaria. And so I moved to work at this university, American University, Kyiv, and I was put in charge of the student life office without having anyone around me who works for student life and no background in student life besides the normal student life you do as a teacher. So I really wanted some extra education, extra support, and more importantly, a network of other like minded student affairs professionals who I could work with and talk with and kind of bounce ideas off of. So that's mainly why I chose to be in this program for the education since I've never been in this position before as well as the network. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:36]: Simone, how about you? Simone Cameron Cohen [00:03:37]: Similarly to Jake, I'm kind of a new post holder. So while I've worked in the university for a lot of years, I have a background from some time ago in student support. This role is the first of its kind based in a school within the college. So, again, I was a little bit peerless. There are a few people obviously, there are several people doing student affairs, but the specificity of what I'm doing, it's not there yet. It's growing now. But to have a network of people at a European level, at international level is fantastic. Like that to be able to learn a little bit more of what's possible in terms of supports and procedures and ways to do things. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:04:15]: It's really great. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:16]: Yeah. I Giacomo Bacarelli [00:04:17]: am very young, so I start to work, like, one year and a half ago. So for me, this world is completely new. In Italy, the stress Fuelsa First is not so developed. So most of students don't know what student services mean. So for me, since I start to work in IUCAA, I started to read books about Fuelsa First, be updated to learn, but a master, I think it's very important to have a basic knowledge, know where to build your profession. So this is why, and also I'm involved because I'm one of the organizers as part of YUCA. This is why I'm the tutor. So it is a great opportunity to participate in the master, be involved in, in the organization. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:05:00]: And this is the motivation. Laura Malakowski [00:05:02]: Laura. I would say that in Lithuania, in a lot of our universities, we do have that support and advising of students, but we do not have that, like, evidence based. So this is, like, the chance, for us to get really good background, good knowledge all the practices, all the communication between different countries, universities, so it's a great value of if we want to flourish this help of our students. And the Master, the modules, it's like support, first of all, for those who are next, who will help our students. So it's a good chance for us. Federico [00:05:36]: This is my first work experience before I was a university student. I chose to train and work in this field because it's simply the most beautiful job in the world, and I want to grow for the guys I am lucky enough to work with every day. Also, my English is not very good, and this is a chance to learn by working. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:00]: I'm always incredibly impressed by anyone who can earn an educational degree in their second language. It's it's just amazing. Lorenzo. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:06:07]: For me, this master degree is a great opportunity. It allows me to know new realities and organize new cultural activity also from an international perspective. I have a degree in law, and the law the world of student affairs is new to me. It is agreed to be able to work every day in a college and to be able to deepen my knowledge with master degree of this level. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:35]: Now all of you are working at universities that are not based in North America, and most of the NASPA members are either in The US or Canada. So I'm wondering if you can share maybe one element of student affairs that is happening in the country where you're living and working that might be unique or might be much different than, what somebody working in North America might be experiencing. Jake, let's start with you. Jake McGrew [00:06:59]: So I come from The US, of course. So I have that background in interacting with student affairs as an American student. I never worked in the student affairs as an American, but as a student, I had a good feeling of what student affairs was. And in Ukraine, as I think in a lot of Europe, but even to, I think, to a higher extent is student affairs isn't really a thing here. It's very common just for students to go to class, do your classes, learn, and then go home. So that's been a challenge for me to not only and I have all Ukrainian students and Ukrainian staff. So I, as the sole person in the student life office, the director and the sole person, I've had to explain not only to students, but to staff and faculty the importance of student affairs and the reasons why we need to have mental health supports or reasons why we need to have strong student life. It's been fairly easy. Jake McGrew [00:07:53]: It hasn't been that much of a challenge. My university has been pretty open to that, which is good, but that's been a challenge. Not to mention, of course, the war and everything, but that's a completely different thing that is just always there for us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:05]: Limon, what's going on in Ireland? Simone Cameron Cohen [00:08:07]: So I suppose what I find, having been sort of been to The UK and Europe a bit, our student union organizational structure in Ireland is really, really strong and is very student led, and it is essential to how we govern our universities. They are there to challenge and push us, which is fantastic, and they're there to support their students. And it is written into our legislation that they must be on the governing bodies of our universities and must be allowed to contribute in a very real way. And for us, I think it's wonderful that that they really do still embrace that sense of the importance of organization in that kind of nineteen sixties sort of organization, protest, but also engagement, real engagement with the issues that are affecting them as students, either within the college, but also in the wider society and how they react to that and push issues forward. So that is something that is still really strong here, which we're quite proud of. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:10]: That co governance being actually baked into laws and policies in the nation is incredibly meaningful. And I I wish that more more governing bodies would make it a priority to put students in positions to be driving decisions about their education. That's really special. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:09:25]: It is. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:25]: I'm gonna go to Laura next. We'd like to know what's going on in Lithuania because our other three guests are all from Italy. So let's go to you first. Laura Malakowski [00:09:32]: Yeah. Thank you. I would say that we are trying to do as much as possible, like other countries or American universities are doing. I know that, when we were, inventing this student's appearance in in my university, I was told that, Laura, you know, students' dean office was established in American part of university. So I wouldn't say that we are doing something new and something unique. It would be unique because, my university is more a medical university. So some specific things are really specific for our students, their health, their mentality, their problems will be some kind of different. But, you know, everything that that support, that, trying to give the hope for them, I think it doesn't matter. Laura Malakowski [00:10:15]: Are you in US? Are you in Ireland? Or some work. Our students' fears, questions, challenges, they are almost everywhere the same. We have to work together for the flourishing of our students, so it doesn't matter. But Lithuania is doing, I think, the best of what what we can. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:31]: And finally, let's move over to what's going on that's unique in Italy. And any of the three of you, please feel free to chime in. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:10:37]: If I can permit, I'm live in Italy, and I work in Italy, but I work in a European association. So for me, it could be better to talk about Europe because Europe is, you know, several countries. So every reality is different, but we have a unique situation where to move from one county to another is very easy. We don't need much industrial authorization, documentation. We can move from Italy to France or to Ireland with the same document I use every day to go everywhere in my city, in my country. So this is very useful to create synergy amongst students for offices in Europe, to permit students to meet each other, to have an international dialogue, to discover great organization as the European Parliament Commission Bank and other excellence in new whatever in Europe. So this is something, that as Europe has and is very, very important to remember because a unique condition in the world, this possibility and this easy access to other culture, countries, languages. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:48]: And the way that you serve students being incredibly different as well because it lends itself to a much more multicultural environment, I would imagine. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:11:55]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:56]: And either Frederico or Lorenzo, do you have anything to add about the specificity of student affairs in Italy? Federico [00:12:02]: Yes. So I believe that compared to our way of managing life in the college, the possibility of comparing myself with country like America helps me to accompany the boys in their growth with a particular attention to each boy. Comparing students in their growth from boys to adults in is the most important thing we can do in, our life. I think this, giving trust to make people grow, this is what we do. This is our mission. And the hell in this international experience, I learned a lot in this sense. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:44]: Lorenzo, anything to add? Lorenzo Caffurini [00:12:46]: Yes. I'm, totally agree with Giacomo. And, for me in Italy, Student affairs are not very developed with respect, other countries. There are service, yes, but they are dislocated. So in our case, there are no specific offices or specialized staff. As a college of merit in Italy, we have an association that is creating a virtuous network of contacts. And, this all thanks, to EOCA, the European Association. And so we have a lot to learn of, these new matters. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:28]: I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme based questions for the season. So I have three questions. One on the past, one on the present, and one on the future of student affairs. And I'd love to hear each of you reflect on them. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should carry forward or alternatively let go of? Jake, go ahead. Jake McGrew [00:13:50]: One thing that I've noticed as I'm coming in into this role and even at a brand new university that is only on his third year, I still see it is the siloing of student affairs and academic affairs. I was just at the UCSAS conference in Malta, and that was actually one of the presentations was about that, how to integrate academic affairs and student affairs. And I think it's really, really important. I'm finding it's difficult, especially if you have leaders who are more specifically had they've always been in academics or they've always been in student affairs rather than kind of merging the two. And I think and I say this as a teacher who's really into academics, who's really into education, who is a student affairs person as well, that they're really we need to let go of the silo siloing and really work on combining the two and putting student affairs in all aspects of academic affairs and vice versa. Laura Malakowski [00:14:44]: I'll give a shout Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: out to doctor Chris Lewis, our co producer and audio engineer on the show who is currently the chair of the NASPA knowledge community for ZAPA, which is student affairs partnering with academic affairs. So if that's an interest of yours, highly encourage you to reach out to Chris Simone. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:15:00]: For me, I think it is, again, embracing that student experience. Having a strong student voice has been so important to push student affairs along. Those students who stood up and sort of began to express what they really, really needed to get through college and thrive is something that is still important now. Having a constant current voice of the student as they are now means that we can work with them and provide the best supports that they need in the moment. So our institution is 400 and odd years old, but it has moved partly in in time with what the students' needs are. And sometimes it takes a little time to get the big cog moving, but when it does, when it gets momentum, it's great, but it's useless without that student voice. Laura Malakowski [00:15:50]: I appreciate that that's been Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:51]: the core of student affairs since its inception, and that inception looks really different in different cultures, especially given that Trinity College is older than most of the institutions that I'm personally used to working with. But it's very neat to hear that that has remained part of the most salient identity of student affairs. Anyone else like to offer their thoughts on the past of student affairs in terms of something we should either let go of or keep going with? Laura Malakowski [00:16:12]: I could add that, I think still the past of student affairs is with us Because, for example, for us in in our university, it's we need to prove that student affairs has a huge role in the life of students, life of institution, that we, as well, need the resources, facilities, everything, like other academical, stuff or academical, questions as well. Students at PSR is very important. So I think we are still growing that understanding of of all the institution that this is what we have to talk about, to work with, and to try to do the best for our students. It was in the past, but not very good at this moment, I would think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:52]: And I think likely in the present for a lot of student affairs areas around the world where the justification for how we're serving students is always a question from a budgetary perspective. So it's both interesting and a little bit disheartening that that's something that we're facing no matter where we are on the planet in this profession. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:17:09]: I don't know very, very much this history of experience. At first, I'm really young and but, I can bring my past experience as a student because what was very few years ago, and I have to say that, for example, in Italy, my experience, I didn't know experience at first until two years ago. And my personal experience is that a lot of the students leave because they didn't have someone to help them. No. The moment of day where you are in the university is a moment where you are not defined. Who am I? Who will be? What I will do? These are question you bring with you for several years. So you need to define yourself, but you can't. You are waiting at this a very bad moment because you are preparing for something you don't know. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:17:54]: And for example, after a lot of crisis, the perception of the reality of students is like life will be worse. So we have a lot of crisis and a lot of us stop to study and live because of that. So students are first is very important. It permits the students to discover this talent, to be able to face problems, all this problem and this crisis, to have someone who believe in you and someone that is fundamental, make the difference in the student's life, change the value, the perspective. I'm doing something because I have talents. I know that someone believe in me. When you are in a delicate moment, when you are building your confidence, your self perspective. So since my experience of the relevant students at first, I have to say that this is crucial, the crucial part of the university and is much as important as the academic. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:18:52]: Because without it, students are not able to learn with all their, potential. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:58]: Welfare and well-being at the absolute core of everything we do in the field, for sure. Alright. Let's move into the present. And I would like to know from you all, what's happening in your opinion in the field of student affairs that's going well? Giacomo Bacarelli [00:19:10]: About the European students at first, I have to say there are a lot of excellences of very great realities, like the one of Federico of Lorenzo. What we talked we say this that there are not so many, not every university. It's like small private or public, but very few organization that are very prepared, provide a great training for students in every kind of field. They have an holistic growth. There is, as Simona will say after me and Saint Jake, a reality like the Americans or universities or the angle of some countries which has a great strong students of first culture. But there are others like Italy or other in the center of Europe where there is no history of students of first or not recently sort of students of first. So there are only few initiative, very great level, height level, but not that cannot reach everyone. Federico [00:20:09]: I think it is important to maintain an academic and professional life studies in a student affair. This is a characteristic that risk regain loss with the the new generation. An etiquette learning to relate in a institutional way and with style is a beautiful tradition to maintain in order to orient myself, oneself, well in life. Laura Malakowski [00:20:35]: I'd like to pick up Simone Cameron Cohen [00:20:36]: on something that Jacqueline was saying actually in his last two points, and I think it's something that is going really, really well, which is that no matter what level everybody's at and what where they've gotten to, whether they're brand new to student services or if it's more embedded, what is being recognized is the absolute need to support student well-being, that students matter. And for us, where we are in Ireland, we have really good supports that have been growing over the last number of years and have been professionalizing over the last number of years. So, like, for example, in Trinity, we have, like, a disability services office. We have the student counseling service. We have the health service. We have the gym and sports and recreation. We have the tutorial, which is like academic advisers is what other people would call them. So we have a whole suite of things, but that's because students matter and we're we want to make sure that they are looked after and their well-being is recognized and supported. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:21:35]: And I think that's kind of what Giacomo was saying that it is a tender moment whether you're a traditional student who's coming in as a school leaver or somebody returning to college or someone in between. And I think no matter at what level people are, I think it's the recognition that this is important. Jake? Jake McGrew [00:21:52]: I'll build off of what Simone was saying because I really think there has been a a huge emphasis on supporting in student affairs, supporting student mental health, especially student mental health. After COVID, I think it really became a lot bigger because I because I remember when I was in university in Oregon, and this was fifteen years ago. And, I mean, we did have mental health services, but it wasn't nearly as it was just, like, someone to just talk to. And now even in my university in Ukraine, it's an American style university, but it's still in a country that, unfortunately, in the past, mental health services have been stigmatized very heavily. And even then, students are requesting this, and if staff is requesting this, that we have more and more mental health services through the student life off through the student affairs department. And so the fact that there's so much emphasis on this, especially at a university for these students is really, really important. And I it's it's really nice to see these students knowing, oh, I needed to talk to someone because I'm having these difficulties. So it's it's really cool that our the university and student affairs department can be that hub to help student mental health. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:02]: Moving towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards a successful future? Simone Cameron Cohen [00:23:09]: More collaboration, more sharing of information, sharing case studies with each other so that we can learn from each other, beginning to codify best practices, but also remembering context. I think all of those things will help us to support students in the best way possible. Jake McGrew [00:23:26]: I know many of the listeners are from North American universities, so it might not be as applicable there. But at least in Europe, I see more importance being put on student affairs in Continental Europe, especially by administration. And administrators realizing the importance of student affairs in terms of student well-being, student retention, making sure that all students are treated equitably. And so I think there's a positive trend towards the acceptance and understanding of how important student affairs is in Europe, just like it is in North America. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:03]: Anyone else wanna chime in on the ideal future for student affairs? Federico [00:24:07]: Attention to the individual. We are fully respecting the freedom of each individual. A boy, even before being a a student, is a free person free to think with his own head, heaven in a way contrary to ours. So this is the central point. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:24:28]: Can I add, is it enough to say more resources? Just more of those, please, from wherever they come from. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:24:35]: And I agree totally with what everyone said. In my Italian experience as student, if I can, share is an important moment to explain, for me what is the problem of auto students in similar country of Europe like Italy with the same experience of agriculture. I had a problem with, my internship because I was required to finish my degree. I had a problem and I went to an office and I said, it's not my my business. You have to go to another office. I go to the second, the second sending me to the third and to the fourth office. The fourth office send me to the first. And I said to the first office, okay. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:12]: It's not busy. It's business of no one of you. What I can do? I stop to study or you say me who is in charge of it or I call police. No. Okay. I can do that. It was the first office. He or she, the remember, will do that. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:25]: It's not their fault. They didn't care. And this attention to the person is fundamental. In the university, you're like usually a number. You have a number to be recognized, to send your information, to be voted, to be valued, after the exams. And the much more importance of the the individual. There is no a a limit for a limit. It's something has to be much more and more important and this need more and more attention. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:25:55]: Because if you are to build some, to build up the, the, the adult of the future, you, as I said before, you need to someone who believes in you. So more you have this and more you believe in yourself, more you will have strong values that will guide you to something beautiful and good. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:26:15]: Yes. I tell that the Kafka situation Giacomo describe is true. More, awareness is needed. Definitely more exchange of information. I would add that, the future is a multicultural society. I would also like there to be more funding for student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:39]: I think that's the dream for student affairs professionals worldwide is more funding always. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:26:49]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The Culture of Respect is excited to reintroduce two invaluable NASPA resources designed to strengthen institutional commitment to student safety, well-being, and Title IX compliance. The first is the Title IX guide going above and beyond compliance. While federal laws like Title IX and the Clery Act provide a floor in terms of an institution of higher education's requirements for addressing sexual violence, college and universities for addressing sexual violence. Colleges and universities can and should consider how they may reach a higher ceiling above and beyond compliance. The Title IX guide going above and beyond compliance originally published in response to the Title IX rule issued by the US Department of Education in August of twenty twenty was created by Culture of Respect to support institutions who are required to follow the Title IX regulations issued by the US Department of Education in August 2020. While many schools have changed their policies in response to the Title IX regulations issued in 2024, a recent federal court ruling struck down those regulations and institutions will likely be expected to return to the 2020 rule in the coming months. Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:28:11]: This guide provides a series of questions that help institutions assess compliance with key aspects of the new Title IX rule, identify the source of the information in the rule, and most importantly, prompt institutions to examine key questions, considerations, and evidence based practices that help institutions strengthen their prevention and response to sexual violence, their prevention of and response to sexual violence, and create policies, programs, and procedures that help foster a culture of respect. This resource is available on the NASPA website. You can find out more going to NASPA.org. The second resource that I mentioned from the Culture of Respect is the ninth edition of Core Evaluation. The core survey is designed to assess your institution's efforts to prevent and respond to campus sexual violence. It covers practices and policies mandated by federal law, as well as those recommended by experts in the field. Questions are organized around the six pillars of the culture of respect. The survey questions also are included inside of this resource to encourage you to think holistically about responding to and prevention about responding to and preventing sexual violence and also to allow your institution to document gaps and strengths in its current strategy. Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:29:33]: Again, this resource is available on the NASPA website. Head over to NASPA.org and click on publications to find both of these amazing resources. And speaking of Title IX, there is a new opportunity that is coming up here in the next few weeks. The ten zero nine certificate program is running from February 24 through March 15, and it is a virtual professional development opportunity. So the twenty twenty ten zero nine regulations are officially the law of the land nationwide and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Whether you are a seasoned or new Title IX professional, training on the twenty twenty regulatory mandates is required for Title IX coordinators, decision makers, and investigators. The NASPA Title Nine certificate program is a unique, individualized, asynchronous and synchronous learning experience for personnel at post secondary institutions. The speakers within the certificate program include Peter Lake, who is a professor of law and director of the Center for Excellence in Higher Education Law and Policy at Stetson University, and Jake Sapp, assistant state attorney with the Florida Fourth Circuit, both of which have a huge array of experiences that have led them to being experts in their field and will definitely be able to help you to traverse this topic and be able to help you to be able to be not only proficient, but ready to lead your organization into the future. Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:31:06]: One other piece of professional development is the NCAA Student Athlete Health and Wellness Trends and Resources web event that is happening on 02/13/2025 at 1PM Eastern. This session will provide an overview of the NCAA, as well as the health, safety and performance priorities endorsed by the NCAA Board of Governors. This session will highlight trends in student athlete mental health and substance use, sharing outcome from the 2020 '3 NCAA Student Athlete Health and Wellness Study and other NCAA research initiatives related to student athlete mental health and well-being. Lastly, this session will review the NCAA mental health best practices and other resources in supporting student athlete mental health, substance misuse prevention and harm reduction. If you go to the NASPA website to the learning portal, you'll be able to find this great web event and sign up today. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. Dr. CHristopher Lewis [00:32:34]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Chris, thank you so much for kicking off our season with this fresh NASPA world segment. Now we're back with our lightning round, but because we have so many guests, I've modified it just a little bit. We're gonna be doing four questions instead of seven. Alright. Here we go, everybody. Question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Jake McGrew [00:33:49]: The final countdown. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:33:50]: Who runs the world? Giacomo Bacarelli [00:33:51]: Taraway too even. Federico [00:33:52]: The name is Clardy. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:33:54]: The final countdown also for me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]: Number two. What is your essential student affairs or higher education read? Jake McGrew [00:34:01]: The NASPA monthly magazine. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:34:04]: Can I say two? Because I've it's like Stoner, the novel. I think it's excellent for a journey on being an academic. But also, there's a book called Unstuck by doctor Sophie Mort. It's not specific to academia, but it's a really good read on getting in the night of habits. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:34:20]: I'm a bit difficult with this question. Usually, I I try to search the people I know asking, try to catch all the possible interesting, books or argument not to be to be reading when I talk. So not something I used to use. Federico [00:34:36]: Nasca and Euka are a good source for me. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:34:39]: Yes. Also for me, Nasca and Euka. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Alright. Number three, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Jake McGrew [00:34:47]: Oh, not lately because I haven't had time to watch anything because this semester has been crazy. But as recently as I can think, I really recommend watching Bojack Horseman. It looks like a cartoon. It looks like it's really stupid, but just watch it for at least a few seasons, and you'll understand. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:35:02]: I watch loads of television, lots and lots and lots. At the moment, the old man is something that I'm catching up on, which is on Disney, I think. It's really good. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:35:10]: I have several answers, but we'll say the chosen. For me, it's the probably the the best. Federico [00:35:16]: Simpson, but the first ten season, and a school of life and then an allergy of simple living. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:35:23]: For me, I recommend, watching Twin Peaks. It opens your mind. Laura Malakowski [00:35:27]: And for me, my mind opens with my daughter's suggestions. So I'm watching if I have time just being with them and watching whatever, they want to watch together. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:37]: And my final question, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Jake McGrew [00:35:42]: I wanna give shout outs to while I'm the only student life office person at my university, I work really closely with our program managers who work with the different schools, Ira, Elena, and Olia, and they make my life so much easier. I love working with them. We have student council event tomorrow at kind of a winter ball, and they're coming Ira's coming from across the country. And so we're gonna meet up and I'm really excited to see them and they make my life so much better. Simone Cameron Cohen [00:36:09]: For me, it's a couple of things as the senior tutor's office, which is the sort of center of the academic advisors, but they're really specialists in supporting students and the post grad advisory service. Martin McAndrew there is just an absolute expert on supporting research students and top master's students. He's fab. And just generally our services altogether, they just do just such epic work for our students. It's amazing. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:36:31]: Yeah. Absolutely. My boss, the president of VUCA, who believed in me a lot of years ago, who was my mentor during the university, and now he's my boss. And I have to say, I experienced that someone believed in me during the university years, and I have to say thank you for this. And, Noga. Federico [00:36:51]: For me, my school teacher because he opened my to their role for the philosophy and, this my actually life study philosophy and student affairs. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:37:04]: I thank to my director, Carla Bisleri, and also Carla Bisleri now is also the president of the Italian conference of college of for merit, to believe in me and my aspiration. Thank thank you, Carla. Laura Malakowski [00:37:23]: I would like to say in general for all my team of my students at your office that they still believe in me, that we are still together, those pioneers keeping that way to the better life for our students. So for all of them that they are still with me, not dropping out this hard field that we have together. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:42]: Now normally to close out our show, we would ask you all to share how listeners can get ahold of you. But because, again, we've got a large class today, we're not gonna do that. But I would encourage anyone listening who would like to reach out to any of our guests in their respective countries to take a look at LinkedIn. Most of the students are on LinkedIn, and you can find them there. But I wanna say thank you all so much for being willing to participate. And especially to those of you who are doing this in your second language, it's just so darn impressive that you're able to articulate yourselves so brilliantly knowing that you're translating your thoughts in your head. It's just it's amazing. So thank you everybody for sharing your voices with us today. Giacomo Bacarelli [00:38:21]: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lorenzo Caffurini [00:38:23]: Thank you. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:29]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners, and we continue to be grateful that you spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at essayvoices@NASPA.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a a colleague about the show, and please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It really helps other student affairs professionals find our show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:07]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Exploring the Evolution of Student Affairs: Past Lessons, Present Challenges, Future Opportunities 4:25

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Welcome to 2025! As we usher in a new year, it's essential to reflect on the whirlwind that was 2024. In our latest episode of SA Voices from the Field , hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis , we delve into the rapid changes that shaped the past year. From the tumultuous political climate to personal and professional upheavals, 2024 was a year of significant transition for us all. Season 12: Continuing the Conversation With Season 12, we're committed to continuing our deep dive into the past, present, and future of student affairs. Our aim is to provide fresh perspectives and engaging conversations that resonate with higher education professionals globally. Expect insightful narratives from the upcoming annual NASPA conference in New Orleans and beyond. We’re keen to explore uncharted stories within our field and amplify voices from all corners of the world. Engaging with the Community We thrive on your input and encourage you to connect with us. If you'd like to share your story or suggest a guest, email us at savoices@naspa.org. Seeing listeners at the conference brings our mission full circle, turning interactions into valuable, featured content. Your Role in Our Journey Our podcast flourishes because of your continued support and engagement. We invite you to leave a 5-star review on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify, as your feedback helps us to grow and reach more professionals. Let’s continue to chart the evolving landscape of student affairs together. Thank you for being part of this journey with SA Voices from the Field . TRANSCRIPT Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Happy New Year, Chris. Christopher Lewis [00:00:28]: Happy New Year, Joe. Jill Creighton [00:00:29]: Welcome to 2025. What a ride it has been. 2024 flew like that. Christopher Lewis [00:00:35]: It truly did. I look back and I am still amazed that we're in 2025. It definitely went by really, really fast with everything that happened in the year, in the US, at least, in regards to the crazy political environment. But but I'm excited about a new year. Jill Creighton [00:00:52]: And with that new year, we thought a lot about the theme, and we announced this actually at the beginning of season 11. So as we enter season 12, because of the transition point we find ourselves in as a profession, we wanted to continue to have this conversation about the past, present, and future of student affairs. So as we continue forward this season, we're gonna stick on that same theme, but we hope to bring you some new perspectives on it. Hoping to bring you some conversations from all over the world, some amazing and insightful conversations from our annual conference coming up in New Orleans. And as always, if you see either Chris or myself wandering around that conference space, I know it's, you know, so 8 weeks from now, we would love to hear your voices. And as this season arises, we also continue to want to hear from you if you have guests or topic suggestions. There's so many stories in student affairs that have yet to be told, and we want to feature you. So, Chris, if someone would like to appear on our show, how can they do that? Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: Easiest way to get on the show is to email us at savoices@naspa.org . And as Jill just said, it is really exciting to be able to walk around the conference and to be able to just talk with people and to be able to get some of your own voices on the show. So you will see myself, Jill walking around the conference. And if we ask you, hey, will you lend your voice to an upcoming episode? Please say yes and know that we're not just some strange people walking around the conference recording voices, but we're actually collecting your voice to be a part of that upcoming episode. So it is always exciting to be able to meet people. And if you want to be on a episode when we're in, you're going to be at the conference, you can always reach out as well and we can find a time to be able to connect and get your voice that way as well. Jill Creighton [00:02:46]: We are so very much looking forward to bringing you another season of SA Voices from the Field. Thank you again for continuing to listen to us. We are only made possible because you choose to listen to us and share the podcast with your colleagues. So if you find our show valuable to you, we would be very grateful if you would leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really does help people find the show and helps us figure out what it is that you wanna hear. So thank you so much for continuing to be a listener. We look forward to bringing you another season of content on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. Jill Creighton [00:03:30]: This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices atnaspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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The Evolution of Student Affairs with Cherry and Kat Callahan 47:24

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In the latest episode of NASPA’s Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton dive deep into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Joined by Dr. Cherry Callahan , former Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and her daughter, Dr. Kat Callahan , a Senior Lecturer in Leadership Studies, the episode unveils diverse career pathways and shifting priorities within student affairs. Accidental Beginnings and Varied Career Paths Dr. Cherry Callahan’s entry into student affairs was anything but traditional. Originally aiming to be a high school counselor, her career trajectory shifted after accepting a counseling position at Delaware State College. Her involvement in orientation programs led to a formal role as the Director of Orientation, marking the start of a venerable career. Interestingly, Cherry never worked in residence life, a conventional entry point for many professionals in the field. Similarly, Dr. Kat Callahan’s path was unplanned. Without specific career goals during college, she found herself teaching high school and coaching basketball until gravitating towards higher education. Dr. Kat’s focus on leadership education showcases the versatility within student affairs, highlighting the various ways professionals can contribute to holistic student development. From Emotional Development to Student Learning Throughout the episode, the Callahans emphasize a significant shift in student affairs from focusing solely on social and emotional development to incorporating student learning and out-of-classroom experiences. This evolution underscores the importance of preparing students not just academically but as well-rounded individuals equipped for life beyond college. Holistic Student Development and DEI A consistent theme in Dr. Kat Callahan’s work is the focus on holistic development and leadership education. Integrating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) principles, Kat’s approach ensures that student affairs professionals consider the identities and purposes of students, promoting a comprehensive developmental framework. This paradigm shift is critical in preparing students for leadership roles and fostering a sense of community. Lessons from History: A Forward-Looking Perspective The Callahans also reflect on the influences of civil rights and women’s movements on student affairs. Dr. Cherry Callahan recounts her experiences fostering positive student engagement amidst historical turbulence. Both guests acknowledge the increased emphasis on mental health and business-like operations in contemporary student affairs, suggesting a mixed yet hopeful outlook for the profession’s future. Empowerment and Mentorship Empowerment is a central theme in the Callahans' discussion. Dr. Kat Callahan leverages her mother’s extensive knowledge, bringing her into classrooms to share insights with students. This intergenerational dialogue enhances learning, bridging historical perspectives with current practices. Such mentorship underscores the familial bond within the student affairs community, vital for professional growth. A Vision for the Future As we look ahead, the Callahans advocate for prioritizing student well-being, understanding systemic issues, and continuously adapting educational programs. Their insights remind us of the enduring impact of student affairs on shaping resilient, socially conscious leaders. In conclusion, this episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field” brings forth invaluable lessons and reinforces the importance of diverse pathways, holistic development, and inclusive practices in student affairs. With professionals like Dr. Cherry and Dr. Kat Callahan leading the charge, the future of student affairs looks promising, well-equipped to tackle modern challenges while nurturing the leaders of tomorrow. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on our season finale of Essay Voices From the Field, we have a very special look into the past, present, and future of student affairs. And for the very first time, we're featuring a mother and a daughter, both professionals in student affairs who can share the arc of their careers as well as the arc of the profession. So it's my sincere pleasure to welcome doctor Cherry Callahan and doctor Kat Callahan. Doctor Cherry m Callahan served as vice chancellor for student affairs at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro until December of 2017. Upon her retirement, Cherry received the order of the longleaf pine, among the most prestigious awards presented by the governor of North Carolina, recognizing extraordinary service to the state. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:10]: Her first professional position was at Delaware State University where she served as a counselor and director of orientation followed by a brief period as an elementary school counselor before moving to UNCG where she assumed progressively responsible roles culminating in the vice chancellor position. Cherry has been very active and professionally served as president of NASPA in 1998 to 1999. She more recently served as the chair of the NASPA Foundation board of directors and was the recipient of the John l Blackburn Distinguished Pillar of the Profession Award in 2024 and the Fred Turner Award for for distinguished service to NASPA in 2006. Doctor Callahan has served as an elected officer for the board in numerous community and civic organizations. Her primary current community service is with the American Red Cross in which she serves as the North Carolina region training lead for disaster services and also an instructor for disaster classes. Cherry has presented dozens of programs and speeches at professional meetings, served on accreditation teams for SACS and review teams for other colleges and universities, and authored and co-authored several articles and chapters in various publications. She's married to her husband, Mike, who taught history in the Guilford County School System for 30 years, and has 2 daughters, Megan, who's an attorney in Greensboro, and Kathleen, who's on the faculty in the department of leadership and American studies at Christopher Newport University. Our second guest is Doctor. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:24]: Kat Callahan, who is currently a senior lecturer in Leadership Studies at Christopher Newport University with expertise in education, student affairs and higher education, and internationalization of higher ed. She earned a PhD in Higher Education from Florida State University, an MED in College Student Affairs from the University of South Florida, and a BA in sociology from NC State University. Doctor Callahan has developed leadership curricula, advised students, and served in academic and administrative roles at institutions, including William and Mary, Florida State University, and Winthrop University. Her research and teaching focuses on cultural relevance in leadership education and development and the internationalization of the history of student affairs in higher education. She is published widely, contributed to global leadership initiatives, and held leadership roles in NASPA, the International Leadership Association, and IACIS. Doctor Callahan is the director of the IACIS Student Leader Global Summit and an experienced keynote speaker and workshop facilitator. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I loved having it, and we'll see you next season. I'm very excited to have our our very first parent child student affairs professional duo on the show today to talk about the past, present, and future of student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:31]: So first, let me welcome pillar of the profession, doctor Cherry Callahan. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:03:35]: Hi, Jill. It's really my pleasure to be here with you today and my daughter. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:39]: And also Dr. Kat Callahan. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:03:41]: Hi, everyone. Thanks for having us, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:44]: When Chris and I were incepting how we wanted to present the arc of the past, present, and future of student affairs, it just immediately came to mind. Do we have any families that are doing this work or have done this work across time? All of us, I think, like to joke that really no one grows up saying I wanna be a student affairs professional. But, Cherry, you might be the exception to this rule. Oh, you're you're shaking your head no. We'll get into that for sure. But, Cherry, you're retired from the field now. Cherry, you're deep in your career in the field. We always like to start our show by asking our guests how they got to our current seat. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:16]: So, Cherry, yours being retirement. But can you tell us a little bit about your career arc into and through the profession? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:04:23]: Okay. I guess it all goes back to the day when I was leader as an undergrad and very involved in the co curriculum. And I never really thought about student affairs even at that point because my ultimate goal at that time was to become a public school high school counselor. So I actually did a master's degree in counseling. And on the eve of my marriage to my husband, Kat's dad, I became aware of a position at a college in Delaware, Delaware State College, now Delaware State University, and they were advertising for a counselor. And Mike being from Massachusetts and me being from the Carolinas, we had kinda decided we wanted to live somewhere between the two geographic spaces. So I looked at it and I went in for the interview 2 weeks before our wedding and got the job. So I landed in a college counseling center quite by accident because it ultimately was not my goal. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:24]: And before you knew it, I was observing the orientation program and I said to the dean of students who hired me, I've got some thoughts about orientation. Would you be willing to listen to them? He said, sure. So 2 days later, I had the title director of orientation slapped on my shoulders along with the counselor and that's what really kick started my career in student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:46]: That was a very busy week for you here. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:05:48]: Busy. Yes. Yes. But pretty typical of my life as a whole. They're all pretty busy. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:55]: And, Kat, you are currently working at Christopher Newport University. Can you tell us how you landed in your current seat? Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:00]: Yes. So, unlike mom, I did not have goals in college. I was an RA, and I played intramural sports. That was what I knew about student affairs, and obviously my mother was the vice chancellor of student affairs. Yet, I never drew those parallels. But I did not know what I wanted to do after college. So I took a year off, and I ended up teaching high school and coaching basketball as following my father's footsteps. And then about halfway through the year, I was like, you know, I really liked that RA job. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:06:28]: Maybe there's something to that. So went through student affairs, went through my graduate program, went through my entry level job, be one of the typical routes through residence life, and into my PhD. And in my PhD, transitioned to leadership education, leadership development. So that's how I landed as a senior lecturer in leadership studies where I am today. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:06:48]: And, you know, it's interesting that I am one of a rare breed who never worked in residence life. I came through counseling, and as I've interacted with my peers over the years, almost everybody's been in residence life in one shape or another. I was never even an RA. So I'm a little atypical from that in that perspective. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]: You and I share that, Cherry. I did not serve as an RA in undergrad, and I did not have a hall director position or even an assistant directorship or directorship in residence life. I was more raised in the student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion, and then finally, student involvement, civic engagement space, and health promotion. And then finally, student conduct was kind of the primary thread through, how I got started in student affairs. But I did end up supervising residence life when I was in an AVP seat. So we are out there if you're listening, and you're like, how do I do this without ResLife? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:36]: That's right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:36]: Jerry, can you talk a little bit about what the profession was like when you first entered the field in terms of the value set that you were operating through, the priorities of the profession, that type of thing? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:07:48]: Quite different from what it is today. There's no question about that. And I think the primary mindset was focused on how to get students engaged in their curricular life. It's always been there, but I think my supervisor at that time was born out of the civil rights movement, the women's movement. And that really bore the, I guess, the hallmark of student conduct and how students behaved. And so student affairs was leaned on to how can we get our students engaged in positive ways as opposed to protest and so forth. So we were more of a, I hate to use the word judicial, but I guess conduct focused. And my role in that and when I'm talking about my supervisor at that time, that was my supervisor at my second higher education job. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:08:41]: At my first higher education job at Delaware State, it was really more focused on helping the students adjust to this new environment and getting them actively engaged in that new environment away from home and helping them understand the challenges that come with pursuing a college degree amongst a population where college degrees were not as common. Because as many people know, Delaware State is an HBCU, and I was somewhat of an anomaly in that environment because I was a young white female. But it really did focus on that adjustment period and that in loco parentis domain. And then as I transitioned a few years later into the position at the University of North Carolina from where I ultimately retired, there was a little bit of that left, but a lot of it had dissipated because of all of the social movements that were taking place in the early seventies. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:41]: And it's probably swinging back towards a more model now, especially from a student care perspective as we're seeing the mental health concerns of college students come more to the forefront of our work. So, Kat, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you see the current state of the profession, especially in terms of what your priorities are in teaching. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:00]: So it's always fun with these types of conversations just because my specific area of knowledge within the student affairs field is the history of student affairs. So I teach history of, and so listening to mom talk about that evolution, and as we've learned from all of our history textbooks, it started within loco parentis, and it has evolved in a lot of different ways. And I think we know from history that things kinda circle back in different capacities. So how I teach my students today is probably very different than I would have taught 20 years ago when I first entered into the field. And I've seen a couple shifts already within the 15 years that I've been teaching. And this year specifically has a new type of student on campus that I'm in the probably the last shift I had before that was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. Definitely, our diversity, equity, and inclusion, that piece of conversation is consistent, has been consistent in my entire time in the field. And now it's a theme that we talk about all the time. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:10:58]: And here in Virginia where I am, DEI is a hot topic because we have to look at the state and the federal government when we're talking about these types of things. So the context matters, and context within student affairs matters. So DEI is a big theme in teaching. When you teach leadership education as a whole, leadership has evolved. So I say alongside of the field of student affairs is the field of leadership studies. You can see this in Suzette Kovev Ed's work and Denny Roberts and how they in the beginning when mom's talking about her 1st years in student affairs, that is kind of the beginning of leadership studies. So these 2 stepchildren of fields are walking side by side in a very interesting way and evolving. Student development is evolving at the very beginning when mom started and has a good foothold in the early 2000 when I get into the field. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:11:51]: I get into conversations within my master's program. So student development has a stronghold. Leadership development has a stronghold, and these two things just evolve in this very beautiful way that I don't know if a lot of people see the connection between the 2, which has led me to create my leadership in higher education class, where I bring those two fields together, and we talk about the history of, because we have to know context of all things. History of student affairs, history of higher education, and history of education leadership development through where we are today and the complexity nature of things. Obviously, the conversation around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and really the critical conversations and critical theory that's coming through that did not exist 20 years ago. So I would say all of these pieces of the curriculum have evolved and are now cornerstones in how we do both student affairs, higher education, and leadership. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:12:49]: I was just gonna mention that I know in it was in 1979, I believe, when at the university, I recognized the First Gay Student Association. And it was not well received by the alumni of the university. And there were all kinds of calls for we're no longer gonna donate to the university. We're not gonna do this. And so I go back to that time, and I think about it. Again, that was 1979, and this was at UNC Greensboro, which previously had been the Woman's College of the University of North Carolina System. So it had always been focused on educating women. And so when we got to the late seventies, and then it was into the early eighties when we established our first, what we call, Office of Minority Student Affairs. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:13:41]: So I guess when I listened to Kat talk about DEI, I was on the cusp of those developments in the field of student affairs as we created and recognized those populations who were not the traditional white male and female populations. And a lot has transpired over the years since that time. In fact, it's it's amazing to me how slow at times it seems to have been, but how fast in the context of history we have gotten to the point that we are cognizant of the richness that lies in the diversity not only of ideas in higher education, but diversity of the populations with whom we work in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:27]: That's a really important reminder to all of us who I think are very much struggling with the current landscape of JEDIB work in America. It often feels like one step forward, 3, 5, 10 steps backwards. And also to remember that when the profession was just starting to emerge, none of these things existed. So there is tangible progress, but there's still so much work to be done for sure. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:14:51]: And, you know, last week, I was actually at William and Mary. I took my leadership in higher education class to William and Mary because we go look at the Wren building, the the the oldest building that exists within the United States higher education system, in which we talk about the Lemon Project. And and that's the recognition of enslaved individuals who contributed to the university and and built the university. And the point came across that William and Mary has owned slaves longer than they have not owned slaves today. And just that point of context also is an important reminder of the long term effects of this country and how we built higher education as a whole. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:30]: And an important reminder that the history of enslaved people in the United States is not just in the fabric of society, but it's also baked into our higher education system. And and then when we look at oppression of students of color in particular in higher ed, it it's easy to trace a line through the origins. So that is a disturbing fact as well. And William and Mary is founded, what, 15 30 4 ish? Late 1600. Late 1600. Oh, I'm sorry, doctor Tom Sherman, for forgetting my date from my higher ed history class. But in all of that, kind of keeping that in our history lessons, I think, is a really critical element of looking forward. And I wonder too how our curriculum may or may not change based on legislation that may or may not be coming over the next couple of years. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:16:13]: That raises an interesting question because, the curriculum has had to change over the course of time. And obviously, when it relates to the history and to inclusion initiatives, but also in terms of business. And I hate to put that in there, but how do we move forward in long range planning in terms of developing a budget, in terms of managing personnel and so forth? That was never even a teardrop in the sea of whatever when we were developing our higher education programs. And now it is because we're not a business. We are focused on student services, but yet there are those elements that have kind of crept in to the work that we do in student affairs. And it's particularly important as you advance in the field and you move into management positions that you carry that skill set forward as well. That didn't exist when I came through. I was trained to be a counselor period. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:14]: And then all of a sudden, it kinda lands in your lap and you say, oh, I don't know how to do this. So, yes, we need to constantly continue to assess what we're teaching in our programs and make sure that it's relevant. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:28]: I'm wondering if the 2 of you can talk about how you've utilized each other's expertise, experiences, and generational viewpoints to approach the work and to learn from each other. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:17:38]: I'm gonna let Kat yeah. No. I'm gonna let you speak to that first Kat. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:17:41]: Because I've come to you a lot. Yeah. I mean, at the very beginning of my career, I looked to mom a lot just because she had this vast knowledge of the system of both higher education and student affairs. And I've brought her into classes to speak to graduate students and undergraduate students to have conversations about what the field looks like, the state of the field, the past of the field. I think I utilize mom in a different way than she utilizes me, and I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say. But I utilize mom as a, these are the things that are going on. How have you seen this present itself in the past? How do you think I can work through this? What is your advice to deal with a person like this? And it's very, like, specific to a situation versus mom who I think takes a bigger picture approach when coming to me and asking questions. I can't think of anything specific. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:18:32]: I don't know about that. I know I, on occasion, leaned on Kat when I was trying to understand the mindset of the younger generation. I knew my children, and I knew kinda where their heads were, although none of us as parents truly know where our children's mindsets are all of the time. But I would get her perspective as I was dealing with issues. And and like you, Kat, I'm trying to think of a specific incident or incidents that I would lean on you to kinda have a better understanding of where the minds were of young people on certain issues, probably, and most likely, political issues or inclusion issues or not so much history, even though you had a better sense of the history of the profession than I did because I was kinda living it while you were studying it. And that makes a difference because when you're in the midst of something, you don't really understand all the forces that are coming into play. And Kathleen had that historical context that would help clarify that. But I think that's I would say I I used her more often to kinda make sure I was grounded in the reality of today as opposed to where I was 20, 30 years ago. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:19:53]: And I don't know. I think we did lean on each other for a lot of things. And I, having you as a mother, came with a lot of privilege. At NASPA Conferences, I wasn't really hanging out with people my age. I was hanging out with mom and her friends. And that's just, you know, I would stay with mom because I was a young individual who didn't have a lot of money. So I would tag along to those types of things. And so I got perspective from giants in the field that have really helped shape where I've come in my understanding of the big picture student affairs higher ed. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:25]: And then I think my day to day interactions with students keeps me grounded in that sense and just being younger than mom and her friends. So I do think we lean it on each other. And I mom, when I was saying the big picture piece, and maybe you didn't realize this, sometimes you just would call and I would then give you perspective of you've been in this field for how long, and you still need to make sure you're taking care of yourself. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:20:49]: Oh, yeah. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:20:49]: It's the little things that we sometimes forget when we're taking care of others, and mom take loves to take care of others and sometimes forgets about herself in that process. And I'm like, literally what you tell your staff, it's what you tell your students to do. And I have to be the reminder for her sometimes. And so that's where I think that I've helped you over the years. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:09]: You've hit something there on the head. And I know all of us in student affairs, you know, we have a finite group on whom we can lean when we're struggling with an issue. When I was vice chancellor and I faced a certain issue, and I was the only vice chancellor for student affairs on my campus. So I leaned on my colleagues across the country. How did you deal with this issue? What suggestions would you have under these circumstances? And that kind of thing. And I think there were times when I leaned on Kat, not necessarily the high level decisions that I had to make, but I knew she knew the field. And if I had an issue that I needed to talk through, there were times I would call Kat and say, okay. I'm dealing with a student and here's the situation. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:21:53]: What are your thoughts on this? How would you address this if you had to face this situation? So there was that common core of what we were doing in the field, but looking at it from different perspectives, from different generations that I think enriched both of us. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:22:10]: Yeah. I get it. It leads back to the privilege that we had having each other because there are so many people in this field. Their families do not understand what they do. And so it's that common understanding simply that was very helpful for us that we have when most people in the field do not have that. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:28]: And you really hit a good point there because whenever I know as as I was maturing in the field and people said, what do you do? And and I would tell them what I did, and they didn't have a clue. They didn't understand. And, oh, so you're a teacher. Well, no. That's not exactly what I do. But you're in education. You I said, no. And I think from a parent child perspective, that's very true because we got it. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:22:54]: We got it. We understood it. Now did you understand it as you were growing up? Probably not because I would take you to campus to participate in a fall kickoff celebration where you were there as the vice chancellor was sitting in the dunking tank or you were playing games with the spin the what is the reel that you spend to see what prize you're gonna win. So that's the way you saw student affairs as a child compared to what you saw it as you matured and came into the field. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:23]: There's a huge difference between mom and I. Obviously, I am on the academic side now where I teach student affairs, but I watched mom when I was younger. And she recalls the fun events, and I recall those fun events too. I go into braids. I recall child labor and stuffing orientation packets when I was young, but I also recall the calls in the middle of the night. I know the big situations that she had to deal with and I watched her. And when I went into my master's program, people were like, oh, you wanna be just like your mom. You wanna be a vice president. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:23:57]: And I was like, no. I've seen some of the things that I don't want to do. I am in it for students and student development, but I had to find my path separately and know that early on I set boundaries in a way that a lot of young professionals didn't set boundaries because I watched mom go through what she had to go through. So I have been able to utilize her experience to define who I am as a professional. And when you put us side by side, yeah, they're adorable mom, daughter, student affairs couple, but we are very different when we talk about approach, when we talk about personality, when we talk about just how we engage in the world of student affairs in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:40]: I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. And so this is our season finale for season 11. And so you're going to be the last pair to answer in this particular year, but we'll be continuing with these questions as we kick off season 12. Our question on the past is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward or alternatively to let go of? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:05]: Oh, that's a tough question. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:25:07]: I know my answer. It very much is the holistic student. We should absolutely that is the foundation of the field. It is a concept that we established in 1937 before anybody else. It is a concept that we still hold today of our students have so much to who they are, all of their identities, and we need to be focused on the whole student, not just their academics, not just the one off involvement, but who are they and how are they fulfilling their purpose. And so 100% with the founders of student affairs, holistic student development. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:25:42]: Well, and I think an a part of that as as I think about this question a little bit more centers on student learning. I think that we did not focus on student learning in the earlier years of the student affairs profession. We focused on student development, but more from a social and emotional basis. And we really, over the years, have come to realize that student learning is just as important, if not more important, to, as Kathleen says, their holistic development. What is it that they learn from their involvement outside the classroom? What is it that they learn outside the classroom that can complement what they're learning in the classroom and will carry forward in terms of their careers? Because there are natural ties between those learning outcomes in terms of running a student organization, managing its budget, developing its bylaws, and so on and so forth that just carry forward into a professional career. Similarly, student organizations that focus on service. And as generations of students have come through, we've seen some generations who really focus on serving others as opposed to other times when they focus more on me me me I I. And that kinda is a cycle in a sense, but we've gotten to the point where serving others, it's still very important, but more recently than not, I feel like people are moving away from that in the field because they're more focused on the individualism of learning and preparing for their future. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:27]: And we've got to remember that we need to help preparing for their future. And we've got to remember that we need to help each other, if that makes any sense. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:35]: Coming into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:27:39]: It's easier for me to talk about what doesn't feel good about what's going on in the field of student affairs. And I know this is gonna sound somewhat selfish, but I'm almost glad I retired when I did because there's been a seismic shift in the sense of what the core principles are upon which student affairs is based. It's much more of a business than it used to be. I say that on one hand, but on the other hand, when I think about the mental health crises that we're dealing with in our society as a whole, but in higher education, it's nice to see that we've kind of turned the page and we've really started putting more emphasis, again, it goes back to that holistic student, onto the mental health dimensions of a college student and why that matters as they move forward. So it's like there's 2 sides to that coin. And do I miss the work that I did in student affairs? Yes. It was stressful work. I just can't even imagine today how much more stressful it would be for me than it was when I retired 7 years ago. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:28:44]: I understand that perspective, and especially if you've been in the field for that long and watching things shift over time. For me, in the face of today, in the face of possibilities for the future for higher education, I'm gonna do something uncharacteristic for the people that know me listening to the podcast. Now I'm gonna look at the bright side. Professionals being more able to be adaptive to what's happening on our campus has increased. Our increased access to information, to conversations, to people, the many podcasts that are out there, the many different types of journals and articles that are coming out around student affairs, leadership. We have so much access to things that we did not have back 20, 30 years ago. And our ability to have an impact on what happens in the future. The ability to take students where they are, help them through initiatives on a college campus, things like intergroup dialogue, civil discourse, and really having an impact in helping these students go forth into the world as good leaders and good followers to make a difference. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:29:58]: We have that possibility, and that is the silver lining of where we are right now. And having people in the field, like like a lot of my amazing friends and colleagues around the country, around the world who are doing this work makes me feel hopeful is a word that I haven't used recently, but hopeful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:18]: Looking towards the future. In an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards the future? Dr. Kat Callahan [00:30:24]: This is hard. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:30:25]: I think that as a profession, we need to stay focused on the well-being of the student and focused on providing opportunities for them to gain diverse perspectives, to help them get comfortable with respecting those diverse perspectives and knowing themselves and who they are so that as they move into their careers and as they move beyond college campuses, they can make a difference in their communities. Because and I'm gonna use the term leadership. Community leadership is a critical need in all of its dimensions. And when I say community, it can be something as small as a civic organization. It could be a participation in city or county governance or boards or whatever and beyond, but we need to make sure that we have college graduates prepared to step to the plate to make their communities a better place. And they can only do that if they respect and understand the diverse perspectives and the diverse populations with whom they work. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:31:40]: It comes down to the foundation of higher education. We exist for the public good. And if we exist for the public good, we have to acknowledge the systems in place. And we have to acknowledge power and oppression. We have to acknowledge what our system as a whole can do for society. And as mom is talking about, we educate the student for purpose, for leadership. The framework that I'm really identifying with recently is the leadership for liberation framework, and it really does help us to shape and empower our students to go into and it is it is when she says community, it is their major field. It's their careers. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:32:25]: Not everything is a student organization. We're gonna have people working in the shipyard, working on naval ships. We're gonna have people in going in the military. We have engineers and nurses and doctors and teachers. And if we're able to equip students with these soft skills that we've talked about through this podcast, really, we can help to take these broken systems that exist. And whether that is for some that need to be dismantled and built back up, and just providing that support for those students to get to the next level. Whatever that next level is in their own identity, in their own purpose. If we are able to do that, then we're doing what needs to be done in student affairs. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:33:08]: Because we can't fix the world. Some faculty would like to think so, but we can't fix the world. But we do have a hand in shaping it. And that is simply through education, through leadership learning. And that's all we can do as we move forward in the unknowable future. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:33:23]: And I think it's the soft skills that we try and develop and hone during the college years that are the key for everyone's success in how to communicate, how to delegate, how to resolve conflict, how to negotiate conflict but it doesn't have to be conflict. How we negotiate, how do we manage our energy and our time, How do we strategically some of these soft skills are so important and that's where I think student affairs can shine and has been a shining star in terms of student development over the years. And I just have to say this at this juncture. Again, I was kind of back at the cusp, so to speak, not at the very beginning of student affairs, but I was early on in becoming the profession that it is today. And there were a lot of things I didn't know. And listening to Kat talk today, I am so proud of what she's become because she is exuding the professionalism, the energy, and the knowledge that I think is central to our success as a profession in higher education. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:34:37]: On the flip side of that, and it is who I am as a person is I look to some of my colleagues who wouldn't have the opportunity to be in this conversation, who are 10 times the person that I might ever want to become. And those are the voices that I go to when I'm lost in the field. We learn a lot of things. We have access to a lot of information, but we need to make sure that we are empowering the voices of others along this journey because it's my former classmates in my PhD program. It is my colleagues that I've been working with both at my university and within NASPA and IASIS and around the world that have really gotten me to where I am today. And I wouldn't be here without that, as well as mom and her peers. But I think we have a lot of great examples in our field of who to look to. I just wanna shine light on others in this field who are doing the work every single day that didn't have the opportunity to have their mother in the field and understand what's going on. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:35:40]: They're doing the good work regardless. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:35:42]: Well and I think that speaks to the family that student affairs professionals is. We are a family, and we lean on each other whether we're related by blood as Kat and I are, as mother daughter. But in general, we are a family. I count among my closest friends and sisters, people that I've grown to love over the years in the field. And there is so much light, shall we say, at the end of the tunnel when you think of the people that we meet in the field of student affairs, when you think of the people we lean on in the world of student affairs. Even in retirement, I will tell you, I lean on colleagues, some of whom are also retired, But we support each other, we help each other, and we recognize the important work that we've done and that we see moving forward among the students that we have impacted during our careers. There's nothing that feels better than hearing from a former student about the difference we made in their lives while they were on our college campuses. And there's nothing better, nothing more satisfying for all of us. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:36:57]: I mean, I can say it about Kat because she's my daughter, but I can also say it about a lot of other young people and now not so young people given how long I was in the field. I did make a difference in their lives, and they make a difference in mine. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:11]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:17]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's so much happening in NASPA. Coming up on February 18, 2025 is a special professional development opportunity. It is a live web event entitled the First Amendment in Student Activism, a collaborative and culturally responsive approach to developing community. This is brought to you by NASPA advisory services. This webinar will offer a primer on how the First Amendment comes into play in the public square on a public university campus, Following the establishment of a legal and policy foundation, presenters will offer a framework to explore the creation, implementation and outcomes of an effective first amendment and student activism task force. The overarching goal of the presentation is to position attendees to lead and participate in meaningful institutional evolutions that can address the many competing demands related to free speech on public campuses. Learnt skills will include consideration of the equitable implementation of the protocol, development of user friendly educational resources, communication strategies, legal implications, safety, finances, planning, logistics, and community relations. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:35]: As mentioned, this is on February 18, 2025 and you can access more information about it or register for it on the NASPA online learning community. Go to learning.naspa.org for more information. One of the new publications that came out from NASPA this year was a book entitled Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics. This book edited by Jackie Clark and Jeanette Smith, examines critical issues pertinent to today's work on serving college students and the professionals who support them. In this comprehensive volume, distinguished scholars and practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics, practitioners offer unique insights into a diverse range of topics facing higher education and student affairs. Some chapters address HESA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades. Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and one faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice, students and faculty and preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or in or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. You can find out more in the NASPA bookstore. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:02]: The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is happening February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association's premier event designated for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. This symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This 3 day symposium features keynote sessions, research policy and best practices presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. We invite you to connect with colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Find out more on the NASPA website. And finally today, a new issue of the Leadership Exchange came out just recently. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:06]: And in this, this issue is focused on the enduring power of historically black colleges and universities. Entitled HBCU Strong, there are a ton of articles talking about the power of HBCUs as well as the importance of these institutions throughout our country. I highly encourage you no matter where you are in your own journey to check out this issue, it is a part of the professional development that you have access to through the NASPA website and through your NASPA membership. If you go to the NASPA website, you can find it very easily by going to naspa.org, go to publications, and then the Leadership Exchange Magazine. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:49]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:19]: Chris, thank you so much for wrapping up season 11 with this NASPA world. We always really appreciate what's going on in and around NASPA. Alright. Cherry and Cat, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for the 2 of you to answer. We usually give about 90 seconds for a single guest, so we'll give you like 2 minutes for this. Alright. Question 1. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:39]: If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:42]: I'm gonna say, We Are the World. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:45]: Yeah. Bring them out. Hi, Tia. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:47]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:51]: An army nurse. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:43:53]: Dolphin trainer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:54]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:43:57]: My second supervisor in student affairs, Jim Allen, who was vice chancellor for student affairs when I was hired to work at UNC Greensboro. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:09]: It's a tie between Bob Schwartz and Kathy Guthrie. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:12]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:14]: Servant leadership. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:15]: Mine is Denny Robert leadership in higher education. I don't remember the exact title. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:20]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. The Voice. Heartstopper. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:28]: You're not gonna like the answer to this question. I don't listen to podcast. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:44:32]: It's called Scholar Tea. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:33]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:44:37]: I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Kevin Kruger, whose support over the many years he served on NASPA staff and all the support that he gave me as I grew to become a NASPA leader. I was on the NASPA board when he was first hired by Liz Nuss, and I was impressed by his youthfulness and his energy. And he truly has inspired me over the many, many years in terms of his leadership style, his capacity to make change at a time when change was needed. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:45:11]: I have so many. I wouldn't be here without all of mom's friends. Kevin, obviously, Gwen Dungy, Cree Kevin, Lisa, v, Sally, Shauna. All my friends already called out Bob and Kathy. All my professors, Tom Miller. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:24]: Oh, I could give a whole litany of of long names too, but I just stopped with the one, but I could give you a dozen right off the top of my head. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:31]: It's been such a pleasure to learn from both of you today and hear your different perspectives on how you approach the work. We really appreciate you both taking the time to spend some time with us today. And if others would like to learn from you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:45:43]: The easiest way to find me, although I will be honest, I don't check it all the time, is through my UNCG email address, which is cmcalla@uncg.edu. I'm also in LinkedIn if you ever think about wanting to check there. But again, I'm retired, so don't count on immediate responses if you need them. Go through Kat and you can get to me. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:09]: I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram, doctor Kat Wolf 21. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:14]: Thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today. Dr. Kat Callahan [00:46:17]: Thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Dr. Cherry Callahan [00:46:20]: Yes. It's been fun. Thank you, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:26]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Transforming Student Affairs Education: Insights from Dr. Amy E. French 41:48

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Reflecting on Historical Context and Embracing Future Innovations In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton hosts Dr. Amy E. French , Associate Professor at Bowling Green State University (BGSU), for a riveting discussion on the evolving landscape of student affairs. In this episode, Dr. French shares her professional journey, touches on the historical significance of student affairs, and details future innovations in integrative learning and social justice within the field. The Journey from Alumni Relations to Academia Dr. Amy E. French's path to academia is rich with diverse experiences and significant milestones, starting with her involvement in student government and advocacy at Kentucky Wesleyan College. This early exposure to leadership and activism paved the way for her continued studies in social justice at Loyola University Chicago. Transitioning from working in alumni relations and advancement, Dr. French was inspired by mentors like Dr. Candice Hinton to pursue a PhD in Higher Education Leadership, ultimately leading to her role as a faculty member at BGSU. Throughout the episode, Dr. French emphasizes the importance of listening to students, colleagues, and the community to drive program development. Her dedication to addressing student needs and fostering an inclusive environment is evident in her leadership of the College Student Personnel (CSP) program at BGSU. Program Legacy and Historical Significance The CSP program at BGSU holds a legacy built upon addressing student affairs' demands during tumultuous times, with the work of Gerald Saddlemyer as a cornerstone. Dr. French recounts the program's historical roots, including the commemoration of the Kent State shootings via sister statues. These events highlight the profound impact student affairs professionals have had in guiding students through periods of crisis. Dr. French shares how the program's history continues to shape its present and future objectives. Celebrating its 60th anniversary, the BGSU CSP program plans to honor its legacy with an 18-month-long series of festivities, reflecting on the program's significant contributions to student development and higher education. Adapting to Post-COVID Realities The global pandemic undeniably altered the fabric of higher education, prompting a shift in student priorities and expectations, especially in residential life and Greek organizations. Dr. French discusses how these changes have influenced BGSU's program, pushing a curriculum revision focused on holistic professional development and training for students. Innovative curriculum updates are slated for the upcoming fall, aiming to keep pace with evolving student needs. This includes the integration of AI technology using 360-degree cameras for experiential learning, further emphasizing student development theories and practical applications in a rapidly changing world. Embracing Social Justice and Identity Development A pivotal aspect of the CSP program under Dr. French’s leadership is a robust focus on social justice and identity development. Recognizing the importance of these elements, she advocates for a curriculum that starts with current student understandings of power, privilege, and oppression. This approach equips students with the skills needed to challenge oppressive structures and promotes an inclusive and equitable campus environment. The Role of Graduate Assistantships Graduate assistantships play a vital role in student development at BGSU, offering hands-on experience and professional growth opportunities. Dr. French highlights the support from administration in funding these positions, contributing to high student satisfaction and the overall success of the program. Additionally, she emphasizes that reflective practice is integral to BGSU’s approach, with dedicated classes each semester that adapt to student needs and fill curricular gaps. An elective on campus politics will soon be introduced, helping students navigate advocacy and internal bureaucracy more effectively. Enhancing Student Affairs Through Communication and Collaboration Effective communication between graduate prep programs and practitioners is crucial for preparing future student affairs professionals. Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Amy French discuss this dynamic, with Dr. French shedding light on forums like the NASPA Faculty Institute and collaborations among Ohio program coordinators. These platforms focus on curriculum development, funding, marketability, and employability, essential factors in enhancing the relevance and effectiveness of student affairs education. Looking to the Future: Storytelling and Advocacy Dr. French underscores the significance of storytelling in student affairs, using personal anecdotes and historical context to illustrate the field’s human aspect. By maintaining personal archives like thank you notes and embracing the passions of incoming students, professionals can stay motivated and inspired. She also stresses the need for student affairs to challenge outdated practices and remain open to new approaches. This openness to evolution ensures that programs stay relevant and impactful amidst changing dynamics within higher education. In closing, the podcast episode with Dr. Amy E. French is a testament to the transformative power of student affairs. By honoring its history, adapting to contemporary challenges, and embracing innovative approaches, the field can continue to support and empower students through their academic and personal journeys. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Dr. Amy e French, sheher. Dr. French is an associate professor in the school of counseling, higher education, leadership, and foundations at Bowling Green State University, where she also serves as coordinator of the college student personnel graduate program. She holds a bachelor's in political science from Kentucky Wesleyan College, a master's degree in social justice from Loyola University Chicago, and a Dr.ate in higher education leadership from Indiana State University. Dr. French's current research foundation includes cultural consciousness on college campuses, campus reimagination, and community connection within student affairs. Her favorite scholarly activity is the opportunity to teach brilliant scholars who strive to make a positive impact on students during their collegiate years and beyond. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: When Dr. French is not on campus, she's often spotted walking and hiking with her dog, boss Chewy McScruff, in the parks across the country. Amy, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:21]: Good morning. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:22]: Glad to be crossing time zones again. We were talking to you today from Ohio. You are currently an associate professor at Bowling Green, but the thing we're most excited to talk to you about today is the past, present, and future of graduate prep programs for student affairs professionals. You're still in, what's being termed the college student personnel program, which is a name I know that BG has held for a very long time. We'll get into all of that. But before we talk about your expertise in this area, we always love to start our episodes by getting to know our guests by asking, how did you get to your current seat? Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:54]: Oh my goodness. How did I get to my current seat? Well, I was very involved as an undergrad student at Kentucky Wesleyan College, a very small private school in Kentucky in Western Kentucky. And I was hyper involved in student government and student activities and pretty active as well as, I led several campus protests and did a lot of advocacy work. And from there, I actually went and got my master's at Loyola in social justice, not in student affairs. I sort of know about student affairs at the time. So I did some great work at Loyola and actually found myself working in alumni and advancement, a couple of small private schools after I graduated. And then that's kind of what led me into pursuing my higher ed PhD. And, actually, that was when one of my faculty members at the time, Dr. Candice Hinton, said, you know what? I think you should think about this faculty gig. Dr. Amy E. French [00:02:51]: I think this really would suit you and your personality, and I just think it'd be great. And so I kinda laughed at her at first, and then she was like, no. But I'm not kidding. And then so she planted the seed, and it took all of about 2 weeks for me to call her back and say, hey. You know what? About that thing, how do I do that? And so began my kind of pursuit into the faculty side of the house. So I went from alumni and advancement, working full time during my PhD program, and then eventually, actually became a graduate assistant for a couple years. And then a lecturer at Indiana State University, and then actually went up as an assistant professor and became an associate professor at Indiana State. And then Bowling Green, you know, gave me a shot, and here we are. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:35]: And you're going back through the P and T process now. Yes? Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:38]: Yes. Yes. All my documents are submitted. Everything is looking good. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:42]: Congratulations preemptively. I'm sure it's gonna be smooth sailing. Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:46]: Stay tuned for a hopeful party in April in Bowling Green. There'll be a party. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:50]: Well, you're currently directing the CSP program, as I mentioned, or college student personnel program, which is the higher ed master's prep program at BG, which has long held a reputation for being an incredibly well rounded, robust, well well reputationaled program in the field. So tell us about what drew you to be leading this work. Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:11]: Yeah. So I'll be honest. I was so excited after applying to the Bowling Green State position. I was like, oh, I don't know. You know, this is a big deal. And I'll be honest. When I went for the interview, everything kind of fell into place. It was what I was looking for professionally as a challenge. Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:27]: It was scholarly, invigorating, and I really liked the people and the students, of course. I mean, best of the best. And so that kinda drew me into Bowling Green. And then once I got here, of course, learning more about the history, I knew about its long standing traditions. But to really get some one on one time to interact with Dr. Carney Strange at the Black Swamp Festival, to, you know, sit and talk with Dr. Mike Coombs. And, again, for them to just pour in that programmatic history as a maritime faculty was really great. And then getting to work with Dr. Ellen Broido, we have a lot of fun. And so this is my 3rd year, and I've really been intentional about listening to the students, listening to the community, listening to the faculty, and working collaboratively to try to make some decisions to lead us lead us into the next 60 years. Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:19]: So we just celebrated our 60th anniversary as a program. Technically, it doesn't end until December, but it depends on who's asking and who's looking at the history books. But so I signed it for last year, but we're gonna celebrate for 18 months because why not? Who doesn't love a party? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:35]: So looking at the kind of longevity of the program as well as your role in carrying the program from the present into the future, what are some of the historical markers of, college student personnel program or higher ed masters that had been really important for higher ed students of the past? Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:54]: Oh, yeah. Of the past. Well, goodness. So Gerald Saddlemyer, which which we have several lectures here at Bowling Green State, but also I believe some NASPA and ACPA awards named after Dr. Saddlemyer. He really paved the way for the program here at Bowling Green State, and I think that was at a time when campuses were quite tumultuous, when there wasn't crisis management training, when our student affairs professionals were really in the line of literal fire. In some instances, I'm thinking specifically about, you know, Kent State and learning what we've learned now from Dr. Erica Eckert's work and learning from those student affairs professionals at the time and what they were going through and what they were wrestling with, I think speaks a lot to why student affairs became a professional endeavor. And so looking at how do we train folks to really support undergraduate students as they're transitioning, as campuses become more chaotic in some ways, but I think also just more demanding in general. And so I think that's really where it started was we recognized a long time ago that there's more to college than what happens in the classroom, and it really is about those developmental components. Dr. Amy E. French [00:07:03]: It's about being a good citizen. It's about learning to manage conflict. It's about all of those things about being a person in our democracy. And so I think that's really what started BG's program, was that initial realization that, hey, we need folks who understand college students. And it was also at a time when we were learning more about college students. Right? Student development theory was just starting to emerge as a field of study. And so I think those things combined really formulated this pretty awesome lightning in a bottle moment for the Midwest, really. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:39]: I'm going to give a shout out to Dr. Erica Eckert, as you mentioned. If you're a long time listener of the show, we did an episode with her a couple of years ago now. And if you're new to the show, I would highly encourage you to go back and listen. It's one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded. We did a 2 part where Dr. Eckert and I talked about the history of the Kent State shootings that happened in the sixties. And then the second part of the episode is we had the 4 administrators who were responsible for responding to that incident on the show. And it was wonderful to hear their perspectives on what emergency management and crisis management sounded like at the time. If you can imagine doing this in an era before cell phones. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:15]: I believe one of them said that they had to run into a restaurant on the main street and find a phone, and they were literally printing flyers for students with information and all these other things. So I appreciate that that's part of the grounding of the BG program as well as looking at what those problems were in that era. Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:31]: Yeah. And we actually both programs came on board around the same time, and there's actually 2 statues, sister statues on our campuses honoring those who passed away from the Kent State shootings. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:42]: Now you've taken this program with a tremendous amount of history. You entered going, I'm going to listen a lot and try to figure out what to do with it. What was the state and priorities of the program when you inherited leadership? Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:54]: Yeah. I think coming out of COVID, our field looks different. Our students are I wouldn't say totally different. I think our students are amazing rock star students, but their priorities are different as well after the pandemic as are the expectations placed upon our site supervisors. And so everything kind of shifted. Priorities with funding, priorities with what is expected of grad students in the work. And I'm thinking specifically about residential life, fraternity and sorority life, some of those really face to face student positions. And so we had some real conversations about, okay, what does it look like to be within this field with a new so our student affairs units had been restructured several times in the last few years. Dr. Amy E. French [00:09:38]: And so working with those campus partners to look at what supporting our graduate students would be like, because I wanted to make sure that it's not just a student worker position. I really wanted to make sure that they're getting that training and the supervision to help them develop as full professionals. So that was a priority. The curriculum was a big priority as well. And so I've spent the last two and a half years really interrogating the curriculum, talking to faculty to understand some of the history of some of those components. And we're in the process of some, I think, pretty innovative and cool curriculum revisions that will hopefully take place next fall, if all things go through the proper channels on time. But I think we've got some pretty innovative things about to happen within our curriculum that kind of in some ways, it's definitely not changing all that much because there's still the focus on the history. There's still the focus on student development theory and some of the practical elements. Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:39]: But in some ways, we're kind of we're polishing it up, and we're we're adding some different Legos to the to the scaffolding. So I'm I'm pretty excited. So those were the top pieces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: Are you able to share what any of those shiny new Legos are? Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:51]: I can't say too much yet, but what I will say is we're gonna, in in some ways, double down on student development theory because one of the critiques and or challenges that our students have when they're in a 2 year master's program is really applying the theory, and so I will share that there's going to be a class that really looks at that directly. It's kind of beyond student development theory, and it's beyond student development theory 2.0 into more of an applied integration of theory. And even talking to professionals to interrogate, how do they do that? What are the ways? Because I think a lot of times we're doing that. We're just not using the words, the specific theory names, or the specific aspects, but it's definitely theory informed practice. And so I think this program being rooted in the historical underpinnings that it has, I think it's really important that we double down on our story. And so that's one aspect. Another component is going to be intentionally engaging with artificial intelligence. And I'm really pumped about that. Dr. Amy E. French [00:11:57]: And I'm still doing some training with some new software folks. But one of the aspects that I will give you a little teaser is we've got some 360 degree cameras, and our students are gonna be going places throughout the country looking at college spaces in some new ways. So I'm really pumped about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:15]: I love the aspect of tech integration into the modern curriculum of student affairs. It's definitely where we're going, and we've had a couple of episodes this season that talk about AI. I wanna loop back to the conversation on theory though, especially as someone who's innovating the curriculum. We've always had this tension in the field about the social justice aspects of the historical underpinnings of who our theories were created by and for. How are you addressing that tension with the modern day aspect of going, we still need to apply the basics of understanding how students are developing throughout their 4 years. Dr. Amy E. French [00:12:48]: Yeah. So I think that's a fantastic question. And it's gonna sound cheesy, but I think the example that I'm gonna use is gonna fall on the green book. Right? So so the latest edition Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:59]: The famous green book. Dr. Amy E. French [00:13:00]: The current edition starts with identity development and goes backwards as opposed to starting with the foundations and moving forward. And so I think that's a really important aspect. Our students, what I'm finding when I teach student development theory to today's student, they already understand identity development to certain extents. They already understand certain aspects of power, privilege, and oppression, but it's the integration of how does all of this make sense? What does this do? How do I listen and learn from others to engage with the students that I'm interfacing with to support them in their development. And so I think in a lot of ways, the social justice aspects and the diversity and the equity components are going to be infused throughout. But instead of it being like a day that we talk about sexual identity development, it's going to be more integrated throughout. It's gonna be those woven threads. I think the challenge is our books don't do that because they kind of can't. Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:00]: In order to talk about the theories and explain the nuances, you do have to have a chapter on racial identity development. Certainly. And then what do we do next? And so the way that we're framing it is almost backwards. So we're starting where we are now and going from, like, kind of that archaeological component as Dr. Ali Watts would say, like using that layering backwards component. So I'm excited about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:23]: BG has also had historical underpinnings as a program, if I recall correctly, that really emphasizes or even has maybe required graduate students to also have an assistantship placement throughout the program, which there has been conversations in the field for a while about the value of that or whether or not that's necessary to prepare functional practitioners. So I'm wondering if you can talk about how that is currently nestled in the structure, as well as how the program views the value of that practical experience in that 2 year program. Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:53]: Absolutely. So we think we at Bowling Green think that is a critical component to the developmental aspects. I think there's something really powerful that happens when a student comes in and begins learning the academic material and they're being exposed to new professional spaces, right, and new student groups. And so while that 1st semester might be a blur for students, to be fair, right, because it's all new and they're they're soaking it all in and they're like, wait, how do I grad student? Because that's a verb now. But truly, they're getting all of that comprehensive material and that information in a way that really sets them apart. And so we at Bowling Green still have full paying tuition, graduate assistantships. They also pay a stipend. Some live on campus within our housing communities. Dr. Amy E. French [00:15:42]: Some don't have housing. Well, many campuses are losing that funding, and we have the support of our administration to continue with those and and even increase them. There's a really tough tension, I think, between the financial components though as graduate student stipends increase and then the the pay of an emerging professional still being lower than it should be. So there's some really tough balances, but our institution has committed to supporting those assistantships because they are an integral part of even our undergraduate student experience. BG has been ranked number 1 as the I think it's the top student satisfaction campus in the Midwest, and that to me directly correlates with our priority on student affairs and higher education. Right? It's our graduate students who are interacting with undergraduate students, supporting them, offering challenges, listening to their ideas, pushing them, and that together, along with amazing professionals, comes together to make that satisfaction rate so high. It's one of the best campuses for a reason, and I think part of it is our focus on student affairs. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:56]: One of the, I think, mysteries in our profession is whether or not slash how do graduate prep programs communicate with each other about what's important for students to be learning, as well as how is that communication happening with the practitioners in the field? We're gonna be hiring students coming out of these programs. Can you elucidate at all what that communication looks like? Where where are these conversations happening? How is this curricular idea set being kind of amalgamated together with the brightest scholar minds in our field? Dr. Amy E. French [00:17:24]: Sure. So I think the NASPA Faculty Institute is always one of the places that I start when I begin to think about curriculum and even some specific course ideation. Last year at NASPA, I had a phenomenal conversation with Dr. Candice Moore at Maryland College Park, and we sat and talked about the history of our programs. We talked about the importance of theory. We sat at a round table with some other program coordinators and kinda just spitballed ideas and shared our challenges and our frustrations, but not in a way to, like, oh, what was us? Right? But, like, really to try to generate what do we do? How do we respond? How do we continue pivoting to support our students so that they understand and recognize the relevance in addition to those who are hiring our professionals to understand and recognize. So interestingly, just this week, Dr. Erica Eckert and I got a group of program coordinators together from the state of Ohio, and we had 7 institutions represented on the call. And we talked about curriculum, and we talked about funding, and we talked about marketability and employability. And one of our action items is to get on the call with the vice presidents of student affairs in the region because we can't have the conversation by ourselves. Dr. Amy E. French [00:18:39]: It is a partnership, and it's an ongoing discussion. And I think the other thing that I'll say is we had a new professionals in transition conference for our students last Friday, and so that's where our students are working with our alumni base to talk about their emergence into the field, preparation with interview practice, mock interviews, and also just like a general conference type sessions as well as some mentoring and networking sessions. So great student run, student led event. It started about 25 years ago. It's taken a lot of different twists and turns, but one of the things that I did when I came on board is I said, I'm gonna find the brightest and best alumni to come to campus, not just for I mean, we we do some Zooming things as well because I think you have to anymore, but I wanted to bring them to campus and have them interact with our students. And so this year, we brought in Dr. Ashley Brown, who is assistant dean of students at Emory University. She's one of our rock star alumni. BG has lots of them. Dr. Amy E. French [00:19:38]: Right? I think just about any campus you go on, you're gonna find some BG alums. But Dr. Brown has been tasked with basically redesigning her student affairs division and hiring the staff. And one thing that she shared was the importance of hiring folks with master's degrees in student affairs because they understand. They have the identity development lens. They have the power, privilege, and oppression perspectives. They understand the layers of the institutional bureaucracy in ways that other disciplines, while the professionals might be great coming from other disciplines, there's a real cost to getting those professionals up to speed and running forward. And so that was really encouraging for me to hear that as she continues pivoting and bringing up her division, and that's something that I'm hearing from other vice presidents as well, is that importance of the perspective and the depth of what they come with. And so I I really hope the field can compensate them accordingly, because I think that is one of the biggest challenges we're facing as a profession right now as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:42]: Definitely. Equitable pay, and then we've got federal overtime laws and we could be facing a lot of different federal changes coming in the next 4 years. Lots of unknowns with that for sure. I'm also wondering how your program and maybe programs in general are are developing courses or curricula that help address some of the skill gaps that I know as practitioners we talk a lot about. So for example, you know, when I was sitting in dean of student seats, one thing I would always notice is that we don't teach supervision well as a profession at all. It's a skill set that is typically learned as you go, and we don't teach the theory behind supervision or any of the different cultural aspects, things like that. So that'd be one skill gap. And we just had Mike Segawa, a distinguished pillar of the profession on the show a couple weeks ago, and he was talking about a need for grad prep programs to do better about teaching advocacy skills in terms of telling our story as a profession, those types of things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: So can you talk a little bit about how those might be rising? Dr. Amy E. French [00:21:34]: Yeah. So I think you just hit my hot button issue, Jill. But telling your story, oh my gosh. It is absolutely essential. If we don't tell our story and demonstrate our relevance of how our campuses are able to exist because of student affairs labor, we are failing. And I know that sounds dramatic, but I actually genuinely believe that. If administrators don't understand the actual numerical value of what we're doing, it becomes increasingly difficult to justify pay equity, pay raises, increased positions. It is a real challenge. Dr. Amy E. French [00:22:12]: So one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is where does this fall within a curriculum? As states, it was just in Inside Higher Edda about a month ago, how state governments are deciding curriculum for programs. They're really getting involved in some states with what's being offered and what we can do and what we can't do. That has not been the case in Ohio yet, although I'm a little concerned. But anyway, that has not been the case yet. What that does is that takes away our autonomy to really train and prepare folks. And so with kind of that restrained squeezing and that added pressure, I'm acutely aware, and I think about helping skills. Right? Coming from a some sort of a counseling pastoral background myself, a lot of the training that I had was in helping skills, not specifically counseling, but that's a layer as well. And so how do we tell that story to our administrators to justify what we're doing and also to protect ourselves from burnout? I think understanding, as you pointed out, the academic discipline aspects of supervision and the counseling components for helping skills, conflict resolution, not just learning how to do the thing, but the behind the scenes of how to do the thing, I actually think, takes some of the burden off our shoulders when we're doing the good work. Dr. Amy E. French [00:23:29]: And I tell my students that all the time and they chuckle. But I'm serious. Right? Like, unless we understand that these issues are much larger than this moment that I'm in today with my supervisor or my supervisees, it feels so much more onerous and so much more taxing. And so one thing that we do at BGSU is we have what's called 6890, but all of the alums on the call will know what I'm talking about. And it's a reflective practice class, and it meets every single semester of the program. And within that class, we had the luxury to kind of respond to what we think that group of students needs or what we feel like within our curriculum might be lacking. We're also, this coming semester, gonna have an I'm like, this will be fun to see what happens, but it's a class that's gonna be offered. It's an elective on campus politics. Dr. Amy E. French [00:24:18]: And how do we navigate all of the things? Right? So, like, advocacy, how do we navigate just even internal bureaucratic components? How do I know to ask certain questions and when to ask certain questions of maybe my supervisor or my supervisees? How to know even when to read between the lines sometimes? I don't know that there's a way we can teach that per se, but I think talking about it, bringing it to the table and bringing in professionals who are doing that every day, I think, is just helpful perspective to have. And when students do practicums, I always tell them, I'm like, ask the tough questions. Ask the questions that you know that you will feel uncomfortable when you're employed by those folks to ask because you're a student. So the power of a student is to gain all the perspective. So ask those questions. And if the supervisor comes back and says, ouch. That's a tough question. Good lesson. Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:11]: Right? Like, good thing to know to be mindful of those things when you move into the field. But there's so many layers, and I don't think we talk about that until students get into the profession, and then they're inundated with all of these different internal politics, external politics, all of those pieces. It's hard. And I always get phone calls about right now. It's usually mid November, early December from the group that just graduated because they've been in their new position for a minute, not a long time, but a minute. And there's usually something that comes up that feels funky, and they need to talk it out. And I wonder if our profession also might have a space for those new professionals as well. But it's like a clock that alarm goes off and I know, oh, yep. Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:52]: And it's not everyone, but there's a handful of students. And I become very concerned when it happens so quickly that we're gonna lose those really top leaders because of some of those aspects. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: I'll be very curious to hear how this class ends up serving the student population. And I don't think you're gonna know until they come out the other side semester or a year after that first position rolls out, or maybe it's something they reflect on as they become more senior level practitioners. But I'm glad to hear that these conversations are happening in the curricular space. Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:21]: Oh, yeah. Definitely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Amy, I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. I've been loving this rich conversation with you around how that is presenting within graduate prep curricula, but we can talk about it both from that perspective and from the holistic nature of student affairs. So our question on the past is, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:48]: Oh, you know I love a good history question. So I'm gonna answer this in 2 different ways. I had the privilege to attend the National Endowment for the Humanities series this summer at George Mason University where we unpacked the history of higher education. And so I got to dive in in a lot of really cool ways to some archival documents. And so on the what we should hold on to piece, I would say archives. Understanding and knowing what is in our archives and and also question what's missing, I think is a really important component of our past and we don't wanna lose sight of that. And with everything going virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed a real burden on our university libraries, on our archivists, for document management, as well as telling our story. And so to me, that's something that I've been all all fired up about, and I'm, like, ready to get a U Haul van and drive it across the country for my sabbatical, collecting all the things that everybody's got because I think it really is that important. And just a funny thing, I like to find the quirky stories because I think student affairs professionals are fun people, and I don't want us to lose sight of the fun in our job. Like, we like students, and we like to be around students, and we like to see them grow and develop. And so for my homework for this institute that I did, I looked at Melvin Hardy, who a few awards are named after actually within both NASPA and ACPA, I think. And so there's some letters that she wrote as an undergraduate student at Northern Iowa. The first one started talking about macaroni and cheese in the dining hall and how it was great. So she's not going hungry. Dr. Amy E. French [00:28:28]: Don't worry, mom and dad. All is well. And and that was written in the early thirties, kind of coming out of the depression. And there was a lot of anxiety, and there was a lot of concern about just taking care of basic needs. And so throughout Melvene's letters that she wrote home, she was really homesick. But one of the comments that she made was, I have all of my basic needs cared for. I just don't have you talking about her parents. And I think that is so important for us to remember about why we do the work that we do and that her moving through those different stages and those processes, right, that we actually have record of, right, that she shared with the student affairs archives here at Bowling Green State to demonstrate the challenges and the struggles of a student. Dr. Amy E. French [00:29:13]: And what's going on outside externally, right, was so much bigger. And she recognized the privilege that she had in being able to go and pursue a college degree. And it was still hard. It was still challenging to be a woman on a campus that was a normal school, right, that prioritize education, but still, it's hard. And then she went on to become a rock star pillar of our profession, and one of her students wrote of her, I think it was, the pillar of the profession honorary notes that were written. And it said, you know, no one better than Dr. Hardy with her go go boots and her smile. Right? And so I again, it's cheesy, but she wore go go boots, you know, small in stature, but big in personality. And I think we sometimes forget that that there are pillars of our profession all around us doing really important work, and I don't know that we amplify that enough. Dr. Amy E. French [00:30:06]: I always tell my students that when students send you a thank you note, even if it's in an email, print it off and put it in a folder somewhere because that will bring you joy, and that joy will help sustain you. And if you don't need the joy that day, you're gonna need it another day, so put it in the bank. Right? Deposit it for later. And I just think my research on Dr. Hardy, there's been several articles written about her and and whatnot, but I had never read about the mac and cheese or the go go boots. And I think those are the pieces that I do think we should as cheesy as it sounds, hot mac and cheese, pun intended, as cheesy as it sounds, I don't want us to lose sight of that within our history. That all of these folks were people. They were students at one time who had their own challenges and celebrations and achievements, and they chose to do this work because it matters. And so as as administration and as governments, you know, make decisions about our profession, it really is up to us to identify the meaning behind what we do. Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:06]: And yes, we need theory, and yes, we need empirical research to demonstrate the whys. But I think without the actual historical components that tell our stories of who we are and why we're doing the work, what's the point? And I don't want us to lose the point of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]: Moving to the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:25]: Oh, man. We've got some of the best students coming into our programs. They are so fired up about supporting students. And I'll be honest, they understand in a very different way, I think, because of moving through COVID, all the different layers that are associated with student support that I can't even begin to think about. So, yes, there's research on social the impact of social media. Yes. There's research on artificial intelligence. But but our students today get it on a real level. Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:54]: And to me, I think they're going to be pushing and challenging us to do better with some of those pieces and to to figure out some new ways to support those students because we know there's a lot of unknowns within that, but our students get it. My master students come up with some things sometimes that I'm like, I never even thought of that. And to me, that's exciting. And I know that may not be something new, but I guess that's why I do what I do. Right? I kind of like our students. They're kind of awesome. I would say that's something that's going really well is that they're really in touch and they care deeply about our undergrad students, and they've got some really cool ideas of ways to support them in ways that we've never done it before. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:33]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future? Dr. Amy E. French [00:32:38]: I think telling our story. I think we start there. And I think some practical aspects getting out of our own way sometimes. So some of the things that we've held on to for so long because that's the way you do it. That's like the one thing that sticks in my crawls so so bad is, well, it's always been done that way. And that is the wrong way to think about the future. I wasn't here when it was done that way 30 years ago. My students certainly weren't here. Dr. Amy E. French [00:33:05]: So how is it relevant? How is what we're doing actually relevant? And I think while that might be hard to answer, we cannot continue reifying certain oppressive behaviors and structures just for the sake of it. And so that's something that I've really done at Bowling Green State is ask a lot of hard questions of my colleagues and hard questions of my dean and our provost to say, but why? And I actually see some positive movement on those. You know, when I when I really sit and I challenge those notions, they've been very responsive to that. But I think those grad programs that aren't able to ask and look in the mirror is a big deal, and I will add that I am prioritizing the residential on campus program. I think that is a really important part of our development that we can't get with an asynchronous approach. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is coming up February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium featuring keynotes, sessions, research policy, and best practice presentations, as well as workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. While you're at this conference, you'll have a great opportunity to be able to connect with other colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:02]: Early registration deadline ends on December 16th with the regular registration deadline going from December 17th to January 15th. You can find out more on the NASPO website. TPE virtual placement is coming up March 3rd through 7th with registration opening up on December 20th. At the virtual placement event, TPE is committed to fostering meaningful interview connections and supporting growth within student affairs. Whether you are an employer seeking the right candidate or a job seeker eager to make a lasting impact or looking for a job, this event is designed to help you navigate the dynamic landscape of opportunities and possibilities. So who is this virtual placement for? Well, it's for graduate and undergraduate students who are seeking full time entry level employment after graduation, early career professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or opportunities for advancement into mid level roles, or mid level professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or advancement into upper mid level positions or finally mid level professionals looking for leadership opportunities at the director or unit leader level positions. If you would fall into any of those categories, I highly encourage you to register for this dynamic event. Again, the event is March 3rd through 7th, and registration opens on December 20th. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:28]: You can find out more at the placement exchange dot org. Finally, today, I'll talk about the 2025 NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy. This is happening June 23rd to 27th in Clearwater Beach, Tampa, Florida. The NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy offers the only certificate in the important area of law and policy tailored specifically for student affairs educators. This is a 23 hour intensive residential certificate that provides an opportunity for in-depth study to enhance student affairs professionals knowledge and understanding of law and policy. This is the only program of its type and the only certificate specifically recommended for members of NASPA and other student affairs focused associations. As mentioned, the certificate will take place June 23rd through 27th, and it is an amazing educational opportunity with certificate topics in public law, private law, law and the legal system, and special issues in student affairs law and policy. You do have to apply to be a part of this professional development opportunity and the application must be submitted by March 1, 2025 to be considered. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:41]: If you are selected, you will receive more information on how to register for the 2025 NASPA certificate program in student affairs, law and policy. Highly encourage you to check this out for yourself. All you have to do is go to the NASPA website and go under events to find out more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:55]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:23]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us informed about what's going on in and around NASPA. You always come up with such great information for us. And, Amy, we are now back with our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll? Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:39]: I'm ready. Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:41]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:46]: Oh my gosh. I have 90 seconds. I'm thinking something Disney. I don't know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:51]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:54]: A choo choo train. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:55]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:58]: Dr. Mary Howard Hamilton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:02]: I like all of them. I don't know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:06]: What We Do in the Shadows. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:11]: Crime Junkie. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:16]: I don't know. I just wanna say hi to all my students at BGSU. My rock star colleagues, Dr. Ellen Broido and Dr. Ali Watts. Oh, and my dog, boss Treeway McScruff. He's my sidekick and coauthor to everything. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Amy, it's been so lovely to learn from you today. I know I've learned a lot. And if any of our listeners would like to have a connection with you after the show airs, how can they find you? Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:36]: You can send me an email at aefrenc@bgsu.edu . Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:41]: Amy, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:44]: Cool. Thank you so much, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:25]: This episode was produced and by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis . Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Redefining Student Affairs: Insights from Dr. Ainsley Carry 44:18

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In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Ainsley Carry , Vice President for Students at the University of British Columbia (UBC), to discuss the current state and future directions of student affairs. Their conversation ranges from the importance of listening to students and adapting to cultural nuances, to the evolving role of AI and mental health support on campus. The Evolution of Student Affairs A Shift from Traditional Theories Dr. Ainsley Carry highlights that student affairs have undergone significant changes over the years. Historically, the field focused on career placement and leadership development, often driven by traditional theories like those proposed by Tinto and Chickering. However, Dr. Carry critiques these models for being outdated and restrictive. He argues for the necessity of freeing student affairs from these old theoretical constraints to better align with the evolving needs and cultures of modern students. From Leadership to Inclusivity The emphasis has gradually shifted from leadership, with its positional nature, to inclusivity in participation. Today's student affairs professionals recognize the importance of engaging students inside and outside the classroom, acknowledging the challenges in measuring qualitative learning experiences. According to Dr. Carry, the current trends in student affairs reflect a return to career exploration and identity development, rather than mere placement, recognizing the global nature of modern careers and the importance of early engagement through internships. Listening and Feedback Sessions Dr. Carry has introduced listening sessions at UBC, conducting over 100 sessions with thousands of student participants. These sessions are crucial for gathering feedback, understanding what works well, and identifying areas needing improvement. The methodology is simple but effective: asking students what’s working, what isn’t, what should be maintained, what should be stopped, and what other questions they have. This process ensures that student voices are heard and integrated into strategic planning. Enhancing Mental Health Support Reducing Wait Times and Expanding Access Mental health support on campuses has seen substantial improvements, as Dr. Carry points out. Universities have reduced wait times for counseling and expanded access through both in-person and virtual formats. Regulatory changes now allow cross-state counseling, and a greater number of individuals are pursuing careers in counseling, contributing to a robust pool of professionals ready to support students. Destigmatizing Mental Health Discussions Efforts are ongoing to destigmatize mental health discussions. Dr. Carry emphasizes that addressing mental health proactively is central to supporting students’ overall well-being. Institutions are aiming to normalize these conversations, making it easier for students to seek help without fear of judgment. The Promise of AI in Higher Education 24/7 Student Services One of the most exciting topics Dr. Carry discusses is the potential of artificial intelligence (AI) in student affairs. Just as calculators once transformed education, AI has the potential to offer 24/7 student services. This could address the common mismatch between student needs and the traditional service hours of university offices. AI can provide continuous support for academic, career, and mental health advising, particularly during after-hours when human staff are unavailable. Supplementing Human Interactions It’s crucial to note that Dr. Carry views AI as a supplement, not a replacement, for human interactions. While AI can enhance the availability and efficiency of student services, the human touch remains irreplaceable. AI can manage routine inquiries and provide timely responses, leaving more complex and sensitive issues for human professionals to handle. Navigating Cultural Differences in Higher Education Adapting to the Canadian Context Moving to Canada in 2019, Dr. Carry had to adapt to the Canadian higher education landscape, which differs significantly from the U.S. context. One prominent difference he observed was the less prominent role of Greek life and a lower incidence of binge drinking. Moreover, Canadian universities have a more balanced approach to college sports, and there’s a reduced concern about gun violence on campuses. Emphasizing Health and Well-Being In Canada, student health and well-being is a primary focus, especially considering the varying healthcare needs of international students. Dr. Carry underscores the importance of making career development resources accessible right from the first year and tackling affordability issues exacerbated by fluctuating international currencies. A Future-Forward Approach to Student Affairs Dr. Ainsley Carry's insights demonstrate a future-forward approach to student affairs, emphasizing the need to evolve with changing student demographics and cultural contexts. By integrating student feedback, enhancing mental health support, and leveraging AI, institutions can create more inclusive and supportive environments. As we look to the future, it’s clear that student affairs must continue to innovate and adapt, always keeping the well-being and success of students at its core. As always, NASPA's SA Voices From the Field thanks its listeners for their support and encourages feedback, topic suggestions, and reviews to continue delivering content that matters. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we continue our journey with International Student Affairs Professionals by welcoming doctor Ainsley Carry. Ainsley joined the University of British Columbia on April 1st, 2019 as the vice president, students. Ainsley has responsibility for a portfolio that includes student health and wellness, center for student involvement and careers, center for community engaged learning, student housing and community services, and athletics and recreation. He also oversees strategic priorities, such as the university's well-being framework, sexual violence prevention and response office, and anti racism initiatives. The vice president's student's portfolio is responsible for a $300,000,000 budget, including more than 25 100 full time employees and 1500 student employees. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:05]: Ainsley's responsibilities encompass undergraduate and graduate students on the Vancouver and Okanagan campuses. Ainsley joins UBC from the University of Southern California where he served as VPSA from 2013 to 2019, and before that, Auburn University where he served in the same position from 2009 through 2013. Ainsley held a faculty role in the Rossier School of Education at USC and Auburn University's College of Ed. His higher education career includes stints at Temple University, the University of Arkansas, and Southern Methodist University. He's a 3 time graduate of the University of Florida where he earned his bachelor's degree, master's in counseling, and doctorate in higher education administration. Ainsley also earned an MBA from Auburn in 2011 and a master of studies of law from the University of Southern California in 20 19. Ainsley brings over 30 years of experience in college administration. He led several institutional initiatives to combat sexual violence on campus, prevent hazing, and respond to campus protests. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:55]: Yet Ainsley is most proud of his work to enhance the student experience. Ainsley wrote, throughout my career, I've come to realize that our greatest responsibility as academic leaders includes the health, wellness, and safety of all students. Issues of sexual misconduct, mental health, overconsumption of alcohol, and equity are public health matters. When any of these experiences negatively impact any student, their their learning experience is severely compromised. We must tackle these challenges with the same rigor to approach public health issues. Evidence based and prevention focused, there's no reason why UBC cannot be the healthiest campus in Canada. Ainslie begins his journey at UBC with a mission to interact with students daily and build academic partnerships outside the classroom. Ainsley, welcome to SA Voices from the Field. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:02:35]: Jill. It's so good to be here today, and thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]: I always love getting the opportunity to talk to other student affairs professionals who are global. And you have been both domestically state side and are currently global. So I'm really looking forward to digging into your wealth of experience on the past, present, and future of student affairs, especially bringing in that Canadian perspective. You're currently sitting in the VPSA seat at UBC, University of British Columbia. And the first thing we always love to do on our show is get to know you by asking you, how did you land in your current seat? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:03:06]: So I'll go a little bit back. I went to school at the University of Florida in Gainesville, and then I went there to play football. So I was so much in love with the sport that that was my motivation for going to university. But while I was there, I fell in love with learning things. I realized that if I applied the skills that I learned in my sport and applied those skills in the classroom that I could learn anything that I wanted to. So slowly, my 3rd 4th year, my attention drifted completely academics. And while I was focused on academics, I had the chance to work with other students who were still trying to figure out their learning strategies. And that intrigued me so much that when I graduated from the university, I first took my initial passion going to corporate America and I went into retail and I hated that experience. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:03:50]: So it catapulted me back to the University of Florida. And I said, you know what? I enjoyed, I enjoyed helping people learn and helping them make meaning out of life. What degree program is that? And someone guided me into college administration, higher ed counseling with a student affairs focus. At the time, I didn't know it. I didn't understand it, but I knew the people that were most influential in my life were those Ired administrators, the deans of students, the vice presidents for student affairs. I remember Tom Hill was the dean of students at the University of Florida when I was a student, and then he's been this incredible pillar of the profession since then. So I earned my masters in higher administration and my doctorate in college administration and worked around the US at a number of different universities. Not gonna recall maybe about 10 years ago sitting now with my family and trying to imagine what's part of that future. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:04:41]: We wanted to have an international experience, we wanted to live somewhere else in the world, drive on the other side of the road, eat different food, develop completely different taste buds and perhaps even learn a foreign language. We wanted our daughter to be a global citizen and what would that look like? So we imagine all these countries we might live in Singapore, Australia, China, Hong Kong, like where the places in the world we wanted to go and if that opportunity came up, we would say yes. So I received a call from a recruiter at the University of British Columbia. So I thought, woah, here's a great school in Great Britain, of course. Well, when I went and did my homework on it, I realized British Columbia is not in Great Britain. It's not even in Columbia. It's in Vancouver, Canada. So I made the trip up here, took the interview, fell in love with the environment, the people, and the portfolio is amazing. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:05:33]: And I have a pleasure of working with an incredible group of student affairs professionals. So my journey was about saying yes to opportunities. That's how I ended up here at UBC beginning in 2019. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:44]: You remind me a lot of my friend, doctor Rafael Alex Moffett. He and I met when he was over in China and I succeeded him in a role over overseas in China. And, I think all of us who have taken that expat leap have that similar sense of adventure within us, but that global citizenship value as definitely something core to our being and and figuring out in the world. But I'm gonna say, Ainsley, you do not wanna drive on the other side of the road. I've been in the UK for about 6, 7 months now. I did drive for the first time. I thought it might die the entire time, So maybe don't put that one on the bucket list. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:06:16]: Gotcha. Good to know. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:18]: But you've been up at UBC for about 5 years now, riding it out through the pandemic in a different cultural context than the one that you come from, especially after having led in the US for so long. Can you talk to us about the first things that struck you as different in the Canadian higher ed context from maybe what you were expecting given your US training? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:06:37]: Yeah. And I'll go pre pandemic. Prior to coming to UBC in Vancouver, I served as a vice president for students at Auburn University in Alabama. Enjoyed that Southeastern Conference. I'm an SCC graduate, so it was great to be in the conference and and be part of the energy and the atmosphere working and living in the SCC. And then after Auburn, I became the vice president for students at the University of Southern California at Los Angeles. Also, a major institution, major college athletics, big Greek life, donors and alumni support was incredible there. Just really great solid institutions. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:07:11]: I came over the border north to Canada in 2019 and began my service as vice president for students here. So this was my 3rd vice presidency and I committed myself to arriving here and completely embedding myself in the new culture, listening, not making assumptions, suspending judgment about anything and really become a student of the environment. Like, let me learn it before I make any preconceived notions or make the mistake of copying what I learned somewhere else and attempting to paste it in a brand new culture. So I listened for my entire 1st year and learned so much and just have a great appreciation for the slight nuances and higher ed administration in Canada. Here's what popped out of me within my 1st year. At the end of the 1st year, some things were significantly different in my role as vice president. One, for example, I spent a lot of time at my prior institutions concerned with regard to issues of overconsumption of a binge drinking culture. So when there was Greek life and college athletics and big game days, alcohol was a part of the culture, and not a casual drinking way, in a binge drinking way. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:08:21]: So my Saturday nights or Sunday mornings were consumed with responding to what happened the football game before. And sometimes that was an incredible drain on the student affairs team because we were responding at night to issues related to overconsumption of alcohol and students being transported to the hospitals. That had not been my experience in Canada. Canada is much more casual drinkers, so they consume alcohol, some may over consume, but the notion of drinking an entire bottle of vodka and 30 minutes is not an activity here that I've seen in my experience. So that completely changed the rhythm of my life, what the weekends meant. Greek life is a different culture here. It's not as prominent. It does not rule over decision making at the university in ways that it had at some schools in the states. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:09:09]: So completely different culture. I didn't have to be concerned as much about issues of gun violence on campus. In previous institutions, I recall legislation work making its way through the state legislature about whether students should be able to carry firearms on campus. That is not a question that's coming up here in any Canadian context. The obsession with college sports, there's a healthy balance of the need for our teams to be successful and win, but there's a greater balance on those students being students before their athletes. And there is this overwhelming obsession with college football, college hockey, you name it. So it's an incredibly balanced environment with regard to those things. The last thing that I noticed, the diversity here was different. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:09:58]: The diversity at UBC is a global diversity. Students coming from countries all over the world make up our international student population. In the US, it was largely black or Hispanic or different US cultures with a spattering of international students here. It's almost a complete blend of all of those cultures. So those were some of the things that I noticed that were distinctively different in Canada, and I can imagine different places in in the world may have some things that are different. What some of the things that were the same concerns about sexual violence also happening here, concerns related to mental health and students also happening here and how the administration supports that, issues of affordability, especially around housing and food, they are present here. So we have some of the same concerns, but many of the things that would consume the time of the vice president, I found to be less consuming here, quite less consuming. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:55]: And then looking at that alternatively, then what do you focus on most in the Canadian context as a bpsa Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:11:02]: student health and well-being is number 1. My 1st year, I spent that entire year hosting student listening sessions, small groups of 25 students. Sometimes I'd buy pizza for 400 students, and they'd show up in an auditorium and we would just talk. And I'd ask those students 5 questions. What's working? It's not working. What must we continue doing? What must we stop doing? And what question am I not asking you that you wish you I would ask and you wanted to provide an answer? And we did about 20 listening sessions with over 500 students in that 1st year. And the primary issues that came up navigating student healthcare was number 1. Our students were coming from all over the world and their healthcare systems were different than the healthcare that they were trying to navigate for the first time as an 18 or 19 year old 1st year student. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:11:53]: They were away from their parents and they were making their own health related decisions and we didn't make it easy for them. We had multiple health center operations and students had to identify which one to go to in between classes and then they would find themselves at the wrong one and then they had to take another day to make another appointment to go to the other wrong place and by that time their health condition may have worsened or it may have resolved itself but we also found students who just said you know what it's too complicated I'll just wait till I go home And as you can imagine with health related issues, they don't get better as time goes along. You actually have to get them treated or get them responded to. So the first thing we worked on was fixing or making it easier for students to navigate health care. The second major concern that students raise were issues related to career development. So many students arrived on campus, had a great first and second year, then kinda woke up that 3rd year and realized, I wish I knew about this internship in my 1st year. I I would have taken advantage of it and I would be more prepared. Again, we didn't make it easy for students to navigate their career journey. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:12:59]: We didn't make it clear. We didn't make it structurally unavoidable. So we had to find ways to make a smarter process for that. And then the 3rd major issue here are issues of affordability. Now that we've navigated health care, we are building out our career development process. The thing that has bubbled to the top are issues related to affordability. We have a large international student community with the Canadian dollar is different than the dollar from their international country. We have geopolitical conflicts going on impacting individuals' ability to continue to study, natural disasters happening, so issues of affordability, housing and food are prominent on the list. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:13:39]: At UBC, it's not unique to Canada, this is a global impact on student learning right now and it's really impacting their mental health and impacting everything else. So all of those things combined, student health and well-being is our number one priority. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:56]: I wanna reflect back on those 5 questions you've been asking the students in the listening sessions. I feel those are really great open ended questions that really anyone in student affairs, regardless of the level that you're working at in an organization, can use to begin some light assessment on how your your services are functioning or how your programs and impacts are really kind of setting with the students. So can you please repeat those for Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:14:20]: us? Sure. So I begin with letting the students know today, here are 5 questions that I will pose to the group. You don't have to answer all of them. You may choose 1. You may choose 2, but don't feel compelled to answer all of them. What I wanna know and this is while students are enjoying their pizza and getting ready for the session. What I wanna know is, number 1, what's working for you? What what are we doing a great job of? And you wanna say, dear university, thank you for putting this in place. We need that feedback. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:14:53]: Number 2, what's not working? Kind of the opposite side of the first question. There's something that we've put in place that we think is a good thing, but it's not working for students. Or there may be a policy in place that's completely outdated, was designed in the eighties or the nineties, and it no longer makes sense to the student population who's here right now, so what's not working? Number 3, what is the one thing you want us to maintain? Sometimes students hear concerns about something that's gonna discontinue or we're gonna stop doing something. What's the one thing that we have to keep in place that students say this event, this tradition, this ceremony, this activity is so precious to us. We really want this to stay in place. The 4th question is if you had to pick one thing that you want us to absolutely stop doing this, it's related to the first two questions, but what's the thing that you want us to stop doing? And then the 5th question is, what's the question you wish the administration would ask you, but we have not asked you and you wanted to tell us about? So we outline those 5 questions, we keep them on poster boards nearby and I say, pick 1 or answer all 5. It's up to you. But don't feel compelled to answer all 5. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:16:06]: Typically, students will stand up and say, let me tell you something that's working. And then they say, to be fair, let me also examine with you. Here's something I'm really bothered by. In a few cases, students have stood up and said, here's a question that I wish the administration would ask us more because I wanna hear the answer. And most recently, that question came up about how are we supporting students who are single parents, category that we had not wrapped our minds on. We thought about families, but we hadn't wrapped our mind around the complications of single parents. So we have done 100 of listening sessions now over the past 5 plus years that I've been here. 1,000 of students have participated and we have a note taker there that collects notes. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:16:54]: And then we summarize all of those notes, produce a report and then share it with the audience that came. We do our best to answer each of the questions and this feedback session is what has helped us produce our strategic plans. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: This is a great present practice. I think a lot of people should be incorporating the student voice into their student affairs strategic plans a little more. But I'm also wondering how you navigate when you know that there's something that a student needs, but your teams simply don't have the bandwidth, the resources, or the foci to navigate that particular need. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:17:24]: Yeah. That's a good question. So we make it clear at the beginning that this is a listening session. So I'm not always there to solve the particular issue immediate. So sometimes students bring to the stage a very personal issue with regard to men their own mental health issues of sexual violence that I often ask to pause. And we do have counselors that are there with us. I asked the student if we could take this personal issue offline so that we can help them solve their issue directly. And we'll take that student's name, that student's phone number, sometimes we'll have a counselor who continues the conversation with them, but we make sure that we help address that individual student and their need. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:18:06]: As you said, sometimes there's an issue that we cannot resolve, whether it's a geopolitical conflict, students have come to these listening sessions and said, we want the university to demand a ceasefire right now, why won't you demand a ceasefire? And we find ourselves in this kind of, well, that's not within our capacity to resolve that right now, but we understand your concern. Let us understand at the depth of that concern, what is the thing that we can do on campus? So sometimes we play it out with students in the audience. What's the alternative for us to address geopolitical concerns among our campus community. But for the most part, we have found students with an individual concern is real tricky when we pull them aside and have a 1 on 1 with them, we can help them resolve that problem. If it's within the scope of the universe, it might be outside of the portfolio of the vice president for students. But our work is to advocate for students wherever it's happening. So if it's in an academic function, we'll work with the dean or the associate dean of that academic function. If it's in housing or dining or in the community, we will help the students navigate it. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:19:11]: So thus far, we've been mostly in the ballpark of issues that we can respond to as a university, not just VP for students, but as a university. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:22]: When I think about transitioning into a new cultural context, which I've done a couple of times in the last couple of years myself, I always think about those things that caught me off guard that I didn't realize would be a cultural norm or cultural assumption or something I was carrying with me from my past that maybe I stepped in something else in the context that I'm currently living in. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how you've learned to navigate cultural difference, especially in the Canadian context where I think a lot of Americans tend to operate with a sense of hubris that the cultures are more aligned than they really are. So how have you figured out what to take with you from your American core and what to approach with that most humility and and kind of fix it when you have stepped in it? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:20:03]: That's such a great question. I think that is the most important transition as anyone considering, global opportunities or working outside of the United States. It's so easily to be immersed in the American way of doing things. And it's so easy to assume that this is the correct way. I spent my 1st year suspending all judgment, allowing my values to be challenged, but focused on asking myself the question, focused on being a critical thinker of the experience and just absorbing this experience. And it wasn't a foreign idea to me. I'd worked at Temple University in Philadelphia, the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, Auburn University in Alabama, the University of Southern California. And even in those environments, they were all US environments, but they were completely different environments. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:20:54]: An attempt to copy and paste anything from Auburn to USC was not gonna work. So I learned early in my US transitions from institution to institution to pay attention to the unique culture of the place that I'm sitting right now, like, be completely present. I think the biggest mistake we can make is to copy and paste or the worst phrase that I typically hear is when I was at Auburn, we used to do like that does not work. So completely embed yourself in your current institution and take the time. Sometimes it's a year to completely learn the culture and values and why things are done a certain way. In the end, you may disagree, you may continue to disagree with the path or it may confirm that this is the right path. And now I understand why we use this term or participate in this practice. You might disagree with it in the end, but it's hard to change when the community that you're trying to change does not believe you understand their cultural practice. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:21:59]: We have to build some social capital before we can jump directly into change management. And I think that's true moving from Colorado to California to Texas as it is moving from Los Angeles to Vancouver, British Columbia. So immerse yourself in the culture, understand what's going on, feel free to disagree in the end, but you can't disagree until you understand. So it was being a critical practitioner that has been most helpful for me. Give you an example of one thing that came up. I am in my US mindset, very linear in thinking about, let's solve this problem. So we'll come to the table. There's a student issue. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:22:40]: We're grappling with something, but everyone is talking around the something. So I'm sitting there listening, trying to figure out what problem are we trying to solve? What is the issue here? And after 30 or so minutes into the meeting, I grow so impatient that I just say, wait a minute. What are we talking about? What is the issue? I don't understand. What are we trying to solve? And then we kinda continue to have this talk around it ness, and it's sometimes an issue of culture or race. We have a large indigenous population and indigenous commitment here, issues of black student issues, religious and cultural issues. We have this merry-go-round for about an hour that used to frustrate me. And I realized after my 1st year that I needed to slow down. I was the one that was moving too fast. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:23:28]: Part of the process was the group coming to terms with finding the right language to get there. So my impatience with problem solving was my error, not the error of the group that I was sitting around trying to navigate this with. So in my 1st year, I realized that sometimes it's gonna take 3 meetings to get to the heart of the issue, and I needed to be patient with that because the journey was part of the problem solving, not pinpointing the issue and tackling it immediately. So that was one of the nuances that I found here. There's a lot of talk around an issue before we get to the meat of the issue. And that's been a valuable learning lesson for me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: Processing is part of the process. Yes. When you think about your space that you're currently occupying and the staff that you are responsible for leading and ultimately developing, what are you doing differently in the Canadian context than you might have done in the US context? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:24:24]: So one of the things that I have not been able to drag across the border, some of the higher ed language that we had been developing in the US since the 19 fifties sixties seventies as the profession was being born, up student outcomes, strategic planning, learning and assessment and evaluation and experiential learning, high impact practices, all of the things that we've gone to conferences to learn and adopt. Some of those things are unique, uniquely US. And And when you come across the border, some of that language changes. Those activities are still important, but the language of those activities have changed. So you won't find, at least at my institution, you won't find a lot of individuals who are classically trained in higher aid administration, meaning earning a master's degree in student affairs or a doctorate in college administration. They are well educated, great experiences. But I have degrees from chemistry and physics and math and business. And they're all over the place. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:25:23]: Very few people are student affairs practitioners as we know them in the U. S. So some of the language translation is different. And it's been helpful for me to learn this language. What's important here? Because after we talk it out for a while, then people will say, oh, I know what you mean. This is what you're trying to say. So it's been super helpful learning a new language, but it requires listening. It really requires listening and taking our time to get there. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:25:52]: I have found that our culture as an administration has been super receptive to thinking outside the box, creating new ideas because they're not boxed into Tinto's theory or Chickering's vectors or any of the other theories that we learned as young student affairs professionals that later on, when we go into another environment, those theories sometimes have boxed us in because those theories are largely out of date in many contexts. They have not evolved to the new cultures of our students. So being able to free myself from the boxes of student learning theories that we had adopted a long time ago in a different context has been helpful for me to have that learning experience because we're talking about the same things and the same outcomes. But I had to learn how to how to drop that language in those boxes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:41]: Well, Aynle, I'm gonna transition us over to our theme based questions for the season. And so I have, one question for you on the past, one on the present, and one in the future of student affairs. So starting in the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:26:59]: So our higher ed profession, I recall when it was very focused on career placement, career development. As time has moved on, I remember when we introduced student leadership development, where leadership was important and then we started to step away from leadership development because it was so positional and that was a distraction to those who said, I'm not a leader, but I wanna participate. We weren't teaching followership anymore. We weren't teaching good practice of being good teammates, working together. So we moved away from leadership development. And then we kind of completely focused on student learning, what are students learning inside and outside the classroom. And that had an incredible amount of value as we started to see both this learning happening in both places. But we remain challenged with how do we measure learning that's happening outside the classroom because so much of it is qualitative, not quantitative. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:27:55]: Student experiences were just as important. I do think we're seeing a revisit, a new world of student career development that is different than when we attended school in the eighties nineties. It was a very placement feel where employers came to campus to interview you. Now we're in a world where students are global employees. Students can work all over the world. Platforms like Zoom and artificial intelligence are platforms that we should be thinking about as students to help students make their career decisions and pursue their career journey. So now I think it's not just about career placement and career development, but it's about career exploration and identifying self and seeing where you wanna work as part of a global society. And we know students will graduate from universities and within their first five or so years, they will have 5 or 6 different jobs and employment opportunities. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:28:55]: Unlike the prior generation that we went into a single industry, and we know students are much more purpose driven about where they work today. They want to be a part of a company that they feel good about, that they feel this company is doing something better for the world. How do we help students explore that journey? Now I have students who arrive at the university who are looking for an internship immediately. They want that 1st summer to begin their career journey. Employers are using the internship as interview number 1. So the student who has spent 4 years with a particular company, number 1, knows more about that company than any place else, and that employer knows about them. So the career offer is easier at that point, but we have to start that journey earlier as a part of a journey and not make it a super stressful situation for a student who can't find that opportunity. But I think career exploration and identity development is coming back. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:29:57]: That's a practice that I think was in the past in a very career placement like way. And now we are entering this career journey phase. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:07]: Moving towards the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:30:12]: I think we're doing a much better job around issues of mental health and how we're supporting students navigate mental health care on campus. I remember the calls and the cries from more counselors on campus. The wait time was too long. Sometimes students were waiting 6 weeks for a counseling appointment, 8 weeks for a counseling appointment. I believe our counseling systems have become much more smarter. We now know how to triage critical situations, get the student with the urgent care needs in first. We have expanded our counseling portfolios to have not only counselors on the ground, but COVID taught us that we could also deliver mental health counseling via phone, via video, via Zoom. So now we have virtual platforms for counseling and companies that provide that virtual counselling. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:31:05]: I recall in the states, we were limited by which state we were in and our ability to use a counselor in another state, that counselor needed to be licensed in a particular state. Now, many of those licensure agreements are giving way to allow students at your university to have access to mental health counseling, whether it's in state or out of state. And since then, so many more young adults have graduated from universities, gone into counseling. So now we have a much more robust pool of mental health counselors available. I believe because of the demand, we're seeing more individuals go into counseling. So I am proud today that we at University of British Columbia have five paths that a student can receive mental health counseling support. That's on the ground, virtually via Zoom, by phone, we have embedded counselors into academic units and we have embedded counselors into residence halls. So right now, the wait time, if a student is willing to use the full menu is 72 hours, which is and a student who has urgent needs can be seen immediately. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:32:15]: So the thing that I'm proudest of is the work that universities have done to create a more robust student health and well-being infrastructure, specifically around mental health counseling services. And the stigma of it is being released. We can talk openly about everyone having a relationship with a counselor as a support mechanism, something that all students need, and it's not frowned upon as as it had been in the past. So I am excited about the world that we're living in. I have a 17 year old daughter that's getting ready to go to a university, and I like the place that we are right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:52]: And looking outwards, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing right now to thrive towards our future? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:32:58]: I think one of the most obvious answers around our future conversation is how do we leverage artificial intelligence? There's a robust conversation going on in the classroom about the implications of AI. Much of it is around how students might use AI to gain an advantage in the classroom. There's concern about AI being used as a tool to cheat on exams. I I think the academics will resolve that and pedagogy will adjust in order to it's like when the calculator came on, Bill. People were concerned, oh, students aren't gonna do math in their head anymore. Well, we realized that the calculator can be a teaching tool, an instructional tool. So how might we use AI as an instructional tool? But I think there's a goal of mine in artificial intelligence as we think about student affairs and student services. And the reason why I'm so excited about it, many of our operations operate on a 9 am to 5 pm schedule. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:33:55]: Okay. It might be 8 am to 5 pm, but that's not the student rhythm. Students usually aren't up at 8 am looking for mental health counseling services or academic advising or career advising that may start at noon, but it's definitely not over at 5 pm. So that student who it's midnight, they're concerned about something, they wanna talk to someone, they wanna go through a resume, they have a job interview the next day or a podcast interview, and they wanna think through some questions. What if we had a suite of services that were available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? And and it didn't have before we used to try to imagine how do we keep student affairs personnel available for hours beyond 5 PM. And now I think there's a world that we can use artificial intelligence to be more available around the clock. Not that it would replace humans, but it would be a supplement to the work that we're doing on the ground. And then after 5 or 6 PM, we switch into a more virtual AI mode that still helps students answer critical questions. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:35:00]: I remember we were trying to create avatars that would answer questions and engage with students. And the technology was clumsy back then. And this is 5 to 7 years ago when we were experimenting with this at USC. I think artificial intelligence right now can allow us to create much more smarter interfaces with students And just imagine the possibilities. I'm talking academic advising, career advising, advice on mental health counseling, advice on interview preparation, everything that we do in student affairs, I think there's an AI opportunity that we should explore and vigorously vigorously consider. I don't think it will replace humans, but I think it will be a great supplement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:44]: And if you're listening to essay voices for the first time today, I strongly encourage you to go back a couple of weeks ago and listen to the episode we did with doctor Daniel Weisglass all about AI in higher education. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:00]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. As we approach the end of the year, there's no better time to reflect on your department's achievements and plan for continuous improvement. A program review collaborative review can provide the external insights needed to refine your strategies and strengthen your programs. The PRC is a collaborative effort between NASPA, the Association of Colleges and Universities Housing Officers International, or ACUO AI, the Association of College Unions International, ACUI, and NRSA, Leaders in Collegiate Recreation. This partnership is designed to provide best practice frameworks and expert guidance for departmental evaluations. If this kind of evaluation sounds like something that would really help your office, I encourage you to check it out for yourself. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:52]: You can go to program review collaborative dot org to find out more. The new issue of the Journal of College and Character has just released. Volume 25 issue 4 just came out. And in this journal, you're gonna be finding a ton of different articles. Articles such as from Kent State to Black Lives Matter, student affairs relationship with campus activism to developing character through critical reflection or fraternities and sororities as civil society organizations, past roles, present actions and future possibilities. All of these articles and more can be found on the NASPA website. When you go to the NASPA website, they're easy to find. All you do is go to NASPA.org, go under publications, and you can see all the journals right there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:39]: The 2025 NASPA annual conference schedule has been released. You can take a look at all of the things happening at the upcoming NASPA 25 conference in March to be able to see all the different programs that are going to be there and start putting together a schedule for yourself. If you're planning to attend the NASPA annual conference today, now is a great time to start planning your schedule out so you know all of the different programs that you may want to attend. I mentioned earlier this fall that the new class of pillars of the profession have been named. And now is a great time before the end of the year. If you have an interest in wanting to make a donation to honor one of the 2025 Pillars of the Profession, you can do so by going to the NASPA Foundation website to be able to learn more about all of our 2025 Pillar of the Profession class. And you can make a donation of any amount to support 1, 2, or all of them. I highly encourage you to honor these individuals, putting it by putting in a donation to be able to support them. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:45]: But also by doing that, you're also supporting the foundation, which provides scholarships and more to support the work of NASPA. Talking about the annual conference, one other conference that's coming up. If you can't go to the annual in person conference, make sure to set aside April 9th through 11th for the 2025 Virtual Conference. The 2025 Virtual Conference is a 3 day interactive educational experience for you as student affairs professionals or anyone else that is a partner to higher education that will engage you in high quality content centered around individual and team growth. There will be multiple educational sessions, including extended learning workshops that will allow for you and your teams to participate in personal and professional development throughout the live event and on demand. The nice thing is that by registering for this conference, all of the sessions are available on demand for 1 year. So even if you watch them once and you want to come back and watch them again, you have the opportunity to do just that. You can find out more on the learning portal of the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:55]: You can go to learning.naspa.org and then go to the virtual conference for more information. But while you're there, make sure to check out all of the learning opportunities that are available to you as a NASPA member. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:22]: Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:33]: Chris, it's always a pleasure to hear from you on what's going on in and around NASPA. And Ainsley, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:46]: Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:46]: Okay. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:51]: Bring them out Bring them Out by TI. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:53]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:41:56]: I wanted to be a professional athlete. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:01]: Barack Obama. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:02]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:04]: The next act, realigning your mindset, purpose, and career by Jason Pena and Amy Hecht. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:11]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:13]: Game of Thrones. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:15]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:19]: Pardon the interruption. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:20]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:24]: Let me give a shout out to I just mentioned them, Jason Pena and Amy Heck. I believe they put out a great publication called the next act realigned in your mindset, purpose, and career. And it's all about the next step for college administrators like us. So I think this is gonna be an exciting read, and I wanna encourage everyone to go out and check it out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:43]: Ainsley, thank you so much for teaching us today about what's going on in the UBC context and a little bit of the Canadian higher education context. If anyone would like to learn from you after the show airs, how can they find you? Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:42:54]: Please email me atainsley.carry@ubc.ca. That's a ins ley.carrycary@ubc.ca. And you can also hit me up on LinkedIn. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:10]: Ainsley, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Ainsley Carry [00:43:13]: Thank you, Jill, for having me. It was such a pleasure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:20]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:58]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis . Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Celebrating Thanksgiving: Honoring Indigenous Lands and Voices in Higher Ed 3:46

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As we reach the mid-season break of NASPA 's SA Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton , our devoted host, takes a moment to reflect on the beautiful journey so far. Highlighting the incredible range of professionals, from undergraduate students to distinguished pillars in the field, Dr. Creighton appreciates every guest who has shared their wisdom and stories on the show. Indigenous Awareness During Thanksgiving In alignment with the American Thanksgiving holiday, Dr. Creighton emphasizes the significance of acknowledging the indigenous history of the lands we inhabit. By using resources like Native Land (native-land.ca), the podcast encourages higher education professionals to build a deeper understanding and empathy for indigenous communities. This approach aims to foster a more inclusive environment for students, faculty, and staff. Ongoing Conversations and Future Episodes Even as the podcast takes a brief hiatus, listeners can look forward to more enriching conversations slated for the upcoming weeks. As Dr. Creighton and her team prepare for the next leg of the season, they remain committed to exploring the past, present, and future of student affairs. Listener Engagement Dr. Creighton closes the episode by expressing gratitude to the podcast’s loyal listeners and encourages them to share feedback and suggestions for future topics and guests. She reminds everyone that their engagement helps broaden the show's reach within the academic community. Catch more insightful episodes of SA Voices from the Field after the Thanksgiving break, as we continue to delve into the dynamic world of student affairs.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Supporting Student Spiritual Development and Religious Diversity on Campus 37:18

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On the latest episode of NASPA's Victors in Grad School podcast, host Dr. Jill Creighton engages with Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew and Dr. Renee Bolling to shed light on the often-overlooked aspects of religious and spiritual diversity on college campuses. This episode delves deep into how institutions can create more inclusive environments that respect and celebrate diverse spiritual identities. Their insights provide valuable guidance for educational administrators and student affairs professionals aiming to foster spiritual inclusivity. Student Spiritual Needs and Inclusivity Dr. Renee Bolling begins by emphasizing the fundamental role that spiritual support and expression play in students' lives. College students value having access to prayer spaces, meditation rooms, and dietary options tailored to their religious needs, signaling to them that the campus respects and acknowledges their faith. The presence of these facilities does more than meet basic needs; it profoundly impacts students' perceptions of inclusivity and belonging. Impact of Campus Climate on Religious Diversity The discussion then shifts to the broader implications of campus climate on perceptions of religious diversity. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew notes that events such as protests regarding geopolitical issues, like the Israel-Palestine conflict, can heavily influence students' perceptions of how their religious identities are valued on campus. He underlines the critical need for institutions to create environments that facilitate open, respectful dialogue around these complex issues. Demographic Shifts and Personal Spirituality A notable trend highlighted in the conversation is the increasing movement among students away from organized religion towards personal spirituality or secular identities. This shift challenges campuses to rethink how they provide spiritual support. Interestingly, their college experiences can either reinforce or reshape their spiritual commitments, suggesting that campus environments have a significant role in students' spiritual development. The Role of Student Affairs Professionals Student affairs professionals are at the forefront of fostering spiritual inclusivity. As Dr. Bolling points out, more public universities are creating religious and spiritual life offices, dedicated to supporting diverse religious expressions. These professionals are tasked with not only ensuring students' spiritual needs are met but also challenging them intellectually and promoting bridge-building activities. Advancements and Challenges in Spiritual Inclusivity The episode also highlights promising practices, such as providing transportation to spiritual or prayer spaces and enhancing bias reporting systems. However, both Dr. Bolling and Dr. Mayhew stress the ongoing training gap; fewer than 30% of staff in student affairs have formal training in managing religious diversity. They advocate for more comprehensive training programs to equip educators and student affairs professionals to handle spiritual diversity tensions effectively. Conclusion: Moving Forward with INSPIRES The INSPIRES index, discussed extensively in the episode, represents a significant advancement in assessing and improving campus climates for religious and spiritual identity inclusivity. Funded by the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, INSPIRES provides institutions with a scorecard and actionable recommendations across seven domains, aiding in the creation of more inclusive campuses. Institutions interested in participating in the INSPIRES survey can access the index website, with the survey closing on December 16. In summary, this episode of SA Voices From the Field offers a comprehensive look at the multifaceted role of spiritual inclusivity in higher education. As colleges continue to evolve, ensuring that all students feel seen, heard, and respected in their spiritual identities remains a critical aspect of their mission. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm Doctor. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices From the Field, it's my pleasure to welcome 2 scholars from the Ohio State University. They're gonna be talking about the work they're doing with the INSPIRES index, which is an index that focuses on religious and spiritual identity. Our first guest is doctor Renee Bolling. Doctor Bolling is WorldView Research Director of the College Impact Labs Interfaith Projects at The Ohio State University and has over 20 years shaping the student experience in US and international p 20 education administration. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She chairs the NASPA Spirituality and Religion in Higher Education Knowledge Community, serves on the editorial board of the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, and mentors international EDD students through an HBCU. Her research interests include comparative international education, critical internationalization, educational leadership, global learning, and worldview diversity, all topics related to her dissertation, which received the best practices in research and scholarship award from the International Education Knowledge Community. Renee earned her PhD from OSU's Higher Education Education Student Affairs Program, a postgraduate certificate in religious studies and education from Harvard, an MA in counseling and human development from Walsh University, and a BA in sociology from the University of Akron. Our second guest is doctor Matthew j Mayhew. Doctor Mayhew is the William Ray and Marie Addison Fletcher Professor of Educational Administration. His research is focused on how collegiate conditions, educational practices, and student experiences influence learning and democratic outcomes, including moral reasoning, pluralism, productive exchange across worldview differences, and innovation. To support the study of college and its impact on student development and learning, he's been awarded more than $20,000,000 in funding from sources, including but not limited to the United States Department of Education, the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation, the Merrifield Family Trust, and the National Science Foundation. He's published more than 60 peer reviewed articles and journals as well as how college affects students volume 3. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:15]: He received his doctorate from the University of Michigan. Welcome to SA Voices, Renee and Matt. Hello. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:02:21]: Hi. How are you? Thanks for having us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:23]: Really looking forward to talking to you both today about all of the work you're doing with the INSPIRES index. But before we jump into the research and how you're contributing right now to the the present and the future of student affairs, we always love to get to know our guests by asking you kind of how you've gotten to your current seat. So, Renee, let's start with you. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:02:41]: Fantastic. Well, I'm really happy to be here with you today and everyone listening in. I started off in higher education student affairs and residence life like many of us, and then I wound my way into, k twelve counseling and student support, and ended up serving overseas in an international school. That got me more and more interested in this facet of diversity, religious, secular, and spiritual, or also known as worldview diversity. And so some questions from practice actually drove me back to a higher ed student affairs doctoral program where I met doctor Mayhew and began working on the INSPIRES index and some other projects. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:14]: And, Matt, how about you? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:03:15]: Wow. That was really impressive, Renee, I have to say. That was efficient and well done. I can go on for hours here, but I'll just say that I have a history with data and numbers and a history in student affairs. And those histories align with the journey I had through college. So I started at College of the Holy Cross for my 1st year, transferred to Wheaton College, then to Brandeis University, and then to the University of Michigan where I received my doctorate. And along the way, of course, those schools do identify differentially by way of RSSI or religious, spiritual, and secular ways of thinking about schools and who they serve. And so from those kinds of context and those experiences, I kinda came into the idea that college and university life should prepare students to have productive dialogue across all walks of life, including those we typically call religious. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:04:05]: And so I've practiced that in in not only my professorship, but also a long way. I was a resident director of a small college called Fisher College, Downtown Boston, and also I was the director of student life assessment at University of North Carolina at Wilmington. So my heart is in student affairs. I actually had a job in student affairs before becoming a professor of student affairs. And so all of those kinds of experiences blend together to inform my work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:30]: I really enjoy the smallness of our profession sometimes. And just full disclosure for our audience, Renee and I have known each other for couple years now having met in that international education space. And Matt and I just met in the pre show chatter today, but we are connected to similar people within the profession. So I'm just gonna give a brief shout out to Ashley Staples, who I used to work with at NYU, who is I know a mentee of Matt's. So we're all interlaced in student affairs usually. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:04:55]: Absolutely. Hello. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:57]: And you all are at Ohio State or as an Oregon State alum myself, I I always have to give you all a little bit of the business for being the other OSU, but I'm sure that's not not a thing you all hear a lot. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:05:10]: Well, it's funny. No. We do, actually, because Oklahoma State also tends to have the same sort of introductory jokes and remarks. But remember, we are at the Ohio State. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:19]: So that might just irritate us a little bit. So That came out of here. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:05:24]: Well and to be specific, we're at the College Impact Lab in the College of Education and Human Ecology at the Ohio State University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:31]: Well, the work that you all are doing with the INSPIRES index, I thought fit in really nicely with our theme, the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs, particularly with the present and the future. INSPIRES is an acronym, so I'm hoping you can start with telling us what it stands for and kind of how you got here. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:05:47]: It stands for the interfaith spiritual, religious, and secular campus climate index, INSPIRES for short, and it's really, an outgrowth of past research. It's a very much a research based assessment tool based on past ideals in research, which I I think doctor Mayhew can tell us more about in a moment. But its intention is really to provide benchmarking to institutions that they can use to improve practice for diverse RSSIs, and also to provide families, students, and the public with a public face facing tool that they can use for college choice to understand how different campuses are responding to and helping to support different students in this diversity. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:06:25]: That's exactly right. And thank you, Renee, for saying that. So I turned it over to Renee because I couldn't remember because I'm getting old. And my students call it seasoning, but my daughter calls it balding. I couldn't remember actually what INSPIRE stood, but I can give you some of the background and context, and that is Alyssa Rockenbach from North Carolina State, what used to be called Interfaith Youth Corps, but is now called Interfaith America. And I kind of started this partnership a long time ago to try to look at what religious and worldview identities, how they developed during college. And we've surveyed over thousands and thousands of students over hundreds of schools and talked to faculty and staff along the way. And we learned a lot. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:07:02]: And, basically, what the INSPIRES index does is it takes information from all of that research and and really distills it into one inventory so that we can say that campus x is a welcoming environment for Jewish students. Campus x might have some issues with being welcoming for Muslim students. And when we say that, it's not just theoretical. We've actually asked Jewish students and Muslim students, what makes you feel more welcome on campus? And then we turned those ideas into items on the inventory. So everything on the inventory comes from the voices of the very people we're trying to help. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: What are some of the things that you're hearing are important for students who come from spiritual backgrounds, as they're looking at college choice? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:07:49]: The number one thing I would say that kinda cuts across all the groups, and this surprises people a lot of times is, the idea of space for support and spiritual expression. So all students, even evangelical students and students who I don't have identify with any particular religion or non religious students, When they walk onto campus and they see that a campus provides prayer spaces for Muslim students that think, wow, this campus is welcoming toward all religious identities, even my own. And that came up over and over and over again with regard to how students were making meaning of what is welcoming for them. There are welcoming issues and factors for each group specifically. As an example, for Jewish students, having, kosher meals provided in every dining facility on campus is really important. Some institutions have them, but they're in different buildings across campus. And so, when Jewish students wanna have a meal with their friends and they don't wanna have to schlep across campus to friends, sometimes that compromises whether the the Jewish students can eat with their friends or not. And so that is something that Jewish students feel is very important for making them feel welcome is this idea that there are kosher meals at all dining facilities across campus. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:09:02]: And we have examples of each of those kinds of things for each group. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:05]: Let's dig into that a little bit. I think it's it's quite fascinating to hear that the signal for inclusion may not even be related to my own identities, but whether or not the university or the college is is kind of outlying where inclusion happens for someone who might not identify like me. What do you make of that? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:09:23]: Well, we do see it over and over again. For example, one of the things that we've noticed is that students are paying attention when another student is experiencing a negative incident on campus. They're watching and seeing how it's handled. They're watching to see how faculty respond. They're picking up on how they perceive other groups as being welcome or not, and that informs their own experience of the campus climate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:46]: You all have been doing this work long before the campus protests began to erupt regarding Israel and Palestine across the last year. How are you seeing that work impacted or affected or the the way that students are responding to the index be affected by the current climate? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:10:02]: It's a great question. We will have some data in about 2 weeks. You have to invite us back. We actually have a campus, a module as part of the INSPIRES index that asked campuses how they managed the campus protests over the course of the last year. And we asked very specific questions of campuses, and those questions came from experts in the Jewish faith and Muslim faith as well as psychometricians and folks on the ground. So student affairs officers who were dealing with the crisis on a day to day basis, we vetted the survey to make sure, oh, is this really tapping into the dimensions that you found to be important on campus? I think there's a lot to talk about here, but one of the things I'd like to talk about when this comes up is, you know, how religious diversity might differ from other forms of diversity. And because folks for a long time haven't thought about that really or or religion's been sort of stiff armed as something that is not as central to be an inclusion as other forms of Folks haven't really been readied for thinking about religion differently. So let me give you an example of that. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:11:10]: There's a logic of choice that oftentimes is is associated with religion that's not associated with, say, other forms of diversity. And so there are in the western way we think about religion, especially, a lot of the students that come to campus think that religion is a choice. On Tuesday, you can be atheist, and on Wednesday, you could be an evangelical. And because of that choice that people have and how they identify, then that kind of makes its way into diversity conversations as a distinctive, way of thinking about how do we then inform practice, inform policies on campus when choice might be something that students are thinking about. Choice is not necessarily something some a lot of folks think about, say, in the context of race, in the context of GLBTQIA plus issues, in the context of those kinds of things. But with religion, especially from the western perspective, choice is something that's entertained. We have other logics too like coercion. That's a logic also that might be very specific to religion. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:12:10]: How does an authentic conversation between people of different faiths or non faith based tradition, when does that evolve or devolve depending on whom you ask into a coercive conversation where somebody's trying to convert me rather than just have an authentic conversation about lived experiences? So those are the kinds of nuances that if we hadn't talked about religion, we need to start talking about it much more readily in order to really understand where the motivations for some of the protesting comes from and the policy set to manage the protest. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:41]: Let's back up for a second here, and I'd like to get into some of the demographics of the average American college campus. I think you're absolutely accurate in saying that the average student affairs practitioner maybe isn't as knowledgeable in the DEI spaces around religion as we might be around racial identity or ability or sexual orientation, etcetera. So who are our students right now on the average American campus? How are they identifying? And what do we know on kind of that metadata perspective? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:13:09]: I think that it's very different, Jill, based on the college that you're asking about. So when we think about things like Christian colleges or evangelical schools, what the average, if you will, look or makeup of that campus, it's gonna be very different than students may be at a public institution, and that's gonna look very different than students may be at a private institution, and that's gonna look very different than students may be at a private nonsectarian institution. And so the way we think about context really does inform the answer to that question. What we do know just in general is that over the college experience, there are more students who are leaving formalized religion and identifying rather as spiritual and non religious, and that's kind of growing over time. We've also learned though that there are students, who go into college with a certain faith based background and they actually meet other folks, and they discuss ideas and life choices and purpose and calling with those folks. And it oftentimes strengthens their commitment to their faith because the students are able to make their faith their own. And so it's very difficult to, like, hone in on specific statistics because the context differs so much. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:14:15]: That's true. And one of the things that we've done with INSPIRE is we've looked across institutional type. So comparing institutions to like institutions, whether those are private, public, have a religious affiliation, or a particular type of religious affiliation, trying to compare apples to apples in that sense so that when they're benchmarked, they're seeing how other institutions like them are doing serving their populations. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:38]: What is the role of student affairs today in supporting students' spiritual identity, spiritual growth, or spiritual connection? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:14:46]: Well, this could take hours, and I love it. So somebody recently just asked me to to to talk about this. And there are really a couple of things and I'll I'll just bring up the the first two that come to mind. Students are really able to differentiate between relationships that they find harmful, that they find coercive, and that they find challenging and provocative. And so the key for student affairs practitioners is in whatever context they are in, whether they're putting on a program or an activity, they need to design an environment where students are challenged, but students are not harmed by what's going on in that space. And the only way to do that is for the educator really to shore up their own knowledge about power in the space, their own knowledge about white Christian nationalism, and how that's kind of forced its way into the academy, insidious and sometimes overt ways, but also being able to wrestle with their own RSSI identity, if you will. Try to make meaning of that so that they can provide kind of a measurable vulnerability as an introduction into the context and space. That's one thing I would say needs to happen. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:15:50]: The other, and this is critically important, this is really hard, is for the activities and the programs themselves to be bridge building. So it can't be that you just have an activity over here for evangelicals and you happen to invite atheists to the activity for evangelicals and hope magic happens. There has to be some intentional bridge building around the program or activity where conversations enable people to talk about their lived experiences in ways that are really challenging, but supported by the folks who are actually in the space running it. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:16:22]: And this gets to something that you were you were sharing and asking about earlier, which is that the training that we have in student affairs around this. We know from INSPIREs that from our participating campuses, the highest area of folks who have training in, religious diversity in that background is in residence life and mental health counselors, and that's at around 30% having that training. In other areas, academic advising, health center and wellness staff, career counselors, we're looking at between 6 10% having training in this area. So this is a very large need in our in our profession. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:55]: And how do we balance all of the need to be educated and informed in this situation with what some people would say might be butting up against the values of a public institution? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:17:04]: Well, I think first of all, we need to understand that even though there's a a general understanding or at least access to language about separation between church and state, folks need to understand what that actually means. What that actually doesn't mean is that you can't talk about religion on campus. You could talk about religion all you want on campus and whatever space you want. Separation of church and state has nothing to do with what's discussed on campus. That's the first thing. The second thing that's really important to understand is if we don't talk about religion in spaces where students want to talk about religion, then how in the world are we educating the whole student? How are we really getting at their lived experiences if we're saying, oh, well, 80% of your lived experiences we'll talk about, but the 20% having to do with religion, that's not welcome here. It doesn't make sense. And so I think we have to really start to think holistically about how we offer the educations we do offer at colleges and universities. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:18:01]: There's also a distinction between devotional teaching about a tradition or a worldview and academic or teaching about that religious, secular, or spiritual worldview and engaging and having authentic encounters with difference. And that's what we're talking about here is being equipped to have those encounters in ways that are productive, in ways that build a a sense of pluralism where everyone is welcome, and these aren't conversations that we're afraid to have, but that we're empowered to have in ways that are respectful and respect the dignity of all students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:32]: Let's talk about what that training can look like for student affairs practitioners. What is it that institutions are doing well right now that leads them to these inclusive spaces? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:18:42]: More and more institutions are starting to have multi faith spaces and spaces for religious identities to feel a sense of safety, have a safe space that they can go and express their religious identity. I think where we need to work a little bit more is on these brave spaces and building up faculty and staff training to be able to, facilitate some of these encounters. Another area that we are doing somewhat well in, as was touched on earlier, was accommodations for different religious and spiritual identities to be able to access food. We know that food insecurity is an issue across different groups on campus, but we could be doing better, like Doctor. Mayhew said, in making sure that this isn't just one place on campus, but that it's throughout our dining and residential facilities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:23]: That food element is so critical. I know last year we had Ramadan fasting happening during a lot of people's finals weeks, which deeply impacts the students' ability to be successful. We've also had fasting for other holidays happening in conjunction with all sorts of other things that could impact student performance in the classroom. So I think that's one way to to fundamentally connect where the rubber meets the road really in terms of inclusion. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:19:46]: One thing that we learned from surveying presidents after the incidents of October 7th was that there are not enough, religious, secular, and spiritual or interfaith councils on campuses where that line of communication is opened up between the university, between student affairs professionals, and between both students who represent different religious identities and community members and community leaders who also represent them. And that's an area for growth for the profession, and it's also an area that presidents of universities have expressed interest in. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:20:16]: Right. I was just gonna say that was so eloquently put, Renee. Thank you. But I was gonna invite some of my colleagues across the country. And for those of you who are graduates of student affairs programs, please call or get in touch with the people who are still on campus teaching the next generation of of practitioner. A lot of the programs that we've seen have shored up the curriculum in ways that spiritual, religious, and secular diversity doesn't even make it into courses on, student development and learning anymore. It used to be we had a full year at Ohio State of that course, and we've actually had to cut back because students wanted other requirements. And in cutting back, sometimes we miss the whole conversation because there's just not enough space in the classroom to talk about it. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:20:57]: And so I think that that's really important if we do value it and if students are living it, then we need to have some formal training in how to think about RSSI work while students are getting their master's degrees and then moving on into the profession. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:21:11]: I think one opportunity for us is in thinking about students' multidimensional identities and even their intersectionality. What we know is that not everywhere views their religious, secular, or spiritual identity as a choice. There are definitely religious cultures, a religious, and spiritual communities of belonging that are more about praxis or about community than they are even about belief. And so I think that's an area to think about where this crossover is between different types of diversity. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:37]: Let's go back to the index. You've worked with dozens and dozens of institutions. We can see them all on the website. If I'm an institution that is interested in becoming part of the index process, what am I going to receive as an outcome? What what is involved with my students? What information should I be looking forward to? What can I change of my practice based on the dataset I might get back? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:21:58]: Well, let me provide a context and then I'll head it over. I'll kick it over to Renee really quickly. So with generous funding from the Arthur Defining Davis Foundations, we've been able to provide this index for free for institutions. It's also not a survey of students. It's one inventory that somebody or a group of somebodies takes on behalf of their institution that then comes back to us and we analyze. And analysis will give them some insight. We do provide specific reporting back to the institutions to give them insight on how they're doing compared to students like that or or other institutions like them. Excuse me. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:22:32]: And so that is kind of what the institutions get. And then what the what the public gets, if the institution allows their data to go public, you know, folks are able to see kind of how they're doing in different spaces. And that's really helpful, not only in the spirit of transparency, which we hope most institutions have, but also just giving caregivers and the students the information they need when they're making college decisions. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:22:54]: The 2 kind of feedback mechanisms for university are a scorecard that is produced where they receive a star rating on 7 different areas or domains, and then they also receive a report that gives recommendations based on those star ratings. The 7 domains are religious accommodations, space for support and expression, structural diversity, institutional behavior, efforts to reduce negative engagement, and extracurricular engagement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:20]: The most important thing I think you said is that it's free for institutions right now due to grant funding. It's very rare that we get rich assessment tools that we don't have to invest in. Sounds like there's a time investment, but not necessarily a monetary one right now. So if I'm an institution and this is speaking to me or maybe I'm I'm listening, I'm a VPSA and I think we need to do this, How can we make that happen? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:23:39]: Well, I'd love to direct you to our INSPIRE's index website, which is very simply inspiresindex.org. And we also have QR code access and other such things that we can share. But right now, there is a live link direct to begin the survey open through December 16th, and we're welcoming new campuses to join in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:57]: Is there anything else you want student affairs voices from the field listeners to know about this important work that you're doing with religious identity and spiritual interfaith identity on college campuses? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:24:07]: Well, there's a ton more, and I wish we had hours to talk about this because this is our life work. I will say with regard to the index, only because Gillette comes up so often. Even though the press and other people ask us to rank institutions like who's doing the best at what, we don't do that. It violates the whole spirit of what inspires us all about. So we might have a couple of institutions that we say these institutions collectively are doing a pretty good job at x or y or z, but we're never gonna say this institution ranks 1, you rank 2, you rank 3. It just violates the whole thing. And I think that's really important for folks who are making decisions about participation, know, that we are never going to allow that to happen. And so I think that's really important because in the spirit of what we're trying to do here, which is bring people together through thinking, strategically as well as thoughtfully about religious, spiritual, and secular diversity, it's just not it's not aligned with any of the values that we carry forward. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:00]: Without naming an institution then, can you identify some of the practices that are looking really promising in this area that are happening on campuses right now? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:25:08]: Oh, sure. I think, transportation is a big one. So when folks need to go to different places to pray or to have reflection time or different spaces on campus, oftentimes that they need to practice whatever they wanna practice, a lot of institutions are providing free transportation to those spaces because there's not necessarily gonna be a prayer space set in every residence hall, for example. That's a very promising practice that we see folks are engaging right now. Another promising practice is folks are really starting to take on the idea of bias reporting in this space and how to close the loop. So oftentimes, people will will report something or students will report that something happened, and then they feel like it goes into an echo chamber, and they never really get information on what actually happened with their complaint. And so we do have institutions that are really being very strategic about closing that loop a bit to ensure that everybody knows that this is a safe place, and there will be responsiveness when these issues come up. There's a lot of others as well, but those are the ones that I've recently been speaking about at least, and there's more for sure. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:26:12]: If I may, I think there's also some things on more of a macro structural level that we're starting to see. It used to be that you saw religious and spiritual life offices more at private campuses, and we're beginning to see more of them at public universities, even flagship universities. And that's exciting to see that commitment to equity across different types of religious expression and diversity as something that is protected under our amendment rights, but also something that can be supportive of students in their diversity. So that's exciting to see. We know already that that there's chaplaincy available at public institutions in their medical schools. It's just not nearly as readily available on the student facing side for undergraduate and graduate students. So I think there's a lot of opportunity here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]: I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme questions for the season. And again, we're focusing on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna ask you one question from each era. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:27:15]: I think a focus on holistic learning and holistic student development requires us to pay attention to how students are doing spiritually and their spiritual diversity. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:27:24]: I think the whole idea that religion is something that we shouldn't bring up or that we shouldn't actually be intentional about should be abandoned. Obviously, I think that there's a lot of room in the way we think about providing services and activities to students, especially the whole student, like Renee said, for us to strategically think about how to put these programs together in ways that are actually bringing folks together and healing communities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:46]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:27:51]: Well, I think student affairs is doing a really good job right now at trying to provide places for students who might be experiencing some sort of struggle in their journey in college, providing them a place to struggle, a place to be free about talking about those struggles, a place to be free about thinking about new ideas, and whether that is in the residence halls with their, residence life staff. As Renee said, a lot of the institutions are training their staff across different functional areas. So we do know the word is getting out. So wherever students decide to have those struggles, there's some shining hope that people across functional areas are actually being trained to talk about these issues with students. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:28:31]: I think in the present, we're seeing a good amount of conflict in our world that it reaches our campuses at times, and that's to be expected. I think that some of the work that we're doing and sharing about can provide some tools to campuses to better address when these issues arise on their campus so that the first time they're building building relationships and bridges isn't after something happens, but more proactively before things happen. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:56]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards the future? Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:29:01]: There's so many things I wanna say that I'm trying to distill it down into one area here. I think that for the future, higher education programs especially need to take on the challenge of training students on how to effectively manage any sort of or tension on campus due to religious and spiritual and secular diversity. I think that that's a challenge. I don't know if there's a lot of people out there who know how to train the trainers or even professors who know how to train the future generations. And so thinking about that is really, really challenging, but I think it's gonna become more and more important as the world shrinks due to technology. And like Renee said, as things are starting to lean into college campuses from, from what's happening overseas, religion's just gonna become more and more important as something to think about. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:29:44]: I'm going to piggyback off of that with my answer. I think this connection between religious, secular, and spiritual or worldview identity and culture, ethnicity, language, and class, I think exploring those connections is gonna continue to be important rather than thinking about diversity in kind of isolated spaces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:08]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. Doctor Janai Chandler has joined the, research and Policy Institute for NASPA as the new vice president for research and policy. With over 17 years experience as a higher education practitioner, researcher, and policy advocate, she aims to equip NASPA members and student affairs professionals with valuable research and policy tools to enhance student and staff success. Doctor. Chandler is particularly eager to engage with the 2024 top issues and hear from you about how to best support your work. She's a proud graduate of the HESA doctoral program at Florida State University, where she worked in advising and academic affairs. There's a brand new book in the NASPA bookstore entitled The Next Act, Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose and Career. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:02]: The Next Act Realigning Your Mindset, Purpose and Career explores diverse career development opportunities for student affairs professionals. The book discusses broadly how professionals can navigate their career paths within and beyond higher education, encouraging adaptability and personal growth. Through real life narratives, the authors offer practical advice on assessing and aligning one's career with personal passions and evolving professional goals. They also challenge traditional views on career advancement, emphasizing the importance of finding fulfillment and purpose in work. The chapters examine a wide range of career transitions from advancing within student affairs to moving into consulting, faculty roles, or even PK-twelve education. By reading this book, you will gain valuable insights on how to adapt to the ever evolving higher education landscape while discovering new opportunities for leadership and success. Whether you're considering a career shift or seeking to advance your current role, this book offers a wealth of guidance on finding purpose and achieving long term career satisfaction. Speaking of the 2024 top issues in student affairs, this annual survey completed by senior leaders in student affairs offers you a snapshot of the most important issues impacting institutions in 2024. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:19]: NASPA recently released the top ten issues in 2024, some of which include issues in regard to health, safety and well-being, administration and governance, assessment and evaluation and more. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website under Reports and Briefs, which can be found on the NASPA website under publications and then reports. You will find the full list of the top ten key areas, which I've mentioned to you already, and the specific issues in those areas that chief student affairs officers have listed as important for our profession. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:49]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:19]: Chris, thank you as always for for providing us an informative NASPA world segment. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And we have now reached our lightning round, Renee and Matt. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:35]: Let's go. Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:42]: Small town girl. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:43]: We will rock you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]: 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:47]: Somebody who traveled a lot. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:48]: Wanted to be my dad. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:52]: Dr. Eleanor Nicholson. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:34:53]: Dr. Ernie Pasquarello. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:54]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:34:57]: I'll say the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:00]: How College Affects Students, volume 3. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:02]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:05]: I'm a huge Outlander fan. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:06]: The Bear. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:07]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:10]: I'd have to say this one. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:12]: I'm not a big podcast person. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:13]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:17]: I'd love to give a professional shout out to the entire College Impact Lab or COIL Lab team at OSU, the brains and the brawn behind the INSPIRES index. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:35:26]: I would like to give a shout out to all of the funders who've participated in this and all of the institutions that have partnered with us. There's been a lot of institutions with us along the way and they stay with us and we do see it as a partnership. So thank you all for your continued, continued partnerships. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:40]: It's been so wonderful to learn from both of you about the important work that you're doing on RSSI on college campuses and the information that you're putting out for all of us so we can continue to learn, improve our practices. If I would like to get a hold of you after the show, how can I find you? Dr. Renee Bolling [00:35:55]: If you reach us at the inspiresindex.org website, you'll be able to find contact to our team, and we're happy to be in touch with you. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:36:03]: And my email at work, it's publicmayhue.65@osu.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:08]: And, Renee and Matt, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today. Dr. Matthew J. Mayhew [00:36:12]: Thank you, Jill. This was great. I appreciate you. Dr. Renee Bolling [00:36:14]: Happy to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:20]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Duane Bedell Discusses Leadership and Mentorship in Tribal Colleges 33:44

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This week on NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast Dr. Jill Creighton sat down with Duane Bedell , President of Bay Mills Community College (BMCC) , to delve into the vital role the college plays in supporting student success and cultural preservation within tribal communities. From leadership advice to the integration of Ojibwe culture into educational frameworks, Bedell shared his path and vision for BMCC, emphasizing the college's motto of fostering personal and professional growth among its students. Bay Mills Community College: A Foundation for Success Duane Bedell underscores BMCC's mission to empower students to pursue further education or establish themselves in the workforce. At BMCC, mentorship and personalized guidance are integral to the student experience. Bedell highlights how the institution offers a supportive environment that helps students build confidence and identify their paths, whether it be continuing their education or entering their chosen careers. Encouraging Advanced Education and Leadership A passionate advocate for higher education, Bedell encourages students and staff at BMCC to aspire toward advanced degrees like PhDs and EdDs. He shares his own journey, starting as an adjunct faculty member in 2000 and progressing to the role of president in 2020, a journey marked by mentorship and dedication. His leadership advice is practical yet profound: take calculated risks, prepare for sacrifices, maintain an open mind, and always value team feedback. For Bedell, balancing professional responsibilities with personal life is key, and he promotes a healthy work-life balance among his team members by setting boundaries and prioritizing personal time. Integrating Ojibwe Culture into Education One of BMCC's unique aspects is its commitment to integrating Ojibwe culture into every course and aspect of campus life. Bedell emphasizes the importance of cultural sensitivity and understanding within educational institutions, particularly those serving tribal communities. Through partnerships with various tribes across the U.S. and innovative teaching strategies, BMCC ensures that students are deeply connected to their heritage and traditions. This holistic approach not only preserves cultural knowledge but also enriches the educational experience, making it more relevant and engaging for students. Supporting Student Transfers and Success Bedell's doctoral research focuses on the alarming success rates of tribal students as they transition from tribal colleges to mainstream institutions. Key findings suggest that a strong sense of community and family proximity are critical factors for student success. To facilitate this transition, Bedell advocates for collaborative practices between tribal and mainstream institutions, encouraging better communication and resource sharing. Future Directions and Concluding Thoughts As BMCC looks towards the future, Bedell envisions the need for education to adapt to societal changes and trends to meet evolving student needs effectively. Improvements in data collection and communication have already enhanced decision-making processes and student support services within higher education. Ultimately, Bedell’s leadership and insights illuminate how institutions can balance cultural preservation with academic excellence, offering a model for other colleges to follow. You are encouraged to share feedback, suggest new topics or guests, and leave a 5-star review on podcast platforms, helping SA Voices Form the Field continue delivering enriching conversations and insights from leaders like Duane Bedell. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we welcome Duane Biddell, president of Bay Mills Community College. Duane resides in Ganuja Kaaneng, the place of the pike in the Bay Mills Indian community, and has worked in tribal communities for more than 20 years in various roles. He served as an information technology director for the Intertribal Council of Michigan, an adjunct faculty member for Bay Mills Community College, BMCC, and a full time faculty member and computer information systems department chair. He also served as Bay Mills Indian Community tribal manager for 2 years before being named by BMCC's Board of Regions as BMCC's president and CEO in 2020. Bedell attended and graduated from tribal colleges. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:02]: He attended Haskell Indian Junior College and completed his studies at BMCC in 1998 with an associate of applied science degree in computer information systems. While working full time and raising a family, Duane continued his education earning a bachelor's degree in information technology and security from Baker College in 2013 and a master of arts degree in education technology from the University Duane Bedell [00:01:21]: of Michigan Flint in 2015. In 2018, he Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:21]: completed an education 2018, he completed an education specialist degree from the University of Michigan Flint. And in 2020, he earned the status of doctoral candidate in education administration. Fidel is expected to defend his dissertation in November of 2024. His commitment to giving back to education involves a presidential appointment to the National Advisory Council on Indian Education, along with mentoring future leaders who have an interest in higher education. Duane likes to be known as just a guy trying to make a difference in education. Duane, welcome to SA Voices. Duane Bedell [00:01:52]: Hi. It's great to be here today, and I absolutely look forward to our conversation today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:57]: It's always such a pleasure for us here in a student affairs podcast to feature a college president because we can always learn from the much larger context of higher education when we get to hear your perspective on things. You're the current president of Bay Mills Community College, which is a community college that does focus on serving American Indians and indigenous American populations in your part of Michigan. And we always love to start off of our episodes by asking our guests, how did you get to your current seat? Duane Bedell [00:02:25]: Well, there is a long story that's behind it, but I'm gonna do my best to condense this. I started off as a adjunct faculty member here at Bay Mills Community College back in 2000, and the way I was asked to teach a computer science course, it was I was the only available person really, and they called me and they asked if I could teach the course. And of course, being a shy, nervous IT guy at the time, I had thought there is no way I could stand in front of someone around a classroom, particularly for folks who are generally older than I am. Because at that time, Big Boss Community College had a lot of non traditional students, and I think I was 23, maybe 24 at the time when I was asked to teach this course. So I told them I would do it if they couldn't find anybody, but honestly, I don't think they even tried because they called back in about 10 minutes and asked, hey, we couldn't find anybody, so could you teach this course? So moving forward 10 years later, I decided to become a full time faculty member here at Bay Mills Community College. And at that time, I decided I wanted to try something a little bit different, and I wanted to learn a little bit about administration. So I started asking questions, and I became involved with the occupational programs that we have here, and got to meet a lot of great folks throughout the state to learn about the occupational services or our program through all of the community colleges in Michigan. And I just asked that one question one day to our president. Duane Bedell [00:03:39]: I said, you know, what do I have to do to become the next you? Because he had signified that he was going to try to start mentoring some folks who were on the team already to see. So I had a private conversation with him over coffee, and he gave me a couple of really good pieces of advice that I followed up on and made happen. And lo and behold, here I am. I I am sitting in this role for 5 years now. I'm loving every minute of it. And I can tell you one thing, just to see the students really light up from the day that they walk into our facilities until the day that they graduate is just what I'm in it for. It's just watching student success and watching actually my team grow here at the college as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:15]: That's an amazing glow up from IT guy at the college all the way through sitting in the president's office today. What is the most important thing that your community college is focusing on right now? Duane Bedell [00:04:25]: Really just to meet the students where they are at right now. Like a lot of other community colleges, we get students that come from all walks of life. We have students who are full time parents, who are single parents, who are working full time jobs when trying to manage their family. But one of the most important things that we do here is strive to meet the student where they're at in life and provide the resources for them. I think as the community college, it's very important for us to learn who our students are, to learn about their different learning styles, and find the resources that are available to fit them specifically so they can move forward in their academic program. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:01]: Because your community college is fulfilling a very specific need in Michigan, what are you doing that might be unique for Bay Mills that other community colleges aren't doing? Or what are you doing that you might think even be more cutting edge than what we might see at another community college? Duane Bedell [00:05:17]: So one of the things that we do here at Bay Mills Community College, since we're designated as a tribal college, is that we incorporate our culture into every aspect of our campus. You can walk around the campus and see things written in the Ojibwe language. You can learn about the Ojibwe cultures in your classes. But most importantly is that you get to feel the sense of community while you are here as well. And once we incorporate all of these aspects into it, we really give a holistic learning environment for our students. Cutting Edge technology, we represent several tribes throughout the United States, and we also have partnerships with other tribal communities throughout the nation as well. So the last numbers that I took a look at, we represent 23 streets in the nation, and then we also represent, I believe it's 31 or maybe 32 tribes throughout the United States, and that's through our online environment. We do have a a, a lot of program that goes online towards tribal students, or essentially everybody can take these courses from from their homes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:13]: In the theme of past, present, and future of student affairs and really your case, higher education, I'm really appreciative of the of the way that you're talking about. You know, it's it's an experience where our culture is part of the curriculum rather than it's something that we're trying to squeeze in as something extra, which is what a lot of universities sometimes find themselves doing. So when you talk about kind of infusing or even weaving in Ojibwe culture into all aspects of student life, Can you give us a couple of examples of what that looks like in practice? Duane Bedell [00:06:44]: Certainly. So our instructors or every course that's offered here on campus, whether it's an in person course or an online course, has to have some component throughout the semester that evolves around culture, or Anishinaabe culture, I should say. And our teachers have became very creative at that and how to incorporate culture into their curriculum. So I will follow-up on one example that that I was really fascinated by, and this came from a college algebra course, actually. So, you know, trying to blend math with Anishinaabe culture, or Ojibwe culture, is kind of difficult to do. But our math faculty member decided to have students work on building traditional regalia, dance regalia, but using mathematics and doing that as well. Another item too is just, you know, incorporate what our medicine wheel is or incorporate what our 7 grandfathers' teachings are as well. And we've incorporated these types of teachings into every course. Duane Bedell [00:07:36]: In fact, it's it's mandatory for every course to have this embedded into their syllabus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:40]: When you think about, syllabus. When you think about the past, present, and future of tribal colleges, you know, it's a bigger question than your particular community college. Can you tell us about the trends, for incorporation of culture or how we've kind of evolved over time in higher education to serve our indigenous American and American Indian population? Duane Bedell [00:07:59]: You know, that that's a really good question. Where we have come from the past is just recognizing who tribal communities are and recognizing and learning about the different cultures and the different traditions that are involved with the tribal communities. And finding a way to bring that into a college could be difficult because there's so many aspects on that. But being located in a tribal community makes it a lot easier for a tribal college to do so. And one of the things is to always have the open ear and always listen because I don't know everything about my culture. And there's a lot of folks that I work with that don't know everything, but we rely on input from our community, particularly our elders. And our elders are really guiding us on the ways that help keep our traditions and our cultures alive throughout the program. So that way, the future generation will always have that as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:47]: Let's talk about student affairs specifically in your collegiate environment. I would imagine that you're also doing the same work to incorporate tradition and culture into aspects of student affairs. So with the team that you're leading, how are you taking the literature and the best practices that student affairs as a profession puts forth and making them work for your environment given that we know that our research is really focused on usually predominantly white institutions, predominantly white students, traditionally aged populations, all of those things. Duane Bedell [00:09:16]: First of all, I have to say I have an excellent student services team. We really have a a team that is very dedicated to student success and finding the resources for our students as well. But one of the things that our team does is really take a look at the data. They take a look at the data from, from existing research, but they also take a look at ways that we can incorporate our tribal values into that as well. So they go about this to not only help students become successful, but also help them learn about their by providing a lot of events on campus. We host cultural events probably 3 to 4, sometimes 5 times a month and so on. But at the same time, teaching the students how to take that knowledge that they're learning and turn it into ways that they can become more professional and more successful by really just building the confidence that they can truly learn and that they can truly accomplish anything that they put their minds behind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:08]: Anything that you're particularly proud of in your community right now in this regard? Duane Bedell [00:10:12]: Just watching our tribal community grow and become more educated and not be afraid of education. When I first moved to the community and as I stated before recording, I was a military brat, so I got to travel around the world. When I first came here to our community, there were only 2 tribal members that had master's degrees. So moving forward about 25 years now, we have a significant amount of tribal members who have college degrees, whether they're associate degrees, whether they're bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, and doctoral degrees now, which to me is a huge accomplishment to see where we were back early nineties to where we're at right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:49]: You yourself are in the final stages of your doctoral dissertation, Polish. Can you tell us about your research? Duane Bedell [00:10:55]: So my research is really focusing on the success rate of tribal students who go to a tribal college versus students who go directly to a mainstream institution. And one of the emphasis that I really focused on is that tribal college, are they more successful when they transfer from the tribal college to go when they go to a university? And if so, what are some of the factors that that fall behind that? And one of the things that I really found was that the it's the sense of community at the tribal colleges. And the other part was that they're close to home. They have access to their families. Whereas if someone goes directly from a tribal community, which are typically rural areas, and move to a I'll use University of Michigan, for example, move to that campus. And just imagine how big that campus is. Their campus body is probably about sometimes 8 to 10 times larger than their entire community and trying to adapt to that, especially moving away from their families. So I was curious to see what are the success rates with the hopes of being able to develop a program that will allow mainstream institutions and tribal colleges to work together to support the, Native American students that attend their institutions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:59]: That's an amazing outcome from that research. What would that look like in practice? I think what would look like outcome from that research. What would that look like in practice? Duane Bedell [00:12:02]: Yeah. I think what would look like is that both parties or institutions should have to sit down and share practices, knowledge, and share how they can engage particularly tribal students going to their institutions. But at the same time, folks who have tribal college also have to learn how the mainstream institutions work. So that way, they compare their prepared students as well when they make that transfer over. It's gonna take a lot of good conversations and a lot of planning, but I think it's something that can certainly happen. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:29]: There's a lot of social capital when we work with transfer students. And I think a lot of the things that benefit 1st gen students and what we know about 1st gen student research also applies to students who are transferring. And a lot of that has to do with simply doing the right onboarding for students on how to understand the system that they're entering. When we think about supporting students who are transferring from tribal colleges to, as as you term mainstream universities, what's the most important thing that the receiving institution can do to receive those students and set them up for success? Duane Bedell [00:13:00]: Just have available resources ready for them and be really prepared to have a method to get these students to ask questions. A lot of times from our Native Americans in particular and myself, I'm one of them. I was really shy and I didn't know what types of questions I need to ask. I didn't know where I could find his resources. Probably just me being stubborn too is that I can figure it out on my own. And I'm sure that there are a lot of students that have that same mindset. So just in taking the student, show them the resources that are available, but most importantly, show them and teach them that they can be comfortable asking any question that they need to ask in order to find the resources or maybe even if it's just a a tour of the campus or introduce them to some key staff members, maybe a professor, maybe, someone from the student services that can be their person to go to. And I think if a student that transfers over has an individual that they can talk to and ask questions, I think that's gonna help a lot. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:55]: And if I'm a professional right now working at a tribal college, what can I take from your research and implement at my institution? Duane Bedell [00:14:00]: What you can take from from my research is really just to learn more about the institutions that our students can transfer to. So here, particularly in the state of Michigan, we have a wide range of different types of universities that we can go to. We have our mid 10 universities. We have our smaller universities like Central Michigan or Ferris State University, I. E. Even Northern Michigan University. But learning about the resources on that campus and learning about the individuals that they can contact individually just to learn more about that. So if they were going to send a student to Northern Michigan, I would say, our team should know exactly who's your advisor, what programs are gonna be there, and in what ways can Bay Mills Community College help you become more comfortable when you're transferring over? And I think if we ask those questions and create those contacts, I think it's gonna help a lot of our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:46]: What do you dream about for your institution? Duane Bedell [00:14:48]: I dream about a lot of things, and I know that our institution really accomplished anything that we work toward because of the team that I have here. But first and foremost, I really just want to be the institution that is a place for folks to come and learn a little bit about themselves, gain confidence, and be able to leave our institution with the confidence to succeed at a mainstream university or enter the workforce and be confident about it. One of my biggest pushes as of late is to see if we can get more doctors out there that are in our communities. So, you know, it all starts with that conversation. And I really go around, even with some of my staff members here and students, is I know that they're completing the end of their studies here and they move on, I always plant that seed. Maybe you want to think about a PhD or an EdD. Maybe if you want it, if you want to come back and lead Bay Mills Community College, please let me know because I'd be more than happy to sit down and mentor you and show you the steps that you need to take in order to gain a position like this. So on. Duane Bedell [00:15:43]: But, you know, the biggest dream is just to be a tribal college that is well known throughout the state of Michigan and the nation for our program that we have here. And for folks to know how good of a staff that I have here. My team, like I said before, is phenomenal and we couldn't be where we're at today without our team. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:02]: You've mentioned the theme of mentorship a couple of times in our conversation is kind of a key to your success and hearing you moving others along the path pathway as well. What does mentorship look like at BMCC? Duane Bedell [00:16:13]: Really what mentorship looks like to BMCC, particularly, and I'm gonna use an example here with a couple of staff members that that I've been working with. And these are our our team members who graduated from Bay Mills Community College and had come on as employees at Bay Mills Community College. But just to watch them gain the confidence to earn a bachelor's degree, then move on to a master's degree. And the hope is now is to get them to a doctorial degree. But mentorship is just having just the day to day conversations, with them. And to me, it's not all business. I take the time to learn a little bit about their family life, take the time to learn about their hobbies, and then I find ways to incorporate those into the conversation when we start talking about leadership positions or the next steps in their studies just to see, you know, what can I do to really help them not be afraid to take that next step? And I'm as transparent as you can be. I would tell you the ups and downs of this position or any other position that I led, but I'm also will also find a way to find a way to strategize to overcome that obstacle as well. Duane Bedell [00:17:10]: To me, that's what mentorship is is what it's all about. So I Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:17]: think a lot of professionals look at that presidential position as an ultimate aspiration. Not all all of us are going to get there or not all of us want to get there. That's all okay. What advice do you have for those on the pathway to eventually sit in a seat like yours? Duane Bedell [00:17:32]: The advice I have is to not be afraid to take chances or take any risk and not be afraid to push yourself. There's going to be times where you are gonna have to sacrifice a lot in order to obtain the knowledge and taking the skills that you need to be successful in this position. But most important is to have an open mind. I've learned that over the last 5 years being in this role is that you have to have an open mind to everything, and that you also have to be able to have those conversations with your teams because you also have to realize that you're not the one that knows everything. That's when you bring your team, but you have to, rely on the feedback that you get from your teammates as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:10]: There seems to be, as of late, more and more pressure on college presidents to be increasingly infallible, which we know is ultimately an impossibility. How do you manage the pressure of that type of senior leadership along with the realities that, you know, you're a human being doing the best they can on a day to day? Duane Bedell [00:18:27]: You know, one of the things that I've learned a long time ago was how to balance my family life, my professional life, and my academic life. And I think that's how I became really able to manage the whole process of education, I guess you could say. So how to manage writing a paper or going through the school work to earn a doctor's degree, but most importantly is just being able to turn off the phone, I guess you can say, or turn off the emails I had a specific time to spend time with your family. I know that sometimes it could be difficult, but I think one of the things that I've learned about working here at Bay Mills Community College, and I've seen it transpire across the entire campus, is that it's okay to turn off your emails, it's okay to turn off your phone, and it's okay to go outdoors, take a walk outside, get your breath, and just focus on you and your family. And I think just relying on the support systems that that I have and the, colleagues that I have here, and just by not being a I guess I'm I'm not a high stress person, so it takes a lot to really stress me out, which really, really happens. But just being able just to step away, take a deep breath, and come back in and go back at it again, I think that's the way that it's going to lead you to success and prevent burnout. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]: What a gift to be able to give to your team as well to say, you know, it's okay. As the president, I'm turning off my email. As the president, I'm taking time for my family. And that I absolutely know is something that is felt by everyone who works with you. Duane Bedell [00:19:51]: So one of the examples that I I have learned, and I have told these folks across the nation because working with other tribal colleges and other tribal college leaders, is that all of my colleagues nationwide, they know not to contact me after 7 PM Eastern Standard Time because they know I will not answer. I will not look at my phone until the next morning. But if they send an email at 6:55 PM, I can respond real quick, and then I'll turn my phone off. But just send them that message out and send them that that those are the times that I will not respond because it's my personal time, it's my family time. And if you make that a priority, I think that's really gonna help be you be successful as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:24]: Little shift of topic here. I'm wondering if you can share if there's anything you wish that mainstream university administrators knew about tribal colleges and the amazing work that you are all doing. Duane Bedell [00:20:35]: I think it's important for mainstream institutions that are near tribal communities to take the time to learn about the customs. And I'm gonna share an example here. This individual was a a student here, but he was very soft spoken, very shy. And oftentimes, he did not look folks directly in the eyes as they were speaking. And I remember he came back to campus one day and asked how he could or if I had any advice for him because his professor had essentially told him that he was going to get kicked out of class for not maintaining eye contact and being disrespectful. After learning a little bit about the Ojibwe culture, it's in fact, customary for a lot of folks not to make eye contact, when they're having direct conversations like that. And just shedding a little bit of light on that, I think, can help, a long ways or help mainstream institutions understand their Native American population as well. The other aspect to it is to just really sit down and meet them where they're at. Duane Bedell [00:21:30]: And I understand that mainstream institutions are a lot larger than tribal colleges. So it's almost it's it's very difficult to really get to know the student, for who they are and so on. But just be able to find someone to to make that key contact with the native American students, I think it's gonna help with the success rates. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:46]: A lot of mainstream institutions are hiring tribal relations positions or creating indigenous American student centers, as the person who is hopefully working with your students to transfer into those institutions, what are you hoping for from the partnership on the other side? Duane Bedell [00:22:01]: Just to have a a really good close relationship and an understanding relationship with the student that's transferring in. Again, it's all about meeting that person, and and that's the common theme here. It's just meeting them, as a person and meeting them where they're at. And it and I think that's gonna go a long, long ways. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:16]: What about from administrator to administrator? Duane Bedell [00:22:19]: From administrator to administrator, just really take the time to learn about the Native American communities that you serve. And the same thing goes for me. I always try to take the time to learn about their institution, about their culture, and most importantly, you know, just to learn about the campus environment and how their institution works as well. I think it's very important for myself to learn as much as I can about the mainstream institutions as mainstream institutions should learn about tribal colleges and tribal students as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: Dwayne, I'm going to go ahead and move us into our theme questions for the season. Again, we've been focusing on the past, present, and future of student affairs in higher education. So I'm gonna ask you 3 questions, 1 each on the past, present, and future. So with the past, what's one component of the history of higher education or student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Duane Bedell [00:23:11]: I think that we should just carry forward the mission of making sure that your students have the resources to be successful. The student services in general, that's their main goal, is to make sure that their students are comfortable and that their students have their resources to be successful. If that were to go away, I think our students would be lost. So I I think we certainly need to keep that there. In the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs in higher education right now that's going well Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:32]: for us? What's higher education right now that's going well for us? What's really going well for us is that there is more communication across the institutions, that we're learning a Duane Bedell [00:23:37]: little bit more about each other. But most importantly, the data collection is getting getting a lot better. So we can use the data and actually turn that data to make key decisions on better ways to support our students. And I think all institutions are doing a great job at that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:56]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards a future? Duane Bedell [00:24:02]: I think that in the future that they just really need to find ways to meet the current demands of society. As we know, society shifts and it shifts very quickly. And being able to keep up with those demands and the latest trends will help our student services meet our students where they should meet them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:26]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton happening. And there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. I've talked about this before, but one of the great resources that you have available to yourself atnaspa.org is the Leadership Exchange magazine. The Leadership Exchange is a the Leadership Exchange is a magazine that comes out a number of times per year and offers you an opportunity to be able to identify solutions for those of us in Student Affairs Management. Now, if you're not in a manager role, but have an interest in learning more about ways in which individuals think about management in Student Affairs, this resource is available to all NASPA members. One article that came out in the most recent article in the most recent Leadership Exchange, which came out in fall 2024, talks about transforming student affairs professional preparation. In this article, you get a great insight into what is happening currently in student affairs professional programs and what many programs are starting to do to look at preparation in a whole new way. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:39]: Whether you have a student affairs professional program on your campus or not, it is a fascinating read, especially for all of us that have gone through professional programs or are in the midst of going through a professional preparation program currently. Highly encourage you to check out that article. As I said, it is a free resource to all NASPA members. So highly encourage you to go and check it out for yourself. One of the other things that I'm going to talk about today is getting involved in NASPA. Each of you have an opportunity to be able to give back to the professional Association that you've been a part of for quite some time. NASPA is always looking for individuals that are willing to give their time and talent to providing insight into knowledge communities, conferences, and more to be able to find out about opportunities that currently exist. It's really easy. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:31]: All you do is go to the NASPA website, click on volunteer. And on that page, you're going to see a number of different ways in which you can volunteer and you can identify ways in which you can get involved. Basically, the easiest way to do that is to log in right through that page. You'll see that you can log into your NASPA profile. When you log in to your NASPA profile, you can then go into volunteer central. And in volunteer central, you'll see any and all opportunities that exist. I will tell you, as someone that's been involved with the knowledge communities for a very long time, there are a ton of opportunities to get involved. So I highly encourage you to find some way to give back to the association, to help the association to be stronger and be able to do what you can to be able to take even more out of your professional association membership. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:29]: Speaking of knowledge communities, if you're not involved in a knowledge community, I highly encourage you to check out all of the different knowledge communities that exist. This is a great time of year to go into your NASPA profile and update your interests. You can go in and you can sign up to be a part of any of the knowledge communities just by going in and updating your preferences. By going in and updating those, you'll start to hear from the different knowledge communities and see what's happening in those knowledge communities. You can also go on to the NASPA website, go under communities, and then click on knowledge communities and see the over 30 knowledge communities that exist. Well, what are knowledge communities? Well, knowledge communities are small communities based on functional areas and identities that allow you to find your place within NASPA. The k the knowledge communities are what we call KCs, serve as content experts and communities of support for you as you are going through your own professional journey. I know that personally, I've been involved with knowledge communities for quite a long time. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:35]: There are definitely knowledge communities that I identify with and I pull a lot from because of the work that I do on a daily basis. And I know that you can find that as well. You can be as involved as you want to be, or you can just be collecting the information. But getting involved is the first step. Getting involved in at least being a part of the knowledge community so that you can find out more is the right way to be able to help you to stay connected. So I highly encourage you to take advantage of these knowledge communities. Learn more about them, find out more, and get involved in some way to be able to increase your own ability to know about what's happening on other campuses, but also in the profession as well. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:43]: Chris, we always appreciate you keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. Appreciate you creating our NASPA world segments each and every week. And Duane, we have now reached our lightning round, and I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to rock? Duane Bedell [00:30:59]: I am. Let's do this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:01]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Duane Bedell [00:31:06]: That's an easy one because I just did this. So astronaut, in the ocean, Metallica, wherever I may roam, and M and M lose yourself. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:14]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Duane Bedell [00:31:17]: I wanted to be a secret service agent. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:19]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Duane Bedell [00:31:22]: The previous president here, Michael Parrish. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:24]: Number 4, your essential higher education read. Duane Bedell [00:31:28]: Oh, that is tough to narrow. I have so many, and then so many titles are going through my head. I can't answer that. I got too many titles. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Duane Bedell [00:31:37]: Yellowstone. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:38]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Duane Bedell [00:31:42]: I actually haven't taken time to listen to too many podcasts in the in the last year. The last one that I listened to was the one that was featured at University of Michigan Flint. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:49]: That's a a shout out for, doctor Chris Lewis, our producer and audio engineer on this show. He hosts that show. And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Duane Bedell [00:31:59]: You know, I just like to give a shout out to all teachers, all administrators that are out there. You guys are doing a phenomenal job, and then I can't wait to see what our future leaders are gonna look like. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:08]: Dwayne, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today and to get to learn from your perspective about what it's like to be leading as a college president at a tribal college in 2024. And I'm sure others would like to learn from you as well. So if they would like to reach out to you after we air, how can they find you? Duane Bedell [00:32:23]: They can find me on LinkedIn LinkedIn just by typing my name in, or they can email me at dapadel, which is bedell@bmcc.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:32]: Duane, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Duane Bedell [00:32:35]: Well, thank you for having me on this podcast. I certainly appreciated it, and I look forward to hearing more podcasts. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:28]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Overcoming Barriers: Black Male Engagement in Higher Education with Marcus Langford 48:28

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This week on NASPA's SA Voices from the Field Podcastr Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Marcus R. Langford, the Associate Vice Provost for the Center for Learner Diversity and Inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University (OHSU). Marcus shares his thoughts on leadership, diversity, and balancing a demanding career with family life. The Path to Leadership and Diversity at OHSU Marcus R. Langford's journey in higher education began with a personal challenge—an arduous college transition—leading him to become an orientation leader. This pivotal moment guided his career, allowing him to work in various capacities across the country, from Oregon State University to the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash. Currently, at OHSU, Marcus spearheads initiatives to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion. Throughout this episode, Marcus emphasizes the significance of collaborating with intelligent, talented individuals. He credits his ability to identify patterns, navigate complex systems, and engage effectively with people as critical to his professional evolution from a specialist to a generalist—a valuable skillset for anyone in leadership roles within student affairs. Doctoral Research: Black Male Engagement and Placemaking Marcus is pursuing a Doctorate of Education (EdD) with his dissertation titled "Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon." His research shines a light on the engagement and sense of belonging of Black male students at predominantly white institutions (PWIs). Drawing from personal experiences, Marcus highlights the challenges Black students face in these environments. His findings reveal that while Black male students are actively involved across campus, they often find meaningful engagement in culturally relevant spaces like the National Association For Black Journalists and the Black Cultural Center. Unfortunately, these cultural groups sometimes face institutional barriers, such as restrictive catering policies that hinder the authenticity of cultural events. The Need for Institutional Support and Recognition Marcus's research underscores the need for institutions to recognize and support diverse forms of student engagement. Traditional engagement opportunities, such as student government, are sometimes less appealing to Black male students due to microaggressions and dismissive behaviors. Institutions must reconsider how their policies may inhibit students from expressing their authentic selves and engaging fully. A practical example Marcus discusses involves the challenges cultural groups face when trying to work with external vendors to provide authentic cultural food. Institutional catering policies often prevent these collaborations, leading to unsatisfactory event experiences that can affect student engagement and sense of belonging. Updating Theories and Practices in Student Affairs Marcus advocates for a shift away from the overreliance on classical student development theories that may limit students' experiences. He suggests that institutions should expand the scope of what is considered valuable student engagement, integrating culturally relevant activities alongside traditional ones. Additionally, ongoing education for faculty and staff is crucial to understanding the evolving needs of students, which differ significantly from previous generations. Mentorship and Professional Growth Mentorship plays a vital role in Marcus's career. Larry Roper, a seasoned professional in student affairs, has been instrumental in guiding Marcus, emphasizing the importance of not needing to be the smartest person in the room and the value of continuous learning. Marcus appreciates the influence of younger professionals in challenging historical practices and pushing for necessary changes within the field. Balancing Professional and Personal Life One of the most profound insights Marcus shares is the importance of distinguishing between professional and personal commitments. He stresses that while he likes his job, he loves his family, and it's essential to prioritize personal relationships. This perspective, influenced by his mentor Larry Roper, reminds us that systems are designed to function without individuals, so self-care and personal well-being should not be neglected. Conclusion: Moving Forward with Inclusive Practices As Marcus R. Langford continues to lead efforts in diversity and inclusion at OHSU, his insights remind us of the ongoing need for institutions to adapt and support the dynamic needs of their students. By reevaluating policies, expanding engagement opportunities, and providing continuous education for faculty and staff, higher education can create more inclusive and supportive environments for all students. Stay tuned for more enlightening discussions on "Dads with Daughters," and be sure to catch future episodes where we continue to explore the intersections of personal and professional lives in meaningful ways. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, I am overjoyed to be joined by Marcus R Langford, who is currently serving as associate vice provost for the center for learner and diversity and inclusion at Oregon Health and Science University or OHSU. In this role, Marcus is responsible for providing leadership and vision for the center to advance OHSU's learner centered diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging goals. This work includes providing educational engagement opportunities for learners, as well as working with institutional partners to envision and achieve a collaborative cohesive approach to the enhanced recruitment and retention of diverse learners. In this role, Marcus is fortunate to work with and provide leadership to a talented team of individuals committed to cultivating relationships, creating educational solutions, and interrogating policies, practices, and procedures in partnership with various institutional partners and constituents to build institutional capacity for transformative change. Prior to his OHSU work, Marcus was at the University of Oregon where he most recently served as dean of students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Prior to U of O, over the span of 20 years in higher ed, he served in several roles with increasing levels of scope and responsibility at a variety of institutional types. Marcus has professional experience in a variety of functional areas, including academic intervention and advising, campus programming, crisis management, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, leadership development, multicultural affairs, orientation and new student programs, student involvement, and veteran student affairs. I also wanna take a moment to pre congratulate Marcus on his future defense of his doctoral dissertation. I'm so excited to welcome Marcus Langford to the show. So good to see you, Marcus. Marcus R. Langford [00:01:57]: Hey there. How are you? Glad to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:59]: So for our listeners, Marcus and I have known each other for a very long time at this point. The very first time we met, Marcus was working at Oregon State in orientation and retention, and I was earning my master's. So we have been kind of at the same institution on and off a couple of times now. And so I'm so excited for our listeners to get to know you through your expertise and your research and and where you sit now. We always like to open our episodes by asking our guests how you got to your current seat and kind of teeing up from that journey out of orientation. How did you land into an AVP of DEIB space? Marcus R. Langford [00:02:37]: Glad to see you and talk to you again. Always fun to chop it up with you a little bit, and thank you for, giving me this opportunity. So whenever I talk a little bit about how I got somewhere, for me, I always have to start at the beginning. And so for me, starting at the beginning, you know, ensures that I let folks know that I am a Southerner by birth. That's a big part of who I am and how I see the world and how I approach the world. So I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but I spent the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. But even though I spent more time in Cincinnati than in Birmingham, I still would say I'm a Southerner by birth. And so the vast majority of my growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm a high school English teacher by training. Marcus R. Langford [00:03:19]: So my undergraduate degrees are in English Education and African American History. But how I got into the field was kind of typical or classic, and so much as I did not have the greatest transition to college. So much so that about midway through my 1st year, I vividly remember this like it happened yesterday, I called my mom and said, mom, I just don't know if this is for me. I think I want to drop out and come home. And in her infinite wisdom, my mom said, absolutely not. She said, dropping out is not an option. She said, you know, your your dad and I and other folks have invested too much time, energy, and effort into you, and you are more than capable enough to be successful in this endeavor. So she said, do one more thing, join one more club, one more organization. Marcus R. Langford [00:04:05]: And if that doesn't work, at the end of the year, we can revisit this conversation, but we'll talk about where you will transfer to, not the fact that you're gonna drop out. And so like any good Southern boy, I I did what my mom told me to do. And that one thing that I elected to do was to actually apply to be an orientation leader. And part of the reason why I did that is because even though I had a difficult transition or a rough transition, the one person that I actually was able to make some semblance of a connection with throughout my first the midway through my 1st semester and through my 1st semester was my orientation leader. I still remember her name, Amy Mandler. And so in typical orientation fashion, at the end of my orientation experience, she gave her email, and her phone number and said, if something comes up during the year, give me a call, and I'll see what I can do to help. And so even though I had a, again, a difficult transition, that was the one person who was somewhat of a lifeline for me. And so that one more thing that my mom compelled me to do actually was being an orientation leader. Marcus R. Langford [00:05:08]: But I still tell folks, even though Amy was a really, really great resource to me, I went into that experience with these nefarious purposes in my mind. Because in my mind, I was a black student at a predominantly white institution. And in my mind, I was gonna be the orientation leader that really kind of kept it real. But as you can imagine, for whatever reason, miraculously, I was selected. And as you can imagine, I had a fantastic experience. My experience as an fantastic experience. My experience as an orientation leader connected me to the institution, connected me to faculty, staff, and even other students in ways that I previously had not been connected. And so that really experience really was a pivotal point in my educational experience. Marcus R. Langford [00:05:47]: Not only did it change the trajectory of my educational experience as a student, but it ultimately ended up changing the trajectory of my life. So long story short, I ended up graduating and I set up my high school English teacher. So I taught high school English for a little while, but elected to go back to graduate school to get a master's degree. And I went back to Miami University where I did my undergraduate work, I got a master's degree in higher ed. And at that point, transitioned to higher education where I got my first job in orientation and new student programs at Oregon State University. So I spent about 5, almost 6 years at Oregon State working with orientation and new student programs. So summer orientation visit programs, the 1st year experience class before ultimately, transitioning from there to Rhodes College, which is a small private liberal arts college in Memphis, Tennessee. I ended up going to Rhodes to help them build a traditional summer orientation program. Marcus R. Langford [00:06:45]: So at the time, Rhodes was a small school, and they operated on the methodology that a lot of small schools did where they brought everyone to campus about a week or two before classes started. But what they found was that they were experiencing a high degree of summer melt because their students, all of their friends were going to orientation throughout the summer, coming home with schedules, coming home with IDs, coming home with shirts. And when you're a small institution that has a incoming class of a couple of 100, if you end up losing 5, 10, 20 students, that's a pretty big deal. So at Rose, I was hired to build a summer orientation program. So we backed up their fall orientation to a more traditional 2 day summer orientation program. So I spent some time doing that, but then at a small school, as many folks may know, you end up doing everything. And so that's where I started to get some more experience in academic intervention and crisis work and academic advising before ultimately leaving Rhodes to go back to Ohio where I grew up, to spend time working at the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash, which was a regional college of the University of Cincinnati. And for all intents and purposes, I was the chief student affairs for that regional campus. Marcus R. Langford [00:07:57]: And so everything student affairs related at some point kind of rolled up to me, and so that was career services, student government, orientation, multicultural affairs, Hispanic and Latino affairs. And so that's really where the breadth of my experience, started to, expand, a little bit, and was there for about six and a half, maybe 7 years before being recruited to come back to Oregon, to work at the University of Oregon. So I spent 7 years at the University of Oregon as an assistant dean, an associate dean, and then ultimately the dean of student. And that's where we came that's where we came back together. So that's where our paths cross stuck in. Spent 7 years there. Had a really, really good and rich experience there before ultimately making the transition to OHSU, which is where I am right now as the associate vice provost for the Center For Learner Diversity and Inclusion. And so I've end this role in Portland for just about 3 months now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:56]: And when we think about your journey in student affairs, I think you have a rich diversity of geographical experience in the field. We see folks kind of do both. Right? Either that are very anchored to one particular region or folks that kind of you and I both have gone have gone all over the country in kind of service of the profession. So I'd love to hear from you on as you've evolved in the past, present, and future of your career, how has that geographical space made a difference or informed the way that you're practicing in the field? Marcus R. Langford [00:09:24]: That's a very good question, and I'll actually add another layer to that. And so I think my geographical experience has had an effector, and I also would add a layer of institutional type. And so what I would say is when I look back over the balance of my career, I think the fact that I've worked in multiple states and locations and the fact that I've worked at multiple institution types, that has served to strengthen me as a professional. You know, when I think about, you know, my experience at Oregon State University, which was a large land, sea, sun, space, air grant institute spa space, institution. There are skills and things that I had to think about there relative to connecting with students and the mission of the institution that in some ways did, and in some ways did not transfer to my experience at Rhodes College, which was a private, liberal arts focused, 1200 student institution. And so they were yes, there are oftentimes some through lines that exist when we're talking about working with and supporting college students. But some of the things that my students at Rhodes were dealing with were qualitatively different than, you know, some of the things that my students at Oregon State were dealing with or some of my students who, were at a commuter school, like the University of Cincinnati Blue Ash College. And so again, for me, whether it be institution type or geographical in nature, there were just aspects of that that I had to think about differently. Marcus R. Langford [00:10:53]: And for me, I think that served, to enhance me as a professional. Again, it it it forced me to think about what I did, how I did it, and why I did it in different contexts. And so I had to be adaptable and make adjustments, based on where I was. It wasn't necessarily the ability, again, to pick up how I do what I do and just drop it part for parcel from one place to another. So yeah. So both living in a variety of different places and working at a number of different institutional types, without a doubt, has served to strengthen me as a professional in my perspective. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:28]: You also went from being a specialist in orientation to moving into a more generalist perspective as your career grew and you kind of moved upward in the hierarchies of student affairs. How did you manage to kind of acquire those skills as you went along that really served you from going, okay, I am a person who is implementing this program to now I'm a person designing this program to now I'm a person who has this program plus a couple of others. And then all of a sudden, you're holding all of the cards for a dean of students area. And at the University of Oregon, it's probably one of the larger dean of students areas I've seen at an r one d one. I think a lot of times, modern deans of students offices are really in the core of conduct and care, and maybe there are some other functions. But the University of Oregon has about half of the entire student affairs portfolio in the office of the dean of students. So talk to us a little bit about how you made that transition from your past experiences to the present of holding 13 departments. Marcus R. Langford [00:12:26]: You're spot on. The dean of students portfolio at Oregon at the University of Oregon was and is rather large, and it was a lift. I I think one of the things that made that doable is the fact that there were some very, very talented folks there doing some good work. And so I was able to lean into the expertise and the experience of folks that surrounded me. But I'll come back to that because I think that's one of the reasons that I can say that I think I was able to serve in that role relatively well. But going back to your original question, yeah, so, again, I started, you know, as a specialist with within the context of orientation and new student programs. And I actually tell folks that of all functional areas, I actually think orientation is a very, very good one that can prepare you to advance. And one of the reasons why I say that is there are actually a couple of reasons. Marcus R. Langford [00:13:16]: One is orientation is one of those functional areas where and I know you can say this about others, but you have to know a little bit about everything. And so when you think about kind of understanding the ins and out of an institution, and when you think about being able to communicate and needing to communicate the variety of what an institution has to offer to an incoming student to ensure that they can cultivate a pretty solid foundation in order to be successful, that translated to me as a professional. And so, again, as someone who started as an orientation professional, it was incumbent upon me to know a little bit about pretty much every facet of the institution. And so I think that's actually one of the things that I tell folks all the time that was a huge benefit to me starting out in orientation. The other thing associated with the functional area of orientation that I actually think served me well over the course of my career is this notion of being responsible and in a way needing to manage people, places, and things that aren't necessarily yours. And so again, as an orientation professional, it's imperative that, again, you marshal the troops that you don't necessarily supervise. It's important that you kind of manage and coordinate space that you don't necessarily own. It's important that you manage people in terms of how much time they get or not. Marcus R. Langford [00:14:42]: Because if everybody wants 5 minutes, if you give 5 minutes to 10 people, 15 people, those 5 minutes actually start to stack up. And so you need to be judicious about whether or not folks can get 5 minutes or not. And so I think those are all things that, although it was coming in a, specialist way, they actually prepared me to be a generalist and as I advanced my career. So those are just some of the things that I think in terms of skills that I got from orientation that actually were truly beneficial to me later. But in terms of transitioning from something that I know a lot about and have a lot of experience to starting to collect and be responsible for a widening portfolio. Yeah. That that was a transition. And I I think part of, for me, what allowed me to do that is that I place a priority on listening. Marcus R. Langford [00:15:37]: And so as I started to accrue some of these areas that I did not have tangible or concrete experience with, I recognized that it was important for me to listen, to the folks who were doing this work. And then I also recognized, in addition to listening, that it was important for me to invest time, energy, and effort to learn as much as I could about these areas. Now I recognized again that I wasn't necessarily going to be a content area expert. That's what those staff were for, but it was imperative that I had a general sense and a general understanding of the work that they did. And so, again, listening and this notion of being willing and or able to be a lifelong learner are things that allowed me to transition, I think, rather seamlessly into this role of being a generalist as I, continue to advance in my career. And I think one of the last things that I'll say is how did I manage this, and this is the part where I'll come back to u of o. One of the best pieces of advice that I got from a former supervisor who's now a mentor of mine is that she often talked about how one of the things that benefited her was this recognition that she needed to divorce herself from this notion that she had to be the smartest person in the room at all times and that she had to have the answer every time right then. And so when I think about my experience at U of O in managing a rather large portfolio, with a lot of functional areas and quite frankly a lot of things that I didn't have a high level of personal knowledge with. Marcus R. Langford [00:17:13]: Part of that was leaning into that I don't necessarily have to be the smartest person in the room all the time, and so that was really hiring and surrounding myself with smart and talented people and allowing them to do what they were hired to do. Now I will say, I think one of the things that, you know, again, that allowed me to be successful in that is what I mentioned earlier around learning and asking questions, and leaning into their expertise. But I also think I have the ability to see patterns. I have the ability to understand and navigate systems, and I think I also have the ability to work with people. And so for me, those were 3 of the things that allowed me to transition from a specialist to a generalist, and I think be relatively successful in that transition. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:12]: Listening systems and people, those are Marcus's magic 3 for achieving that AVP title. Now, Marcus, you're you're doing all of this while you also had decided to become a PhD student or doctoral student. And I remember sitting with you as you were starting your journey, and I I passed you a post it that said, hashtag doctor Langford 2025 or sooner. And I believe we are on track for that. And so I wanna say huge congratulations to you for getting that first full one through 5 submitted for review. That is an amazing step. I remember the feeling for myself, all of a sudden, a level of guilt just kind of lifted off my shoulders that all of a sudden the free time I would take for myself was not weighted that I wasn't writing or reading at the same time. But I'm I'm really excited to learn more about your research and your findings because I think it fits well with our past, present, and future theme. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:03]: And also really aligns with your journey and your story as a person who was seeking to find belonging in higher education at the start. So why don't you tell us the, at least, tentative title for your dissertation? Marcus R. Langford [00:19:15]: Well, thank you. Again, I do remember that conversation, and I do remember that post that I just moved into believe it or not, I actually still have it. I just moved into a new office, but I have a bunch of things that folks have given me over the time. And so since I'm still in the new offices and I just moved from Eugene to Portland, it's in a box in my garage with the rest of my office stuff, but I actually do still have that posted in a couple of other things that folks have given me. Yeah. So my doctoral work. So I am in the process of getting a doctorate of education, so an EdD, and the title of my study is Making Their Own Way, A Qualitative Case Study of Black Male Engagement and Placemaking at the University of Oregon. And so I would say, generally speaking, I've always been intrigued by the experiences of Black male students at predominantly white institutions. Marcus R. Langford [00:20:04]: And I'm very clear in a couple of places in my dissertation of practice that my interest in this is deeply rooted in my own experience as a Black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so my undergraduate and graduate institution, fantastic school in the Midwest when I was there, about 16,000 permanent students, but the institution exists in a town that had, at the time when I was there, about 9,000 permanent residents. When I was there, the number of black students so when you look at 16,000 students, the number of black students that we had never exceeded 500, and I think that's probably being even that is a little bit on the high side. And so, again, I had these material experiences around what it means to be a black male student at a predominantly white institution. And so first and foremost, again, I've always been interested in thinking about the experiences of those folks. And further, I would also say that while I've worked at a number of institutions, I've also worked for a number of predominantly white institutions. And part of my rationale in doing that is because I decided that it was really important for me over the course of my career to do what I can to be for other folks what someone was to me. And so it wasn't an accident when I was looking for jobs, you know, that I ended up settling at Oregon State for a little while. Marcus R. Langford [00:21:28]: It wasn't an accident that I ended up back at the University of Oregon. It wasn't an accident that even when I went to a small school experience, it was Rose College, which is, even though it was only 1200 students, overwhelmingly white, even though it exists within Memphis, Tennessee, which is a relatively diverse city. And so for me, again, thinking about the experiences of those folks is something that has always been important to me. A little bit more about the the the study. So one of the things that I've, been much very much interested in is this notion of blackmail engagement at predominantly white institutions. And so I talk a little bit about this over the course of my study, but I've always been interested in engagement. So when we think about involvement and engagement within the context of institutions, we clearly know that being involved and being engaged makes a material difference. And so students who are involved, engaged, generally speaking, they tend to graduate at higher rates. Marcus R. Langford [00:22:26]: They tend to have higher grades. They tend to have a higher level of satisfaction with their collegiate experience. So involvement and engagement matters. But one of the things that I talk about in my literature review is that there has been a fair amount of critique when we think about what involvement and engagement means and looks like. And so when we think about some of the foundational studies that we build our knowledge in higher education on, to put it plainly, that foundational knowledge, generally speaking, is built by white men who've studied younger white men. And while there's not inherently anything wrong with that, I think what these critiques have shown is that as we've built our knowledge on this, that has served to ensure that we don't necessarily recognize and understand the full range of what these things can and should be, and we don't recognize the full range of the experiences that some folks have. And so what even prompted this study was that I would have conversations with some of my colleagues and some executive level administrators, and questions would be asked, why aren't Black male students engaged on campus? Or why aren't Black male students taking advantage of some of these same opportunities that other folks are? Why aren't Black male students kind of involved in student government? Or why aren't Black male students, you know, kind of joining our historically white fraternities? Or things like that. And what I thought then, and what was born out of my study is that while well meaning, that type of perspective flattens the range of ways that black males choose to be involved and engaged on their campuses, and it also ultimately serves to release the institution from their inherent responsibility to be mindful of why folks are making some of the decisions that they're making about where they choose to invest their time, energy, and effort. Marcus R. Langford [00:24:28]: And so actually what I found is that black male students were involved across, the landscape of the institution, but there are choices that they made about where to invest the majority of their time. And so things like culturally relevant experiences was very important. And so, you know, they talked a lot about things like the National Association For Black Journalists. They talked a lot about the Black Male Alliance. They talked a lot about the Multicultural Center. They talked a lot about the Black Cultural Center. But in addition to those things, we also did have students who did research. We had students who were in IFC fraternities. Marcus R. Langford [00:25:08]: And so they did do a range of these things. But, again, I think it was really being mindful of the fact that they were making some particular choices based on how they would experience something. And that's actually one of the things that I wanted to bring to the forefront through this study. So I conducted 3 focus groups and a couple of follow-up interviews. And, again, I found that students are engaged across the landscape of the institution. But what they also were looking for was the institution to recognize that through the application of policies, practices, and procedures, that there were ways that the institution could better support the engagement and placemaking, you know, of these students. And so some of the things, again, that institutions don't think about, we talk about policies, practices, and procedures. A very trite well, it sounds like a trite example, but it's really meaningful is if you go to any PWI, one of the things that you typically will find is this back and forth with cultural groups and campus catering. Marcus R. Langford [00:26:08]: So what will happen and, again, it sounds trite, but walk with me. So what will happen is student groups, cultural groups, will often want to work with outside vendors around cultural food, but then you often have institutional catering and food services saying, well, we can do that. And students will say, well, yeah, you can, but, like, the food is not gonna be that great it's not gonna be that great or authentic or representative or correct or, you know, we wanna support this business in the community, and the waiver will be denied. Catering will do it. And in many instances, the food is not gonna be good because it's not prepared by someone of the culture, and the event will happen, but, like, students are like, well, this food really wasn't that great. And so, again, as an institution, those are the types of things that we don't think about. Typically, some of our institution folks within our institutions don't think about those as, quote, unquote, big deals, but those are the types of experiences that when taken in total really start to create issues where students, again, around have the ability to be engaged and and kind of make place for themselves. Another thing that came up was their decision making around how they would experience an organization or an opportunity. Marcus R. Langford [00:27:23]: So going back to this notion of, well, why aren't students in student gov these students joining student government, or why aren't these students joining what we would define as these classical engagement opportunities? The students would then say, well, why do I wanna subject myself to an experience where I know I'm gonna have to deal with microaggressions on a daily basis? Like, why do I wanna join this organization where I know folks are gonna say off the wall things to me? Why do I wanna join this organization where when I joined the concert board and I say, we want to bring this person, I'm automatically gonna get shot down because that's not the type of concert or music, you know, that folks want to do. And so students, again, are making decisions about where to invest their time, energy, and effort about how they will experience things. And I think that's another piece that sometimes folks in institutions don't really think about. They don't think about how students will experience these opportunities. And in not thinking about that, it releases them from, again, their inherent obligation to ask some pretty difficult questions of themselves of how are we inhibiting, you know, our students from being their true and full selves through the application of our policies, but then also not addressing what students are telling us about some of the problematic things that they experience. So, yeah, so that's a little bit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:44]: It's a good reminder that our institutions are always microcosms of the things that are happening in larger society, especially because institutions are designed originally with specific intent on who they were serving, and those vestiges have definitely carried through the present day in in student affairs. And one of the things I most appreciate about the research that you're doing now is I think our master's programs for a good couple of decades now have done a good job of acknowledging who student development theory was written by and for. But it stops there, and it doesn't go the next step of saying, okay, well, now where are we where are we conducting research? Who are the people that are participating in our research? And how are we making sure that those perspectives are more well rounded. And so I appreciate that your study is filling a gap in the literature, but how can we change our systems to be more inclusive of the traditionally aged black male experience? That's not out there as boldly as it should be, especially given where we are in time. And there's also then an opportunity, I think, I'm I'm hearing, like, future publication for you on on how this will get out there. And I appreciate the framing too of saying, you know, the institution is not absolved of its responsibility. And we both have a mentor who has said in the past, you know, institutions are just buildings and people. And so because of that, that means we are empowered to change those institutions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:02]: Given that and given your research, can you give us maybe 1 or 2 recommendations for practice? Marcus R. Langford [00:30:08]: Great question. So one, I think I would say it's important that we adequately invest in these organizations and these structures that we design. And so, again, I'll lean into my study participants. And so one of the things that they talked about was, so there is a black cultural center, and there is a multicultural center. But oftentimes, what happens is institutions will have or build these things to say, look, we have this, but what the students talked about is, well, I appreciate that we have this thing, but can we have a conversation about how it's on the edge of campus? Like, what does that mean? Can we have a conversation about how you built this building and there's only one person, you know, who's assigned to manage this building? So can that person get some help? They talked about things like having cultural organizations, but the rules under which they have to follow through student government and all these other things are often very, very difficult because of their relative size. And so, again, I I think one recommendation is to really think about whether or not we as institutions are adequately investing, whether that be human capital or fiscal capital, in these organizations and entities that are designed to support these folks. So I think that's one thing. I think another, recommendation is that I think it's really important to have some sense of ongoing, you know, kind of education and or training for faculty and staff. Marcus R. Langford [00:31:46]: One of the things that I spent a lot of time talking about in my role as the dean of students is trying to help faculty and staff and administrators, I'll just say administrators, helping administrators and the people who comprise institutions, helping them to understand and reconcile that who you were as a student and the student experience is qualitatively different than who students are right now and what the student experience is right now. So again, one recommendation is some, you know, training or development for these folks to help them understand, again, that who students are and what the student experience is right now is qualitatively different than who they were as students. And so it's really important that we think about whether or not the folks who run these institutions have a keen and clear understanding of what student needs are today. And so some of that can be accomplished through training and development. And then I think the last thing that I would say is so Sean Harper talks about culturally relevant engagement practices. And so, again, I think part of this is ensuring that the experiences and the opportunities that we offer to students are culturally relevant and accessible. And so, again, I think oftentimes we have a canon in terms of, like, what acceptable or good experiences and opportunities are, and so I'm an English major, and so I think it's part of what our responsibility is is to expand the canon of what we see as good and acceptable. And so again, there are many ways that, you know, black male students were and are engaged on campus. Marcus R. Langford [00:33:30]: And so some of that is around spending time with folks playing Madden, or some of that is, you know, being connected to each other off campus. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as institutions to recognize the inherent value, those types of things as well, and say and not necessarily get to this point of saying that, well, those are automatically less than joining student government, or that's automatically less than joining a fraternity, or whatever it is that we do. So, yeah, so I I I think those are a couple of things that in my mind were good pieces to consider, in terms of future practice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Marcus, I'm gonna transition us to our theme questions for the season. So I have 3 questions for you, 1 each on the past, present, and future of student affairs. So we're gonna start in the past, and I'd like to know from you, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of? Marcus R. Langford [00:34:25]: Well, I'll actually lean into what we were just talking about. I think one aspect of our past that I think would help us is loosening our overreliance on some of our classic student development theory. So I think student development theory is important. It can be instructive. But what I've also found, and I even remember my experience as a newer professional, I think sometimes unintentionally, what that allows us to do is to put students in boxes, or it creates a scenario where, yeah, we create kind of parameters that are too restrictive for how we think and why we do what we do. And so one of my things about the past is I think it would be helpful if we weren't necessarily so over reliant on some of our classic student affairs theory. That's probably a bit of, did he really say that? But that's what I think. I'm Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:17]: with you on that one, cosigning that opinion. On the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Marcus R. Langford [00:35:24]: I think one of the things that from my perspective is happening that some people might not see it as a net benefit, but I think we have some younger professionals who are leading the forcing, encouraging, challenging us as a profession to ask some hard yet necessary questions about who we are, why we do what we do, and how we do what we do. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoy the work that I do. I thoroughly enjoyed the work that I did as a dean of students, but I think one of the things that I often say it was, I just tend to be one of those folks who don't say that I love my job. I like it a lot. I have a great affinity for it, but I tend to be a person who I reserve my love for things that can love me back in a tangible and concrete way. So I like my job a lot. I have a high affinity for my job, but I love my wife and I love my kids. And so I think presently, there are younger professionals who are having that mentality, and I think that's really forcing us as an institution to reckon with our reliance on, I'll say it, trying to pay people with and through passion. Marcus R. Langford [00:36:34]: Like, passion doesn't pay the bills, to be clear. And so I think presently, yeah, there are newer professionals who are asking some questions that are really, really forcing us as a field to contend with some of our historical practices that probably needed to be reconciled with a long time ago. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: I just wanna say for posterity, I quote you on that constantly. I actually said it yesterday to somebody who was really putting in like a 90 to a 100 hour work week. Actually, not even in student affairs. It was in a private industry field. And he said, hey, you know what? I have a friend who has told me a long time ago, I like your job a lot, but don't love your job because your job will never love you back. And that is something that I've taken from your wisdom years years ago, and I I keep that with me. So thank you for that one. And now it'll be out for the pod audience as well. Marcus R. Langford [00:37:20]: Really quickly, to be clear, you know, I have leaned into that, but that's something that I got from a mentor of mine many, many years ago, Larry Roper. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:28]: Oh, I'm sorry. Of course. It's Larry Roper. Marcus R. Langford [00:37:30]: Of of course. That's a Larry Roper thing. Again, I I think the the important thing is, again, is this is all about systems. And so that's not to say that a system or an institution doesn't necessarily appreciate you or value you, but I think it's important to understand that there's a reality that the way that Larry put it, we were sitting in the library, and he said, Marcus, what you need to realize is if you and I walk out of this library and fall off the face of the earth tomorrow, the lights will still come on and students will still show up. And part of that is because by nature, systems are designed to persist. And he said that's not to say that we don't do good work, because we do. That's not to say that we wouldn't be missed, because in many ways, we would. But systems by design recalibrate to this point of homeostasis. Marcus R. Langford [00:38:17]: And so as a result, it's important that you are mindful and intentional to do what you can to take care of yourself because there's no guarantee that a system will. And so, you know, that's just something that I was very, very fortunate to get early on in my career, and it has been instructive for me over my 25 plus years career in this field. And that doesn't mean that I don't work hard. To be clear, you can ask my wife and she can cosign this. That doesn't mean that I haven't failed at that because in my mind, while I think I've done a very good job of maintaining balance in conversations with my wife and even with my kids, I know that there have been times that I've fallen short of that. That said, I think it's something that I've tried to consistently come back to, and I think that trying to get back to it has benefited me greatly over the course of my time in the field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:08]: I don't know anyone who doesn't love a good Larry Roperism. And if you'd like to learn more from him directly, he was featured on season 1 of our podcast when Corliss was hosting the show. So if you wanna go back and take a listen, I just always appreciate hearing from him. And Marcus, our our final question here on the future is, in an ideal world, what does our field need to be doing to thrive towards our future? Marcus R. Langford [00:39:30]: I think I would say that it's incumbent upon us to ensure that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who students are now and the needs of students right now. You know, again, we do ourselves a disservice when we frame and operationalize things based on who we were as students and, you know, what brought us joy as students. Yes. I I I think those things can, to a certain extent, inform what you do. And I'll say something here, and it may not be popular. But if you came into the field to replicate your experience for other folks, I would challenge you to think about that. It's not about replicating your experience. It's about creating, supporting, and sustaining conditions so that people can have a rich and meaningful experience, whatever that may mean and look like for them. Marcus R. Langford [00:40:27]: So for me, again, I think looking ahead into the future, it's important that our policies, practices, and procedures are reflective of who who our students are now and what their needs are now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:46]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. There's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The deadline for the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is coming up soon. The regular registration deadline closes on November 11, 2024. The Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11, 2024. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:23]: If you are an individual that wants to connect and learn with other higher education professionals to advance student leadership on your own campuses, then the Leadership Educators Institute is the perfect place for you to go. You'll have the opportunity to explore proven leadership theories and innovative curricula that will help you to develop outstanding leaders on your campus. Just a reminder, the regular registration closes on November 11th, and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is happening December 10th through December 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. At this conference, you'll have an opportunity to come together with a diverse group of professional women to drive collective development, drive collective development, home leadership skills, share experiences about how to continue to provide adequate support for all students in a turbulent national landscape and create new personal networks. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:43]: Don't miss out on the learning and experiences offered at this special event. Find out more on the NASPO website. Also coming up on November 18th, there is a member briefing on translating data into practice, 20 24 NASPA top issues, findings and practical applications on campus. The NASPA 20 24 top issues results provide a snapshot of what senior leaders view as key priorities on campuses this year. This member briefing will provide you with an opportunity to get an overview of the top ranked issues, including centering the student voice, expanding access to mental health and well-being supports, facilitating cross campus collaboration, and more. This on top of examining how these trends shape student support services. A key portion of the presentation will highlight the prevalence of issues related to health, safety, and well-being and holistic student support efforts on campus and how institutions are leveraging NASPA's extensive resources and frameworks to strengthen their response to these issues. We hope you can join us for this session on translating NASPA's research findings into actionable strategies to support student success. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:43:56]: This is a free briefing that you need to log in to the learning portal atnaspa.org or go to learning.naspa.org directly to find this member briefing. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:45:30]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:35]: Chris, we always appreciate you informing us on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you so much for another informative NASPA world. And, Marcus, we are now at our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to do this? Marcus R. Langford [00:45:50]: Let's do Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:50]: it. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Marcus R. Langford [00:45:56]: Let's get this party started. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Marcus R. Langford [00:46:00]: A marine biologist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:02]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Marcus R. Langford [00:46:05]: Larry Roper. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:06]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Marcus R. Langford [00:46:08]: I'll say the green book. I can't remember the title of it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:11]: We all know the green book. The student service Larry Roper helped write this one. Marcus R. Langford [00:46:15]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Foundational information. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:18]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Marcus R. Langford [00:46:21]: I just started watching Operation Lioness and Deceptively Good. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:25]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Marcus R. Langford [00:46:28]: A Questlove Supreme. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:29]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Marcus R. Langford [00:46:33]: Personal, I always have to give a shout out to my family. My wife, Mercedes, who loves me in spite of myself. And I also will just wanna give a shout out to the fantastic people that I spent some time working with at Oregon State Oregon State, at the University of Oregon, one of which is Chris Winter. Chris Winter is the person who recruited me to come back to Oregon, and I just thank the world of her. Marcus R. Langford [00:47:01]: And I'll second, cosign that shout out to Kris. She's somebody who I also have been very grateful to call a mentor in my career. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:01]: Alright, Marcus. We have reached the end of the road for our episode today, and it's been wonderful to hear about your research and your journey. If anyone would like to connect with you after the episode airs, how can they find you? Marcus R. Langford [00:47:11]: LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram are all Marcus r Linkford. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:16]: Marcus, again, so lovely to reconnect with you, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Marcus R. Langford [00:47:21]: Thank you, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Good seeing you and catching up today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:47:30]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:08]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Navigating Ethics and Inclusion in Student Affairs with Michelle Boettcher 40:56

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Exploring Institutional Intelligence and Student-Centric Approaches In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton welcomed Dr. Michelle Boettcher , an associate professor at Clemson University, to discuss a range of pertinent topics in higher education. With a rich background spanning nearly 20 years in residence life, various administrative roles, and extensive academic experience, Boettcher brings a wealth of knowledge to the conversation. This episode, delves into the nuances of institutional intelligence, ethical considerations, and the essential focus on student-centric practices in higher education. Bridging Law and Ethics: The Minimum Baseline Dr. Boettcher emphasizes a crucial distinction between meeting legal standards and upholding higher ethical standards. In one illuminating example, she discusses an accessibility issue where a building at Clemson University housed both office space and an honors residential community on the first floor. Although the building was ADA-compliant, the arrangement limited accessibility accommodations to honors students only. Boettcher argues that this situation, while legally acceptable, raised significant ethical concerns. She underscores that legal frameworks should serve as a foundational baseline, and institutions should strive to go beyond mere compliance to embrace more inclusive and ethical practices. Unpacking Institutional Intelligence: A Framework for Change One of the key highlights of the episode is the exploration of "institutional intelligence," a framework co-developed by Boettcher and Salinas in their new book Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach , and is designed to understand campus culture and decision-making comprehensively. This approach integrates three main components: law and ethics, the institutional environment, and decision-making processes. Boettcher elaborates on how this model assists practitioners in navigating institutional culture, underpinning decisions with historical context, and fostering positive institutional change. By employing reporter-like questions—who, what, where, when, why, and how—this method helps gather and analyze vital information, ensuring well-informed decision-making. The Core of Ethical Practice: Human-Centered Policies Boettcher's commitment to student-centric approaches shines through as she emphasizes the importance of keeping students at the center of all institutional efforts. Drawing inspiration from Ruth Bader Ginsburg's dynamic view of law, she illustrates the need for adaptability and responsiveness in student affairs. Boettcher's approach is grounded in balancing control and care, aiming to build more collaborative and engaging environments for students. She also highlights the increasing recognition of student affairs professionals and their critical role in managing various campus scenarios, from everyday operations to crisis situations. Practical Applications and Reflective Practices Throughout the conversation, Boettcher stresses the significance of practical applications and reflective practices. Whether it’s onboarding new staff, managing crises, or implementing change, the institutional intelligence framework serves as a guiding tool. Boettcher also touches on the importance of taking time to pause and reflect, referencing mindfulness practices as a metaphor for the long-term benefits of reflection in professional settings. Merging Law, Ethics, and Practicality This episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field underscores the intricate balance between legal obligations and ethical responsibilities in higher education. Dr. Michelle Boettcher's insights remind us that effective student affairs work hinges on understanding and navigating institutional culture, centering student needs, and committing to continuous reflection and improvement. Her practical, human-centered approach offers valuable guidance for educators and institutions aiming to foster more inclusive and ethical academic environments. Listeners are encouraged to provide feedback, suggest topics, and leave reviews to help SA Voices From the Field continue reaching a wider audience with such impactful discussions. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, we're welcoming doctor Michelle l Batcher, sheherhers. Doctor Batcher studies the overlap of student affairs and higher education practice with policy, law, and ethics. She examines how these areas intersect in the areas of career decisions, diversity, equity, inclusion, access, and belonging, popular culture, residence life, the scholarship of teaching and learning, and work environments. After working for nearly 20 years in residence life and student conduct, she's now an associate professor at Clemson University in the student affairs and higher education graduate program. She has a great job, enjoys life as well as work, and is the luckiest person she knows. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]: Michelle, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:02]: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here and have some conversation today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]: And while we are here primarily to talk about your new ish book, which is Law and Ethics in Academic and Student Affairs Developing an Institutional Intelligence Approach , which you coauthored with doctor Christabel Salinas junior, we always wanna start our shows by getting to know our guests. So can you tell us how you landed in your current seat at Clemson? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:25]: Absolutely. So I'll go back to undergrad. I was an RA. And when I graduated, I said I would never live in a residence hall again. Then I went to grad school, and I worked in housing for almost 20 years. So just don't say never. I did that, worked different places. My undergrad's Iowa State. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:01:47]: My master's was University of Arkansas. I was at the University of Cincinnati. I took a year and well, first after that I was at Ohio University and then I took a year. Because when you work in housing, you don't always have time to think about, do I wanna stay in this work because you're just busy all the time? And I worked at a public radio station for a year in California, which was very fun. And then decided, yeah, higher ed is my thing. I was at Dartmouth for a semester and then moved back to Iowa, which is where I'm from. Went back to Iowa State for a practice interview and was there for 12 years. So I was there for 5 more years in housing and then right before my current position, I was an assistant dean of students and director of student conduct. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:02:35]: And I love that job. It's not for everybody, but I really enjoyed it. While I was doing that, I finished my PhD and started to look at faculty positions. Got the interview at Clemson and came and just really enjoyed the people, both the faculty and the students. And that's what I do now. I just am finishing up 10 years at Clemson, which is mind boggling to me, but I love it. It's the right job for me. It's a good mix of working on my own and then getting to spend really great time with students. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:09]: So, yeah, that's a condensed version of my journey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:11]: I love that you've gone from that practitioner perspective to that kind of researcher perspective and and scholar practitioner because it really, I think, informs your position in your research about how you're going to be approaching challenges and those intractable problems that we're looking at in higher ed. I know a lot of faculty members have gone straight through that faculty track, and a lot of practitioners have never been in that scholar track. So giving those two perspectives some voice, how does that change how you approach your work? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:03:39]: Oh, I love that question. So I think first and foremost, I'm always looking to partner with practitioners. I'm a faculty member. I will always be a practitioner at heart. And I worry sometimes that as faculty, we can get really excited about questions that may not be as pressing and relevant to practitioners as those questions that we can come up with when we're partnering with them. And I'll sort of reference the book in this too. When Chris and I were working on the book, it was really important to us to have practitioner voices in the text. And so almost every critical scenario, we coauthored with practitioners. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:04:22]: And then there are introductory quotes for the functional area chapters and the same thing. We did bring in some other faculty and academic and administrative leaders, but we really wanted this to be rooted in the day to day doing the work kind of thinking. So I love working with practitioners as co authors or supporting them because the people doing that face to face work with students and with incidents on campus, they're the ones who really know what the most important topics are. I very quickly, to my students, became just a faculty member, but at my core, I'm always, I think, gonna be a student affairs practitioner. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: Leading into the book, how did you decide this was the topic for now? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:06]: So I did not set out to write this book. I set out to find this book. I get to teach law and ethics every fall, and it is definitely one of my favorite courses to teach. And I don't know that it's the course every student looks forward to. And my coursework was very much studying case law and understanding how case law and policy inform what we do. And that's important, and that's part of the sort of context section of our textbook. But for me, I wanted, how do you think about it? How do you plan for things? And I also wanted an ethical component. Because while a lot of the decisions we make on a daily basis might have legal implications, it's the ethics. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:05:53]: That's, like, almost every decision we make. There's some sort of ethical piece informing that. So I looked and I just couldn't find the book that I wanted. And Chris and I had worked together on a different book related to hazing. And so I reached out to him and said, hey, I wanna put a proposal together. I know that we write well together. He also had practitioner experiences in areas that I have not worked in. And so I thought we make a pretty good team and he was really good. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:25]: But his first question was, are you sure I'm the person you wanna write this with? And because he said, I haven't done that work. I said, oh, but you have. You know, you you make those decisions. And he had the academic, like, advising and and mentoring experience, and I just haven't had that. And so that's where it came from. I was looking for a book for class, and I couldn't find the book that I wanted. And so then I was like, okay. I think at the time it was like, we'll just write it. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:06:56]: Yeah. So that just it's a bigger project than, just, but but that's how it came to be. And like I said, I love the topic, and I'm really interested in it. And I want it to be approachable for people. So that's where it came from. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:08]: I would also consider myself a bit of a case law nerd and definitely a policy nerd. One of the things that I've been doing with NASPA for many terms now is sitting on the public policy division and kind of looking at the lens of what are we doing in terms of policy information for practitioners, and there's the intersection of law and policy. And ethics is an interesting place to introduce that topic for aspiring student affairs practitioners. Why at Clemson and for your class in particular, do you choose to pair those 2 subjects together? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:07:37]: So that predates me. That's how the course was set up. But I once I got into it and was working with it, like, it's never even entered my mind to separate them. Mhmm. Because I think we it kinda comes down to just because it's legal doesn't always mean that that's the answer to the question. And I'll give an example. My last residence hall that I worked in as a hall director, I was in a a brand new building, which is an experience unto itself. And if you're listening and you've had that experience, you know, everybody thinks everything's gonna work on move in day and it doesn't really. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:08:18]: There are tweaks still to come. Well, one of the things in this particular building, the first floor, half of it was office and meeting space and half of it was a residential community. And it was an honors community, which meant if you had needs around accessibility, unless you were an honors student, you could not live on the 1st floor. The building was up to code in terms of ADA and all of that. There were lots of really good spaces, but not on the 1st floor, again, unless you were an honor student. So during that 1st year, we had conversations about, can we move the honors floor? And our honors community was one where students tend to tended to stay for a couple of years, and students were not excited about moving until we were able to work with the honors program and expand the community. So the upper floors were full floors, so it was twice as much space. So that was kind of how we were able to make that change. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:09:19]: And it didn't mean that every student with an accessibility issue chose to live on the 1st floor because we have one student who was living on the 3rd floor, and he liked his community there. He didn't wanna move down to 1st floor. But for me, ethically, to not even have that as an option in the newest building on campus was problematic. So I think our our ethics and our laws, like the legal standard is the lowest standard. It's not what we aspire to. And so for me, that's where ethics come as comes in is how do we do the legal thing as well as we possibly can do it? Does that answer the question? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:58]: Yeah. I think we say the similar thing with policy, which is the policy is the floor, not the ceiling, meaning that the policy is the baseline expectation of how we are fundamentally providing access for someone or how we are looking at equity in other learning opportunities or what we expect from our students from a behavioral perspective. I think you and I both grew up in the conduct perspective. That conduct code isn't telling us what we can do. It's telling us what we can't do, and we see that all over the place. And so thinking about the book that you wanted to create for your class, you and Chris invented a framework called the institutional intelligence approach. And when we think about this season of our podcast theme, the past, present, and future of student affairs, this institutional intelligence approach to me frames the questions we have been asking in the past, examines the challenges of the present, and gives us a framework to look towards institutional decision making in the future. So can you talk to us a little bit about what is institutional intelligence? Do you and Chris have framed it in your work? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:10:58]: And I love the way that you put that in terms of past, present, and future. I'm working with students right now on a project using it around the job search, which is future oriented. But absolutely, it's really, I think, a pretty simple model. And so institutional intelligence is at the center. And it's always in flux because there's change all the time on campuses. So it's never that you reach the now I know everything about my institution. It's a growing, evolving kind of thing. And the model, it's 3 pieces. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:11:35]: So on on one end, you have law and ethics. And I would put policy in there. I would put procedure can be part of that as well. But that's sort of the guide. Those are the guidelines. And then in terms of the law and policy piece, the ethics is how do we enact that. And so those help to set the stage for what's the culture on campus. The other side is the who, what, where, why, when, how questions. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:12:04]: And using those, the way that we talk about them in the book is as you navigate institutional culture, how can you build your awareness or your intelligence about a given campus? It could work for another organization. It could work in another context, but you can go through. So just thinking of who's your supervisor. Right? So who are they? What is your relationship with them? How long have they been on campus? How long have you been on campus? You just can go through the questions to kind of anticipate or reflect or again to your point in the moment when you're dealing with something, who needs to know about this? A student just shared something with me. Who else needs to be informed? What's our process for communicating that? When do I need to make sure other people are aware of this situation? And so it really is and it was not a starting point for the book. It came up as we were talking through other things, and it's like this could really be helpful. And again, coming from housing and conduct where there is a lot of crisis, you can get so overwhelmed with whoever is right in front of you in the moment that you can miss other things. And so this model is meant to sort of give you a moment to think about it. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:13:21]: And that moment may come it might come during the event, but it might come after the event. So you're using it to look back and reflect on what did we do? What would we wanna do differently? How did we communicate with the community about this? And it might be used to look forward in terms of changes that we might wanna make in case this situation comes up again. But I think a lot of people use at least parts of it intuitively. We want to understand the place where we are or the situations that we're in. And so we just put a little more detail to it and a little more formality and structure to what a lot of us do instinctively, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:01]: Let's back up a minute. And can you define institutional intelligence as you and Chris use it in your book? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:14:06]: Yeah. So the idea of institutional intelligence is really being aware of the culture of the place and understanding how does it work. I would say at the core, institutional intelligence is knowing your place in the larger picture. And it's understanding, again, policy history is really important. When I teach law and ethics, I talk about the idea of the random campus policy. Every campus has this weird policy that you've never heard of anywhere else. It's almost always the result of a thing that happened, right? There's a story behind those and sometimes we can get to those stories and other times It's so far gone that the story is lost, but the policy remains So it's about awareness. It's about just understanding how things work in an effort to understand how to make things happen, how to create change, or how to sort of engage in ongoing improvement, things like that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:10]: And when we move into the framework that the 2 of you have developed, you mentioned that you're looking at what I would call the reporter questions. Maybe when we first learned in early schooling years how to interview someone or how to ask a question or how to write an article for something, we're looking at that who, what, where, when, why, how, the 5 w's plus how questions. Tell us about how you arrived at these questions, which are well known in American journalistic culture, but transitioning them into a higher ed context. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:15:39]: It's hard not to think of these questions because, like you said, they're just so embedded. We use them, like you said, in reporting. We use them in writing. We use them in understanding, and everybody kind of knows them. And so I think that was part of the appeal. You know, we weren't looking to make something that was unapproachable because the harder it is to understand, the less utility it has. And so using them in our context, it really is just a little bit of a reframe. In a way, a reporter uses them to gather information for the story, which is their work. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:16]: In our thinking, we use them to gather information for student affairs work. So asking who within the context of higher ed. We grouped why, when, and how together because those are a little bit more about action. Why is sort of the bridge. Right? It's the bridge between what's happening, what should happen, and how to make it happen, and when and how is putting it into it being whatever it might be. It could be a policy. It could be a crisis response. It could be a supervision strategy. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:16:53]: But those are more the task things and why bridges between the information gathering and the putting into action. And it's again, the comfort that I think a lot of people have with it just made it very appealing. We found ourselves asking those questions as we were building the book and especially as we were writing the critical scenarios. They just kept coming up and over and over again. And so that was sort of the seed that grew into the model. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:22]: You've already mentioned that you're using this model with your current students in the job search in terms of application. You've put some examples in the book around kind of deconstructing university responses to freedom of expression components. How would you envision a practitioner taking this model and applying it to their work? And when does that happen? And what do you hope the outcomes will be? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:17:42]: So I'm a big fan of the model. I think that there is utility for it in so many different ways. The first thing that comes to mind for me is onboarding. Helping someone understand and I would say this doesn't have to be a person new to an institution, but particularly in that case, it could be really helpful. But it could be I'm moving to a new functional area on the same campus. It could be I'm getting a new supervisor. There are lots of different ways, but it is a great tool for adaptation and acclimation. So navigating change or planning to navigate change for implementation as we're doing this and as we're going through whatever the process might be. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:18:28]: I tend toward crisis just because my work experience involve that a lot, but it could be rolling out a new mission statement. Who do we want involved? Who should have input? How do we wanna build the process to move forward? When do we wanna do this? When does it make sense? I also think a really valuable and I would say based on my own experience. So this is, anecdotal, not research driven. But where we miss the opportunity to learn the most is in that reflective stage. We're so busy and there are so many things happening all the time. We don't always carve out time to reflect after. And again, it could be after a crisis, but it could be after, say, you're moving to a cluster higher model in your area. Reflecting on what worked, what didn't, who's involved in that reflection, when do we do it? Do you do it right away? Do you wait 6 months? Do you do it more than once? So I think it works in really the big aspects. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:19:34]: So the creation, ideation, visualization stages of things. It works in supervision, group dynamics, team development sorts of things, and it works in looking ahead and planning, anticipating. It's just an easy model that has pieces that fit into all of the different sorts of activities and conversations and planning that we do and beyond higher ed. But I'm focused on higher ed because that's where I wanna be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:07]: In the book, there is a table that I like called the ultimate cheat sheet for critical thinking using this model. And so we've talked about kind of the big buckets of the who, what, where, when, why, how. But what I like about the cheat sheet is that it breaks down into more specific subquestions that could be used. I'm just gonna share some of them with our listeners. So if you wanna go pick up the book, you can kind of understand a little bit more about what these buckets might represent in practice. So in the who or whom question, you might ask, who made a decision or decided about the situation, or has anyone else faced the situation? In the what bucket, we might have what are the strengths and weaknesses of those who were involved or effective, or what's another perspective or alternative to the situation in the way that it was managed. In the where, we're looking at things like where's the most need for a specific resource or support in the situation, or, where can we get more information is a is a great question we should always be asking. In the when we have, when did it occur, when's the best time to act? And That's a great reflection question for practitioners who are looking to implement change or even make a response to something that could have been a crisis on your campus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: In the why, we have why is this situation a problem or a challenge? And I don't think we stopped to ask that question a lot. The why is this happening, why now? Because as responders in student affairs, we're often looking at, okay, what should we be doing? And I think the impetus for the why question can help us actually solve the problem because we might be getting to the root a little differently. And then finally, in the how bucket, how will we approach this situation safely? How does this response or decision harm us or others? So I think it just gives us a nice framing of, hey, let's pause. And one thing we don't do in student affairs a lot is pause. Yeah. So thank you for giving us some of those questions that I think you're right. We're already doing, but we don't necessarily put in one place. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:21:58]: And the idea of the pause, I'm so glad that you brought that up. There's a story that I like about this man and he goes to a teacher and asks, I'm really busy, but I know I need to meditate. How long do I need to meditate? And the teacher says, about an hour every day. And the man says, I don't have that kind of time. I can't do it for an hour every day. And the teacher says, okay. Then 2 hours a day. And I think about that in terms of what you were just sharing because that pause, it does take away time in the moment, but the time that it saves down the road and the clarity that it can bring, it's an investment forward. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:22:37]: And, yeah, it takes some time in the moment. But if you don't reflect, you end up doing the same things over and over again that may or may not be in the best interest, not only of the students involved or the faculty or staff involved, but in terms of your own team and your own I don't wanna say productivity, but your own rootedness in the work. Because more committed and energized and understanding ways instead of that's just the way that it is. Lora Phelps [00:23:13]: What are the other major takeaways that you're hoping readers of the book will keep with them? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:23:18]: So I will share that one of the things and Chris and I definitely wanna acknowledge doctors Mimi Benjamin and Jody Joseph Banger who worked with us and supported us through the development and the submission of the book. One of the things for me is I use humor a lot, and I use it in my teaching. And I wanted this to be as enjoyable as this kind of a book can be. So there is some humor in there. Chris came up with this great concept of the onion. And to understand what issues are, you have to get to the core of the onion and an onion is layered. And I think we even have in there sometimes it will make you cry a little bit. But we tried to use examples like that. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:05]: You know, we use real life examples. And again, the partnering with practitioners was really important to us. But there are ways to make scholarship approachable and enjoyable. And there are also scholars who write and use language that creates barriers and hierarchy. And we did not wanna do that. We really wanted this in the hands of practitioners, people using it in classes, and providing students a way of engaging with what can be really challenging. The issues that our students and our higher education communities are facing are heavy, and they're challenging. And there can be joy, and there can be laughter in the work as well. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:24:48]: So I think that's one of the things I'm most proud about. Again, thanks to Mimi and Jody. There were a few things in there that they're like, yeah. It's funny, but I don't think you really want this in the book. And I would then go to Chris and say, it is funny. And he would say, yeah, but I think they're right. So it's, I think, an appropriate amount of humor. But I do think that in the end, we're human beings, and we're navigating our lives and building our stories. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:25:15]: And for me, humor and love go hand in hand. And so that's part of what underscores the book is I hope that people receive it as a book of care, not as a directions or I don't want it to be rigid because policy is really not rigid. It can look that way on paper, but when it comes to implementation and meaning making, it is more malleable. And if we don't bring care, we can shape it in ways that do harm rather than in ways that ultimately it should be something that supports healthy communities and places where people can thrive and grow. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:56]: Michelle, we're gonna transition into our theme questions for the season. So first, I'm going to talk to you about the past, which is what's one component of the history of student affairs that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:11]: So I would say something that we should carry forward is centering students. And I say that because while I think for the most part we do that, where we are right now, and one of my go to people or one of the people I admire very, very much is justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And she talked about law as a pendulum. And it's not static. It's always in motion. And sometimes it's a little more where we want it to be, and sometimes it's a little more where we would rather it not be. And there are people at either ends of that. And so we're all comfortable at times, and we're all uncomfortable at times. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:26:55]: And so I say centering students moving forward because we are in, I feel like right now, a place where I worry that we are being pushed to center law, policy, and politics rather than centering students. And this is not the first time we've been here. I know it for me, it can feel very scary at times. But if you look back over the history of higher education, this is common and it's where the pendulum is in the moment. I want us to carry that forward and I don't really have a fear that we won't. I think the people who are drawn to this work are drawn to this work because of the experiences they had, the experiences they didn't have, and what they want to create for other people as they're going through their higher ed experiences. So we can get pressured or it can get easy to get caught up in other things. But in student affairs, if at some point in whatever our process is, we're asking, is this what's best for students? I think we're gonna be okay. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:01]: And sometimes we have to compromise on that a little bit because things we don't always get to be the boss of all the decisions. But that's something that I would say, while it originally probably started over controlling students, the way that this work has emerged has really been about caring for students more than controlling. But again, we go back and forth on this and but that's something I would really like for us to hold on to. And I'm happy and proud to say I know lots of people who are doing exactly that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:31]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:28:35]: I think that student affairs is I don't know if rising in prestige is the right way to say it, but I think because of different things that have happened and are happening, I think people understand we need student affairs because a lot of times college presidents, particularly at 4 year institutions, come from the faculty route or more and more they're coming from a business route. And while those leaders bring certain strengths, they don't bring the strengths of dealing with student behavior. And stop it is generally not gonna work with students. And so I think that the role of divisions of student affairs and the functional areas that are really student facing, I think people are understanding we need people with that kind of expertise to navigate not just when things go poorly, but when things go well. We need to understand and I'll use just because it just happened when the Vanderbilt football victory. They're walking the goalpost 3 miles to the river. Well, sure, there's law enforcement involved with that. There's policy and things like that. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:29:57]: But in terms of communicating to students and balancing the celebration with the responsibility, we're the ones who know how to do that. I worked for a vice president at one point and his philosophy was we do the things other people don't wanna do. Well, I think that's true to an extent. I think now people are understanding we do the things other people can't do. And so it's faculty matter, administrators and leaders matter, but student affairs people, they're the ones who really are dealing with some of those really big issues, whether it's the recent hurricanes on campus or celebrations or whatever it might be. So and I can be naive, and maybe that's not exactly true. But I see more examples of consultation rather than direction from the top down in terms of working with student affairs practitioners. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:51]: And looking towards the future in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:30:57]: We have got to tell the story of what we do And whether that's assessment, whether that is more practitioners in public media, there's the joke of you can't really explain what student affairs is. That's true. It's a weird kind of thing that most people don't understand, but you can tell the stories of specific things that we have done and the way that we make a difference. And we do that in partnership with students, but any chance that someone has to share information about what we're doing and the difference that we make, that's just gotta continue. And I'm I'm a storyteller at heart, so there are lots of different ways to do that. Could be being on a podcast. It could be writing for a publication. It's great to do things at conferences. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:31:46]: It's important to do that. And could you do something like that for your city council? Could you do something like that for maybe even local schools talking about transition. And we do that in the practice of the function of our work. But the more that we can get out and tell the stories of how we make a difference. And it's not just about preserving roles on campus, but it's really about letting families and students and communities know about the resources that we have. It always hurts to find out a student has been struggling for weeks or months when we have the people, the places and the things that could have helped them through whatever it is they're navigating. But that storytelling, I just can't stress it enough. It's really essential and we've all got the stories. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:32:36]: We don't have to come up with things. We all carry those with us every day. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:40]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:46]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. We all know that leadership is an integral competency for our profession. The leadership development of students is an important and ongoing process that requires commitment from both students and staff. Student affairs professionals and other university administrators play an essential role in coordinating, shaping and evaluating the leadership development of students by designing leadership courses and programs, creating co curricular opportunities and utilizing emerging technologies. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]: The Leadership Educators Institute has a rich history of convening professionals committed to leadership development for nearly 17 years. This Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics. As mentioned, the conference is from December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Registration is still open with regular registration deadline coming on November 11th. Get more information on the NASPA website. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up also in December, December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. The Women's Leadership Institute is the premier professional development program for women who aspire to be senior leaders in higher education. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:35]: Participants include women from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. You can be a part of a special program for women seeking to become leaders in higher education administration and student affairs. This institute is co produced by several higher education associations and is a unique program that will bring together administrators from across campus functions to help you hone your leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment, develop a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture, share experiences with others about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality and create new personal networks and networking skills to better tap the higher education community. Registration is still open and you can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 Red Ribbon Week Campus Video PSA Contest is currently open. This annual contest aims to promote the importance of living a drug free lifestyle. Just recently, NASPA announced that through the campus drug prevention dot gov website, your campus can submit a campus video PSA to promote the importance of preventing illicit drug use and legal drug misuse among college students. If your campus wishes to do this, you would create a 30 to 60 second video PSA showcasing your campus' commitment to a healthy drug free lifestyle. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:05]: You can submit your entries until November 4th and there's some great prizes for the winners, including a first prize of $5,000 to to support the winning campuses, the winning campuses efforts to prevent drug misuse among their students and a recognition plaque. Beyond this, it's a great opportunity to be able to bring your whole campus community together for a common goal. Find out more at campus drugprevention dot gov. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:27]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:55]: Chris, thank you again for all of the work that you do to keep us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Michelle, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Ready to rock? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:08]: I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:08]: Okay. Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:13]: It would be I don't know that this puts me in a positive light, but I love Apex Predator from the Mean Girls soundtrack. So I would go with that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:22]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:26]: A writer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:26]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:29]: Frank Robinson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:32]: Oh, well, my book. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:35]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:38]: I am watching right now the Gotham series, which I haven't decided if I like it or not, but I love Batman. So that's what I'm watching. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:47]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:51]: Criminal. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:51]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:38:55]: Yes. Absolutely. Shout out to Chris Salinas. Thank you for everything. And to my partner, Leslie, who endured the process of me writing the book as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:05]: Like a second dissertation all over again. Exactly. Well, Michelle, it's been wonderful to get to know you today and learn more about your and Chris's work on institutional intelligence. If anyone would like to follow-up with you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:17]: Yeah. So the best way to reach me is through email. I my email is my to do list, and I'm very good at keeping up with that. That's m as in Michelle, and then the first part of my last name, boettc@clemson.edu Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:35]: dotedu. Michelle, thank you so much for sharing your voice and your institutional intelligence with us today. Dr. Michelle Boettcher [00:39:42]: Jill, thank you for the invitation. This has really been a pleasure, and you have a great demeanor. You made this very easy and very pleasant, and all the best moving forward. But thank you again for your time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:57]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:39]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan- Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Storytelling and Diversity: Mike Segawa on Enhancing Student Affairs and Higher Education 46:36

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In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Mike Segawa, an esteemed student affairs professional with over 40 years of experience, to delve into the evolving landscape of student affairs. Mike shares his invaluable insights on the importance of storytelling, professional development, and the challenges facing the profession today. The Power of Storytelling in Higher Education Storytelling holds a unique place in academia, especially within student affairs. Mike Segawa underscores the value of storytelling not just for engaging students but also for communicating effectively with cabinet members, board members, alumni, and presidents. Particularly in the Pacific Northwest and among indigenous populations, storytelling is a revered cultural tradition. It serves as an entertaining and less threatening way to convey significant impacts and digest information. Through stories, professionals can humanize data and present compelling narratives that illustrate the importance of their work. Grad Prep Programs: A Traditional Path with Modern Challenges Mike reflects on the traditional career trajectory in student affairs, from resident advisor (RA) to vice president. However, he acknowledges that this path is becoming less common, as many professionals now enter the field from diverse backgrounds. Mike's own graduate program was extensive, covering legal issues, counseling, diversity, and history. Today’s programs, constrained by shorter durations, struggle to fully prepare students for the complexities of modern student affairs roles. This gap necessitates enhanced and ongoing professional development. Professional Development: Beyond Conferences Practical training such as graduate assistantships (GAships), internships, and practicum experiences are crucial but vary greatly in quality. According to Mike, professional development should extend beyond national conferences. Local and regional opportunities, as well as diverse and structured activities, are vital for continuous growth. Mike stresses the need for purposeful professional development plans that are aligned with individual career aspirations and institutional goals. Sustaining a Career in Student Affairs: Combatting Burnout The discussion also touches on the increasing burnout among student affairs professionals, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Jill Creighton notes that the complexity of roles has grown, encompassing more legal and regulatory challenges. Mike advises maintaining strong personal relationships and taking regular vacations as essential strategies for resilience. He emphasizes that supervisors must model this behavior to set the right expectations for work-life balance within their teams. The Dual-Edged Sword of Technology Technology has fundamentally changed how students interact with each other and with institutions. While beneficial, it also presents challenges, particularly through social media, which can sometimes cause harm. Mike highlights the importance of ensuring a balanced and positive experience for students, fostering both intellectual development and joy during their collegiate years. Looking Ahead: Advocacy and Equity Mike Segawa advocates for a proactive approach in engaging with public entities like legislators and civic leaders. By sharing data-driven stories, student affairs professionals can better demonstrate their contributions to education and gain support. He also discusses the ongoing challenge of promoting diversity and inclusion, noting the need to constantly justify these efforts in an increasingly scrutinized public and political environment. The Enduring Impact of Student Affairs Mike Segawa's insights highlight the critical role of storytelling, the necessity of comprehensive professional development, and the enduring challenges faced by student affairs professionals. His advice and reflections serve as a guiding light for current and future practitioners, emphasizing the importance of balancing work and life, leveraging technology wisely, and advocating for equity and inclusion in higher education. For more insights and to hear the full conversation, tune into NASPA's SA Voices From the Field , where we explore the multifaceted world of student affairs and the voices shaping its future. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA voices, we are honored to welcome Mike Segawa. Mike served as an SSAO for over 16 years at the University of Puget Sound, Pitzer College, and the Evergreen State College. During those times, his staff was responsible for a variety of student services offices, including dean of students, counseling and health, housing and res life, career services, student activities, multicultural support services, Greek life, orientation, outdoor programs, student conduct, access services, and recreation and athletics. The majority of his 40 year career was spent in residence life at Evergreen, the University of Washington, and then Central Missouri State University. And while Warrensburg, Missouri was not his favorite place to live, he did meet his wife of 42 years there when both he and Mary were on the residence life staff there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: Mike has served many of our professional associations, including NASPA, ACPA, and Akuhoai. While with NASPA, he served in a variety of roles, including president, regional vice president, conference chair for Chicago in 2001, and the Orlando joint conference with ACPA in 2007, and 10 years on the national board of directors. His most enjoyable role, though, was as the coordinator of the SERVE Academy. He's also been the host for the Small College and University Institute, a number of SSAO institutes, and the region 5 SSAO retreat. He proudly served for 12 years on the region 5 advisory board. Mike has been honored with the 2022 distinguished pillar of the profession award, the Henry g outstanding mentoring award from the APIKC, the 2007 pillar of the profession, the Doris Machi Coaching breaking the glass ceiling award, and the region 5 Turner award. Now fully engaged in active retirement life, he continues to enjoy his fanaticism for the Seattle Mariners baseball team, fantasy baseball, running, traveling with his wife, Mary, spending time with their 2 kids and their families who live in Seattle and Virginia, and reading The Chronicle of Higher Education for purely entertainment. Mike, we're so glad to have you on SA Voices. Mike Segawa [00:02:21]: Jill, thank you. I'm looking forward to this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:23]: And Mike, you and I have been connecting at annual conference for, I think, probably several years at this point. You're a pillar of that, the AAPI community for NASPA, but also a distinguished pillar of the profession. And you've just had just an illustrious and very complex career. So I'm looking forward to talking to you today about the longevity of being a student affairs professional and kinda what you've seen. And normally, we start our episodes off by asking our guests how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is retired life. So without kind of going too deep back into the bio a little bit, can you tell us about your journey through the profession? Mike Segawa [00:03:02]: Oh, it was 40 years, Jill, and it never felt like it. I loved every step of the journey. And, actually, you know, a lot of folks, especially when I was a senior student affairs officer, asked what was your favorite job? And they assumed it was being a vice president. And instead, I went the opposite direction. I said, actually, my favorite job was being an RA. And yeah. Absolutely. I've said that in front of RAs. Mike Segawa [00:03:24]: Every time I greeted them for training, I've said it in front of parents and students. Being an RA was the best job I ever had. So started there, but I loved every job that I had after that, whether it was as a hall director or director of housing or vice president or whatever. I loved every job, so it was a wonderful 40 year career. But I knew it was time to leave when, staff would come to me and said, we need a new strategic plan. And I said, yeah. You're right. I don't wanna do that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:54]: Sounds like a lot of work. Right? Mike Segawa [00:03:55]: Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:56]: So it it sounds like what drove you into student affairs is that kind of semi traditional RA path. What sparked joy for you as an RA that made you wanna launch into the career? Mike Segawa [00:04:08]: It was the basis of my happiness throughout my whole career, and that was the individual students. You know, as we get deeper into the career and you move up the ladder, the chance for contact with individual students gets harder to do, but I always manage to find ways to do it. And when I think back to my RA years, you know, when I needed a study break, all I had to do was walk outside my room and walk down the hallway, and there were always gonna be residents there that I could talk with and just find time to have fun with. Got harder when you became a vice president or dean of students. You know, this when you would walk up to a student, they go, did I do something wrong? But that was it. It was that individual student contact that, even to this day, is the joy of the work. Because every few months or even actually more than few months during a month, on a monthly basis, I'll have some former student reach out or some former staff member reach out, and we'll have a conversation whether by email or phone or text or whatever. And frankly, those are the highlights of the week, man. Mike Segawa [00:05:11]: They still are, even now being retired for about 3 years. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:14]: MEWI recently won a mentorship award, the Henry G, mentorship award through the APIKC. And so I think that really speaks to your willingness to give to professionals even though you're no longer on a college campus day to day. Mike Segawa [00:05:27]: Yeah. And, you know, the mentorship piece is a fascinating dynamic to me because stereotypically, people see that almost as a one way street that the mentor is providing support service to the mentee. But actually, especially when I was practicing, I got more out of that interaction than I felt the mentee was getting. Because I was still learning so much about what was going on in the lives of our students or our staff members or employees or whomever that, gave me an insight that when you're especially sitting in what I call the big chair, people don't necessarily volunteer that to you. And so having those opportunities to engage colleagues in that way was very much a two way street. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]: I'll give a shout out to another NASPA pillar, Doctor. Mary Jo Gonzales, who's a a mentor of mine as well. And she would talk often about, you know, needing to find truth tellers when you're sitting in the big chair, and being able to, have those around you who who you can trust to tell you the truth even if the truth is hard. Mike Segawa [00:06:28]: Yeah. And, you know, and the truth can be hard, and it can be hard to hear it sometimes. You know, and some of us are better at that than others. And so that's something I think that requires usually practice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:39]: So let's pop back to that RA space for just a minute because you came into the student affairs profession at a time when the literature, especially around student development, was still pretty focused on a particular population. And so I'm just gonna name that. We know most of our original student development theory work was focused on white cisgendered men. And so we know that the literature has evolved since then. But knowing what you were getting into in the state of the field at the time, what do you see as things that were important for you as a as a learning space? And what did you see as things where you were still filling in the gaps of your own knowledge and how you were working with students? Mike Segawa [00:07:17]: As folks could see from my bio, I did my undergraduate work at UC Irvine, and that was way back in 1975 to 79. One of my first supervisors as an RA was an Asian American woman. Little did I know how unique and rare that would be for me in my career to have an Asian American woman be a supervisor. However, it was so important. What I learned from her by watching her, by having her as a role model, conversations and all that, that was hugely important to me as I reflect, you know, on the whole arc of my career. And so it it was just reinforcement for the importance of having a diverse workforce, including in student affairs, and that we're still a ways away from it. So that was hugely important to me, who I was working with, who my supervisors were. And I had the advantage that throughout my career, I had folks from diverse backgrounds who were supervisors. Mike Segawa [00:08:13]: But again, at the time, I didn't really appreciate it. They were just my supervisor. They were Rob. They were Charlene. They were Jim. They were the folks that yes. They're my supervisor. But their identities, in their own ways, they role modeled how to do that really well. Mike Segawa [00:08:29]: And you know, I think the common denominator for those that I most enjoyed working with in that role was their own self of sense of self confidence and self worth. And so that's something that I didn't fully appreciate at the time. And I think as we're on the journey, you may not fully appreciate the presence of some of those folks in your career. They could be supervisors. They could be peers. They could be students that you're working with who are student leaders. But surrounding yourself with folks who are different from you in so many ways really enriches the career, makes it more fun, but also enhances your skill set in a way that the research can't do, the books can't do, the lectures can't do. It's only in that interaction personally, 1 on 1 especially over an extended period, that I think you get the most advantage of having diverse voices around you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: And in thinking about how diversity has evolved and DEIB has changed from when you entered the field to now, can you help us understand how that evolution felt as you were moving through it? Because we can look at it from a retrospective and say, yes, we're in a different place now, but we also know that happens incrementally. Mike Segawa [00:09:35]: Yeah. We are at a different place now. Maybe I'll start there because the place we are now, literally today, honestly, I think is so much harder than where we were 40 years ago when I first started the work. The challenges that we are facing in the way of social justice and equity, especially external to the academy, is not some place I anticipated us having to go. And I've talked with a lot of my colleagues who are still in the field, especially senior officers, and I shared with them that I never imagined 10 or 20 years ago that we would have to be engaged in these kinds of conversations, justifying what I would consider to be some of the pillars of our profession, some of the core tenants of our profession, the things that almost all of us grew up with, believing in strongly and still believe in, that we would have to justify it in the ways that I am seeing, especially at some of our flagship institutions that are just more visible to the public and to politicians and to other folks. So I'll start there. Like I said, that I think today's work in the way of social justice and equity inclusion is harder than it was 40 years ago. But the evolution of it on so many levels is gratifying. Mike Segawa [00:10:43]: We're talking about things now that are so much further ahead of where we were 40 years ago. 40 years ago, it was very much a representation issue. It was a numbers issue that we saw or the lack thereof. Especially in student affairs, I'm proud of the job that we've done in terms of diversifying our own workforce, but we still have a ways to go with that. Whether it's with indigenous populations or Asian American, Asian populations, Southeast Asian populations, Hispanic, Latino, Latinx. We've got a ways to go still with that. But it's gratifying to see that we're beyond simply needing to get numbers in the door. And I think we've become, inside the the academy and especially student affairs, we've become better sophisticated about the students that we're dealing with and each other as peers and colleagues. Mike Segawa [00:11:34]: So that's progress. But we're being challenged now in a way, like I said, I didn't see this coming. And it's really frustrating to me that that's now a critical part of the work. Because having to do that kind of work that many of you are doing in defending the work means that's a diversion from being able to deliver day to day service to students or to our institutions. Like I said, it's a frustrating dynamic for me to watch. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:56]: Do you have any advice for those of us that are in those weeds? Mike Segawa [00:12:00]: Well, with student affairs and actually with higher education in general, we generally don't get to shape the agenda socially, even when it has to do with us in terms of higher education and our students. So we do have to be reactive to it. And in this case, I don't see this dynamic going away where having to justify the work around equity and inclusion. It's gonna be on our radar screen, and it's gonna be foisted upon us as an agenda item for a while. So it's not gonna do us any good to try and avoid it or to downplay it or to pooh pooh it or to just dismiss it as these are people who just don't know or understand or their motives are not pure in why they're challenging it. So having said that, I think that we in student affairs and especially some of our senior officers and our equity inclusion officers, we're gonna have to get more comfortable and more engaged in what I call the public square conversations. We're gonna have to be engaged in those conversations outside of the academy, outside of our ivy covered walls, and engage it and bring our perspective and data assessment to it to inform the conversation. And we're not always gonna be successful with that, and it's not always gonna be heard. Mike Segawa [00:13:17]: But we need to have the opportunity to at least put it out there, like I said, in the public square. And we're not used to that. You know, our graduate programs don't teach us or train us for that. Our professional training doesn't do that. I don't know that we've seen very many, if any, programs at NASPA or ACP or anywhere else on this kind of thing. But we're gonna need to engage our publics in a way that we have not had to do historically around here. I think we can do it. I know we can do it. Mike Segawa [00:13:43]: But this is a different direction that we're gonna have to go, because I think we need to be more assertive about sharing who we are, what we do, and what it accomplishes on behalf of our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:56]: I think that's true both in and outside of the academy. One of the things I've always talked about in senior leadership roles is how student affairs tells its story to the rest of the campus community and the stakeholders. Because I think a lot of student affairs professionals, and I've felt this way in my career as well, kind of always feel like the underdog a little bit that we're constantly scrapping to prove that we are deserving of resources or time, energy, what have you. And then we have on the other side, these beautiful student stories of students who would not have persisted without the student services that are coming out through student affairs, whether that be things like camp programs or student involvement or TRIO or I can go on and on and on about the list of whatever that might look like. But we also don't do a good job of telling that story even to our academic affairs partners sometimes. So it's wise advice that you're sharing. Mike Segawa [00:14:46]: Joe, what you just said is another one of my hopes for us as a profession, and that is we do become better storytellers, which means we're not lecturing people. We're not preaching to people. We're sharing the stories, especially of our students. And a lot of times, we let the student voices sing that out. That's absolutely perfect and most effective. But we will be in places that our students will not be. And so being able to tell those stories of our students. And I remember many times saying to my staff, I need these stories in my hip pockets. Mike Segawa [00:15:17]: Because as a senior officer, I wasn't always privy to those stories. But my director of student activities was, my director of orientation was, my resident directors were. So I was always searching for those stories that I could use, whether it was with cabinet members, board members, alumni. Because during most of my time, I was focused inwardly on those stories to within the academy. I didn't have to talk very much with legislators and folks outside the academy as I was just talking about, but I still needed those stories. And I needed those stories to pass on to my president because I wanted my president to have those stories in his or her hip pocket to be able to pull out. So storytelling has a proud tradition in so many of our cultures, you know. And especially for someone like me being in the Pacific Northwest, our indigenous populations have the most wonderful stories and develop the most wonderful art around those stories. Mike Segawa [00:16:13]: So, yeah, it is hugely critical, but storytelling is a much more fun way to convey how we have impact and is an easier way for folks to digest what we are saying and what we're trying to convey. And I think it's less threatening, and it's more entertaining. So, yeah, I do think we need to become better storytellers inside the academy, as you said, Joe. But, you know, as I said earlier, it's becoming increasingly important outside the academy now to be able to tell those stories and to equip others to tell those stories. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:45]: You mentioned grad prep programs as a place where there's space for evolution and how we're preparing student affairs professionals. I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about what your grad prep was like when you were getting your master's degree in student affairs, what you're seeing now, and where you think we should be going. Mike Segawa [00:17:02]: Wow. That's a long term memory recall for me. Although it doesn't seem like that long ago, it it really doesn't. And I think that's part of the joy of the journey has been. In student affairs, for probably the longest time, and certainly the last 25, 30 years, we have often talked about an arc of a career in student affairs starting with the grad prep program or even earlier than that as an undergraduate, you were a student leader. And usually that meant you were an RA, and then you went to graduate school and you got your master's degree, and then you got into the field. Usually, it was a residence life type position, and then you just moved up the chain. You moved up your career ladder. Mike Segawa [00:17:42]: And that was the stereotypical arc that led you to a director position, an assistant dean, an associate dean, associate vice president, and then you got to sit in the big chair as the vice president. And that was a traditional career arc. You know, as I've gone through this, actually, very few of us did that traditional career arc from RA to vice president. And I say that as one of the few unicorns that did that. I started as an RA, and I ended up as a vice president. But, you know, most of my colleagues, most of my peers, that wasn't their career arc. We came from all different directions in terms of our journey to eventually becoming a senior officer. So when I think about my grad program and what we did, yes, it was really a very traditional program in that sense of how we would describe it. Mike Segawa [00:18:31]: It included programs like legal issues. It had a counseling component. It did have a diversity component to it, history. So it very much was traditional, which was a great grounding for me 40, 45 years ago. But the conversations that I had I've had with my our faculty colleagues in these programs, especially over the last 5 to 7 years of my career, pointed out to me how hard it is on our grad prep programs today to prepare our colleagues for this work because there really isn't any way in a usual 2 year master's program to really prepare you for the day to day work that you're gonna now be entering because it's so much harder, so much more complicated, so much more complex than the world I entered over 40 years ago. And a 2 year grad program can't possibly touch on all of the topics that a supervisor would say we need you to get. And so that is the huge challenge to our grad prep programs and to our students coming through those programs now. There really needs to be acknowledgment. Mike Segawa [00:19:35]: The 2 year master's program, if a person chooses to come that route into the field, can only be the first step in your professional development and preparation for this incredibly challenging but rewarding work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:47]: And it's interesting because one of the things I've been hearing about the grad prep spaces is that there's some practical elements that we expect that are taught through, GAships or internships, practicum experiences. And that's uneven training ground depending on where a grad student is placed, particularly in navigating sticky political situations on campuses. And those are things sometimes that we can only learn through experience and sometimes stepping right in it in that experience. Mike Segawa [00:20:18]: Yeah. Stepping right in it is a great way to learn. You just hope you don't step into it too often. One of the things that, again, towards the end of my career, I was really paying more attention to both on my own campuses, but as a profession. We just have to get better at providing our staff with professional development options and opportunities. And to be more purposeful, have them be more purposeful about them, help them to be more purposeful about it, be more structured about it, and to look for the opportunities and to create the opportunities that aren't just going to NASPA, National. Some of our younger colleagues, I think, have this vision of, I need to go to the national conference. That is the professional development opportunity. Mike Segawa [00:21:05]: That's the place to be seen. That's the place to get the jobs. And all of that, to some degree, has some truth to it. But for me, professional development over the course of your career should be a diversity of opportunities that can be delivered on your own campus, locally, within your community, regionally, nationally, and as you know better than I do, Joe, internationally. So we, as supervisors, just need to get our folks to be more purposeful and structured about their own career development arc because it's gonna it's even more important now than it was 30 or 40 years ago. The skills and preparation and experience that our folks need to be successful and to navigate these really challenging waters is so critical. You are not prepared for the work coming out of the master's program alone. And you're not prepared for the work just by going to conference programs over the course of a few years. Mike Segawa [00:22:02]: You're gonna have to develop your skills and experiences in ways that are just very sophisticated, very purposeful, and very diverse. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:11]: And those skill sets may not actually be all that different than the ones that you needed when you started your career, but the the nuance around them might have changed for sure. Mike Segawa [00:22:19]: Yeah. And what to me is even more critical now than it was to me 40 years ago, 45 years ago, is how to sustain yourself in the work. That was really never a question for me and most of my peers for most of our career. And when I say how do we sustain ourselves, it's can I do this work for another 5 years? Can I do this work for another 10 years? Can I do this work for another 25 years? That was never really crossing our minds. There would be bad days or bad weeks where we go, maybe I should go do something else. But those are more fleeting thoughts, and they never stuck. Today, I mean, especially over the last 5 to 7 years, I've had so many conversations with folks at all places in their professional journey that are asking themselves that question. They're not necessarily sharing that with others and especially not sharing it with supervisors. Mike Segawa [00:23:09]: It was fascinating to me when I would be at NASPA having these kinds of coffee vine conversations or just sitting somewhere quietly on with these topics in mind. And I would ask folks, can you see yourself doing this work for another 15 years? Joe, I and I had dozens of those over the course of last few years. I didn't run into a single person who immediately said, yeah. Absolutely. No problem. I can easily do it. Every single one of them said paused and said, I haven't really told anybody that, but I've thought about it. Can I do this for another x amount of years? And usually it was more than 5. Mike Segawa [00:23:43]: You know, those of us who are close to retirement, it's like, yeah, we can suck it up and do it. But those who are at mid level positions or entry level positions or whatever, asking them that question was really, on some level, heartbreaking to hear their response because they didn't know if they could do this work for a lifetime of work. And that's hard to hear, but it's also important to hear because supervisors, professional associations, we need to be paying attention to that in ways that I think need to be different than what we have been doing for the last 50 years. Just letting our folks go to national regional conferences saying, that's great, that's good, that's professional development, it's not enough anymore. And one other thing I'll add to it is budgets are tight on every campus no matter what kind you are. And almost always, the first things that we cut are professional development dollars. We have to rethink that because that's a short term fix that will have medium and long term negative consequences for our profession, for our institutions, and our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:49]: I appreciate you naming the burnout in the field. It's something that we've been talking about on the podcast since I've been working with it really, and COVID really did a number on a lot of us, I think. And that's not specific to the student affairs profession, but a lot of us were holding the space for unprecedented decisions and times and things that were really hard. And as you've mentioned throughout our conversation, the the nuance of the profession has gotten more complicated. The litigiousness has gotten more complicated, and the regulation has gotten more complicated. So as you kind of observe those you're mentoring, what advice do you like to give about how to find that resilience? Mike Segawa [00:25:28]: It comes back to a lot of things that we know are important. It starts for me with, do not neglect your loved ones. There are going to be days weeks again where, okay, yes, I do have to spend a lot of time with work on campus. But if that happens too often, if you allow that to happen too often, and you don't pay attention to your families, to those who are closest to you, that's gonna be detrimental to them, to you, to your students. And we often let that slide and and sacrifice that. And so my first thing to my folks has always been take care of your families, take care of yourself in that regard. But we oftentimes sacrifice that. And so that that is number 1 for me. Mike Segawa [00:26:12]: Number 2 is I paid attention a lot to vacation balances for my staff. And those who were accruing huge balances, for a long time, that was seen as a red badge of courage. You know, wow. Look at that. You know, what dedication they have to the work. And I came to believe, actually, no. That's a problem, actually. If we have staff members, colleagues who are actually returning vacation balances to the institution, that's not a good thing. Mike Segawa [00:26:40]: And so as a supervisor, paying attention to those kinds of details and literally really pushing your folks to use those vacation balances, take the time, is hugely important. Most of our staff have often been at will employees or exempt employees, which means we also have the flexibility to give them some downtime that doesn't have to come off the books of vacation or sick. When they've come off those tough weeks, make sure they take the time to be away and fully away, which is hard with your cell phones and computers and iPads and everything else. But that's hugely important to be able to do. And as a supervisor, you need to role model that. There's a little longer story. But so many years ago, I was asked by NASPA to do a workshop on and I think it was at a new SSAO Institute. And they gave me the, work life balance workshop. Mike Segawa [00:27:31]: I'm going, oh, okay. I had actually never put together one of those workshops, so I actually had to do some digging around and creating. So I sent an email to about a couple dozen of my colleagues, mostly vice presidents at that point, and said, what do you think of this work life balance thing? And the traditional answers came back, you know, you need to take the time, you need to be attentive to it and all that. But I had a couple colleagues who wrote back saying, you know, I really don't do it. I love my work. I get energy from the work. And so I just dive in. And I don't do a lot of vacation kinds of stuff. Mike Segawa [00:28:02]: I don't take a lot of downtime. But they said, what I've learned though in that process is my staff is watching me. And so if I'm telling them to take time and I'm not doing it Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:12]: They're not doing it. Mike Segawa [00:28:13]: They're not doing it. Actions speak louder than words. And so even the rare few for whom the work gave them the energy, so they just really dug in and did so much of it. Even they said, I needed to be more attentive to the message I was sending to my staff, and that's hugely important. Most of us need the downtime. Most of us need the time away. But even those of you who don't, others are watching you. And if you're telling them to go away for a while and regroup and refresh, they're not gonna believe it as much And they're gonna see, I guess what it means is I need to be here all the time to be successful because that's what I see my boss doing or my supervisors are doing. Mike Segawa [00:28:49]: So being a supervisor and being a leader is really a complex and complicated job. You really need to think beyond your own needs and how you best operate and look at how is this being perceived by those around me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:02]: Absolutely. One of the best pieces of mentorship I received in that regard was being able not only to take leave, but being able to turn off my phone and my email and just be like, I'm not available during this period of time. And I did that for me and also for the team that I was leading, so they knew that they could also do that when they went out. Mike Segawa [00:29:20]: Technology, on balance, I think, helps us, but not always. And so and I don't know if you were gonna go this direction, Jill, but real quickly, in the way of our work today on campus, I have seen technology be a real challenge for us, with our students especially, student behaviors, the way students now interact with each other, way they interact with us. And on balance, I think it's provided more challenge than we found the opportunity right now. Students on social media these days experience so much harm. And how do we deal with that? How do they deal with that? The conversations we have on campuses these days are oftentimes online and not necessarily mediated. And so we're seeing damage being done to our students especially that we were not prepared to deal with, especially 10, 15 years ago when this first started breaking on our campuses. And so I see the importance of not only us, but our students trying to find distance from social media and technology at times because it can be a really difficult place to try and communicate, develop relationships, exchange ideas. I worked on campuses in which I had too many students tell me I know the right thing to say online or in person. Mike Segawa [00:30:33]: It's not what I necessarily believe, but I know this is what I need to say in order to stay out of the crosshairs. And I don't wanna be in the crosshairs social media wise or in person wise. So it's really made really genuine engagement for our students on campuses really hard to do nowadays and really hard for us as student affairs folks to facilitate those. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:55]: I think that leads us really nicely into our 3 themed questions for our season. So I'm going to start with our question on the past, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively something we should be letting go of? Mike Segawa [00:31:11]: Continuing forward to focus on the student and student learning and the student experience. Student learning has been terrific as far as an understanding of what skills our our students are developing. But one of the things that we're not measuring well enough is, are are students having fun? Are they enjoying themselves? Are they enjoying the experience? It's great to measure their intellectual development, their social development, and all those kinds of things, but this needs to be fun, and it needs to be enjoyable. And I don't think we've paid enough attention to that. So it is the focus on the student that we bring forward, but moving forward, these are supposed to be the best years of their lives. And for an increasing number of our students, I'm not sure that it is. And that's where we can help them in student affairs more than their faculty members can, perhaps more than their parents can. That's a role that we can well play for our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that's going well for us? Mike Segawa [00:32:10]: Wow. That's a really good question because I don't know that many of us think that way right now because of all the challenges that surround us. So what's going well for us right now is we are responding to the emergencies, if you will, the crises really, really well. Go back to the pandemic. You know, that was just 2020, so it wasn't that long ago. But the speed, the effectiveness that we approach that, I give us a lot of credit for that because that was something most of us, well, hardly any of us had ever dealt with something like that. So there wasn't any playbook for how to deal with this crisis on our campus. And earlier, we talked about, the lack of appreciation for student affairs folks within the academy. Mike Segawa [00:32:51]: I think historically that's been true, but I do think one of the silver linings to this pandemic has been especially our faculty colleagues have come to appreciate even more what student affairs people bring to the student experience. Because it was us that we were leading the way on how do we respond in the pandemic, how do we take care of our students, and even to some degree, helping our faculty members understand how can they most effectively now teach our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:17]: And our third question on the future. In an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Mike Segawa [00:33:23]: Well, I have talked about it already, John. That is we need to be engaged in what I call the public square. We need to now step outside of our academy walls and engage the publics, whether those are legislators, other politicians, local leaders, civic leaders. We need to be more assertive about going out there and sharing our stories. And for most of us, that should be fun. Bragging about our students, bragging about our institutions, but doing it in a way that we bring the data to. We can't just say trust us. That's a huge difference from when I entered this work. Mike Segawa [00:33:58]: 40 or 50 years ago, I was taught the public trusts us in the academy in higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:03]: That's definitely different than now. Mike Segawa [00:34:05]: So if we say this is what we need to do when it comes to the work of teaching our students, they will defer to us. The courts defer to us. Parents defer to us. Politicians defer to us. As you said, that's no longer the case, and we have not yet adjusted to that reality. And that's not gonna change. We'll not go back to the days where we would say trust us, and they'd let us do what we want. Even those who are allies and supporters are now at a place where, okay, I wanna believe you, but you have to show me why this is true, or you have to show me why this is going to work. Mike Segawa [00:34:37]: And we have not yet pivoted in a way, I think, that embraces that and then prepares us to be effective storytellers of the critical work that we're doing, you know, on campuses. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Mike, is there a particular student affairs story that you would love to make sure that our listeners hear from your career? Mike Segawa [00:34:54]: So I spent, 1 year at the University of Nevada, Reno. I spent most of my career in the Pacific Northwest and especially at University of Puget Sound and 13 years as a senior officer at Puget Sound. But for a variety of reasons, felt like the right time to leave was then when I did. And the next year, I had some colleagues, some friends at UNR asked if I would come down and help them out for a year as an interim dean. So I did. And one of the last meetings I had was with a student at UNR in my office. And she was there because it was May. And she was a senior, and she thought she was in position to graduate. Mike Segawa [00:35:32]: All she needed was another class in summer school, and she would graduate. And she had mapped this out to the penny for herself over her 4 years. What she didn't realize in having to attend one summer session was summer session was more expensive than the academic year. So she didn't have the money to complete the summer session. So a faculty member had referred her to me, to our office. She explained her story to me, and she was a bartender at a casino in Reno, which she said in her case, she says, I need to wear a bustier to work. She said, I need to get out of this job, but I need to graduate in order to do that. But I don't have the money to finish. Mike Segawa [00:36:10]: She needed $300 is what she needed, I think. So I had funds to be able to do that as most deans and VPs do. We have some money. So I was able to provide her with $300, and she could finish the summer session. So she thanked me profusely, left my office, walked outside. And she was walking by my office on the outside, and she didn't realize I could see her. She was literally jumping up and down and wiping tears away from her eyes. $300 did that, but it was a huge reminder to me of why we do this work, what's important in the work, and the joy that we can get from it, no matter how complicated the jobs have become and no matter how stressful they are, there can always be these reminders of what's really important and what sustains us in the work when we have that kind of interaction with one student, in this case, for a few $100. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:02]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:08]: Thanks, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot happening in NASPA. The full registration for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference is open. And that means housing is open as well. So if you are planning to attend the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in New Orleans, This is the time to get in and get all squared away with your full registration with free conference workshops and housing and everything else. Take advantage of the early rate until December 18th. For those of you that are looking at attending, the conference programs will be held at the New Orleans Ernest and Morial, Ernest and Morial Convention Center, and the Hilton New Orleans Riverside. Sleeping rooms are available in a number of hotels close to the convention center and the Hilton. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:04]: There's also a large number of pre conference workshops that are available for attendees of the 2025 NASPA annual conference that includes half day, full day, and multiple day pre conference workshops. These learning sessions will take place on Saturday, March 15th, and Sunday, March 16th. You can register for a pre conference workshop to join colleagues and experts for an opportunity to discuss important and timely topics in-depth. Now do note that pre conference workshops do require an additional registration and fee and are not included in the main annual conference registration. Most pre conference workshops are an add on to the main conference registration, which means that you must register, you must be registered for the 2025 NASPA Annual Conference in order to register for a pre conference workshop. The exceptions to that include the International Symposium, the Community College Institute, and the Undergraduate Student Conference. The Public Policy Division just released a update on a number of different public policy issues that are impacting our campuses. Earlier this month, both the House and Senate approved the short term continuing resolution extending federal government funding at fiscal year 2024 levels until December 20th, 2024. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: This move signed into law by president Biden prevents a government shutdown and pushes budget discussions beyond the 2024 presidential election. For higher education, the CR maintains funding for the Department of Education at current levels. Looking forward, the binding, the Biden administration FY 25 budget request includes eliminating origination fees on federal student loans and increasing the maximum Pell Grant by $750 As house appropriations chair, Tom Cole indicated, the outcome of the presidential election will significantly influence whether Congress finalizes a full year funding deal in December or opts for another temporary measure. On September 24, 2024, the house also passed HR 5646, the Stop Campus Hazing Act, a bipartisan bill aimed at enhancing student safety by mandating that universities report hazing incidents under the Clery Act and implementing hazing prevention programs. The bill also requires that institutions disclose which student organizations have a history of hazing incidents, increasing transparency and allowing students and parents to make informed decisions. The measure is now headed to the Senate for approval and if passed, it would become the 1st federal anti hazing law. The College Cost Reduction Act or CCRA introduced in January 2024 continues to gain traction with 153 House sponsors pushing it forward. However, while the bill aims to re aims to reduce college costs, it may increase student loan burdens and weaken institutional accountability by repealing the gainful employment and 90.10 rules and limiting debt relief for students impacted by institutional closures. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:54]: The outcome of the November elections will likely shape the future of this legislation. The education department also extended the deadline for colleges to report program level data for gainful employment and financial value transparency from October 1, 2024 to January 15, 2025 to accommodate challenges with the new FAFSA rollout. The reported data will be used to evaluate program value, including graduates ability to repay loans and earnings compared to non college graduates. While supportive of the delay, advocacy groups stress the importance of timely implementation to provide students with critical information for making informed decisions. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:41:33]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:53]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:58]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Mike, we have reached our lightning round portion of the show. I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Mike Segawa [00:43:10]: Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:11]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Mike Segawa [00:43:17]: Center Field by John Fogarty. It's a baseball song. And this is gonna sound weird, but I also told my wife, at my memorial service, this is what I want played. So it's not only my walk up song, but it's my walk off song too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:30]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Mike Segawa [00:43:33]: Astronaut. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:34]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Mike Segawa [00:43:37]: That's a great question. I would say Greg Roberts was one of them, Grant Sherwood at Colorado State, and most recently, president I served at Puget Sound for 13 years, Ron Thomas. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Mike Segawa [00:43:53]: Any book by George Kuh. And I say that now, and I will deny it to George because I always give George a hard time. I always say, people think you're really smart, George. You're not as smart as they think you are. And he goes, well, I know that, but they keep buying my stuff. So but, yeah, anything written by George, I always paid attention to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:13]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Mike Segawa [00:44:16]: Lessons in chemistry. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:17]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Mike Segawa [00:44:21]: You know what? It is a local sports station in Seattle. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:25]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Mike Segawa [00:44:29]: Yeah. Well, Mary, my wife, and I, we have been married now for 42 years, and she is also a former student affairs person. So she put up with a lot over the course of our 42 years of marriage. So that's the biggest shout out. After that, the staffs that I worked with at what was then Central Missouri State University and then University of Washington and especially at University of Puget Sound and at Evergreen State College where I spent the most time, those folks were hugely important to me in my life and profession and totally enjoyable. And then at Pitzer College, where I spent most of the last 3 years, amazing places to work because of the amazing people there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:06]: Mike, I really appreciate you taking time out of retired life to come back and share your wisdom with the NASPA community. If anyone would appreciate your mentorship as well in the future, how can they find you? Mike Segawa [00:45:16]: It's easy, Jill. It's a little old school. Email is great. My address, it's in, the NASPA directory if they wanna get there, but it's also it's just mikesagawa@comcast.net . Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:27]: Mike, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your voice with us today. Mike Segawa [00:45:31]: You're welcome, Jill. Had great fun here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:45:37]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:46:15]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Melissa Manuel on International Collaboration, AI, and Transforming Student Experiences 41:34

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In this episode of "SA Voices from the Field," Melissa Manuel, a seasoned student affairs professional with extensive international experience, offers valuable insights into creating more efficient, collaborative, and holistic systems within higher education. Here are some key takeaways from her conversation. Bridging Gaps Through Service and Collaboration Melissa Manuel emphasizes the importance of fostering community involvement among students who cannot afford traditional courses by offering them roles within the institution. This not only helps these students receive education but also instills a sense of service and dedication, aligning them closely with the institution’s vision and mission. The integration of such methods shows promise in creating a more inclusive and invested student community. Leveraging Global Perspectives Manuel advocates for a more holistic and international approach to research and collaboration within student affairs. By looking beyond local data and considering global perspectives, institutions can vastly improve their policies and initiatives. This approach also ensures that practices are culturally inclusive and innovative, benefiting from the diversity of thought from various parts of the world. Technological Advancements and AI Integration One of the compelling areas of discussion was the application of AI and digital tools to streamline administrative processes. Manuel highlights the potential of AI in automating tasks such as scanning transfer credits and reading transcripts, thereby saving valuable time and reducing human error. She also points out the slow adoption of such technologies in higher education and urges institutions to become more open to these advancements for greater efficiency and effectiveness. Developing Holistic Student Systems In her current role, Manuel is working towards creating holistic and interconnected systems that integrate student affairs with academic affairs. These systems aim to provide a seamless experience for students, similar to the comprehensive view offered by K-12 teachers. By breaking down silos between departments and encouraging collaboration, institutions can ensure that every student’s journey is well-supported and aligned with institutional goals. Personalized Learning and Data-Driven Solutions Melissa also touched on how AI and data analysis can create tailored learning experiences. By understanding students' interests and areas of difficulty, AI can recommend curriculum adjustments and additional resources, providing a more personalized education. Additionally, data analysis can uncover trends, such as geographical challenges faced by students, leading to solutions like increased online course offerings. Empowering Students Through Experiential Learning Drawing from her entrepreneurial experience, Manuel supports models of experiential learning where students are actively involved in managing projects and initiatives. This hands-on approach not only provides practical experience but also promotes a sense of ownership and adaptability among students, preparing them for real-world challenges. To round off the episode, Melissa thanks everyone who has impacted her professional journey and emphasizes the critical role of collaboration within student affairs. Listeners are encouraged to engage with her on LinkedIn or via email for further discussions. By incorporating these innovative practices and fostering a collaborative environment, higher education institutions can better support their students' holistic development and success. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. On today's episode of Essay Voices, we welcome Melissa Manuel. Melissa has over 17 years of experience in higher education across 5 countries and 7 institutions. Having worked for 4 startup institutions in the Arabian Gulf, Melissa is familiar with how internationalization, multicultural working environments, pedagogy, and student success comes together in a variety of combinations to support student and institutional success. Her experience has also bred familiarity with many student and academic affairs best practices, as well as practical considerations and implementation outside of our common practices. Melissa will be talking to us today about starting up a brand new institution, building systems from scratch. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:07]: So in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs, Melissa brings rich experience to this dialogue. Hope you enjoy it. Melissa, welcome to SA Voices. Melissa Manuel [00:01:16]: Thank you very much, Jill. I am very excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: It's always such a delight for me to get to talk to our international guests, and tell us where you are joining us from today. Melissa Manuel [00:01:26]: Today, I am in Saudi Arabia. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:28]: And Melissa is at a not to be named at this point institution that is building and growing in the role of registrar. So, Melissa, can you tell us how you got to your current seat? Melissa Manuel [00:01:39]: Well, that's a long story, but one full of lots of twists and turns. So I did begin working in higher education in Canada for quite a few years while I was doing my undergrad degree. And then I got an opportunity to work in Qatar where I worked for 2 institutions. And then I moseyed on over to Saudi about 6 years ago, and now I'm in Northern Saudi Arabia. So total, I've got about 17 years in higher education between 3 countries, but with the 2 extra degrees are outside the countries that I've worked in, probably a total of 5 countries. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: That's amazing. So what are the other two countries on the list? Melissa Manuel [00:02:12]: So my master's degree was done in the United Kingdom, and I'm currently doing my PhD in the United States. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:18]: So like many of our international guests, especially expat international guests, you've had a journey that has taken you through multiple cultural contexts. And that's one of the reasons that I'm thrilled to be talking to you on our past, present, and future theme because you've kind of seen the way that higher ed is playing out in a variety of different contexts. So what can you tell us right now about the context for higher education and student affairs in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia? Melissa Manuel [00:02:42]: That's a really great question. So student affairs, I would say specifically in Saudi, and I would extend that toward the Greater Arabian Gulf, doesn't exactly exist as a profession just yet. You do see more of a student affairs presence in a lot of branch campuses to international institutions, especially the American ones where student affairs really does have a strong preference. But for the most part, it is a growing area. But what you see in those areas is a lot more in in institutional collaboration because student affairs doesn't exist on its own, but it's really wrapped up in academic affairs or student services or student success, which is what you see, especially even in a lot of Asian institutions where student success will really encompass both the registrarials type of side where we're looking at registration and letters and support. And then also the student affairs type of side that we see where we have student clubs and activities, internships, career support counseling. So it's really more of a holistic feeling, I would say, in this region. But with that, it does have a lot of room to grow, which is really wonderful and to be part of that foundation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:45]: Having done this work in the Canadian context, which, from my limited knowledge looks a little closer to US based student affairs work. What can you say in the compare and contrast space about what you love about this holistic student success model you're working in, and what you wish might look a little closer to the system that you grew up in? Melissa Manuel [00:04:04]: In Canada, I would agree that student affairs at least is a lot more similar to the United States student affairs type of systems. However, on the registrarial side, so I'm currently a university registrar. It is actually a lot more holistic in the Canadian context where you generally have a registrar's office that serves both admissions and enrollment and records. Whereas in the United States, you'll have admission because it's so tied to funding as a separate entity. And I think there can be a lot lost between those different groups, whereas in Canada, I do see that a lot more closer. In my current context, I see all of those mingling together a lot more, which is really wonderful. Because again, it provides, I think, a stronger and more holistic student experience because you're more familiar with the journey that those students have come from. You know where they were recruited from. Melissa Manuel [00:04:52]: You maybe know what kind of cultural context they're coming from. You've seen them go through admissions. You've seen them go through registration and maybe some of the points that they had at the point of initial registration and orientation where maybe they had a lot of family support or parental guidance. And you can kinda watch that and see how that's affected their student journey and where they go through clubs, what interests them, what their career paths are because you've seen how those other factors have influenced their choices and their interests. So that's what I do really love here, and I would like to actually see more of that collaborative holistic student experience in other countries as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:27]: What does that look like structurally? I think when we look at US and Canadian higher ed student affairs structures, they're kind of established and matured now and a little bit solidified in a lot of ways in terms of the way that the work is pretty vertical, meaning that we've got people that are specialized in various functional areas. And those areas of specialization have really become their own mini professions at this point. We're seeing far less generalists in student affairs than we used to. And I think that is creating some unique pathways into mid and senior level leadership as well because some of those skill sets mean that we don't necessarily get exposed to other parts of the profession. So I'm hoping you can share more about what that means to truly be more integratively collaborative. Melissa Manuel [00:06:12]: Well, definitely the background of what you see student affairs professionals coming in internationally, and I would say that not just for the Arabian Gulf, but in many different regions. Australia is a really good example of that because they don't have a strong student affairs type of system. A lot of their local students don't live on campus, so student affairs is actually really integrated with their curriculum development. So same as in Australia as you see here, and I would suggest a lot of Asian institutions as well as maybe European too, that you can see people coming into student affairs at fairly senior levels without any experience in higher education, but maybe they come from counseling backgrounds or career development services or maybe student clubs or recreation. You see a lot of that as well. And it is really interesting having worked for very young institutions to see how the individuals that are coming in with those very particular backgrounds outside of student affairs have influenced the structures internally and the way that the university goes, what kind of resources are given because they see those things as priority in many cases. And I really like to see that because I do think it provides a more individual, a different type of set of circumstances that students can kind of go towards, and there's more influence because maybe if you'd haven't worked in student affairs, then you're more keen to see what your stakeholders have to say because you haven't been exposed to that before. And so I think that's something that's really special here, and I think it provides an opportunity for innovation because we're not so tied to maybe the education and the history that we've gone through. Melissa Manuel [00:07:40]: I do think that there can be some things that are lost obviously in translation in understanding what that student experience means and how it can really change a student's life. So I do think there again, there are going to be pros and cons. In terms of structures, generally, what I have seen, and it really depends on if an institution is a homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus. Homegrown local institution or they are a branch campus, particularly if they're US branch campus or even a Canadian branch campus. But what I have seen a lot of the times is you'll have a director of enrollment or a director of student services or student success. Sometimes this individual might be a manager or they might even be a VP. And then from there, you'll have people that are working on specific areas, but really they're all reporting to the same individual. And I think that's something that can be challenging in the US context is that generally, you'll have student affairs or a dean of students reporting up one side and then you'll have the academic side of the house, academic affairs that are dealing with policies. Melissa Manuel [00:08:36]: So this is an administrative side of the academic house that's going up the academic side and they don't really talk to one another. So what I have seen in my own experience is a little bit of a mismatch sometimes when it comes to the institutional voice, how policies are put into practice, and how things work in general, and the type of support I think that students can get. I think this has been fixed a lot with a one stop shop that we see with a lot of institutions now. But I do still think that there's not as much communication as there does need to be because with the student experience, it's a holistic experience. And in particular, there's some really great research that has shown that students, and this is in the US, that American students feel a lot more comfortable asking for any type of career kind of support or academic support from their faculty versus the specialists that are working in, let's say academic advising. And there's a few different reasons I think for that. One is the passion, of course, that's gonna bring faculty to the table anyway. But also, I think that they have a greater understanding of that kind of holistic map of where a student can go, where somebody in it specifically in advising may be able to say, okay. Melissa Manuel [00:09:40]: These are the courses that you can take, but can they tell you maybe this person's doing a startup over here and you should try that, or this institution is looking at some kind of commercial engagement that might be of interest to you. And so they have a more specialized map because they're specialists, and we're kind of losing that I think overall holistic vision, which we don't know what's most important to students. So I do think a holistic vision in my point of view, I think is preferable. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: There's 2 things I've always said to team members that I've worked with, which is, you know, the students don't care how we're organized. They don't care who reports to who. They don't care really what funding streams are going to x, y, and z sometimes. Sometimes they do. But the reality is the the anchor of the point of care for a student is what is their experience on the campus. And they don't differentiate between an in and outside of the classroom experience on a US campus. They look holistically, as you've mentioned, what is my experience as a student at this institution? And that whole picture is what paints their entire experience from, you know, entry to degree. So this is a an approach I think a lot of institutions are working towards in the US, trying to make more fluid some of those boundaries that have somehow become a little harder over time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:49]: And I'll give a shout out to Chris Lewis, our co producer and audio engineer on this show, because he is the NASPA, I believe, co chair of the SAPA knowledge community, which is student affairs partnering with academic affairs. And the goal there is kind of the same thing, to soften some of those boundaries. But I also know for a lot of the US based professionals, those boundaries we seek to soften them, and we're not necessarily met with that same idea from some of our partners on the academic affairs side. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about how you've worked with your colleagues to soften some of those boundaries. Melissa Manuel [00:11:22]: Absolutely. And I 100% agree with you, with what you just said. And also shout out to Chris too. So I actually did attend a Sapa meeting. I think it was last year because I did wanna become part of that team, but then I became a member at large on a finance committee for ACRO, the American Association For Collegiate Registrars. And so I couldn't really do both, but I absolutely agree with the work that Chris is doing and making sure that academic is partnering with student affairs and vice versa. So some of the things that I have done, and I will admit it has been a lot easier, I think, for me than you might see in other institutions because I tend to work for very small start up institutions and ones that are very young. So there's not a lot of history that suggests only this side of the house can deal with this and only that kind of side of the house can deal with that because we haven't faced a lot of those issues to be able to determine those pathways. Melissa Manuel [00:12:12]: So again, I think it has been a little bit easier for me. Because they're small or because the institutions I've worked had have been small, I have made a very strong effort to meet individually with every single stakeholder that is in my institution. So, my previous institution, the registrar's office that I was working at didn't have the best reputation and just for servicing stakeholders and that especially came from faculty. So I really made it my mission to take every single faculty member 1 on 1 out for coffee just to understand their point of view. And it was really a kind of a two way street. So I was able to really write down a lot of the priorities that they had had and be able to clarify some of the reasons maybe why certain certain things weren't happening in a certain way because maybe their population or maybe of their students or what they wanted was only gonna service, let's say, 0.5% of our student demographic. So where are those resources going? And then also to be able to explain some of the reasons why we've done things and maybe where it is on the priority list of changing it in the future. And I have done that also with a lot of my colleagues on the student affairs side. Melissa Manuel [00:13:14]: And then again, when it comes to any type of project, I really try and make sure that we're sharing that. And a really good example is between the academic catalog and the academic hand or the student handbook. So one of the things that I did in one of my previous institutions was I rewrote the entire academic catalog with the support of my office and our senior academic leadership. But because we were changing everything there, we really needed to have an understanding of how those policies affected other areas. So each department as well as the, let's say, student rule regulations. So for example, a student goes on a leave of absence, can they still be, let's say, a leader of their student club? So So things like that and where those pathways kind of go. And so what I would do is I went and showed all the changes to and circulated amongst my student affairs colleagues, and then they were able to go through it and provide feedback. And then we also responded to that feedback, and we had plenty of meetings to help understand kinda where we needed to work together. Melissa Manuel [00:14:09]: And again, really trying to find that one institutional voice, making sure we're using language that really makes sense. And so they started doing the same thing for us when they were going through the student handbook. We would go through it as well and say, oh, you know what? We've actually changed this, or we're looking at this, and maybe you can change that here because we had this feedback from over there. And it really became a lot easier for students, I think, to find information that was consistent across both sides, and then we were both sides were aware of why certain things were the way that they were because that's nothing that a student wants to hear is to say, oh, this doesn't work, and then somebody say, well, that department is just terrible. And so it really provided a learning opportunity for both sides, and we would have regular meetings. So that's one of the things that I really do appreciate as well is regular touch points. Even if it's just something to say, you know, my department is totally loaded right now. We're super busy and then I can say, you know what? I've got some stuff. Melissa Manuel [00:14:56]: Let me just back off a little bit. I'll give you a little bit of space. So being able to really read what your departments are going through and recognize that at the end of the day, especially when it comes to administrative functions, in my view, we are there to service our stakeholders who service the vision or mission of the institution. And that's our job is to work together. And if we're not working together, are we really doing our jobs in the best way possible? And that sometimes does mean taking a step back on putting budgets forward or putting initiatives forward to say, does this actually serve the best interest? And I think that can be hard for a lot of individuals across the board in any country, but really to take a step back and making sure that we understand what we're there to do at the end of the day. One of the Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:34]: most interesting things to me about your career is that you've gotten to build systems a lot from scratch. And taking what you know from your educational background, your domestic context in Canada, your educational context in the UK, now in the US as well, and your lived experiences in the Gulf Coast region. So knowing all of that and kind of looking at that very unique melange of all of these things, when you build a system, what are the parts that you're keeping that you are excited about and you know that work for you? And what are the parts that you're going, we need to jettison this for either cultural context reasons or because we don't need to replicate something that might not be working as well as it could be? Melissa Manuel [00:16:12]: Are you meaning student systems in terms of more technology side or in practice or a little bit of both? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:18]: Could be any of those things, I think. Melissa Manuel [00:16:20]: For systems, I think along the lines of where we're going with technology and digitalization is making sure things data entry is really easy. I really don't like having to put my own staff into roles where they're just taking something from one document and manually typing it into a system. So really trying to automate that, and then if that has to happen, is saying, okay, is this really worth the time for you to do this and what we're going to get out of that? And even if we can find maybe Band Aid solutions where we use AI tools to maybe auto scan, let's say, for transfer credit purposes, we auto scan all the transfer credit reports that have maybe manually been done. There's gonna be errors, but are those errors worth having manual entry versus allowing those errors to survive in the documentation and the reports, but making sure that now we've just changed what would be a 2 week process to an hour. So trying to balance that as much as possible, and then in moving forward, making sure that we are accounting for that, the best use of our time and the way that we're using things. When it comes to any kind of system, I am really wanting everybody involved or to at least have an opportunity to talk about whatever we're doing and put their opinions forward. So for example, I'm in the process of building an academic calendar for my new institution, which is a really fun process. Are we semester? Do we have terms? Do we have quarters? What What kind of credit value systems are we gonna have? What type of grading is gonna come out of that? And one of the things that I've seen at a lot of the institutions that I've worked for is a lack of history on how those decisions were made and who was able to put their opinions forward. Melissa Manuel [00:17:52]: So what I have done or tried to do and continue to do is to put together all the benchmarking that I can find. Say within this cultural context and within the where we are today, this is a couple of opportunities for us and then this is my recommendation. And then I circulate that out and I collect all the feedback both in person and in writing, and I put all that together, collate that. And then I do respond to various things, and some individuals will have opinions that maybe that's great, and I have recorded them down even if I don't agree with them or other people don't agree with them because then there at least there's a history to know if we did look at that or not, and maybe why we chose not to go in that direction. And I think that really helps to build a better understanding of maybe the concerns or challenges that people have and the different stakeholders will have when it comes to building these types of of systems. When it comes to policies and processes, so actually for NASPA next year, I did put together a proposal to talk about these types of things when it comes to collaboration and how you go through that. And it is a lot of work to make sure that those systems are in line across the university, but it makes such a big difference when it works for all stakeholders and then all reporting opportunities. And so I'd love to actually go into detail. Melissa Manuel [00:19:00]: I've got so many details on on how to do that, but a lot of it just really takes relationship building across institutions, and I think it takes when it comes to that relationship building piece, is really taking a step back to not defend your department or defend your position, but to say, okay, these are the current concerns they have, and my job is to try and see how I can compromise in a way that really supports the stakeholder, maybe educate a little bit to understand. So maybe some things are accredited related. I don't have control over that, but we need to meet accreditation requirements, so we have to do it a certain way. Or saying, you know what? They do it, and they have a really different ideas. Let's see if I can benchmark to see how it's worked in other institutions. And the other thing that I find is really helpful working for a lot of startup institutions, and I think the NASPA Student Affairs community is so good at this, is having relationships at other institutions to be able to benchmark, and not only benchmark, but to say, okay, I've benchmarked this, you do it like this, what is your opinion on it? Does it work for you? And really get a in-depth feel of how things are going to affect your student stakeholders. So I know that was a little bit of a roundabout, coming back to how those systems work, and I know that's a very general way of doing that. But when it comes to technology, at least, I think everybody's in line with that is we want things that make sense, that don't take a lot of time, that are easy to read, and that can configure across all different types of departments and areas in a way that people understand. Melissa Manuel [00:20:21]: And I'll just give a quick example of what that means is defining certain things. So I think the word matriculation, for example, or even admitted student or registered student, that maybe sound, oh, yeah, I know what that means. Yes, maybe generally you do, but on a reporting level, that can have many different meanings. I think it's really important that the systems that you're putting together are predefined and making sure everybody is aware of what those things mean when those things come out because I think that's where a lot of issues do arise. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:48]: What is a student is a question I've wrestled through at a couple of different institutions in my career because we do mean something different if we're talking to our admissions team than if we're talking to our registrar team than if we're talking to our student conduct and behavioral intervention teams. How we define that student has many, many implications. And it's interesting that you get to wrestle with that question from the moment, one, before the student has even arrived. I wanted to ask you a little bit about because you mentioned technology, if you had begun to integrate any forms of artificial intelligence or AI into the work you're doing since you are building this system from the ground up? Melissa Manuel [00:21:24]: Short answer is yes. Again, I think we're very lucky working for new institutions to be able to use that technology very early on, and there's been some really great research out there. So IASIS, the International Association of Student Affairs and Services, also did a really great work last year looking at how student affairs professionals felt with technology and what type of technology they were using and where they see that going. And I think that's really a fabulous way to start to kinda get the temperature of where student affairs is and where higher ed is. In general, and I I think even regardless of what research has shown, higher education in general can be really tricky when it comes to using these types of tools. And Brian Rosenberg came out with a really great article last year, entitled Higher Eds Ruinous Resistance to Change because realistically, we are really slow and that does mean that we have been a little bit slower in other areas as well. That doesn't mean that we're not gonna get there but I think just having to use that technology, we're a little bit more behind because we don't have enough experience using it and where we can use it and where it's beneficial to use it. So some of the areas that have been of interest to me and my team is using AI to look at transcripts, to be able to auto read transcripts and be able to maybe make admission decisions or at least preliminary decisions a little bit quicker. Melissa Manuel [00:22:41]: Maybe looking at transfer credit. What I would love to be able to see is request for transfer credits or equivalencies, be able to have AI be able to actually say, okay, this is the course. I've looked online. I found this description. I have the syllabi. What are the equivalencies, maybe, globally that could be used and whether that course potentially could be used for transfer credit and then providing that maybe as a manual check afterward with our faculty to be able to say, okay, this is accurate or not. So we don't have a lot of those databases really full yet to be able to, I think, have a lot of confidence in those uses, but it is there. Personalized learning. Melissa Manuel [00:23:14]: So if a student is interested in something, they maybe can provide goals or interests or activities they enjoy, and then have AI be able to create curriculum and opportunities for them where they can get involved and maybe expand on what they are already interested in. And I think that also can be used for weaknesses as well to say, okay, I've noticed maybe across all these courses that you're writing in statistics, let's say, is a little bit weak. Maybe let's focus on some statistics work so that you can increase in all your courses. So it's not just, oh, you've been struggling in this course, but maybe be able to see holistically across all courses. So things that are harder for people to do manually, to be able to just dump in data and be able to provide trends to say, oh, look, this demographic of student maybe is struggling because maybe they're commuting from a different way and this highway is actually really bad, and there's a lot of snowstorms or sandstorms there. We need to maybe provide a couple little bit more opportunity for those guys to take online courses or something during those periods. So I think it'd be really interesting to see it be used in ways that we haven't been able to use it in the past. The other thing that we wanted to make sure is that, again, any technology that we're using can speak across the board to other areas. Melissa Manuel [00:24:27]: And so again, I am defining what it means for a student to be an applicant, what it means for a student to be admitted, what does it mean for a student to be matriculated. And with all those types of definitions, then the system can really put that together because I have seen a lot of different systems be able to provide that information separately, but it means different things. You can't put it together because those systems speak different languages. One speaking Greek where a student means x and another speaking something else where it means y. So really starting from scratch, we've been able to try and make sure that we're speaking the same institutional and reporting types of language. That's very administrative, but it can make a very big difference for ensuring that we are knowing the trends of our students, and then being able to react and change appropriately, and pivot a little more quickly, which again, I think has been a really big struggle for higher education to be able to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:14]: Melissa, I wanna move towards our theme questions for this season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. We've had a wonderful conversation about the present. So I'm gonna ask you about the past. What's one component of the history of our profession that you think we need to be able to carry forward or inversely something we need to let go of? Melissa Manuel [00:25:32]: I think we've already talked a little bit about this, but that holistic sense and that one on one relationship as, I mean, and this is going to happen in any type of industry and you see this a lot in corporations, is that as industries and organizations grow, that individual connection potentially gets lost because students are now numbers, they're not people, and we're focused on our KPIs. We're focused on our outcomes rather than really maybe success just means that a student had a wonderful experience. Maybe they were a b student, and maybe they have done very ordinary things that an institution doesn't feel is really, wow, big KBI check. But having made a big difference in a student's life, I think that is just as important, and I know that makes it difficult when it comes to measuring an organization's success. But I think for anybody working in this field and passionate about this field that they understand that. So I would like to see a little bit more of maybe that jack of all trades come back where individuals and staff can actually follow students throughout their cycle and build that relationship. And you can see that with with teachers as well, and let's say k to 12 types of systems is that one teacher that really believed in that student and followed them through. Even though they're maybe no longer that student's teacher, they're still a part of that life, that student's life. Melissa Manuel [00:26:40]: And when the student graduates, they come back to that teacher and say, wow, you made a really big difference. So I would like to see more of that. I think to do that, I think we need to try and break silos, which again I do think is happening. So when it comes to a trend of student affairs, I do see that. I think we might also be more forced to try and move in that direction for a few different reasons. One is budget. You'll see a lot of institutions, especially in the US, are struggling with budget cuts. And the first place that we tend to see that often is in, I think, in student activities and student affairs. Melissa Manuel [00:27:09]: So if we're more collaborative and working with other units a little bit more holistically, then I think that becomes a little bit easier. I think that again, there's a lot of opportunity and learning between students and staff that we can have, and having again lifelong learners as well coming through and making sure that we are adhering to that type of model. And then the other trend that I would like to see and continue to see is the international student mobility piece. So there are a lot of increasing opportunities for students to travel abroad and register with a variety of institutions, and again, I think this provides an opportunity for that more holistic piece because we're bringing a lot of new flavors to student affairs because now we're catering to incoming international students, and we ourselves, like me, might not might be non native to the country that we're working in. And then we're also catering to the outgoing students who maybe need some cultural training for wherever they plan to go. And I think that's a natural progression with globalization as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:04]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field of student affairs right now that is going well? Melissa Manuel [00:28:09]: Something that I would absolutely love to bring into Saudi, and I do think that there will be an opportunity to do this, and we're starting to see some younger, more innovative institutions do this, and I think it's great, is making a more student driven student affairs. So for example, student affairs organizations, they want to set up clubs and they want spaces and provide resources and they really want to give students everything they possibly can, and I think that's great. But research does show that people are far more invested in programs when they have been part of developing them. So I'd like to see student affairs become more a facilitator for students to grow their own programs, and then also manage them, providing students with the opportunity for learning through maybe business management, procurement, budgeting, leadership, succession planning, and really handing over, putting that all together might be a little more messy. But it gives something that you just can't get through regular curriculum or if somebody has given you all those things to start with and you don't understand or maybe appreciate the value of what you have. Then I also think that that would allow organizations to pivot and change more easily as the student demographics change and maybe as society changes. When institutions, for example, they spend resources, let's say, on building a state of the art maker space, they've hired staff to run it, they've got managers, they have all the supplies, they're maybe more likely to keep that investment. But if students ask for that space, they staff it, they maybe do the fundraising to get those materials. Melissa Manuel [00:29:31]: It is now their project. The students that are governing that space can then pivot and recognize change again a lot faster than I think institutions can. In Texas, there's been a new, I think actually it's a k twelve system, but it's affiliated with a college in Texas called Opportunity Central, where students run businesses that are used by all the community members like a mall, and they have everything on the 1st floor of the school within the traditional classrooms above. And there's a lot of non student based businesses there that also get reduced lease costs, lease costs if they mentor students. And that for me is the ideal example of collaboration at its finest because you're maximizing experiential opportunities for students in almost every way imaginable. And then you're also minimizing weaknesses like reliance on external vendors that may not care or cooperate with stakeholders, and then also reducing overall operational costs. And I will, as a side note, say I am an entrepreneur. I have owned my own businesses, and one of the things that I love to do is time for pay. Melissa Manuel [00:30:23]: So if I have clients who want to become more involved and maybe limited in some way, whether that's time, money, opportunity, etcetera, I offer an exchange. So for example, if a student cannot pay for courses, they can help with some of the administrative burden like responding to emails and checking other students in. And in this way, they are becoming more a part of the community and are invested in the services they are providing because they're more familiar with the client base. While I, as the company fulfill a need that I would have to pay for anyway, but I'm far more likely to get a more dedicated employee because they have an understanding and empathy in a way that maybe an external individual would not. So I think there's a lot you can do to gain a lot of experience, but then also reduce those costs that are gonna come with those things. And so I think there's things that can happen on both sides. I'd love to see the future of student affairs move in that direction and the future of institutions really to move in that direction. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:15]: And as we're talking about the future, in an ideal world, what does our profession need to do to thrive towards the future? Melissa Manuel [00:31:22]: I I'm gonna bring it back to, I think, a a word that I probably said too much, but collaboration. And I think that comes with more research into what we can do better, more research into our stakeholders, and more reading of research and ideas outside of our own regions. So for example, I am doing my PhD in the States right now, and I do recognize I am doing it in United States, and therefore, it is an American type of model that I'm looking at. But there's so much great research that's coming out from other regions and countries that are doing things differently. And what I have actually come back to my institution about is to say, we need to use that a little bit more. And really, I think a lot of the student affairs degrees that are coming out really should take more of a holistic look at the research that is in other areas. It may not be applicable, but it might just be that light bulb to say, wow, you know, we could do it like that or maybe that's an idea we could backpack it and change it in some way. So really again coming more into that globalization type of sphere because again we're gonna have international students from all over anyway and employees are moving all over. Melissa Manuel [00:32:15]: And again just building that collaborative, I think, environment for wanting to do a better job and really learning to change maybe a little bit more quickly is what I think we need to be able to thrive as an industry and as a profession. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:27]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:33]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. The NASPA strategies conference provides student affairs professionals with the knowledge and skills to effectively address collegiate alcohol and drug misuse prevention, mental health, sexual violence prevention and response peer education and well-being through a variety of comprehensive and integrative approaches. Registration is now open for the 2025 NASPA Strategies Conference, which is happening January 16th through January 18th in Boston, Massachusetts. In Boston, Massachusetts. Early registration deadline is closing on October 29th. So you still have time to register for this amazing conference and save some money along the way. This will be an amazing conference for anyone that is interested in alcohol and other drugs, mental health, peer education, sexual violence prevention, and more. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:27]: I highly encourage you to check it out on the NASPA website. The 2025 NASPA Symposium on Military Connected Students is the association premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium which features keynote speakers, keynote sessions, research policy and best practice presentations and workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. This symposium is happening on February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. Early registration closes on December 16, 2024. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:23]: The fall 2024 issue of Leadership Exchange is available, and this issue is focused entirely on democracy Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:27]: on campus. Throughout the entire issue, you're going to find strategies to cultivate active and engaged citizens. There's a number of amazing articles from people all over the country that will open your eyes to ways in which you can engage students on your own campus as we enter into the final weeks of a very busy fall season, especially in regard to democracy on campus. I highly encourage you to check it out. You can go under publications on the NASPA website to find the Leadership Exchange and be able to read the articles for yourself or share it with another colleague. It is October and that means it is careers in student affairs month. And throughout this month, there have been a number of opportunities, events that are geared toward not only providing you with a good glimpse on our profession, but also to encourage others to consider our profession. We've got a number of great presentations still coming up this month. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:33]: These opportunities are free and you can register yourself or register some of your students for them. On October 16th, we have a presentation at 3 pm Eastern. We have a presentation called Pathways to Becoming an Assistant or Associate Vice President of student affairs. If you're eager to advance in leadership roles within student affairs, the panel will discuss the essential skills, experiences, and strategies necessary to transition successfully from a mid level position to an assistant or associate VP role. On October 22nd, navigating the challenges of being a new professional in student affairs. In this informative session, you can join the mid level administration and new professional and graduate student steering committee to talk about the challenges, opportunities, and strategies for navigating the challenges faced in navigating the field as a new professional or graduate student. On October 24th, tap in and turn me up. Learn more about careers and student affairs in this session. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:35]: It is, this session is designed exclusively for undergraduate students interested in the profession of student affairs. If you've got undergraduate students at your own campus that are interested in our profession, this is the session for your students to take advantage of. Also on October 24th, we'll be having a social. The NASPA CSAM social is an informal event space for participants that connect with other new professionals and graduate student members and explore connections that bring together the field of student affairs. And then finally, October 30th, 2024, state of student affairs, a conversation with NASPA president, Doctor. Amelia Pardell and NASPA board chair, Chair Doctor. Ana Gonzalez for a discussion on the current state of student affairs, as well as the future of the field from the perspective of association leadership. I hope you'll be able to take advantage of some of these different sessions and learn about our profession, learn about ways in which you can engage further in our profession and get other people engaged in our profession. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:36]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:01]: Chris, thank you so much for sharing with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Melissa, we are with our lightning round now. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to go? Yes. Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Melissa Manuel [00:39:18]: Born to be wild. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:19]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Melissa Manuel [00:39:22]: Not just an actress, but a famous actress. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:25]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Melissa Manuel [00:39:28]: Oh, one of the deans at my previous institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:30]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Melissa Manuel [00:39:33]: JSARP, of course. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:34]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately. Melissa Manuel [00:39:37]: I actually don't watch TV, but if I did have to choose something to binge, I would probably go back to old and faithful Friends. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Melissa Manuel [00:39:48]: Absolutely. The Huberman Lab. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:49]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Melissa Manuel [00:39:53]: To all the individuals that I've worked with over the years, everybody has made an impact in my life and then therefore into student affairs in general. So thank you to my entire holistic experience. And, Melissa, if anyone would like to connect with you after the show, Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: how can they find you? You can find me on LinkedIn if you Melissa Manuel [00:40:09]: search Melissa Manuel. You'll see all the history of me working in the Arabian Gulf. I'm always open for a chat. I love connecting with colleagues, with peers, with mentors. Anybody really that wants to chat almost about anything, always there. And you can also contact me via email at melissa dotmanual@outlook.com. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Melissa, thank you so so much for sharing your voice with us today. Melissa Manuel [00:40:30]: Thank you very much for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:36]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:14]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Empowering Change: Kamakshi Velamuri's Vision for Student Affairs and Education Reform 38:59

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Navigating the Past, Present, and Future with Kamakshi Velamuri In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field hosts Dr. Jill Creighton spoke with Kamakshi Velamuri, a rising senior at North Carolina University (NCCU) who aspires to pursue a career in student affairs. The episode, rich with personal stories and professional insights, explores the challenges, triumphs, and future aspirations for higher education professionals. This blog post delves into the key themes discussed during this insightful conversation. Navigating Educational and Career Paths Kamakshi’s journey into student affairs began with a keen interest in education reform. Initially aspiring to become a teacher, her direction shifted toward becoming an educational consultant and eventually focusing on student affairs. The consistency in her passion for education reform has guided her through these transitions and solidified her commitment to creating a positive impact within the higher education system. Addressing Challenges in Student Affairs Kamakshi articulated several key challenges in student affairs: Curriculum Issues: Standardized testing, GPA concerns, and outdated curriculums need reform. Staff and Faculty Challenges: Overwork, insufficient staffing, resource constraints, and underpayment are prevalent issues. Wage Gap and Economic Challenges: Dr. Jill Creighton emphasized the wage gap in the student affairs profession and the anticipated impact of upcoming federal overtime laws. These challenges underscore the need for systemic changes to ensure well-being and fair compensation for all professionals in the field. The Importance of Student Support Systems Kamakshi shared her experiences as a first-generation Asian Indian female student at an HBCU. She discussed the cultural and familial expectations she navigated while pursuing a non-STEM career. Her story highlights the importance of support systems for nontraditional students who face unique challenges. She highlighted experiences of microaggressions and emphasized the role of diversity and inclusion departments, counseling centers, and peer mentoring groups in providing support. Reflecting on the History and Future of Student Affairs When discussing the broader scope of student affairs, Kamakshi and the hosts reflected on the importance of learning from the past while addressing ongoing and future concerns. The profession has seen improved collaboration among staff and faculty, leading to better support for students. However, Kamakshi emphasized the necessity of continuous and structured efforts for progress and adaptation. Shaping the Future: Kamakshi’s Vision Kamakshi’s vision for the future of student affairs involves intellectual and practical reform. She advocates for stronger collaboration between student affairs and academic affairs and calls for practical life skills education beyond traditional academics. The need to address economic challenges, mental health issues, and basic needs like housing affordability is crucial for the well-being of contemporary college students. Building Systemic Change Together The conversation concluded with Kamakshi’s optimistic outlook on long-term systemic change. Dr. Jill Creighton echoed this sentiment, quoting an African proverb: "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together." This mantra highlights the collective effort required to bring about meaningful change. The Lightning Round: Getting to Know Kamakshi To showcase the lighter side of their guest, Dr. Jill Creighton led Kamakshi Velamuri through a rapid-fire "lightning round”: Entrance Music for a Keynote: "This Girl is on Fire" by Alicia Keys Childhood Dream: To be a kind, influential person Most Influential Mentor: Miss Lauren, a board member Essential Student Affairs Read: None specifically, as she is not keen on reading Recent TV Show Binge: Occasionally "The Office" for fun Favorite Podcast: Enjoys yoga, meditation, and nonprofit reform podcasts Shout-outs: To herself for reaching her current position and to NASPA professionals for their support and respect These questions offered a glimpse into Kamakshi's personality, hobbies, and the influences that have shaped her journey so far. Connect with Kamakshi Listeners inspired by Kamakshi's journey can reach out to her via email at kvelamuri4@gmail.com, kvelamur@eagles.nccu.edu, or connect with her on LinkedIn. Final Thoughts This episode of "Dads with Daughters" offers valuable insights into the challenges and future of student affairs through the lens of a passionate and driven young professional. Kamakshi Velamuri’s story is a testament to the power of perseverance, support systems, and collective effort in shaping the future of higher education. About our guest Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina Central University (NCCU), majoring in Interdisciplinary Studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master’s in Higher Education Administration to become a student affairs professional. As a first-generation student leader, Kamakshi brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created through Castmagic) Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: KamakshiWelcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on Essay Voices, I'm thrilled to feature an undergraduate student, Kamakshi Velamuri is a rising senior at North Carolina University or NCCU, majoring in interdisciplinary studies. She founded an education nonprofit in high school to advocate for meaningful reform in the education system. Kamakshi plans to pursue a master's in higher ed to become a student affairs professional. As a first generation student leader, Kamakji brings a unique perspective to the world. Her passion and focus is on driving positive change in education reform. Kamakshi, welcome to essay voices from the field. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:55]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:56]: You're welcome. Welcome to SA Voices from the Field. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:00:59]: Thank you for the welcome. I'm excited. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:01]: You are one of our, I think, maybe only undergraduate students to appear on the podcast or maybe 1st or second. You're also enough, and you've spent quite a bit of time growing into a future career in student affairs. So you're the perfect person to have on for the season of the past, present, and future of student affairs. Normally, we kick off our episodes by asking our guests how they got to their current professional seat. But since you're an aspiring student affairs professional, I'm hoping you can talk about your undergraduate journey and how you've arrived at the decision that the student affairs profession is where you wanna be. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:01:33]: Definitely. So my journey has actually started since elementary. It's kind of crazy how that goes back to. But I originally wanted to become a teacher since I've seen amazing teachers, of course, bad teachers too, but focusing on the positive side, they've inspired me. And since then to high school, I was on that mindset of being a teacher until I moved or transitioned into education law or that kind of career vibe. And then I got to college with all hopes of getting into law school after graduation. But I was told by my career counselor that I should rather be an educational consultant. So long story short, I did a reflection and realized, yes, I wanted to be all these different roles. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:02:15]: But at the end of the day, they all had a common point, which was education system as a whole. So I was like, so why did I want to do education system keeping those roles aside? And that's when I realized it's all about education reform and how I'm personally the type of person. I'm not like since I had to deal with it, everybody has to deal with it. So I wanted to make sure if I struggled that the next generation did not have to struggle, and then I voice the concerns because everybody can stay complaining, but who is actually putting in the work to resolve these issues? And that's the thing that motivated me into getting student affairs in specific because I felt like with student affairs in specific, I would have the opportunity to be a point of contact in a way with my advising role or some kind of role to a point where I work with students, staff, and faculty, and I can influence a group of a collective of people. And then if I were to go for advocacy or reform to any kind of administration, I have a backup of people that can come work with me and advocate together. Because I feel like the more people that join in, the louder the voice is and the more clear it is to the administration of the importance in making the decision or changing the system, in other words. So I felt like student affairs could be a platform or an industry I could use to kind of really get those people to work together on the change. Because I know if I go by myself and say this is wrong, he won't listen to me. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:03:46]: They need research. They need backup and people to be collectively saying that this is a concern. So that's why I feel like student affairs was the best place to still do reform, because I could do reform in whatever industry, but I chose this would be more of a not just easy, but, like, a productive way to make change while I enjoy it. Because as a student myself, since middle school, I've always been in leadership roles, SGA, whatever it could be. So I enjoy that stuff. I enjoy product management, project management, event planning, pretty much everything that specifically student affairs entitles into. And then as I discovered this, I realized I started a nonprofit in high school, but that also was also education reform. So it kind of, like, all connected together, how everything was working. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:04:35]: And, of course, as I was in college and realized this dream, I was already working with the office of vice chancellor at our campus. So, fortunately, the vice chancellor of our campus is the liaison for NASPA. And, generally, my mentor for NASPA, NUF program, is also part of the Office of Vice Chancellor. So I kinda worked with all of them in joining it and then built my connections and to make it more of a reality. So that's kinda my journey into figuring out what this is. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:06]: I think you may have figured out quite a bit earlier than a lot of us that student affairs was a viable career path for you with what makes you passionate and how you want to affect systems for students. Now the reasons may sound similar across time for student affairs professionals about why we come into the field. We're generally a group of people who are designing experiences for students with the hopes that we're impacting positive change or creating support systems or helping people exercise critical thinking skills or what have you, you know, that co curricular experience. So what part of student affairs are you hoping to center into as you begin your journey? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:05:42]: So it totally depends on time because, like, you can see since middle school to now, it kinda changed. I always have plans. One thing about me people can tell you about that know me is I'm all about planning and organizing and actually overplanning. So I'm ready to take career anything that involves event planning, programming, and a direct contact with students. But I want to make sure that, yes, they're having fun through events, but they're also getting purposeful outcomes and objectives. So that's why even when I plan programming that it kind of align, actually has objectives, like a lesson or something that they can take away. Even if it's a fun event, they take away social wellness or something of that sort. So I feel like that kind of work can give me a fun, exciting, and something that I'm good at and I enjoy doing, but also can impact the students. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:06:34]: So I feel like anything event planning, so maybe, I mean, every department has event planning. I personally worked with the Seal of our campus, Student Engagement Leadership Department, and I've worked with different departments within that. Student Orgs, I've always, I'm part of Through Student Orgs myself as a leader. So I feel like that kind of journey is the start of my career because I've been in it, and I can just expand more on, like, the knowledge of it and eventually get up to whatever role it takes me to. But no matter what I do, I wanna involve learning or advocacy, but in a fun way because students like fun. I like lessons. How do we combine them is my mission. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:14]: As a current student, what types of challenges are you and your peers currently facing that you wanna be the problem solver for as you come into the profession? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:07:23]: So when I did choose to come to this profession, I already decided there were some concerns that I definitely wanna take place in or advocating for. And one of it is really just curriculum. I know that it's not easy to work on, but for me, education reform meant student issues with standardized testing, GPA, outdated curriculum, and then staff and faculty issues. As I got into NASBA, and like just in general, some other higher education as a whole, I realized staff and faculty are the point of contact for students and parents, and they're blamed for anything and everything sometimes that are not even under their control because administrators or the government made those rules. But I feel like staff and faculty issues with overworking, understaffed, under resourced, underfunded. These kind of issues are important. Also, underpaid. That's one thing. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:08:16]: We're all in here for passion because I feel like the amount of wage issues we have is kind of concerning. And then just in general, wellness as a whole, I don't feel I feel like we try to prioritize wellness, especially last few years, but there's more to go into it. And sometimes, like, we try to find work life balance or wellness as a whole, but that's not realistic. So also, like, that learning, not just for students, but for staff and faculty so that, there's more resources for them and everyone. But personally, one thing I care about is nutrition. I feel like campus foods could be better. There's a lot of issues with it. I tried doing a research project, it never worked out, but I would probably do that for my master's or PhD, who knows, which is my goals. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:09:01]: But I know there's a lot of other issues with diversity inclusion, title 9, safety, accessibility to nontraditional students. One of the main populations I wanna serve is nontraditional students because we always forget that they're students from different cultural, economic, religious backgrounds, and to serve all of them is really important. People come from different backgrounds. How can you accommodate everyone is important. So I know that's a lot, and sometimes people tell me you're very unrealistic with abolishing standardized testing, abolishing GPA or outdated curriculum. And I'm like, probably I mean, yes, it's probably, like, unrealistic for now. But eventually, I know that it's a process or a journey that I could reach. And I'm just at the start of my journey, so there's a long time to achieve this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:50]: You're a future VPSA in the making. You've got long range goals. And if you're going to change systems, it takes time. We have a colleague, I would say a late colleague actually, who loved the quote, if you want to go far, go together. If you want to go fast, go alone. It's an African proverb. And that was said often by Mary Anita Nesbitt, who was a colleague of mine at Washington State University. And she really lived that through her work, and that is something I hear you're working towards. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:18]: So I I like to see those threads tugged on, by multiple people across space and time. And as you look forward to that, how are you approaching the journey into possible master's programs? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:10:29]: So like I said, I'm a huge planner. So I've already started my planning, like, long time ago. But event starting this summer, I've gotten more serious about it with my master's planning so that I could apply. December is the deadline for a lot of programs. So kind of researching what programs are there and what meets my needs. One thing about me with master's planning or anything, I'm also, like, the type of person that thinks as much as a program or even a job recruits me, I'm also getting into that program. So, I mean, my needs also met. So I have some requirements for myself of, like, choosing between in person or online programs, if I should do graduate assistantship jobs or anything of that sort. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:09]: So there's a lot of options. But most importantly, I feel like I wanna figure out what are the ethics, values, and purpose of each of these programs in different institutions? Because I understand that not my whole, like, handbook of myself of ethics values could align with the institution's policies. But at least them understanding and accepting or respecting my perspective is important to me, because I don't wanna get to a space and have negative trauma or any kind of concerns. So I wanna prevent that before I get there. So in that sense, also realizing that. So I'm in the journey of, like, planning, figuring out what requirements or financial requirements. I'm a 1st generation student. So also, like, making sure that I understand what I'm doing, and I'm doing this kind of, like, alone, you know, most first gen students. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:11:57]: So kind of figuring that out. And kind of the main thing I'm doing right now is scheduling a meeting with different people within an institution. I felt like with the same point I just started off with. I need to meet with an admission or HR office, a professor, a student, and alum for each institution I want to go to, so that I get different perspectives of living at an institution. Sometimes I might not be able to do that for every institution, but my hope is to do that so I can get make the best decision. But I have chosen top 3 universities I'll definitely apply that I know of, so I'm ready for it. And I feel like it's important that I take this step in my higher education, especially as a 1st year student, because just starting undergrad itself is big deal. And then continuing to master's program is a whole another level of a challenge. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:12:49]: So I feel like there's gonna be challenges coming in between with the background I come from and kind of making sure everybody understands that or just that me sticking still and strong on my words and my needs. So there will be challenges, but I'm ready for everything, I guess. And that's kinda like where I'm at with master's program. And, really, me as an individual, I feel like no matter what I choose, I'm an overthinker, but I also wanna make sure I'm actually planned and prepared because I don't wanna get into something and struggle to a point. I'm I mean, I would struggle, but at least I wanna be ready for it or prepared for it, which is why I kind of am in the plans. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:32]: You mentioned that your background is having an influence on your selection process. Would you mind sharing some of your background with our listeners? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:13:40]: Definitely. So there's a lot of background identities I take myself pride in or perspective in. So one of which is being an Asian and specifically Indian, and that brings a huge influence as to my education, my lifestyle, and everything. And I say that to say because my whole family of 1 and also my gender as a female. Majority of females within India or Asia are not still working or not still studying, if that makes sense. So even my family has a background. Pretty much my mom and pretty every woman from last generations have not studied or graduated or anything of that sort. They got married early on and or housewives, which I support. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:14:26]: Everybody's journey is different, but they weren't given the option. So for me, I have the option or that which I'm grateful for. Some of this is like, oh, it's a basic need to have education. But for me, sometimes, for some people coming from different backgrounds, more than a need, it's us getting that, like, individual morality from our family and support, which I appreciate my family for. But that also gives me a huge challenge or responsibility to keep my word in that education past. But, again, the identity of being an Asian and Indian as a female that, like, statistics from how it was from past to now and how you want to be the change maker in your in, area is important. Being a 1st gen student, is also crazy because you have no support from family, so you kinda have to freestyle everything. Lot of, wood statistics again. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:15:21]: I feel like, a lot of first and students are overachievers. They wanna make sure everything's perfect. They wanna do everything they can to get acceptance from their community, their family, and everything of that sort. So it's a challenge, but I feel like those identities involve a lot of hard work. And I'm willing to put my time and effort into it, but I feel like these are really significant. My identities with my gender roles within my community of being an Indian or Asian, and also with the subject I chose. It's kind of irregular within my background to choose education system, like work or career within the education system. Everybody, we know the stereotype, Asians go to STEM. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:16:04]: And I'm fully opposed to that. But again, that's depending on the choice of people. But I want to break break those stigmas, stereotypes, microaggressions, or everything and prove people wrong that I could still make it in life, in other words, or grow without being in a STEM major, without doing the specific pathway, an individual creative for me, whereas I have to create my own pathway, if that makes sense. So my identity has given me so much influence onto what I should do, how I should lead my life and that in a positive way, but it comes with a lot of challenges. So it's like you gotta balance it out and choose what's best for you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:46]: And you chose to attend an HBCU for your undergraduate experience to receive the support and care that you needed as a person of color in the higher education community, as a first gen student. What are some of the things that your institution has done exceptionally well to ensure that you have that support safety net in place as you move through your undergraduate career. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:06]: Definitely. So that's one of the greatest thing I've specifically experienced last few years in a good and bad way, but the bad way has told me the resources I've on campus. So I had to deal with the concern on campus and I had to report it. And then I got the full support from my diversity and inclusion department on campus. They were very supportive and they gave me the resources I needed, counseling center, and so much more. So I feel like, yes, there won't be, like, a full not sure what the word is, but, like, a whole red carpet pathway of welcome. There will be challenges and issues. I had to face an offensive statement, a body shaming, and a racial slur on a HBCU. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:17:49]: But still I made it through with the support, with staff and faculty. So I was directed to the resources we had. And most importantly, sometimes it's not really the resources on campus, but the people you meet on campus that you connect with. There's a lot of peer mentoring groups and peer support, and I personally support a lot of my peers whenever they have these kind of challenges, and they're always there for me. One of the biggest reasons were I had to figure out this whole journey of why am I falling into these issues or stuff like that. And then these friends, I guess. I can't even believe that they're my friends because if you think about my past to now, I wouldn't assume that this would have gone this way. But I feel like at the end of the day, it's a well put out book. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:18:36]: It has a beginning and end conclusion, which is still continuing, like, as a chapters of life. But I feel like it's coming together already. So it's just we have resources, but sometimes it's just next to you, and you gotta realize the people that are near you could also be a resource. It does not necessarily have to be a department. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:56]: As we get older as a generation of student affairs professionals, we are farther and farther away from the present day student experience in terms of how it reflected our own experience. And it's our job to change our mindsets with new generations of students and different needs and different sets of expectations and all of those things. What would you like current student affairs professionals to know about the present day college experience, especially for students in that kind of average 18 to 25 year old range that maybe we're not seeing or not thinking about or you wish we thought about more? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:19:30]: This is a clear answer for me, and I'm excited to share this because it's a problem, honestly, that I wish a lot of staff and faculty realize, it's the collaboration I wish, the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs that I wish is not broken and that we can kind of combine together for collaboration. And I've always discussed about it and the way it impacts students. Because I feel like with students, especially student leaders as a whole, we have a lot of stuff on our plate and we're passionate about student leadership to a point. We're part of 1,000 student orgs, extracurriculars. Most of us do 2 to 3 jobs and a lot of other things apart from academics. Ideally, from past and history, from what I've heard, everybody was like, education come in and out of class, and that is all you gotta do for the degree, which is still the reality of getting a degree. But college life is more than just getting that degree. It's experiencing life as a part of college life. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:20:32]: I felt like in past, it was like when you're in college or when you're in just like your education era, it was more of education was your life. Now people have realized with the 8 dimensions of wellness, it's reality of wellness or life as a whole. There's more to life than education. It's part of your life. It's not your life. And so I wish staff and faculty realize the struggle that students are going through in balancing because they're still students. Sometimes staff forget, oh, they're adults. They gotta figure it out. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:03]: But it the reality is, yes, we're trying to figure it out. We're still trying to figure it out. Most of the adults that have graduated are still trying to figure it out and change stuff, their careers, or anything in a minute. So them expecting us to have our life together once we get to college because we're adults is kind of unrealistic because we have to go through some issues with maybe family emergencies or just in general life as a whole in balancing social life, extracurriculars, and how this generation is in a competition. Of course, every generation is it. But like for me, I feel like because of the economic state, we're trying to get jobs, we're trying to live because in past, you guys could afford a house to buy a house. Now we can't afford to rent a house. That says a lot. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:21:50]: And us, we want to make sure that we gain as much experience as possible to get a job that can pay for basic needs, because unfortunately, I feel like a lot of students can't even meet the basic needs because of the economic state. And I wish staff and faculty could understand that as we're dealing with this concern, because it's important that, yes, we have academics, but can we actually have a practical life skills and actually learn that there's more to life than this course and the GPA? Because, yes, this is important, but a number does not define my talent in education. Because outside that classroom, I'm a talented artist. I'm a talented professional. I'm part of 5 orgs. I do this, this, that. And I got 3 awards. And this is me personally. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:22:36]: But, again, a lot of students did have to deal with this, and some of them had to quit a lot of their passions just so they they could get that degree. And was it worth it? Some of them even had to cheat or plagiarize just so they could get a degree. And so it's like, is it worth a degree if you're cheating and just doing something just for the sake of societal expectation of getting the best grade when you can do what you like while also knowing that education is just part of life and also enjoying life as a whole with campus life, which is where student affairs comes into place. And just the fact that, like, with my first point of the bridge between student affairs and academic affairs, I feel like sometimes there's a fight between them. It's like not student affairs and academic affairs, student affairs versus academic affairs. Like, both of those are important. I mean, both divisions are important. But I feel like academic affairs thinks or assume sometimes that student affairs is just giving away random stuff, like gifts and and getting students to do parties and stuff. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:23:40]: But we're more than that. We have a lot of resources we're providing and providing them life. And then academic affairs, as important as doing all this, you're coming to campus paying 1,000 of dollars just for that degree. So it's I'm not saying academics is not important, but I wish that we could collaborate as professionals together with those 2 deficient to make it better for the students. Students already have to go through a lot of other things, especially with the economic state, the journey that they have to go through to just have some basic need. I don't know if that makes sense. I know it was kind of a lot, but it's comes from my experience and my peers. And I just feel like all these concerns that student go through causes a lot of student suicide, student mental health issues, and so much more. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:24:28]: And still, I want to make sure, yes, this sounds like us complaining, but we're complaining for a reason because we've seen our peers struggle through it, and we're barely surviving. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:38]: I think advocating for your needs is not a complaint. Advocating for your needs is what helps us understand what it is that student affairs needs to be doing the same and differently in order to support your journey. That's what we're here to do is to help you develop into a fully functioning member of society as you move across the stage, get your diploma, and then head into the working world wherever that might be. And it is a different economic environment right now than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I do wanna say though, you mentioned that quote unquote you all can afford to buy a house. I think that's only true for, like, baby gen xers and baby boomers. And right now, you know, a lot of millennials are struggling with that too. And I think it's important for our gen z students and young professional colleagues to understand that that is a problem that's been plaguing us for quite a while. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:23]: And so I think that economic perspective is also something that the student affairs profession really is going to need to come to terms with pretty soon here. The federal overtime laws, I think, are gonna make an impact on how things change for us. But I think more often than not, we have a wage gap in the profession, and that's just something that I know everyone is trying to figure out how to tackle. And I don't know that any of us have done it well or right yet, but it's gotta be something that we reckon with as a field. So that leads me right into our theme questions for the season. So, Kamaakji, I have 3 questions for you on the past, present, and future. So on the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should either continue to carry forward or we really need to let go of? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:26:08]: So I have a long answer, but I'll keep it short. I feel like with any system, but focusing on educational system, sometimes it's build with pillars with that foundation. So I wish people realize that whenever we got some kind of new thing, that they don't just concentrate on that, but go back and actually resolve one concern. Because I feel like with any system, there's been back to back issues. And so people, whatever is a current issue, they're focusing on that, doing whatever they couldn't to resolve it, but realize the past issue has never been resolved. So I feel like with the history, I wish there's a change in terms of how people realize that, yes, there's a lot of issues, but make sure when you start a project, you finish that concern before you get to another concern kind of thing. So let's say again, as an example, DEI and Title IX. If there's an issue with DEI this year, the Title IX next year, next year people are forgetting all the work they've done with DEI and starting on title 9, but this has never resolved. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:09]: So I feel like it's important to stick on one thing, resolve it instead of just building so many blocks and never resolving none of them. It's important to go back and realize we need to rebuild all this because we're renovating, but we actually have to, like, rebuild everything. There's no foundation. There's just pillars. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:30]: Moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:27:36]: I feel like as much as collaboration can be improved, it has been better for the current student affairs journey because the way that we're promoting professional development for staff faculty to support the students then at end of the day is really important with NASPA and many other orgs. So I feel like that's the best thing that's happening in student affairs, the collaboration and the willingness to support staff and faculty as much as we can. Because at the end of the day, they're the point of contact for students. If they're not well, how are the students gonna be well and get the support they need? So I feel like the current state it could be better, but it's definitely been better than in past. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:15]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:21]: I mentioned with past. I feel like the field needs to get to a conclusion to build collaboration so that they can definitely rebuild the structure of student affairs in a way where it actually is gonna work, and it has a foundation and pillars where everything is gonna be solid. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: So, Kamakshi, is there anything else that you'd like to share on the past, present, and future of the profession? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:28:47]: Well, if I could, I'll share forever and talk with you for hours, but with time's sake. In conclusion, I feel like we had a great conversation, and it's important to talk about this because there's change every day, and we gotta adapt and accommodate the needs of the current generation or be more of current. And so I wish there is more work towards it. I know we are working towards it, but I just wanna make sure with my work that it's definitely a continuous journey of consistency in growth for the collective, and nobody's doing it for themselves. It's, at the end of the day, benefit in the growth of the system. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:28]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:34]: Thanks, Joe. So excited to be back in the NASPA world. Today, I want to start off by congratulating our 2025 pillars of the profession. Each year, the NASPA Foundation recognizes exceptional members of the student affairs and higher education community through the pillars of the profession award, one of the foundation's highest honors. The award comes from you, our members and supporters, as a way to recognize your fellow colleagues who represent outstanding contributions to our field and our organization. Individuals receiving honors this year are Kevin Kruger receiving the 2025 John L Blackburn distinguished pillar of the profession award and the following individuals receiving the 2025 NASPA foundation pillar of the profession. Mordecai Ian Brownlee, Ainsley Carey, Zduy B. Chu, Philip Covington, Frank Cuevas, Jon Dooley, Jacinda M. Félix Haro, Leanna Fenenburg, Anne G. Flaherty, Ann M. Gansemer-Topf, Cynthia L. Hernandez, Mylon J. Kirsky, Ryan Lombardi, Roger Ludeman, Keegan Nichols, Patty Perillo, Frank Ross, Alvin Sturdivant, Rameen Talesh, and Derek Vergara. I am so excited to be able to welcome all of these deserving individuals to the pillars of the profession. And you have an opportunity to be able to celebrate the 2025 pillars of the profession with a donation to the NASPA Foundation in their honor. Take a moment to say thank you to these amazing professionals. You can donate online and learn more about the foundation's pillar class. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:14]: There's still time to sign up for a new short course, campus Crisis Management in Times of Chaos. This course starts online September 23rd and goes through October 25th. You can either register by yourself or for you and a team to acquire the competencies and knowledge that will help you support your students when crisis situations arise. The course will give a broad overview of how student affairs professionals can best support their students and campus during crisis situations. Topics will include foundations of crisis management, crisis management teams, or emergency management teams, the creation of crisis management plans, communications during times of crisis, recovery following an incident, and relationships across the institution and with outside agencies. Registration is still open, and you can sign up up to the live session start of September 23rd. So I highly encourage you to look internally at your own institution for ways to be able to engage your own campus in some amazing dialogues that will help your campus to be ready in times of crisis. I know I've talked about it in the past, and there are always opportunities to be able to give back to the NASPA family and community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:28]: And one way is through the NASPA journal board. There are a number of opportunities that are currently open for individuals to be able to get involved in our NASPA journal board. Some available opportunities include being an editorial board member or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, an editorial board member, or a new professional and graduate student review board member for the Journal of Women and Gender in Higher Education or an editorial board member for the Journal of First Generation Student Success. If any of these sound interesting to you, I highly encourage you to apply for these opportunities. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:42]: And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Chris, thank you so much for continuing to share with us what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Kamachi, we have reached our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. You ready to roll? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:49]: I'll try my best. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:50]: Alright. Number 1, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:34:55]: This Girl is on Fire. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:57]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:02]: I just wanted to be a kind person that had an influence on people just like I was as a child. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:08]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:11]: Oh, I got a list of 1,000 people, but I got to say huge shout out to miss Lauren. She was enough board member, and she's one of my best mentors currently. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:22]: Alright. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:26]: Honestly, I'm not a reading person as much, so I don't have anything as of now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:33]: I'm not watching TV shows. If I were to, it's really like my native language. But I can say I binge on Office at times just for fun because you always need that fun with chaos happening. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: That comfort show. Yeah. Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:35:50]: I don't listen to podcast again as much, but if I do, sometimes my advisers suggest some of these yoga meditation podcasts, so I love to, like, just tune into those. But also, there's been, like, a podcast about reform and nonprofits, which is my kind of industry, so I listen to those too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:13]: Oh, shout out to myself. I mean, I've not expected myself to be in this stage, and I feel like a lot of people think this is selfish, but it's important to be selfish for yourself. It's more of self love and care. So I shout out myself for getting to the stage. Like you said, I'm kind of proud of myself for being here today to be part of a NASPA, National Association, and working with all these professionals and the fact that they respect and value me. Yes. I'm an undergraduate student and maybe like that societal normals age and everything changes. But, like, again, the respect I get is really appreciated. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:36:49]: So I'm proud of myself and a huge shout out to me, but also huge shout out to you for pulling this off and doing great stuff. Now this is our first time meeting, but this has been a great pleasure talking with you. And I really appreciate how you led this and all the NASPA professionals, or not just NASPA, everybody, because we're trying our best. I know it's not gonna happen in one day, but we're making it through. And that's a shot at itself. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:12]: It's been a joy to listen to your perspective. And I am very much looking forward to watching your rise in the profession over the next several years. And if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you? Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:24]: So my emails, I'll say to, is kvelamuri4@gmail.com or kvelamur@eagles.nccu.edu . Eagle pride again. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn with my name, Kamakshi Velamuri, kamakshivelamuri. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:52]: Kamakshi, thank you so much for sharing your voices with us today. Kamakshi Velamuri [00:37:56]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:01]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:43]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Embracing AI: Dr. Daniel Weissglass on Student Affairs and Academic Integrity in Modern Education 43:07

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Artificial Intelligence (AI) is rapidly reshaping various sectors, and academia is no exception. In a recent episode of the SA Voices From the Field podcast, hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton, guest Dr. Daniel Weisglass shared his expert insights on the role, challenges, and potential of AI in higher education. Dr. Weisglass, an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, delves into academic integrity, student affairs, and the future landscape of education with a particular focus on AI tools. Rethinking Academic Assessments At the heart of the discussion is the need for rethinking traditional academic assessments in light of AI advancements. Dr. Daniel Weisglass emphasizes the importance of critically evaluating the types of assignments given to students. He suggests that faculty members collaborate closely with academic integrity units to adapt their methodologies in response to the changing academic environment. AI, particularly generative models like GPT (Generative Pretrained Transformer), can produce seemingly original essays and content. This poses a significant challenge to traditional assessment techniques, which often rely on evaluating written assignments. Dr. Weisglass advocates for the adaptation of in-person assessments to maintain academic integrity. Such measures echo the early days of Google search usage when educators needed to adapt to a new tool that changed how students accessed information. The Value of Teaching and Mentoring in Student Affairs Maintaining the historically valuable elements of student affairs is another critical point discussed by Dr. Weisglass. He underscores the importance of deep, meaningful connections and personal development in education. The role of mentoring and teaching in shaping students' experiences and growth remains as crucial as ever, despite the growing presence of AI in academia. Dr. Weisglass suggests that while AI can support student affairs professionals by recognizing emotional patterns and raising alerts, it should not replace human interactions. The human aspect of teaching and mentoring is irreplaceable, and AI should serve as a supplementary tool rather than a substitute. Addressing Modern Challenges in Student Affairs The current state of student affairs has seen an increased awareness and maintenance of campus cultures. Dr. Weisglass highlights the new challenges posed by AI-enabled academic and student conduct violations. With the advent of sophisticated AI tools, distinguishing between AI-generated and human-generated content becomes increasingly difficult. To combat these challenges, Dr. Weisglass advocates for developing robust administrative standards for safety and security. He also highlights the necessity of continual responsiveness and adaptation to student needs. As student affairs professionals, it is essential to stay ahead of technological trends and ensure that the academic and personal growth of students is not compromised. Preparing for the Future: Flexibility and Ethical AI Use Looking ahead, Dr. Weisglass envisions a future where student growth remains the primary focus, without leaning too heavily on a customer service-oriented approach. He emphasizes that flexibility, continual responsiveness, and reflective responses are key to effectively preparing students for a rapidly changing world. Incorporating AI into education requires a thoughtful approach to designing prompts and assignments. The goal is to make use of AI tools, like GPT, to support the development of labor-intensive skills such as ethical analysis. Educators need to balance leveraging AI to aid the learning process while maintaining the integrity and authenticity of student work. Embracing AI: Tools and Techniques Dr. Weisglass discusses various AI tools and their applications in higher education: Predictive AI: This AI type forecasts trends and flags at-risk students based on data patterns, such as class attendance. It helps institutions take proactive measures in student support. Generative AI: While capable of generating new content, generative AI raises concerns about academic integrity. This type of AI can fabricate information and compromise data privacy. Gamma Tool and Copilot: Gamma converts Word documents into detailed PowerPoint presentations, aiding in educational settings. Copilot, part of the Office 365 suite, helps summarize emails and meetings, streamlining administrative tasks. Cite.ai: This tool assists in generating literature reviews and finding specific articles within academic research, ensuring the accuracy and authenticity of data. Dr. Weisglass also stresses the importance of ensuring data security agreements with AI tool providers or developing in-house models to safeguard student data. Conclusion The insights shared by Dr. Daniel Weisglass underline the transformative potential of AI in higher education, along with its challenges. The integration of AI tools, such as GPT, must be approached with a balance of innovation and ethical considerations. By rethinking academic assessments and maintaining the human elements of teaching and mentoring, educators can harness AI's potential to enhance the educational experience while preserving the integrity and personal growth of students. As we navigate this evolving landscape, the role of AI in academia will continue to be a dynamic and critical area of exploration. About our guest Daniel Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, a Sino-US Liberal Arts institution located in near Shanghai. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology - with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low- and middle-income countries. He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. TRANSCRIPT (Unedited transcript created by Castmagic) Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to a new episode of SA Voices from the Field, where today we will feature Doctor. Daniel Weissglass. Doctor. Weissglass is an assistant professor of philosophy at Duke Kunshan University, which is a Sino US liberal arts institution located near Shanghai, China. His work focuses on the ethics of science, health, and technology with a special interest in the use of artificial intelligence to meet health needs in low and middle income countries. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: He also works in various ways to help DKU make the most of AI as an educational tool, as well as assisting in the development of policies regarding their safe, effective, and ethical use. So today's episode is gonna be focused on the use of AI in higher education. Daniel, welcome to student affairs voices from the field. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:06]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: It's great to see you. Daniel and I have known each other for a couple years now, and we're coming to you from across massive time zone difference. I'm sitting here in the UK and Daniel's sitting over there in China. So I can see the sun setting on his end and the sun rising on mine. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:22]: There's maybe a metaphor, appropriate to the the topic of today's meeting about that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:26]: Oh, I'm excited to get into that. Daniel, you make your livelihood as a philosopher. And so I always like to ask our guests kind of how you got to your current seat, but we're speaking with you mainly today because of your burgeoning career in academia and artificial intelligence AI. So, yeah, tell us about how you got here. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:01:46]: Well, interestingly, I can kind of weave those 2 together. Actually, part of what brought me into philosophy was an interest in AI. Now this was back before the the big data science boom even. So what AI meant at the time was a very different concept, one that had more to do with replicating human capacities and building something human like or assisting human in those performance is and and less to do with something like the large scale statistics that we see today. And the questions I kept finding myself asking was, well, if we're gonna talk about replicating something like human intelligence, I need to know better what that is. So I went into study in the philosophy of mind, and I also double majored in psychology. And I think the interest I have had in AI throughout my career is part of what brought me to where I am at DKU. DKU, Duke of Kunshan University, where I work, is a very interdisciplinary institute. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:02:34]: It doesn't really follow traditional divisional or disciplinary divisions. We don't have departments. Right? We have these big, houses. I say for the audience, Gil, you know all of this. And when I presented my initial research presentation, it was actually about not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion and the possibilities that might bring for things like moral control of AI. So I think this has been sort of a natural path for me. And then with the recent explosion in AI interest post large language models, the place for someone who can think critically and with some sort of baseline informative informedness about AI technologies, about the values that we have in using those technologies, has become more and more central to the mission of academic institutions worldwide. And I was very fortunate to find a community here that supports me pursuing that path. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:26]: You mentioned something that I've not heard in these conversations a lot, which is not artificial intelligence, but artificial emotion or the the mimicization of human emotion in AI. And typically, we're talking about AI ultimately being barely stupid because it's only as good as what we input into it. Talk to us a little bit more about that emotion component. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:03:47]: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So there's a small literature on what's called synthetic emotion usually. And there are a couple of ways of understanding what that means. One is being able to respond to emotional cues of users appropriately. You can almost see this in chat gpt when it says, oh, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Right? And that's important for a lot of reasons. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:04:07]: One being that people are more likely to maintain systems that apologize when they fail. This was an interesting set of studies on that. But what I was more interested in is systems that try to replicate the you might call input output mapping, the sort of function in the mathematical sense that human emotions have. So ideally, a system that is capable in this way would be able to, for instance, look at an image and identify the emotion that that image would produce in most viewers. So if it showed an image of a person in suffering, right, it would it would identify that this would produce sorrow or sympathy. And this is really important, this kind of input output mapping, to producing morally correct responses in some cases. Emotions play a huge role in how we make moral choices and how we decide to respond to morally loaded events. And so there's a hope that we can make artificial moral agents, is the term that gets thrown around in the in the literature, that would be able to adequately replicate these components of moral reasoning, which I think must include something like emotion, so that they can regulate themselves more effectively. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:05:10]: Now, presumably, we wouldn't want to take people out of the loop entirely. But if you don't ask them to regulate themselves based upon these basic presuppositions that we have captured in our emotional systems, you get behavior that can be very dangerous and and very much outside of what we call alignment. You get systems that are willing to lie, hate, steal, harass people, all of these things. And so the hope was and and what I was working on at the time, and it still is sort of on a back burner, is that synthetic emotion might be able to improve this, provide some sort of safety by allowing them to analyze allowing AI tools to analyze morally loaded instances in a way that's more similar to the way that humans do. There are a lot of challenges to that. But in context of something like an academic environment, this might involve something that's emotionally sensitive and responsive to student users, for instance, right? So imagine as we've been kicking around here the idea of an advisor bot. So you've got a first run chatbot that interacts with students. You don't just want the chatbot to be able to recognize the question and its meaning in a literal sense. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:06:11]: You might also want it to note certain emotional patterns that could emerge in the way students are responding. Right? You might want it to note that, the questions this person is asking and the way they're asking them as the semester goes on really seem to indicate that this the student's not doing so well. Right? And maybe it could raise a flag there. Now this would be a, you know, a much more complex system most likely than what we're dealing with in the near future, but that was the idea. And I think synthetic emotion is an under explored space in education in the same way that emotion in general, in pedagogical context and advising context is underplayed. Right? We focus so much on cognitive expertise. We sometimes forget that this is broadly speaking a care profession, and we underplay the importance of that sort of emotional intelligence and emotional engagement, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:00]: For student affairs professionals, that's where we spend most of our time is working with students in that high EQ space, in that high empathy space. And the thought of having an AI bot to help us support that work is a really fascinating one. On my end, I'm teaching currently the technology module for masters in student affairs through NASPA and LUMSU University. And I just had my first lecture about a week and a half ago, and it was all about introducing student affairs professionals to user and AI tools. We're not talking about the technological side of machine learning and how we're feeding large language models and things like that. But really, what can these things do for us to help support our work? Because at the end of the day, when we're working with students, it's a human centered profession. And I don't believe any sort of technological replacement that can get us to a place where we don't need human interaction is the core of what we do in a university setting. I think that there's cognitive development that can happen through these bots or even quick answers. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:55]: But when you're having a really hard day, talking to a bot is probably not going to help you find a space of resilience or thriving. But we also have, I think, jumped ahead quite a lot. We're already speaking from a at least a novice perspective on AI. So I want us to back up a little bit to, just give some primer and basics for someone maybe who has heard of AI but has never tried using a large language model. Maybe they're using predictive AI and they don't know it. Maybe they're a little fearful of the tools that are out there because they don't know much about them. So let's start with the super basic, which is can you describe for us the difference between predictive versus generative AI? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:08:34]: So, I mean, the to some extent, the answer is in the name. So a predictive AI is focused on predicting. This might be making a sort of, like, quantitative prediction, right, where it says, you know, given recent trends in the financial market, this is what we expect these things to go. Right? You might see these even with very, very simple forms, like expected grades could arguably be something of this kind. They'd be very simple. So predictive AIs attempt to predict. They might also try to protect things like categories. You might look at patterns of enrollment or something and say, well, this student is likely to be a major in philosophy. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:05]: This student is likely to be a data science major. And that could help you maybe plan staffing right down the road. They could also maybe identify students who we've noticed if you had the adequate data collection system. We've noticed this student has just missed 3 classes in a row across 2 different courses. Let's raise a flag. Something might be worth noting here. This is now a high risk student, maybe the classification would be. Generative AI works in a very different way. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:09:28]: What it does is is generate something. It produces, and there's some debate about how novel the outputs of these things are, but a novel output based upon usually a description of the desired output. So you go in and you say draw me a picture of a bird, and it draws you a picture of a bird. You go in and you say, and this is the kind of thing that tends to worry academics, Write me a 10 page paper about the role of Rene Descartes' mind body dualism in creating a a sort of, individualistic conception of the self which results in all these problematic ways of viewing one's connection to society. I'm getting down a path here. Sorry. I'll back up a little bit. But you, you know, you ask it your your essay prompts, it will write an essay. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:10:09]: Not always a good essay, but they're getting better. And so what generative AI does that predictive AI don't doesn't do is produce novel outputs, a novel at least in the sense that they're not just copy and pasting from somewhere. What raises concerns for academics, things like turn it in won't work, at least not as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:25]: That generative AI space, I think, is that scariest space for academia, particularly in the academic integrity front as you just mentioned. But I think it also requires that we reevaluate how we're assessing student learning. We've been relying on the essay for 100 of years in terms of the way that we measure if a student's critical thinking skills have evolved in the course that the way that we want them to. But if I put this prompt into AI about my image of self through the lens of Descartes, I could also ask it to do a niamic pentameter, and it's gonna spit out something, but it may also invent sources. It may also just make stuff up that is not relevant. It could insert a number of different factors that, maybe the end user doesn't know that it's inserting. But it's also going to take what I input into that model and use it to continually train. So none of my data is private when I go into these models because it is collecting it and then using that to continue to synthesize on its own. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:25]: But I I think what the most interesting piece is to me is that ultimately what we're looking at is math. We're looking at, how these machine learning components are taking language, which is ultimately just a variable for it, and then creating stories, full stories. So when you think about where we are right now in this moment in higher education, how do you believe that professors should be looking at these language tools, large language model tools in their work, in their assessment of student learning? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:11:53]: Excellent question. I think this is the one that most faculty are really struggling with. And I think there are a couple of things to say. One is these tools are widely available and often without charge, which allows for effectively every student to be doing what what our wealthy students, who were maybe or or less scrupulous wealthy students anyway, might have been doing in the past, which is hire someone to write an essay for them. Everybody gets to do that. Now that was always a problem. It always existed. But there was enough of a barrier that we kind of just let it slide, I think. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:12:24]: At least many of us did. Now we must respond. And the way we respond is gonna depend upon what your priorities are. Right? If you want to know that somebody knows something off the top of their head, you should be asking it in a classroom in front of you, maybe with a proctored test in some cases, if you're especially dealing with the increasing number of students who are dealing with with things like remote learning in some way. So there's this sort of, you know, if you wanna stick to the old old style and there are places where that's the right thing to do, you need to be doing it in person. But we also need to be thinking more broadly about what the world we're preparing our students to engage in is going to be like. These will be tools that they will have and be interacting with for the rest of their life. All of us will be whether we like it or not. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:05]: And so we need to think about the ways that within our discipline, we can utilize these tools both to leverage learning about our disciplinary skill sets and our disciplinary topics, and also that we can train students to use the tools. Right? So there's using the tool to teach, for instance, philosophy, and then there's also teaching students how to use the tool. We're kind of in the early days of Google search again, where every class suddenly had to have a discussion about how to use Boolean search operators and that kind of thing. And while sometimes some of the stuff you're seeing out there isn't really legitimate, you should know that people make stuff up and lie online, and here's how we identify good sources. And now we have to do that with generative AI systems. Right? You should know they hallucinate is the term that gets thrown around. Right? They they make up facts. You need to learn how to prompt them in ways that help you avoid that. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:13:55]: You need to learn which systems can be trusted for which kinds of things and generally best practices. I'm most excited about using them as tools to teach skills that are often labor intensive. So, again, as a philosopher and particularly in teaching ethics courses. Right? So there's a lot of skills that are important there about analyzing the ethical dimensions of a given case, about working through problems and reasoning effectively, and monitoring students while they do that is a wonderful thing to do and is possible in sort of a live action action way. But providing a chat GPT, a custom GPT that's been written to prompt my students to go through a certain set of steps, right, can provide them with maybe not quite the same quality, but a much more available version of this sort of prompt. Now I would never suggest that you could replace your your assessment that way or replace your your direct education that way. Right? There's still a place for for sitting in the room with me and working through it because I might notice problems that KKPT doesn't. But especially over time and with practice, as we learn how to use these tools ourselves, we can build these really cool interactive systems, sometimes called interactive tutor systems in the older literatures that help respond to our students where they are, guide them through complicated processes, and really have a lot of promise. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:13]: You said GPT a couple of times, so I just wanna clarify definition. So when we say chat GPT, that GPT stands for generative pretrained transformer. I think a lot of people don't know that it's an acronym or just haven't gone to the depths of understanding what that means. And so the generative pretrained transformer means that it's taking the information that is already been fed that pretraining component and then transforming forming it into the output that we see as human beings. But we have different versions of chat gpt that have evolved over time. 3.5 was the one that a lot of people were using for a very long time. Now for Omni is out, which is a paid service. And so for Omni is better for sure in terms of the input it's been given and the output that it will give you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: And when we look at what students are doing, it's it's not unaffordable to to become a paid member of, for Omni. And so you can use that to your advantage. The models aren't necessarily at a place right now where they can continuously self learn in the same way that we might expect them to, like a human brain can. But the information it's getting fed is is much more interesting these days. I was teaching the use of GPT 3.5 in my course the other day. And one of the things that I love about the course that I'm currently teaching is that students come from a multitude of countries. I think we had at least 7 countries represented in that space. And so we also learned a lot about bias, in the prompts that we were using and who trains the models, whose values are inputted into the models, what assumptions are made. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: One of the examples we looked at is how to respond to a highly critical email. And so what we had folks do is input the email into chat gpt, and then on the other side, ask it to craft a polite and salient response that covers these three points. We made sure to de identify any names. If your institution has a confidentiality clause of some kind, if you're trying to observe FERPA, you need to be really careful that you're not putting student identifiable information into these models because that data can be used. But what we got spit out was an extremely Americanized version of what that email can look like. And so it, again, raises the question, who is it for and whose biases are integrated into the system? And so the student that was representing work in Ireland said, I can't use this because it's too American and it doesn't meet my cultural needs. So we asked ChatCPT to transform that response to make it more culturally Irish, which I was real scared of that prompt. I'm not gonna lie. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: I thought we were gonna border into some very racist territory, and we were breathing a bit of a sigh of relief when it transformed it into something that the student identified as a little more usable. We tried the same thing in Lithuanian, and it did not give us what we needed because we had a student representing Lithuania. So the limitations of these models is very real, and that happens for for student learning as well. And I I think this is also true for things like Copilot. So the I think the 2 most ubiquitous tools right now are Chat GPT and Copilot for the everyday user. The other one that I've recently really taken to is Gamma. Have you played around with Gamma much? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:18:14]: No. I don't think I have. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:15]: Gamma is great. I actually designed my lecture using Gamma. It is a tool that you can take a Word document of, like, just an outline and upload it, and it will generate a PowerPoint for you based on what you've put into the Word document. If you want it to, it will also generate a ton of detail. Inocuous or not, it will also generate images that sometimes are really funky, but we we can get into images in a second. But what it did, I asked it to make a sandwich as an example of of how to do this. So I put in 10 lines of what I think are the basic instructions on how to make a sandwich. And then you can choose if you want it to give you basic output, kind of middle output, or thorough output, and it will just go to town about sauces and vegetables and slicing and toasting bread and types of cheese and things like that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:01]: So I think the sandwich example is an easy one because it can show you what it will take, which is make a sandwich, take some bread, add some veggies, add some protein, add some cheese, eat your sandwich, which is basically what I gave it. They turned it into a 10 slide PowerPoint, elaborate, elaborate, elaborate PowerPoint. So check out Gamma if you get a chance. What other tools are you using that people should know about? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:19:20]: So like you said, the biggest sort of general purpose are CAT KPTN being Copilot right now. And they have got a different focus. Copilot's really working to integrate to the Office 365 suite in some interesting ways that I think have a lot of promise for administration, especially at universities. As we've all been on email chains with 45 professors and really, really wish that we could have an instantaneous summary of what's been happening, Copilot can do that. It can summarize everything that that that's been going on. It can even summarize the text of ongoing meetings less well, but from recordings identify what was said and give you the bullet points. So I think the administrative side will see a lot of Copilot in these applications in particular. Another prominent sort of general model is gonna be Anthropic's Claude model, which is like OpenAI's CATGPT in effect. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:06]: And at various times, they pulled ahead of one another and which one produces, in some sense, the best quality output. So these are sort of the major commercial general use systems. There are specialized systems. So I use one called site dotaiscite.ai. Maybe I should ask for, like, a a free month. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:26]: We are not sponsored by site.ai. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:20:27]: No. We are not. Right? But what it does is solve the problem that ChatTPD has or at least tries to solve the problem of making stuff up. So it is designed to look around a large corpora of published academic work and identify articles that relate to various topics. It can even write you a sort of general overview of our topic that has these articles. And for researchers like myself, when I when I do research, it can be very helpful in a lot of ways. One is I need to find a quick literature review, essentially. Give me 10 articles that talk about this topic in contrasting ways, and it will generate a pretty decent list. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:04]: The other and the one that is very much time saving as I'm sure you've encountered this too is, you know, when you're writing a a long paper, you've read 45, 50, a 100 articles on some topic, And you remember that one of them said something like this. And your options are pretty much to control f and go through every document looking for keywords. But if you get the keyword wrong, you're just gonna have to keep doing this over and over again. So you can give Cite a list of articles and ask it to make inferences based just on those articles. And you can say things like, where which of these articles is likely to have said something like this? And it can give you some direction there. So it's been a very interesting tool, and I think one that a lot of people in the academic areas will will look at. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are also open source versions of these tools. So things like Hugging Face is is a prominent I know it's a weird name. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:21:57]: A prominent provider of these sorts of sources which allow people to make custom tools and tools that might protect data in ways that are really important. So there are 2 ways to go. You keep you you brought up the data security point which is really important. There are 2 ways for an institution to go here. 1 is to work with a provider to develop a data security agreement and to ensure that your institutional data will not be used for training a model. We can do that, and and institutions have done that. And I believe Duke has done this with Copilot, can do this with CAT KPT, and sometimes you'll set up a sort of private instance of one of these models where you put it on a server that is sort of isolated from the rest of the system. So this is one way that institutions can handle the privacy issue. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:22:36]: Another though is to build one in house. Now these models tend to be not as well fine tuned. They tend to be based on sort of the base model. So when we talk about chat to GPT, right, the GPT refers to a foundation model, which is a general purse purpose model, which can be used in various ways by various tools to create whatever output you want. ChatGPT is a specialized tool made by a specific company. Right? It's a packaging of that for sort of client use. There's other ones like, Lambda is another prominent foundation model. And so you can use one of those, take it yourself to, be adequate to your purposes, but then you're going to be dealing with the need to maintain that system more in house. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:23:15]: You won't be automatically keeping up with improvements that are becoming standard elsewhere in the world like you would with a commercially mainstream model. And the process of fine tuning and improving performance can be really expertise and time intensive. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: You've mentioned prompting the models a couple of times. I think this is an important point for us to get to. The philosophy I've come to adopt after watching, you know, hundreds of YouTube videos on how to prompt these systems well is garbage in, garbage out. That is, I think, the best way that we can encapsulate how how to prompt one of these systems. Meaning that the more specific that you can get with your prompt, the more likely you are to get a usable reply. And if you are putting in nonsense or garbage, you're going to get nonsense or garbage back on the other side. So for example, if I want to write a paper, and don't do this for your academic integrity reasons, but if I wanted to write a paper on the future of student affairs and I put in to the GPT program, write me a paper on the future of student affairs, it's gonna go every which way. But if I put in write me a paper on the future of student affairs that covers the integration of artificial intelligence and the replacement of human jobs with AI and make sure that it is in a professional style and uses at least 10 sources, I'm gonna get a much different output than if I just said that very simple thing at the front. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:24:37]: Learning how to prompt is an important part of learning how to use these tools, both for us and for our students. Right? So this is when I when I talked about the need to teach students how to use these tools. I teach research methods in some of my classes that are now based around the effective use of these tools. We need to learn how to prompt them and how to interpret their output in ways that are helpful. And there are a lot of different approaches to crafting prompts that produce a sort of certain desired behaviors. Generally, this is called prompt design, which can be contrasted with prompt engineering, which has more to do with efficiency of a performance of a system. But when you design a prompt, there's a lot of different ways to do this. I use sometimes cane of thought or instruct models, but the basic idea for both of these is to deal with a problem that most of these systems have, which is that they don't follow rules very well. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:26]: So, again, let's bring back the case of adviser GPT. Right? If I ask it, how do I major in philosophy without taking logic? It might say, oh, go. Yeah. Here's how you would do it. You would have to take all these other courses and talk to your adviser and get these substitutions, but what it ought to say is you can't. The systems are designed to be helpful. They will find you an answer even if it's wrong unless you tell it not to. And so with careful sort of design methodologies, you can say, okay. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:25:53]: Well, you don't you know, first, you review the bulletin and look for an answer to the question, then you craft an answer to the question, then you make sure that the answer you are about to give me is correct. If you don't if if you cannot find a citation in the bulletin, do not give the answer and instruct me instead that this is you don't know. Right? This is a really important thing, actually, teaching them how to tell you they don't know. And so prompt design really radically changes things. It's also one of the things that makes it, in some sense, more dangerous for academic integrity than people realize. It's very common for people to sit down with this tool and take the vanilla out of the box ChatPpt and say, well, I asked it my questions. It gave terribly bland answers. That's fine. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:26:33]: I would either be able to tell this or it wouldn't do well in my class anyway. But a student who knows what they're doing could upload your syllabus, the rubric for the assignment, any samples you've given, could upload work they have written in the past and say, match this style so that it's gonna sound like them writing for you. And and that's a a thing we need to understand. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:53]: I'm sorry. I I think this is a this is the critical juncture right now of where especially student affairs is with academic integrity and AI because a lot of universities put the AI and I use AI doubly here because we say academic integrity is AI as well as artificial intelligence. But the responsibility for academic integrity falls into student affairs spaces at a large number of universities. So what is your best pro tip on how to identify whether an essay was generated by a large language model in part or in whole? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:27:25]: So I I'll return to the analogy earlier that having your paper written for you by CAT GPT is kind of like hiring someone to write it for you. You will not, in most cases, be able to use automated tools to identify effectively whether or not a paper has been written by a large language model or Any Script generative AI. In fact, OpenAI pulled their tool down. Now there's some word that they might have a tool that does this, but the way their tool was intended to work was specifically with reference to work it produced. It would encode essentially a watermark in the way it codes words that would be undetectable to most readers, but they could detect in the statistical properties of the way the words are related. But, of course, that wouldn't work if someone used Claude. Right? If they used a different system, you no longer have that watermark system. So my big my first message is do not rely on automated detection of AI content. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:28:17]: It will not work effectively based on my understanding, and you're really risking unfairly penalizing students in ways that are not productive. The second is talk to them the same way that you would if you thought someone they had paid someone to write this paper. Say, you know, I find that your your use of this, William's 1998 paper really interesting. How did you come across that paper? They should have an answer, right, especially if this is reasonably close for the period when they wrote it. Right? Or, you know, you use this this term a lot. Can you explain to me what you mean by this term? These kinds of questions can give you a better sense. But in a lot of ways, we are now back to a period of academic integrity that many of our younger faculty, including myself, have never existed in before, which is there is not going to be certainty any long. Right? I'm used to only penalizing students for academic integrity when I went on Turnitin and went, oh, yeah. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:29:11]: Or I, you know, pulled a phrase and went to Google and looked it up and, well, there it is. Right? That's probably done at least for the foreseeable future. So get comfortable with ambiguity, return, and think very seriously about the standards of evidence that you are using to assess academic integrity, what degree of certainty you need to feel you have to feel confident in leveling certain types of penalties, and understand that this is going to become a more intensive investigating procedure than was often the case in recent years. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:39]: This is such a tricky space because I feel like it's a losing battle for those of us who work in the academic integrity space of whack a mole. Right? Is this one generated? Is this not generated? And the tools are only gonna get better. So, again, the question is really what are we trying to assess from our students and why are we trying to assess it? And now the third question is how are we going to assess it in a way that ensures that they're they're learning? And so we we do have, generative tools that can do voice. We have generative tools that can do writing. We have generative tools that can do images, and these are all getting more sophisticated. So, you know, in 5 years' time, there may not be a discernible difference, and we will see what happens. Right now, these programs can't do hands. It's the oddest thing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:21]: If you ask a program to generate you an image of a human hand, they they somehow can't figure that one out. And the other one I saw interestingly the other day was that no large language model can correctly tell you the number of r's in the word strawberry because of the way that the algorithm is broken down. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:38]: So so there are some definite limitations. They're also bad at teeth. Anything that requires them to see inside of what they're doing, they are bad at. So they can't count, for instance. Right? So this is the number of r's in strawberry. They'll often struggle because they see that as a single unit and they can't crack it open to look at what's inside of it. So they're just very confused. If you ask them word counts, they can even struggle with that sometimes. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:30:58]: I think one thing you brought up is really important here is academic integrity is associated with the kinds of assessments we're using. And in fact, its function to some large degree is to maintain the authenticity of those assessments. And a lot of what's going to have to be communicated here is that we need to rethink assessment like we said earlier. And this is going to push back in some sense on faculty. Faculty need to be working with their academic integrity units to understand what can still be meaningfully assessed, what can still be meaningfully maintained in the classroom. If you really need to know that a student knows the date of some event or can analyze some text off the top of their head. Again, you should be doing that in class where such concerns are simply gone. Right? The blue book is gonna make a fierce comeback, I predict. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:31:44]: So, otherwise, we need to just be more critical about the kinds of assignments we use. A lot of us are operating on tradition. Same things with how we understand academic integrity is largely influenced by a long academic tradition that operated under a form of intellectual productivity that may no longer be a form that we will be operating under. And so we need to adapt to those changes even in concepts as basic as what does it mean to have academic integrity and what am I doing in this ethics class. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:11]: Which is an ethical question. Indeed. Very meta. Well, Daniel, this season's theme is the past, present, and future of student affairs. And knowing you're on the faculty side of things, you might have an interesting perspective for us. So I'm gonna ask you our 3 questions on our theme for the season. So focus on the past, What's one component of the history of the student affairs profession or tradition that you think we should continue to carry forward or to let go of? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:32:33]: I think looking at the things I wanna carry forward is again, I think I said this a bit earlier, but I I think of teaching and student affairs and the university as a whole more and more of as a care profession and as a mentoring process. This is work intensive. It can be exhausting and frustrating, but I think it's the important thing. And this is something we see, I think, taken more seriously in some sense in prior iterations of what the university meant. Now in some sense, that's because they didn't have the large class sizes that we're dealing with. They didn't have huge universities that sprawled in this way and had as their mission to bring education to a large number of people. Right? Education was an elite thing. But if we can capture that, that sort of deep powerful connection, that deep mentoring, then we still have a value add. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:24]: Right? Then we're still contributing somehow to their development as a person. And in a sense, answering the question that the university has been facing since the dawn of the printing press, which is if I can just go read this there, why do I need to talk to you? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:36]: Conan Gutenberg. Okay. Alright. So our question on the present. What is happening in the field of student affairs or higher ed right now that's going well for student affairs in general? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:33:45]: I think we're becoming much more aware of campus cultures and the way that they need to be maintained effortfully. There are debates and reasonable ones to be had about what exact boundaries we want to set on our cultures, but I think for much of our history, we haven't really been engaging with that question as substantively and as effectively as we have recently. To connect back to the AI concern, one thing that we need to think about very seriously is that these tools not only enable academic integrity violations, but student conduct violations of the kinds that we may never have seen. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:17]: Automated harassment is a very real possibility now. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:17]: We've already seen this in some it in the broader world. We've seen things like revenge porn being fabricated with AI tools. We've seen falsified videos and audio using other people's voices. These are questions that we are gonna have to start figuring out both how to protect our students from administratively, right? What standards of safety and security we put in play and also how we react to these sorts of things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:47]: And moving towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field of student affairs need to do to thrive going forward? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:34:54]: Oh, that's a big question. I suppose, I mean, the short and easy answer is to continue to focus on students. I do think there's a version of focusing too much on students that can be problematic for universities where we become too customer service oriented. We need to avoid that. I think the analogy that I find more effective is the gym. Right? Which is, look, we're here to help you learn, help you grow, but you have to come and still have to do the work. Right? We're not gonna lift the weights for you. And so I think student affairs institutionally and, you know, faculty as well, we need to think a lot about how to promote and prepare the student for the world world that is coming. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:35:26]: And that is always changing. Right? And in a sense changing maybe faster these days than it was in history. And so maybe it made hitting a sense of flexibility and continual check-in and continual responsiveness is an aspect of this. So like a continual reflective response to students needs and the likely future realities that they will face. That might be my answer, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:47]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:53]: Welcome back to the NASPA World! I'm really excited to be able to share some of that with you today. Every October, NASPA celebrates the profession of student affairs. It's a month long celebration of careers in student affairs. In this month long celebration, the NASPA community comes together to share knowledge, network, and uplift the student affairs profession. There's a number of great activities that are happening throughout the month that you can take advantage of, that you can get involved in and encourage you to go into the NASPA online learning community to check out all of the resources that have been brought together in one place for careers and student affairs month. And think about ways in which you can talk about our career with people on your campus, with undergraduate students, graduate students, and more. There's a couple of opportunities for you to be able to submit proposals for a few of the upcoming symposiums and institutes that are happening within our community. The 2025 NASPA International Symposium proposal submission deadline is October 15th. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:56]: The International Symposium serves as a dynamic platform for student affairs professionals globally to share insights, engage in meaningful dialogue, and network, as well as practitioners interested in further developing their global competency skills. The international symposium is happening on March 15th 16th, and program submission deadlines are available on the NASPA website. And you can do a proposal for a flash lightning talk, a general intersession, poster session, or scholarly paper. Highly encourage you to submit a proposal today. Also, the 2025 NASA Community College Institute Institute proposals are due on October 18th. The 2025 Institute will focus on celebrating the achievements of student affairs professionals, equipping new generations for success in transforming the field through collaboration and mentorship. As mentioned, the deadline for proposals is October 18th, and I hope that you will submit a program and help shape the future of our profession. The NASPA public policy division award applications are due October 12th. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:02]: The NASPA public policy professional award honors exceptional leadership and commitment in student affairs through public policy. Nominate a deserving colleague with a letter of nomination to support letters and their resume. Don't miss this chance to shine or to shine a spotlight on an exemplary colleague. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:14]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. It's always great to know what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Daniel, we have reached our lightning round where I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to go? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:39:58]: We'll find out. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:04]: Time For Tea. I don't know. It's a weird song I really like. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:11]: A father, husband, and a good man. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:15]: Walter Sinnott Armstrong at Duke. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:17]: Number 4, your essential higher education read. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:20]: Why don't students like school? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:24]: The Sopranos. A little out of date, going back to the classics there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:31]: Recently, it's going to be History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps, a fantastic podcast for anyone interested in the history of philosophy without any gaps. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 7, finally, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:40:42]: I oppose to everyone here at DKU who's been so responsive and helpful as we move forward towards an AI enabled future. We really had a lot of people who've been supporting these kinds of efforts. Noah Pichis and and Ben van Overmeijer, has been engaged in a lot of I I would have I would have to think, Ying Chong. Really, just everybody here has been very on board, I feel like, with this effort. And, you know, that's been very influential in getting this going. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: Well, Daniel, it's been a pleasure to speak with you on this topic. I think this is a conversation we're gonna continue to have in higher education for many, many years to come. If anyone would like to connect with you on your expertise on AI or philosophy, how can they find you? Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:17]: So the easiest way is to email me at dew34@duke.eduordaniel.weissglass@dukecoonshaun.edu.cn. You can also find me on my website, danielweissglass. That's danielweiss blast.com. It's just my name, which I suppose will be in the show note. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: Those show notes are partially generated by AI. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:41:40]: Fantastic. And I really am happy to talk about any of this stuff, and I expect to have even more interesting things to say in the near future. There's some interesting stuff happening here, and I think we'll we'll soon be in a position to continue the conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:52]: Well, Daniel, again, a pleasure to have you on the show to talk with you about this area of subject matter expertise, and thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Daniel Weissglass [00:42:00]: Thank you, Jill. It was a lot of fun. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:06]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful full that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:44]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Balancing Data, AI, and Social Work in Student Affairs with Lindsay Mason 37:15

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In the latest episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton has an engaging conversation with Lindsay Mason , a seasoned mid-level manager in student affairs at Colorado State University. The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of student affairs, emphasizing the growing role of data, the need for AI and data science training, and the critical integration of social work theories. Let’s delve into the key takeaways from this insightful episode. The Data-Driven Evolution in Student Affairs Mason highlights the increasing reliance on data in decision-making processes within student affairs. With technological advancements and the influx of data, professionals in this field can make more informed decisions that better support student needs. Dr. Creighton also underscores the importance of AI and data science training to enhance assessment practices. Given the complexities of student demographics and the diversity of their needs, the ability to analyze and interpret data becomes crucial. This shift not only aids in identifying issues but also in implementing effective, evidence-based solutions. As student affairs continue to evolve, professionals must keep pace with these advancements to provide holistic support. Integrating Social Work Theories Mason advocates for embedding social work theories into student affairs programs. By doing so, institutions can offer more comprehensive support structures that cater to the multifaceted challenges students face. Social work theories emphasize empathy, community building, and systemic change—elements that are essential in fostering an inclusive campus environment. This integration helps student affairs professionals to address issues such as mental health, food security, and housing instability more effectively. By viewing students through a social work lens, professionals can develop more tailored and impactful interventions. The Critical Role of Town-Gown Relationships The episode delves into the significance of town-gown relationships, a core component of Mason's role at Colorado State University. Town-gown work involves fostering collaboration between the university and the surrounding community, which is vital for professional development and creating a supportive environment for students. Mason discusses her unique position split between the university and the city, focusing on conflict resolution and building partnerships with local stakeholders. This role is pivotal in mediating between long-term residents and student populations, ensuring harmony and cooperation within the community. Addressing Housing and Food Security The rising costs of housing and food insecurity are significant barriers to student enrollment and retention. Mason emphasizes the importance of supporting students facing these challenges, highlighting initiatives like the student resolution center and the fall clean-up program. Dr. Creighton agrees, noting the difficulty in identifying and supporting students with temporary housing issues. Efforts to combat these issues are multifaceted, involving collaboration with local police services, property managers, and community liaisons. These partnerships are integral to creating resources that address the basic needs of students, thereby fostering a stable environment conducive to academic success. Challenging Professionalism Norms Mason and Dr. Creighton discuss the need to challenge traditional definitions of professionalism within student affairs. Ensuring that the profession is inclusive of all identities is paramount for social justice. Dr. Creighton provides a personal example, leading with visible facial piercings and tattoos, symbolizing acceptance and inclusivity. Mason notes that embracing diverse expressions of professionalism empowers students and staff alike, encouraging authenticity and a sense of belonging. As the field evolves, redefining professionalism to be more inclusive will be crucial for supporting a diverse student body. Upcoming Opportunities for Professional Growth Dr. Lewis shares exciting opportunities for professional development, such as the upcoming annual NASPA conference and the 2025 NASPA Institute for New AVPs. These platforms are essential for networking, skill enhancement, and staying abreast of industry trends. He encourages members to update their profiles to take advantage of these engagement opportunities, indicating the importance of continual learning and growth in the dynamic field of student affairs. Mentorship and Influence Throughout the episode, Mason acknowledges the profound impact of mentorship in her career. She mentions influential mentors like Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes, and her admiration for Cal Newport’s work on deep, meaningful work. These influences have shaped her approach to student affairs, emphasizing the value of dedicated, thoughtful engagement with work and continuous personal development. A Path Forward As student affairs continue to adapt and grow, the insights shared by Lindsay Mason highlight the importance of embracing data-driven decision-making, integrating social work theories, and focusing on inclusivity and social justice. The episode underscores the dynamic nature of the field and the need for ongoing professional development to better serve diverse student populations. Through collaborative efforts, innovative approaches, and a commitment to fostering inclusive environments, student affairs professionals can navigate the challenges and opportunities of the evolving higher education landscape. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices from the field, we welcome Lindsay Mason. Lindsay is a first generation college student from a blue collar working class family. She currently serves as the director of off campus life at Colorado State University as one of the NASPA off campus and commuter student services knowledge community co chairs, and she teaches and advises graduate students studying student affairs. Lindsay's career has focused on town gown work for over a decade. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:50]: She earned her bachelor's degree in sociology from California State University, San Marcos, a master's degree in student affairs and higher education from Colorado State University, and a PhD in higher education and student affairs leadership from the University of Northern Colorado. Lindsay, welcome to SA Voices. Lindsay Mason [00:01:06]: Thanks for having me, Jill. I'm excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In our pre show chatter, I was glad to get to know that we've spent time in similar parts of the country along the front range in Colorado. I know that you're having a much more beautiful summer than I am here over in England. Lindsay Mason [00:01:20]: It has been lovely this summer. Yeah. For sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:23]: Well, Lindsay, we're gonna be speaking to you today all about your experiences at the mid level in student affairs in the present day about what's going on with the features of your work, particularly around town gown and serving commuter based students. But before we get into all of that, we really like to start by getting to know you by asking how you got to your current seat. Lindsay Mason [00:01:43]: So I did my undergrad at Cal State San Marcos. And I remember when I was at my orientation, there was this opportunity that was shared where incoming 1st year students could be matched up with a senior in our student government for, like, a mentorship opportunity. And I remember getting the sheet to fill out to say, yes, I wanna do this. And I remember one of the questions was, what do you want your mentor to know? And I think what they were trying to get at was, oh, are you wanting someone that has a certain major that's similar to yours? Or maybe you're really interested in fraternity and sorority life, so you're looking for someone that's in a fraternity or sorority. I literally wrote, they need to know everything I need to know because I'm 1st gen. I didn't know what I was doing. And so anyways, I got hooked up with this senior and he recommended that I joined the orientation team. And so that's what got me into student affairs at first was his recommendation. Lindsay Mason [00:02:35]: And I had excellent supervisors and mentors when I worked in orientation. And Dilsey Perez, one of my supervisors, she said, Lindsay, you should go into student affairs, and you should go to Colorado State's program. I heard it's off the hook. And I was like, okay. And so that's how I ended up at Colorado State coming out of Southern California. Once I was finishing my degree, my husband was also studying at Colorado State. He was finishing his degree and he needed a couple more years and we thought, okay, we'll do 2 more years at CSU and then we're going to go back to California to be with family. Coincidentally, at the time, my department, off campus life, was hiring a temporary program coordinator for just 2 years. Lindsay Mason [00:03:17]: And so it felt like the perfect fit. They need someone for 2 years. I only intend to be here for 2 years. And I was a commuter student all my undergraduate years, and so I thought, yeah, I could do this. So I ended up in my department just I was in the right place at the right time. But here I am, 11 years later, as the director. So, obviously, I stuck around, and I was the program coordinator for 5 years, got promoted to assistant director, and then interviewed and went got the director role. And I also ended up pulling my whole family out to Colorado with me. Lindsay Mason [00:03:46]: So they ended up following me versus me going back. So I really kind of built my roots here and it all ended up kind of working out. And I think because I've been in my department for 11 years, I do find my work very fulfilling, and I'm learning something new every day. But I think being in the same department for a long time has also pushed me to seek challenges elsewhere to make sure that I continue to grow and develop. So I was interested in getting involved with NASPA in some capacity. I've been attending the annual conference every year and had presented multiple times, but I was interested in more. And my KC was founded back in 2019, I think. And so it's a pretty young KC and so I had been working with commuter students for several years. Lindsay Mason [00:04:28]: I found out there was a KC that was being founded. And so I said, this feels like the right place for me to give some time and energy. And so I initially started as the research and assessment co chair for the KC, and then now eventually as the chair. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:42]: What are you all focused on right now in terms of practice sharing and kind of themes or up and coming future forward items for working with commuter students? Lindsay Mason [00:04:51]: So a few things that we're working on. 1, we have a lot of questions coming in where members are asking what type of physical spaces other universities are providing for their commuter students. So we have a small task force that is focused on gathering information about commuter lounges. We have we're interested in launching a commuter appreciation week in partnership with other national organizations that also support commuter students. We also have a practical toolkit that we are nearly done developing that is helping people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people come across a lot in the KC is why do some people say commuter and why do some people say off campus? So we did this study to find out why are some universities choosing one word over the other to define their students that live in the community. And it was so varied. We initially thought, oh, we maybe can try to propose a shared definition of what a commuter student is and what an off campus student is, but that quickly proved impossible. So rather, what we've developed is a set of questions that university staff can go through on their own to help them define what are our commuter students, who are our off campus students, and particularly thinking about the common intersecting identity with commuter or off campus students. So being a caregiver, having a job, how far are they commuting, if they're living with family, those types of things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:25]: I would imagine that was a really tricky space to get to because oftentimes, even at our traditional 4 year institutions, by the time students hit 3rd 4th year, they're living off campus, but maybe wouldn't consider themselves in that off campus or commuter student space. Whereas if they're a student that's from that community, maybe they would. I totally see where that rubber meeting road became difficult for you all. So beyond the definitions then, let's talk a little bit about that support mechanism piece that you started to talk about. You mentioned lounges, you mentioned appreciation weeks. What else is going on in the off campus and commuter student land that student affairs professionals should know about, especially for those who don't focus specifically on this population? Lindsay Mason [00:07:07]: I think as a nation, across many communities, we are seeing a housing crisis. And I think as housing costs only continue to rise, we are already seeing it, but we will only continue to see it to be a bigger retention issue. There are already many students that are choosing where they go to college based on what the cost of living is there. And I think about how in my type of work, I'm working within systems, specifically off campus housing markets, where I am both reliant on that market existing, but the way that I accomplish my work and the way that maybe property managers accomplish their work sometimes aligns and sometimes does not. And it is hard to be reliant on an industry that I do not always align with. So I do a lot of basic needs work at my university, specifically around housing. I also do transportation work because I happen to supervise the university safe ride program, which is not common for people that do my type of work. That's a unique setup. Lindsay Mason [00:08:09]: I support folks on campus who do food security work, and sometimes I'll describe it as we as a country have a surplus of food. We just don't do a good job in making sure that it doesn't go wasted. We do not have a surplus of housing, and so we are trying to work within this basic needs that does not have a surplus that is easily fixed. On top of housing being, it's an expensive thing to build and live in. There's a lot of legalities behind housing. So when I think about off campus and commuter students, I think about how are they managing even now to afford rent, and when will we really start to see the negative impacts of a significant portion of our students choosing not to come to a certain area of the country because of housing? Well, let me back up. Nope. Let me back up. Lindsay Mason [00:08:57]: Are we able to accurately capture how many students will choose not to come to our institutions because of housing costs? I think that's an incredibly difficult statistic to measure, but I think it is impacting who chooses to matriculate and then and our retention rates. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:17]: I absolutely agree with you on that. And we also have a crisis of housing among students who are struggling with temporary housing processes. Right? So when I was working with fundamental needs, specifically at a r one d one on the West Coast, one of the things that we learned was that most students who are unhoused or struggling with permanent housing aren't identifying themselves to the institution, probably because we've never given them a mechanism to do so. And then also are more likely not to self identify as unhoused because they're couch surfing with their friends. They might spend a couple of nights with friend a and a couple of nights with friend b and continually move. And so they have some housing security, but it's not full housing security. And those types of things are hard for institutions to measure, hard to communicate with students because we can't yet, find out who those students are. And then even more difficult to keep going down the road of, well, okay, now we've found you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:11]: How do we help you now? Because as you mentioned, rent costs are very, very high, especially in smaller markets where a lot of our traditional 4 years are and rent costs are exponentially high when we have urban campuses. So it's quite a challenge. I know that part of your work is town gown related. And in the community you're in, there's, I think, a substantially sized community around the institution, which is a nice benefit to a degree, but it's not quite a major metro. So thinking about that, how do you negotiate, as you mentioned, the values of what you need to do to keep your students' food and housing secure with the realities of a capitalist housing market? Lindsay Mason [00:10:49]: So I would say all of my work that I do is town gown in some capacity. There isn't anything I do that isn't related to how our students are experiencing our community, what they're contributing to the community, how they're being impacted by the community they live in. So sometimes at the end of the year, we all have our annual evaluations and we are asked, can you give us a list of 5 to 10 colleagues that you would want to complete a peer evaluation for you? And when I think about my peers, I think just as quickly about my city colleagues as I do about my institution's colleagues. In fact, I share a position with the city. I co supervise with my city. I have someone that's 50% in my office and 50% in the city of Fort Collins neighborhood services. So I'm working with folks in the city daily. So when I think about folk that I I'm also working with property managers daily. Lindsay Mason [00:11:41]: And in fact, my office created and hired a position called a property manager liaison because we wanted someone in our office who used to work for a apartment complex or property manager. I've never been a property manager. I don't know what it's like to live that life, but I work with them every day and I'm so reliant on their industry. I wanted to have a better insight of how they do their work. So your question, what am I considering as I'm trying to work with folks, I think about what are their values, what are their bottom lines, what are their culture, what's their department's culture in a variety of ways? So, again, I I work with neighborhood services a lot in the city, and I think about neighborhood services reporting line. Who do they report up to? And what's it like for them to speak to city council, which is different than what maybe what it's like for me as a director to speak to my vice president or president and eventually up to board of governors. Or I work with police a lot because I do a lot of safety related things off campus related to drunk driving and parties and things like that. And that police culture is very different than student affairs culture. Lindsay Mason [00:12:46]: When I think about working with property managers, they are working both with a national management company, but they also probably have a separate owner. Not always, but likely 2 different entities that they're that they have to report to. So this isn't a specific answer, but that's something I think a lot about in my work. I can't just consider how will whatever I wanna do be received at my institution. I'm thinking about a variety of partners and what it will be like for them because I can't do my work without those partners. I do nothing alone. Right? Everything is with my partners, whether they're in city offices or local properties around us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:21]: I wanna go back to the position that you identified as being half time with the city and half time with the university. That is a really unique model that I don't think we see a lot in higher education, and it sounds like a fantastic way to solve some of the challenges of the 2, big major entities collaborating. Can you talk to us about how that came to life for your institution and what that person's function is and some of the pros and cons of it? And I guess I could be a better descriptor of it that, yes, Lindsay Mason [00:13:47]: technically, they spend half their physical time with the city, half their physical time with the university, but everything they're doing is university city work or town gown work. Everything is connected. So that position has existed since 2000. At the time, we were seeing a huge amount of disruptions in our local neighborhoods around campus, particularly large parties and riot. And so a lot of town gown efforts came out at that time, and one of them was this shared position. It now is so well established that I sign an inter gov I sign an intergovernmental agreement with the city only once every decade because we commit to it a decade at a time. So it's well established and well respected. So logistically, the position is housed at CSU. Lindsay Mason [00:14:35]: We had to pick one entity for, like, HR purposes. You know, where does the paycheck come from? All those things. And so we decided that it was gonna be based at the institution, but we get half of the salary from the city and half of the programmatic dollars from the city. There are complications that come with working within 2 entities but only truly being employed by 1 entity on paper, so at the city they have to be classified as a contractor. So they get access to a lot, but there are a couple of city systems that are difficult for them to access. Sometimes the technology is a little difficult because both of us have protected systems to log into, and again, being a city contractor, they don't get all the same access. But they have 2 email addresses, and that's purposeful because depending if the community liaison, that's the title of the position, I can't remember if I said that, depending if the community liaison is talking to a student resident or what we call a long term resident. That's the best way I distinguish between someone who's a CSU student and someone who's not a CSU student. Lindsay Mason [00:15:39]: But, of course, we don't like to identify people by what they're not. Sometimes they'll give them their city email and sometimes their CSU email because we want to be clear that this person isn't here just to represent 1 population. They're here for everybody that lives in our community, regardless of their affiliation with CSU or not. Their work is really focused in the neighborhoods that have high a high mixture of long term residents and student residents. Their position does some people say like boots on the ground type work. So if there's a long term resident and a student resident that live next door and they're having conflict because of noise or parking issues or something like that. The community liaison is trained in mediation to go out and have a direct conversation with those neighbors, but they are also leading high level partnerships between the university and the city that also do neighborhood type work. So, for example, every week, we have a meeting that involves myself and our student resolution center at CSU. Lindsay Mason [00:16:34]: Our student resolution center houses our conflict resolution services and our student conduct services. And then we also have neighborhood services in Fort Collins Police Services. We are meeting regularly and that is led by our community liaison because they're living in both worlds. They're at different staff meetings. They get the best understanding of what types of resources these different departments have. So the community liaison is leading us through what new partnerships can we build or what different resources can we bring to proactively and reactively support our neighborhoods around campus. The position, I agree, is incredibly valuable. I think excellent strategy for town gown relations, and it takes maintenance. Lindsay Mason [00:17:17]: It takes effort from, particularly from both myself and the manager of neighborhood services to make sure that we're in alignment and that we trust each other and that we both accept responsibility for what's happening in the neighborhoods around campus, that both of us are invested in that work. And so over the years, the manager at neighborhood services and the director of off campus life, we have changed. And it's important that we are telling the story of the importance of this position, the history of this position, and why the position needs to continue. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:49]: How do you all make yourselves known to the long term residents of the community? I feel like, you know, being kind of housed at the institution, communicating with our students is always its own challenge, but a much easier prospect at the end of the day than trying to make yourselves known and your services known to members of the community that have probably lived there longer than anyone's been in their roles. Lindsay Mason [00:18:10]: Yeah. So we have several programs that take place out in the community. Some of which are opt in by the long term residents, so they would need to know what's happening, but some of it is because we're literally walking up to their door. So, for example, the first Wednesday of classes, we will host our annual community welcome event where we get a couple 100 volunteers. The volunteers are a mix of city staff, CSU staff, CSU students, and some long term residents. And we go in teams door to door in the neighborhoods around campus to either welcome them to the neighborhood or welcome them to the academic year. We talk about changes upcoming for this year that might impact the local neighborhoods. But then also remind them about the art of neighboring, the importance of being a good neighbor. Lindsay Mason [00:18:53]: So we have some programs like that where we are going to them no matter what. They will see us. Then we have some other long standing programs where we send out mailings, And then we also have some long standing programs where neighbors can opt in. For example, we do a fall cleanup program where a couple thousand students will go out and rake leaves for mostly elderly or disabled residents to help them be able to age in their home. When we advertise those types of opportunities that are opt in, we are really using more city communication than we are university communication. So neighborhood services has their newsletter. They use Next store. We run stories in our local newspaper. Lindsay Mason [00:19:31]: So as an institution, I don't think I could effectively do that without my partnerships in the city. And then our community liaison is also going out to many city events and introducing themselves, talking to neighbors at events where the university would not normally be present. And so, I mean, some of our neighbors, sometimes when they have questions or tension or something, sometimes they call our office or call neighborhood services and they know. They're like, I need to talk to the community liaison. I know that's a resource you have, and they name it. And that for me is, well, I don't love that they're experiencing whatever tension it is. I'm like, oh, I'm glad you know though that we do care, and we have someone dedicated to working through that with you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:06]: Let's shift gears a little bit because one of the things that I think you've been able to do in your position is really grow from that program temporary coordinator into the person leading the office, And then ultimately with the director title and where you're organizationally situated, you're a true mid level manager in student affairs. What do you see as shifting right now for mid level managers in terms of your responsibilities or day to day worlds that may have been a little different than when you entered the field? And where do you see it going in the next couple of years? Lindsay Mason [00:20:38]: I'll share some thoughts I'm having, but I know that my perspective is, of course, heavily influenced by being a director of a small unit. There are 7 career staff in my team, which there could be some departments that are, like, I'm a department of 2. You seem much bigger. But in comparison to, like, a housing department or a rec center or a health network. Right? Those are quite large. So I know being a mid level manager in a smaller department. In addition, I'm also a mid level manager at a large university. One change I see coming, which I think is great, is the amount of data or reporting out that we are required to do. Lindsay Mason [00:21:17]: I think it is a positive trend for us as a profession that we are being asked to be more clear about the data that we are using to make decisions. It is difficult on departments that do not have an assessment assigned person. We're not big enough or have the resources to have someone that does, you know, assessment or evaluation or a program review as their dedicated job. So that's difficult. Okay. I have one that maybe more people will relate to. When I finished my master's in 2013, it was standard that in order to get an entry level student affairs role, you had to have a master's in student affairs. It is not like that anymore. Lindsay Mason [00:21:56]: As a profession, particularly because of the hiring and job turnover that happened during COVID, We are seeing particularly because of the job turnover that happened during COVID, but also because our pay and our profession has not kept pace in decades with where we should be paid. We are seeing a bigger trend of entry level roles being hired with folks that do not have a student affairs background. Now on the one hand, I love that. I love that I have someone in my office that comes out of property management and not from student affairs or someone that is coming more from a psychology or social work background and not out of student affairs. I think all that is great. It also, as a mid level manager, while supervising entry level employees is already a pull on mid level managers, training more entry level employees about our profession on the job is an even bigger pull. And, and that can be difficult. It can be more time consuming. Lindsay Mason [00:22:53]: Again, these people with other types of backgrounds, they bring a lot of value to our work, and I'm excited to have folks that aren't in student affairs, But I'm having to relearn how I onboard employees to include things like student development theory and things like that that traditionally they would have had training in. So that's maybe a trend that I've seen, and I think will only continue. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:14]: That's a great segue into our theme questions for this season. On the past, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we need to let go of? Lindsay Mason [00:23:25]: I like that student affairs professionals have a history of removing barriers for students of all identities to be able to gain access to higher ed. I felt that as a student, and I feel it in my working life that that's an important piece of what I do. But as a student affairs professional from a working class background, the definitions of professionalism I must meet feel outdated at best to me. I struggle with how I was encouraged to be more authentic as a student. But then once I represented the university, I had to fall in line with white middle class professionalism. So I want us not that there's no movement, but I wish more folks challenged how we define professionalism in our profession that is trying to work towards social justice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:20]: That's a beautifully put statement. I agree with you. And I've seen some really great presentations at NASPA in the last couple of years around dress codes in particular and who they serve and who they don't and whose standard are we really enforcing. So that's a really good one to hang on to. And I see this as a person who shows up every day with very visible facial piercings, and I'm not taking them out for anybody. So Lindsay Mason [00:24:42]: As you shouldn't. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:43]: I'll be a great example of someone who can lead at the senior levels in student affairs, but also show up with visible tattoos and face piercings. I'm gonna keep doing it. Number 2, we're moving towards the present. What's happening in the field right now that's going well for us? Lindsay Mason [00:24:57]: I mentioned it earlier, our increasing usage of data. We need to be more clear about how we're using data to make our decisions. I feel our profession wanes in and out of how other people at our institutions and then certainly outside of higher education value the work that we do. Sometimes it is very evident, and sometimes it isn't. And how are we sharing data to tell our stories and to show that our work is theory and data driven? It's not random. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]: I think this is an area where AI is going to help us a lot if we can get there. But a lot of the tools that we need for assessment cost money, and a lot of us don't have the depth of training we need from a statistics perspective or a data science perspective. And so it's this tension of continually being a person of all trades in our profession. And then knowing that data driven information helps us get positions, helps us retain budget, helps us grow our programs, helps us improve the student experience, all of those things. But most of us took one class in our master's programs if we did go for the master's and not all of us did. So that's gonna be an interesting trend to continue to track. And let's move towards the future, which is in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards the future? Lindsay Mason [00:26:11]: When I was reflecting on this, admittedly, I don't think my answer is from an ideal world. I was thinking more of just what do I think our profession needs? My answer certainly is heavily influenced by the fact that I do a lot of basic needs work. We need to study social work theories. I wish social work was more integrated into student affairs programs. I mean, even minimally as an elective to better inform how our students need to navigate both within our systems, but also navigating life outside of higher ed. So I think as a profession, we would benefit from more partnerships and more studying of social work theories. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:47]: And I'll give a shout out to student affairs organization called HECMA. It's the Higher Education Case Managers Association. They have both clinical and nonclinical tracks for case managers. These are people working in student care, both within counseling centers and teams of students offices, things like that. And they've started on that probably within the last 15 years or so. I would love to see that expand. That's a great perspective. Lindsay, anything else that you wanted to share on off campus and commuter students or the past, present, and future of student affairs? Lindsay Mason [00:27:16]: I appreciate the opportunity to be on this podcast to to talk about working with commuter or off campus students and specifically more broadly doing town gown work. I think it is a fairly niche area of student affairs, although town gown work exists across multiple departments at a university and a city. So while it might be niche in student affairs, the work is incredibly fulfilling, and I'm learning a lot of skills that can be applicable in a variety of areas. So I feel like I'm getting a lot of great professional development because I do town gown work. I'm challenged in a different way working across multiple organizations outside of my institution. And while I landed in it a little randomly because I was in the right place at the right time, I'm so thankful that I'm here. And I would want others to know I think this town gown type work is meaningful. It matters. Lindsay Mason [00:28:08]: It's challenging in a good way. And even if folks right now are not in a role that feels town gown, there is likely an opportunity for it to be so. So I think there's some cool expansion when a university and city or county or local areas think about working together. We do a lot of opportunities to do some cool Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:24]: things. It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:30]: Thanks so much, Joe. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA this week. One of the dates to keep in mind as we're looking toward the future is the NASPA annual conference. It might seem like it's a long way away. However, it's not as far out as you think, and it is a perfect time for you to be thinking about making your plans, registering for the conference, and preparing for an amazing conference in New Orleans on March 15th through 19th. The focus areas of the conference this year are on well-being and healthy excellence in student affairs, changing the student affairs profession, and sustaining and celebrating the profession. There are so many opportunities to be able to take part in the conference, to learn, to grow, to be able to take all of that learning back to your own campuses. And if you've never attended a conference before or if this is your 10th or more conference, it is always a homecoming to go back to the conference and be able to reconnect with all of your professional colleagues. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:29]: It's the fall, and that means it's a perfect time to be able to do some, fall cleaning. And some of that fall cleaning means going into your NASPA profile to make sure that you are getting what you want. You can do that by going to the NASPA website atnaspa.org, clicking on my NASPA and logging in. When you log in, go to edit my profile and check all of the different links that are there. Make sure that your name and institution and all of the information and all of the information that's there is accurate. But then you want to go a little bit deeper and look at your engagement and be able to find out what are you actually signed up for. By clicking on my NASPA engagement, you have an opportunity to be able to sign up for different knowledge communities, journals, divisions, and groups, and be able to stay in the know of what is happening within NASPA. I highly encourage you to do this. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:24]: It doesn't take a lot of time. And after you add different things into your engagement portal, make sure to save it so that you will get informed about everything that you are most passionate about. Finally, today, I'm going to just throw out another professional development opportunity. I already talked about the annual conference, but I wanted to also talk about the 2025 NASPA Institute For New AVPs. The NASPA Institute For New AVPs is a foundational 3 day learning and networking experience designed to support and develop AVPs in their unique and challenging roles on campus. The institute is appropriate for AVPs and other senior level number twos who report to the highest ranking student affairs officer and who have been serving in their first AVP or number 2 position for no longer than 2 years. December 11th is the early registration deadline for this amazing professional development opportunity, which will be happening January 23rd through 25th in Columbus, Ohio. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:22]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:43]: Chris, thank you so much for another edition of NASPA World. Always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. Lindsay, we have our lightning round ready for you. Seven questions, 90 seconds. You ready to go? Lindsay Mason [00:32:55]: Okay. I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]: All right. Number 1, If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Lindsay Mason [00:33:01]: What's coming to mind for me is some type of country song. Not a lot of people in student affairs listen to country. There's a lot of assumptions about me because I listen to country, but I like country music, and I'm okay with that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:11]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Lindsay Mason [00:33:15]: Oh, a dozer operator. My dad's a heavy equipment operator. I really wanted to drive tractors. And even to this day, I my dad's a professional truck driver. I also one day, I wanna get my CDL license. I love thing big things with engines. I owned a school bus for a year, and I was like, let me go drive this school bus. And I offered it to other people to drive it, and they're like, I would never do that. Lindsay Mason [00:33:34]: And I was like, how do you not wanna do this? So I wanted to drive big pieces of equipment. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:38]: My nephew would totally wanna spend all the time with you. He is currently obsessed with all things dozer related, Bob the Builder, all of it. Lindsay Mason [00:33:45]: Love it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:46]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Lindsay Mason [00:33:49]: I have several women in particular in my life that have been excellent mentors for me. I think about women that influenced me heavily when I was an undergrad, people that were strong influences on me when I was in my masters, and then now as a professional. I'm gonna mention 3. The 3 women who worked full time in off campus life when I first started, Jeannie Ortega, Emily Seams, and Nancy Rhodes. I still work with Nancy. She and I are still together in our office. And I recently went to a lunch with all the career staff in my office except Nancy because she was visiting her mom in Florida. And I actually realized in that moment, I did not like being without my 3 original women because they placed such a heavy influence in my life. Lindsay Mason [00:34:27]: So Jeanne Ortega, Emily Seams, Nancy Rhodes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:29]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Lindsay Mason [00:34:32]: Maybe a little nontraditional. I recently well, the last couple of years, I've been really digging Cal Newport and his work around deep meaningful work, so much so that I built a workshop that is offered through my university's talent development. And I like his techniques around developing my capacity to do focused, deep, meaningful work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:52]: Number 5, the best TV show you've binged lately. Lindsay Mason [00:34:55]: My new favorite comfort show is Abbott Elementary. I see that being one that I'm gonna turn back to a lot, similar to how I turn back to The Office or Parks and Rec. So Abbott Elementary. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Lindsay Mason [00:35:09]: Because I'm a 1st gen student, I carry a lot of financial responsibility in my family. And so I listen to financial podcasts. 2 of them that I listen to are choose FI and all the hacks. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:18]: Alright. And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Lindsay Mason [00:35:23]: The people that I did not mention earlier, folks that were really influential in my career as an undergrad include Dilsey Perez and Jenny Ruiz. When I was a grad student, I had a lot of great mentorship from Bobby Kuntzmann and Pamela Norris. I also think one of the best decisions I ever made in my life is marrying my husband, Jason Martin. He's an excellent partner. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:41]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to get to know you better today, to learn about your expertise and great work with the community that you're living in and working with. I'm sure there are folks that would like to get connected with you either for your area of specialty or also just getting involved with the knowledge community that you're co leading. If anyone would like connect with you after the show, how can they find you? Lindsay Mason [00:35:59]: I think the best way would be to email my Colorado State email address. It's lindsay.mason@colostate.edu . And it's lindsay with an a. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:09]: Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Lindsay Mason [00:36:11]: Thanks, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:17]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org , or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Empowering Adult Learners: Community Support, Technology, and Goal Setting 29:44

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Understanding the Unique Needs of Adult Learners In this episode of SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton delve into the intricacies of supporting adult learners with Lindsay Taylor , a strategic program manager and NASPA leader. Lindsay shares her extensive experience in aiding adult learners through various academic and co-curricular initiatives, particularly her work with the National Society of Leadership and Success (NSLS) and NASPA’s Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community. Transition to Online Learning During the Pandemic Lindsay describes the transformation her organization experienced moving from a hybrid model to a fully online one. Initiating this shift just before the pandemic, her team had to quickly adapt to the exclusively online format, relying on trial and error to determine the best technological solutions. Initially experimenting with Google discussions, they ultimately settled on the GroupMe app based on positive student feedback and participation rates. This application allowed for ease of use, catering to those less tech-savvy by enabling text message integration. This adaptability and student-centric approach played a significant role in maintaining engagement and continuing student success during challenging times. Strategies for Engaging and Supporting Adult Learners Recognizing that adult learners often juggle multiple responsibilities, Lindsay highlights several strategies her team implements: Accessible Orientation Materials: Crafting easily accessible orientation videos. Providing clear guidelines on software usage. Offering support documents and checklists to ease the transition into virtual learning environments. Inclusive Support Systems: Including parents in the educational process fosters a family homework dynamic. Encouraging family involvement can positively impact degree completion and commencement rates among adult learners. Community Creation: Developing online hubs for students to connect and share resources. Encouraging direct student input through annual engagement surveys to tailor activities and support structures that best meet their needs. Overlaps with First-Generation Students Many strategies developed for adult learners also benefit first-generation students. By creating a readily accessible support system, both groups receive the necessary guidance and resources without feeling alienated. This approach aligns with diversity, equity, and inclusion values, ensuring that all students feel supported and engaged regardless of their background or current situation. Leveraging Technology for a Sense of Belonging Lindsay discusses the importance of creating virtual communities where students can network and establish personal connections despite physical distances. The use of platforms like GroupMe for success networking meetings, where students set smart goals and hold each other accountable, exemplifies leveraging technology to foster a sense of belonging. These communities become invaluable for students who might otherwise feel isolated due to their busy schedules or geographical constraints. Challenges and Solutions in Success Networking Meetings A significant hurdle in leadership programs is the success networking meeting. Students must engage in group collaboration, which proves challenging for those juggling multiple responsibilities. By creating flexible, accessible options through technology, Lindsay and her team effectively support students who might fear overcommitment. This tailored approach ensures students can complete their responsibilities without foregoing critical networking opportunities. Future Directions in Student Affairs Looking forward, Lindsay advocates for continuous assessment and innovative practices in student affairs. Emphasizing technology and community-building, she underlines the importance of evolving to meet students' changing needs. Lindsay also encourages involving students in decision-making processes, ensuring their voices directly influence the programs designed to support their success. In this episode, Lindsay's insights into supporting adult learners and students with children resonate deeply. The innovative strategies her team employs to create accessible and engaging learning environments offer valuable lessons for educational institutions striving to adapt and support their students. As we move forward, the key to success lies in continuing to listen, adapt, and innovate being driven by the diverse needs of our student populations. You are encouraged to connect with Lindsay Taylor on LinkedIn for further insights and participation in upcoming meetings focused on collaboration within the NASPA Knowledge Community. The future of student affairs undoubtedly involves a blend of technology, empathy, and proactive engagement strategies, paving the way for inclusive and successful educational experiences for all. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Lindsay Taylor, sheher. Lindsay is the strategic program manager for her university's chapter of the National Society of Leadership and Success or N SLS. She also serves on the leadership committee for NASPA's Adult Learners and Students with Children Knowledge Community. The N SLS chapter she manages serves more than 2,000 students in the southeast region. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:49]: Lindsay holds an MBA from Quinnipiac University and is currently pursuing her certified student affairs educator certification through the Higher Education Consortium. Using her business expertise, Lindsay has coached more than 670 students, helping them develop their leadership acumen. She continues to motivate and mentor students and student chapter leaders and has established the chapter as a growing financially self sustaining operation. Lindsay attribute NSLS chapter success to ensuring students are heard and creating innovative solutions current and future practice of student affairs around adult learners and non traditional learners. I think that's definitely a fantastic area for us to continue to explore. You're also one of our knowledge community co chairs, and you're working, quite a lot to support, students with children. So a lot to dig into today. But we always love to start our episodes by asking, what is your current role and how did you get to your current seat? Lindsay Taylor [00:01:49]: I have multiple roles that I hold. So I work in admissions. I am a chapter adviser for one of the honor societies for my university, and we cover the entire southeast region from Maryland and DC all the way down to Florida and over to Tennessee and Kentucky. I am also on their co curricular board. And then, as you mentioned, I'm one of the co chairs for the adult learners and students with children knowledge community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:12]: So you are wearing a ton of hats right now. Lindsay Taylor [00:02:14]: Yes. I enjoyed though. I also get to be a programming chair for one of our business resource groups. So I really enjoyed diving into that, and I'm just the person that keeps asking questions, and then I get involved into things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: I think that is a very traditional NASPA story that we're all just continually saying yes, and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in all of these big things. Well, can you talk to us a little bit about the knowledge community first? I think it's a knowledge community that's fairly new in the NASPA space compared to maybe some of the ones that have been there for the last 20, 30 years. But I think you're serving an incredibly important population. All of our students are important. This particular population, I think, is growing. Lindsay Taylor [00:02:52]: Definitely. I joined this knowledge community during one of the pandemic NASPA conferences that was online, and I was thrilled by the stuff that was happening. And they were talking about how in Oregon, there was laws being passed and Illinois to collect demographic data on our adult learners so that the schools can better serve them. In Oregon, the one university that was talking about it, they have a whole day to celebrate their adult learners, and I thought that was fantastic. So the knowledge community really focuses on how we can support the adult learners in that space, but also acknowledging that there's people that have pen they're taking care of. And often these learners are people that they're working at least one job, maybe more, while trying to go to school and care for their family. So it's a balancing act for them to manage their time and still be successful in their class. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: How are we defining adult learners in the knowledge community space? I think it's a fun tension because all of our students are adults once they come to the collegiate space. So it's a unique utilization of the term. Lindsay Taylor [00:03:51]: So we actually had a conversation about this at our last strategy meeting, and we kind of have it to how the student is identifying themselves. Because it came up about even, like, people that are caring for other people outside of children, especially ever since the pandemic. Like, a lot of people got sick, so they may be caring for parents now. And it's how the student is identifying themselves. If they identify themselves as someone that's an adult learner versus that traditional, you've graduated high school, now you're moving on into college, they might have started their academic journey a little bit later. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:23]: And we are also seeing an increase in students with children balancing those priorities of earning their degrees while also raising their families. I was recently at a university in North Central Minnesota. And one of the things that I loved is they've converted one of their student apartment buildings into single parent housing, which I thought was really unique. I had not seen that done at many other institutions. Seeing family housing in a lot of places, but this was really specific to support students who did not have another adult partner helping them raise that family. So I thought that was a great trend. What other types of trends are you seeing that are supporting our students with children? Lindsay Taylor [00:04:58]: I'm seeing a lot more initiatives to allow them to feel like they're being seen because oftentimes that population of students, they feel like they're the forgotten ones. They may be going to the community colleges a lot when they start off or going right into the online, and they often feel disconnected from the university because they don't have that traditional time to go join student clubs and be in person because they're often at their job or even having take their kids somewhere. And then so I think because the pandemic forces of a whole industry to kind of adapt and change. A lot more schools are offering more online environments, and it gives that flexibility back to the student so that they can still feel like they can balance everything and be pursuing their degree. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:41]: That balance component, I think, applies to all sorts of learners who are working full time jobs or maybe multiple jobs and trying to earn their degrees. You mentioned connection as a place where universities are still trying to figure out how to engage our students that are online learners or maybe students that are only coming to campus for their classes. Maybe they don't want to join a club or org, or maybe they do, but they simply do not have capacity. So what are some of the practices we're seeing to build those connections given that our traditional methods are probably not going to work? Lindsay Taylor [00:06:12]: I think having more of an online community home. So, like, the honor society that we run, we have over 2,000 students in our chapter, and majority of them are adult learners. We do an engagement survey every year, and we say, okay. What is working for you and what is not working for you? Because we want you who knows the student better than they know themselves? So we wanna hear from them on what can we do as a chapter to better serve you through your leadership program so that you're able to finish that step. Because the one step that just always holds a lot of students is what's called a success networking team meeting, which is the one step that they can't do solo. It's the one step where they have to be in a group and collaborating with people and talking with other people. And when you have people that are 3rd shift and other different, like, jobs, they have 2 of them that they have to balance. They're like, I don't have time, and they just back away. Lindsay Taylor [00:07:04]: And so I think by having more of those trends of asking the students what they need, there's platforms out there, like, Unified that I know other schools have integrated into their platform that brings what's going on to the university all to their student portal so that these students can see what's going on, see what's trending at their university, see what's out there for them, and it making it more accessible. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: You mentioned a success networking meeting. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Lindsay Taylor [00:07:30]: Yeah. It's an opportunity for the students to establish a smart goal. So it requires a my half doing a lot of, like, success coaching and say, okay. Well, that's a great goal, but how do we take that from a goal to a smart goal? When do you want to achieve this? What are the steps you're gonna take to reach this goal? And really kind of guiding the students through that when they're submitting their reports, but it's an opportunity for them to connect in with other individuals in the honor society and have that accountability aspect to that because their other fellow members are encouraging them. And it's always great to see that because one of the things that we've done for our chapters will have the on live events, but then we also put everybody into a group me. So we're utilizing technology to bring it to our adult learners and those that have children and people that are caring for others so that they're able to still do their success networking team meetings in that group setting, but it's just at their fingertips. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:23]: And you're doing that in an online context, which I think is quite innovative. A lot of institutions would love to be pushing that direction. So how did you get your institution to move from this idea that we needed to have this space? It was probably in person. Pandemic happened. That pushed a lot of us online. But what made it stick and create infrastructure in the online space? Lindsay Taylor [00:08:43]: So our chapter actually formed the fall of 2019. So we were a hybrid chapter where we had our main location in Tennessee, and then we also are doing more hybrid style for those in North Carolina. During the pandemic, we expanded out to where we're at now where we covered the entire southeast region. So we were doing that while having to adapt to going strictly online, and we went through a lot of, like, different iterations because we were like, okay. What if we use the Google discussions? Because you can create a whole discussion board in Google to see, like, how would this work for the students to be able to navigate this. But when we saw that some people were having trouble technology wise, like, not everybody's gonna be technologically savvy, and so we then moved it to GroupMe to try that for the students. And it was kind of a trial and error of, okay, what is gonna work for this chapter? And as the chapter advisor and it also gives a lot of flexibility in running chapters. They're like, you have these set guidelines that you have to follow. Lindsay Taylor [00:09:40]: But as far as if you wanna modify certain things for your chapter to best work for it, you can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really, can. And I appreciate that because that's what's allowed for us to really optimize the technology and find something that was gonna be simpler. Something that people can literally just use their phones because with GroupMe, it'll send it as a text message to them, or they can be in the GroupMe app. And so it made it something that they're familiar with, and then that's kind of what allowed for a lot more people. And I explained to them, like, well, all you have to do is this. They're like, it's that easy? Yes. We've literally simplified it to make it as easy for you as possible. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:14]: Let's talk about the tech a minute because I think the tech is always pushing the field forward into the future. I think a lot of institutions are currently making the rounds through Discord and Slack and GroupMe and whatever other platform we're using to create groups with students. I know this was Facebook Groups back in the day, and now we've kind of merged into other spaces. How did your team decide that GroupMe was going to be the way to meet students where they're at? Lindsay Taylor [00:10:41]: So we started integrating that around 2021 or 2022, and we had, like, our first kind of cohort of students. And then through the engagement survey, we said, okay. Did you guys like this? Which one are you using more? Did you, like, attend the live events, or did you find the group me was easy to use? And then based on that's the group of students' feedback, we determined that the group meet what's gonna be that best option for everybody because of the positive feedback that we got back from the students. So that's why we continue to use that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:13]: What other strategies are you using that you're finding quite effective in engaging your adult learners? Lindsay Taylor [00:11:18]: I would say bringing it to their forefront of where they can find the information. The one thing I found is, like, they just don't have time to go digging through stuff. They need it right front and center to them where it's easily accessible. They can find it. So this year, we are actually creating a new member orientation video separate from the orientation that kinda guides them through their leadership programs. So we're like, hey. We're your chapter adviser, and this is your student president. We're gonna kinda guide you through your entire NSLs portal so that as we're having our members join, we can send that out and we've created, like, little syllabus documents to say, here's the software that you should be using. Lindsay Taylor [00:11:57]: Like, make sure you're using the NSL's mobile app. Make sure you have the GroupMe app, and then listing out everything for them. So that there's no question about what's going on, that everything is like, hey. Here's a document. You can print this off. We created, like, an induction steps checklist for them. So with their s and t's, if they attend the live event but they forget to submit the report, they can put on the paper, oh, I attended it this day. And then as that reminder, it says, and I submitted my report on x y z date. Lindsay Taylor [00:12:24]: So it gives them that way that if they're, you know, short on time, they can go back to their document and then go, oh, I can add the date for this and then get that submitted. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:33]: I'm hearing a lot of overlap in success for 1st generation students and what you're finding is successful for the adult learning communities that you're serving. How many of your students are also in that 1st gen space? Lindsay Taylor [00:12:46]: I haven't asked that question, but I think that would be a really good question to ask. A lot of the students, when we ask what their age range is, the majority of our students are usually 40 and over, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't also be a 1st gen student. I think having worked on the admission side with a lot of the first gen students, I do think there is that challenge when they don't know what to expect and being able to be that guiding force sort of speak that can say, okay. And this is what you can expect and, like, asking, do you under like, stay in all of this? And then making sure that their support system also understands Because sometimes people have questions, what are you doing? And so I think it's having information that's easily accessible to both the 1st gen and the adult learners does help because sometimes they need that reference point to come back to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:36]: And what we know, right, is that if it's good for a 1st gen student, it's gonna be good for all students. And that's really about communication, dispelling the ivory tower, and the language that we use that could be to insider, to the field, or to the institution, redefining terms, that kind of thing. You just made a really important point, which is also looping in student support systems to help them through the process. When you're working with adult learners, who are you looping in generally from that support systems perspective? Lindsay Taylor [00:14:05]: So a lot of the students that I work with through admissions, they often have children. So I'll always crack the joke and be like, oh, you're gonna have a homework table now. Like, everybody sits down, they do their homework together. And it makes them laugh, but I think it also, like, creates that visual for them to see themselves being successful in their class, to see themselves being able to demonstrate, like, hey, this is something I'm able to accomplish so that they feel like they're encouraging their kids to also do well in their classes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:32]: And when you're seeing families do this together, what are we seeing on the finishing side, on the commencement and on the degree completion? Lindsay Taylor [00:14:40]: I love when I get to see the students make it through the program, but because I'm also the chapter adviser for the honor study, I get to see them again when they then become a part of the honor society, and it's often a great experience because they're like, hey. It's you. And it's so great to see that in order for them to be able to join that, they do have to meet GBA requirements. They have to be progressing through their program. So it's kind of like when you're going through a marathon and someone hands you your water and your cookie to keep going. It's like, hey. You made it this far. Look at what you're able to accomplish. Lindsay Taylor [00:15:13]: And being able to just then watch them set goals of, I wanna finish my degree by x y z date, and then some of them are towards the end of their program. So then their 3rd and final s and t meeting that they submit for their, hey, I'm only 2 classes away from my program now. And being able to see the success that they're having is just so cool to see, like, their whole journey and be a part of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:35]: We've talked a bit about success. I wanna talk a little bit about the inverse in terms of what are you seeing with your adult learner communities that might be leading to a stop out or a drop out? Lindsay Taylor [00:15:44]: I think the time management is one of the most common ones that I hear from a lot of students that come back is that life just got busy. And, I'm the first one to say life just happens a lot to adult learners. I mean, they could have cars breaking down or have something happen with their job. They get laid off or anything can happen. And it kinda goes back to, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. They have to make sure that their basic needs are being met before they can even think about their education because they often have other people that are relying on them or they have to self rely, and there's no one else that they can depend on to help them through those times. And I think those are some of the biggest causes as to why students, you know, shift out is funding life happening to mom and not really having any other support to kind of help guide them through those tough situations. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:33]: Do you have any advice for other student affairs professionals who are also supporting students in these situations? Lindsay Taylor [00:16:38]: I have found that sometimes if you can just make them realize that you're there for them, even if you're just listening and showing that empathy. If you're aware of, like, resources that are in, like, the state, being able to direct them to resources that can help. I found that that really helps because it goes beyond them thinking of you as just the man trying to get their money kind of thing to them feeling like you're actually there for them and there to support them and that you genuinely care about their success. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:10]: Are there any other activities happening in the KC right now that you want NASPA listeners to know about? Lindsay Taylor [00:17:15]: Well, we do have upcoming meetings. We usually do them the 1st Friday of every month. So I would love for more people to come to our meetings. We're always brainstorming how we can collaborate with other Casey's as well because there is a lot of intersectionality between what we do and some of the other knowledge communities as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:33]: And how can folks find you if they'd like to join? Lindsay Taylor [00:17:35]: They can find me on my LinkedIn. If they search for Lindsay Taylor, they'll be able to find me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:40]: Well, Lindsay, we are in our theme of the past, present, and future of student affairs. And this season, kind of like our season on Becoming, we have a set of questions that we're gonna be asking every guest that are specific to the past, present, and future of student affairs. So I'm gonna start with our past question, which is what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think that we should continue to carry forward? Lindsay Taylor [00:18:05]: I definitely think assessment and evaluation is something that we really should carry forward. I think it's what's led to different student development theories, but it's also we live in a society where our information is constantly being collected. So why wouldn't it be any different for a university to go beyond just the persistent measure analytics and being able to see, okay, how are our student organizations impacting persistence? Because that's part of why we do our engagement survey is to really analyze what is working and what is not, and being able to get that information from the students can be really valuable. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:41]: And moving into the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for the profession? Lindsay Taylor [00:18:46]: I think the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher end, you know, it's becoming challenging. It's something that is going well for, student affairs because it allows for students to benefit from having diverse perspectives. Especially when you look at adult learners, these are individuals that are already in the workforce. They are already being different cultures and being involved in that. I think having that ability to have DNI a part of curriculum actually allows for them to not just learn information, but then be able take that back and implement it into their lives. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:18]: Looking forward into the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to do to thrive towards our future? Lindsay Taylor [00:19:24]: I think really taking advantage of technology. Technology can be a great way to connect people, to fill in the gaps for adult learners, 1st gen, whoever the student identifies as. It helps to create communities for students to find their sense of belonging in the institution, but do it on a time frame that really works best for them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:48]: I wholeheartedly agree with you on the technology piece. I'm currently, teaching as an adjunct in a higher ed master's course, and I'm teaching a tech module. And our first lesson is gonna be all about AI and how higher ed and student affairs can harness AI for good instead of for the scary stuff. I think a lot of times because it's a bit unknown, a lot of us are a little bit like, oh. And it particularly for my colleagues in student conduct and seeing the rise of AI in what we would also call AI or academic integrity, artificial intelligence and academic integrity. It's getting to be a bit of a dicey space. So a lot for us to figure out. Lindsay, is there anything else that you'd like to share about the adult learner community or the National Honor Society that you're advising? Lindsay Taylor [00:20:31]: If I could say one thing, I wouldn't say don't be afraid of innovation. And it's the one thing that I constantly am doing is how can we make this better? What can we do that improves this? Especially, if you're engaging with your students and getting that feedback from them, bring it back to the students. Our eboard, we analyze that data from the engagement survey, and we have about 13 or so 10 to 13 student leaders on our eboard. And I will bring it back to them and say, okay. This is the feedback that you're getting from your members. What can we do? What are some solutions that you're thinking about? And then I'll even suggest things to them and say, what do you think about this? How does this look? So it allows for them to engage in things that impact others like themselves. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:15]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:21]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on as we start a brand new year. And, 1st and foremost, the 2025 Excellence Awards are now open. And any of you that wish to be able to apply for one of the Excellence Awards, and I highly encourage you to do just that, to be able to recognize the excellence awards, recognize amazing programs at our different institutions, to be able to showcase the great things that are happening and the people that are making those things happen. There's a ton of different categories and a lot of different areas that will help you to be able to bring forth these amazing services, these amazing things that are contributing to the success of our students. I highly encourage you to check them out. You can apply for an excellence award until October 9, 2024. So submit a nomination today. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:17]: The 6th Annual European Conference for Student Affairs and Services is coming up November 20th through 22nd in Saint Julien's, Malta. This conference provides a platform for student affairs professionals, academics, researchers, and policymakers to discuss innovative programs, practices, models, and trends in student affairs. This year's conference is called Universities of the Future, Empowering Student Affairs Professionals and Fostering Student Flourishing. The regular registration for this conference is going to be closing on September 17th. So you still have a little bit of time left, and I highly encourage you to take a look at it. You can find out more on the NASPA website. Just recently, the Journal of First Generation Stupid Success, volume 4 issue 2 came out. And if you have never checked out this amazing journal, this is another great resource that is provided to you as a member of NASPA, and I highly encourage you to check it out. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:10]: There's a number of great articles in this journal, including the role of family cultural capital to predicting study abroad participation in 1st generation US undergraduates. Also revisiting college access and equity, perspectives of continuing generation college students on their 1st generation peers. These are just 2 of a number of different articles in the journal itself. It's always a fascinating read, and you can find this journal and all of the journals that you have access to as a member of NASPA. On the NASPA website, when you go to the NASPA when you go to naspa.org, just go under publications, and you can find all of the journals there. Finally, I talked about the excellence awards, but there are a number of other awards that are also available to you as a NASPA member. So if you want to honor a rising mid level professional or the president of your institution or a faculty member for what they're doing in the field, consider community. Awards through most of the knowledge communities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:18]: And all of these different awards are available for individuals to be able to be considered for. And you can nominate someone until October 9th. It is really important that we recognize best practices, people and more to be able to allow for others to learn from their success. Please take a moment to nominate someone for one of these awards and help the profession to be able to recognize the great work of people and programs that are truly working to create opportunities for success for our students and our campuses. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Chris, thank you so much for getting us kicked off with NASPA World. It's always great to learn what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Lindsay, we have now reached our lightning round. I have Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Lindsay Taylor [00:26:36]: Maybe, like, ready to rock or something. Like, let's get it going. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:46]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Lindsay Taylor [00:26:50]: I don't remember when I was 5, but I know I spent a lot of time really just wanting to help others. So it's great that I get to kinda do that and then differently than I thought. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:58]: Number 3, Who's your most influential professional mentor? Lindsay Taylor [00:27:01]: So it's not, like, mine directly, but my husband worked at a community college before. And one of his managers for the fitness center, she said, never be afraid to ask the question because the worst someone can say is no. And I live that every Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:16]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Lindsay Taylor [00:27:18]: Well, right now, I'm studying for the certified student affairs educator. That was definitely the handbook. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:24]: Number 5, the best TV show that you've binged lately? Lindsay Taylor [00:27:27]: Admittedly, because I am a nineties person, I just finished rewatching all of Girl Meets World because I love Boy Meets World, and I love the Feeny call. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:37]: I've been listening to a ton of Pod Meets World. Lindsay Taylor [00:27:40]: I love that too. They're great. I love them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:43]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Lindsay Taylor [00:27:47]: Pod Meets World. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Lindsay Taylor [00:27:54]: I would like to shout out our co chair president for the adult learners, students, and children, Casey. Kelly, she's doing a fantastic job at it, and she does a great job in managing all of us co chairs, and I'm excited for what the future is gonna bring with her leadership. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:08]: Lindsay, it's been a pleasure to speak with you today. I know I've learned a lot from you, and I know our listeners will as well. I know you mentioned your LinkedIn earlier, but if anyone would like to reach you after the show, what's the best way to find you? Lindsay Taylor [00:28:19]: Definitely more on my LinkedIn because I'm on there a lot because I also manage our KC LinkedIn, and then I also manage the LinkedIn group for the Honor Society. So I'm always on there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:30]: And you can find Lindsay's spelling in the show notes. Lindsay is with an a y, so please make sure you connect with her. Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Lindsay Taylor [00:28:40]: Thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:46]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org , or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill l Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:23]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Reflecting on Student Affairs: Past, Present, and Future in Season 11 5:03

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Welcome to another enriching season of the Student Affairs Voices from the Field podcast! As we kick off Season 11, hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis dive deep into the past, present, and future of student affairs, offering a robust discussion designed to resonate with everyone from seasoned experts to fresh-faced professionals stepping into the field for the first time. This season, aptly timed as we approach fall 2024, promises to unravel layers of insight by unpacking critical themes and interviewing diverse voices within higher education. A Summer to Reflect Dr. Jill Creighton opens by setting the stage for what promises to be an impactful season. “This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink,” notes Dr. Christopher Lewis, encapsulating the whirlwind that is summer in academia. The warm months are a brief yet essential time for rest, reflection, and preparation — particularly relevant for professionals in student affairs who anticipate the fall with a mixture of excitement and, often, trepidation. As campuses spring back to life, it’s a period of rejuvenation and readiness, laying the groundwork for the academic adventures to follow. Election Year Dynamics As Dr. Creighton mentions, “Anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do.” The intersection of politics and education makes for a tumultuous landscape. Political outcomes affect campus climates, funding, and overall student wellbeing. It impacts not just the professionals within student affairs but also the students they serve. Dr. Lewis reflects on this, acknowledging the complexity that comes with trying to create a smooth transition for new and returning students amid political unrest. The 2024 election year, therefore, is expected to bring unique challenges and opportunities. How campuses handle political discourse and maintain inclusivity will be key areas of focus. Whether it involves navigating conversations about policy impacts or ensuring that marginalized voices are heard, student affairs professionals have a pivotal role in steering the educational experience during such crucial times. Exploring the Past, Present, and Future For Seasons 11 and 12, the podcast is taking a thematic approach, concentrating on the past, present, and future of student affairs. This strategic focus builds upon the success of previous seasons that examined transitions in the industry. By honing in on this comprehensive tripartite theme, the podcast aims to paint a holistic picture of where student affairs has been, where it stands today, and where it's headed. Each guest will be challenged to answer three fundamental questions about the past, present, and future of student affairs. These discussions will not only highlight individual professional areas of expertise but will also address broader functional areas and trends. Expect rich dialogue on how historical contexts have shaped current practices and how emerging trends are set to redefine the student affairs landscape. Diverse Voices Across Career Stages One of the notable features of this season is its commitment to inclusivity in terms of career stages. As Dr. Creighton points out, the goal is to engage voices from all walks of professional life. Whether you’re a retiree offering seasoned wisdom, a first-year professional with fresh insights, a grad student bringing academic rigor, or a mid-level professional balancing day-to-day operations, your story is valuable. Listeners are encouraged to contribute by recommending others or volunteering themselves to be part of this dynamic discourse. The podcast team is eager to feature a mosaic of perspectives, illustrating the diverse tapestry of experiences that comprise student affairs today. As we embark on this new season, the *Student Affairs Voices from the Field* podcast stands as a beacon for thoughtful conversation and professional development. From examining the impact of political climates on campuses to exploring the evolution of student affairs, this season sets the stage for an exciting journey through the myriad aspects of higher education. We invite you to listen, engage, and reflect as we unravel the past, present, and future of student affairs together. For those interested in contributing to the season, send your recommendations to savoices@naspa.org . Whether you're a novice or a veteran in the field, your voice matters and can profoundly impact the broader student affairs community. Catch the latest episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and don't forget to leave a review to help others discover this invaluable resource. Here's to another season of learning and growing together! TRANSCRIPTION Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. Be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Chris, we've hit fall 2024. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:29]: It's amazing. This break between season 10 and season 11 has gone by at a blink, and it has been a really quick summer. I'm glad that we're hitting the fall and we're really getting ready, not only for a new season, but a new fall with new students and just really excited about it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: I'm starting to see move in pictures for our profession. We're all headed for our next adventure around the academic calendar. And I think student affairs as a profession might be in for a little bit of a ride this fall. I think anytime we have an election year in the US, it changes the work that we do. So I'm definitely thinking about all of our colleagues out there. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:15]: Definitely hear you in that regard. I feel for the people that are not only parents that are moving their kids in for the first time or second time or third time, but for all of us as professionals that are working to make that smooth and make it a seamless transition for all of our students. But you're right. It can definitely be a very tumultuous few months as we go through this election and whatever the outcome is going to be and how that politically is going to impact how our campuses run, how it impacts our students, and more. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: With all of those impacts, as we thought about what we wanted to look at for what is now season 11, if you can believe it, of essay voices from the field. We really began reflecting on how our last seasons of 9 and 10 on transitions. It felt pretty successful for us in looking at a whole season arc on one theme. Gave us a way to focus in on what was going on. And so we're gonna try it again for seasons 11 and 12. We're gonna be looking at the past, present, and future of student affairs. And I really can't think of a better time to be doing that than right now. And so this year, kind of going back to our season on becoming, we're gonna be asking each of our guests 3 questions. 1 about the past of student affairs, one about the present, and one about the future. So in addition to learning about their professional areas of expertise, their functional areas, the work that they're doing on their campuses, and the messages they have for all of us. I really look forward to hearing their thoughts on that topic. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:45]: You know, I'm really looking forward to it as well. And I think there's going to be a wide array of individuals that have some really interesting things to say. We have some names that we're already looking at. We're excited about the people that are going to be joining us over the next year, and all this are out there. If there are people that you feel that really should be a part of this season that have compelling stories or have something that that you feel that could really add to the discourse about the past, present, and future of our profession, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at savoices@naspa.org . And we would love to be able to get your names that you're submitting in, whether it's you, whether it's someone else. Let us know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: And when we talk about past, present, and future voices, we're also looking at where you are in the tenure in your career. If you're retired, we wanna hear from you. If you are in your very first year, we wanna hear from you. If you're a grad student, we especially wanna hear from you. And if you're a mid level professional making it work day in and day out, we wanna hear from you. So please reach out. We'd love to feature your voice on the show for season 112 on the past, present, and future of student affairs. See you very soon. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: This has been an episode of SA voices from the field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at savoices@naspa.org , or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Wrapping Up Season 10: Transition Highlights and Exciting Future Plans with NASPA 2:58

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In the latest episode of “Student Affairs Voices from the Field,” hosts Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Christopher Lewis bring Season 10 to a close with transformative updates and forward-looking announcements. Dr. Creighton opens the episode by introducing the podcast's continuing focus on transitions within student affairs, a nod to the overarching theme from Season 9. However, the hosts regret to inform listeners that the promised grand finale has been postponed. In its place, listeners are treated to the exciting news of upcoming bonus episodes featuring notable guests. One of the key highlights is the announcement of Dr. Amelia Parnell as the incoming president of NASPA. Dr. Lewis shares his enthusiasm about Dr. Parnell’s upcoming appearance on the podcast, where she will discuss the future direction of the association under her leadership. Dr. Creighton encourages prospective candidates to check out the newly posted Vice President for Policy and Research position at NASPA, emphasizing the mentorship opportunities available. As the episode wraps up, Dr. Creighton expresses heartfelt gratitude to listeners for their engagement and support. She encourages them to reach out with feedback and suggestions for future episodes, and invites them to spread the word about the show. The hosts sign off, promising insightful discussions and inspirational stories in the bonus episodes to come. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:20]: Hey, Chris. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:24]: Hey, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]: Well, our finale plans have hit a bit of a transition, haven't they? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:30]: Yeah. I guess, we are finishing off our season of transitions with a transition as we move into a further transition of a new season. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:38]: So with that in mind, we know that we promised you a finale worth waiting for. And I think, first of all, we're very sorry we're not gonna be able to deliver. So we don't wanna lead you astray with our promises for a big finale, but we do wanna promise you a couple of bonus episodes for the summer, including a very special guest. Chris, do you wanna tell us who's coming on? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:57]: You know, we're really excited to have doctor Amelia Parnell joining us this summer as she transitions into the president of NASPA role. And we've already reached out, talked to her. We're getting a time with her very soon to be able to record an episode to talk about where we're at as an association, but where we're going in the future under her leadership. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:19]: And with that in mind, a huge congratulations to Emilia. We could not be more thrilled to be led by you going forward. You are going to do an amazing job, and I just am so thrilled to be seeing you at the helm of NASPA. With that in mind too, we also see Amelia's former position is now posted. So if you are interested in becoming the vice president for policy and research at NASPA, go check out NASPA's career page. You can see the details of the job description, the posting, and all of the relevant information. We know that whomever comes into that role has some huge shoes to fill, but we also know they're going to have amazing mentorship. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:01]: This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:40]: That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of…

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We'll Be Back in a Few Weeks 1:57

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We hope that you have been enjoying Season 10! We have one final episode coming for Season 10 and this is one that you will not want to miss. We will be back in a few weeks and then will be taking a break as we prepare for Season 11 of NASPA's SA Voices from the Field!

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The Journey of Dr. Vaughn Calhoun: From Athlete to Student Affairs Leader 33:08

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Transition as Growth: Vaughn's Bold Leaps from Athletics to Student Services In the heartwarming and inspiring latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast we welcomed Dr. Vaughn Calhoun, an esteemed academic leader, recounted his transformative journey from a student athlete with a career-ending injury to a beacon for change in higher education. Engineering Identity Post-Injury Calhoun began by sharing the immediate consequences of his injury and the impact it had on his self-image and life trajectory. He emphasized the importance of identity reconstruction, an experience that propelled him from a series of unfulfilling jobs to the realization that he needed to embrace authentic studenthood—a leap he bravely took by pursuing a master's degree far from the world of sports he knew. Encounters That Changed His Path One of the most pivotal moments in Calhoun's life was an encounter with a stranger at Borders bookstore who saw in him a potential future as a university athletic director. This set him on a path to his doctorate, with a determined goal to understand and improve collegiate athletics from an administrative perspective. Mentorship and Its Lasting Impact Calhoun credited much of his success to the mentors he encountered, specifically highlighting an inviting university president who believed in him and guided his professional growth. This president showed Calhoun how to harness vulnerability and understanding, which in turn helped him carve out his niche in student affairs. The Student at Heart of the Leader With a robust background in public policy and the professoriate, Calhoun brought humility and an unwavering focus on student success to his administrative roles. His approach has always been about being receptive to student needs and advocating for their growth and success, a principle he implemented in his roles at various educational institutions. Innovation and Adaptation Furthermore, Calhoun discussed the rise of AI in education and the urgent need for educators to integrate new technologies. Adaptation, he stressed, is not only inevitable but essential for student support and success, highlighting the importance of ethical considerations in the digital age. Embracing the Journey Closing the episode, Calhoun imparted advice to student affairs professionals undergoing transitions, encouraging them to focus on the process and seek mentorship. He suggests that staying authentic, seeking challenging experiences, and forming a supportive network are keys to personal and professional development. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to our next episode of student affairs voices from the field. Today, we sat down with doctor Vaughn Calhoun live and in person at the NASPA annual conference in March 2024, Seattle, Washington. Doctor Calhoun serves as the assistant vice president of student services and dean of Center For Academic Success at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey. He's been featured on a number of national platforms, including platforms, including Fortune Magazine, Education Edition, The Chronicle of Higher Ed, Inside Higher Ed, Huffington Post, NASPA Policy Briefs, and the Student Affairs Now podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]: A thought leader and commentator on issues related to the changing landscape of higher ed, doctor Calhoun believes critical dialogue is necessary to equip students for the future of work, which means cultivating adaptive learners who can thrive in a world that is increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Doctor Calhoun's leadership career spans colleges and universities in the northeast from public, private, urban, suburban, small and large institutions with enrollments from 2,000 to more than 20,000 students. This experience includes public research universities, small private liberal arts, midsize Catholic universities to a predominantly online state university. Doctor Calhoun is a graduate of Rutgers University where he earned his bachelor's of science while also participating as a full scholarship student athlete on the football team. He also earned his master's of public policy and administration from Cal State Long Beach and a doctorate of education from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Von, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:46]: Hello. How's it going? Thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: It's such a joy for me to be able to meet with guests in person because normally we're across time zones and on a Zoom box and things like that. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference to connect with us. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:59]: Absolutely. Happy to share anything and answer anything. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: In our theme of transitions, when we got your story for casting, we just looked at it and went, we really wanna talk to you. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:07]: Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:07]: Because your story, I think, is kind of unique in the world of student affairs, but also unique in that you've kind of been in a lot of different spaces before figuring out that your space, your professional purpose is here. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:20]: Absolutely. It took me a while. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: So we know you're at Seton Hall now. We always like to know how you got to that seat, but we'd love for you to trace that journey through the beginning of sport. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:29]: Wow. No. That's just fantastic question. And, you know, my journey, it's something that I could not have mapped out. Yep. It it was something that really took shape while I was a student athlete. I played football at Rutgers. And in my 1st year at Rutgers, I blew my knee out. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:45]: And that was one of those things that you always think that happens to somebody else. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:50]: Yeah. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:50]: But when it happens to you, it's kinda like, oh my god. Like, it's happening. And not long after that, my head coach, he was fired. So these 2 big life moment events happened within 3 or 4 months of each other. And while I was at Rutgers, to compound that, at least at the time, I was steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. And that set me up on a course for not necessarily focusing as much as I probably should have on academics. And once I finished at Rutgers, I always tell people I graduated there, but I wasn't necessarily educated there. And that's a huge difference. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:22]: And it took me a while to kind of contextualize, well, what happened to me? And it wasn't until I read the book, The 40,000,000 Dollar Slave, The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete, that really put it into context for me. And in particular, this book, it talks about the conveyor belt theory. Essentially, you have these institutions who go into black and brown neighborhoods and extract raw black or brown talent. And you're put on this figurative conveyor belt. And when you're on this belt, 1, you never know you're on the belt until you're off the belt. And the thing with the belt is there's always someone in front of you and someone behind you. Mhmm. And you move along this belt, and you get off the belt because you blow your knee out. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:58]: You aren't as good as they thought you were. And the consensus is next person up. And when the next person is up, you're essentially out. And when I read that, I was like, oh my god. I was a part of a system in which I didn't know until I read that. I was like, oh, that's what happened to me. And in that process, I was still trying to figure out, well, who am I now without sport? Because sport was something that I identified with since I was 6, 7 years old. And now here I am 21, 22 years old and it and it's over. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:25]: So now it's this journey of recreating myself. Like, who am I? And that led me on to going through a 1000000 different types of jobs. My first job out of college was shredding paper. Literally, shredding paper. I went back from my old school district and we were going from paper student records to electronic student records. This is 2004. And here I am, these boxes and boxes of student records. I'm literally scanning and shredding. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:50]: Wow. Scanning and shredding for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And it gave me a lot of time to think in the process, and then that's when I decide, okay. I wanna go and try to be an authentic student. Go get my masters. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanna explore this other piece of me that I didn't feel that I fully tapped into. So I ended up getting my or going to Cal State University Long Beach. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:13]: I'm originally from California. Going to Cal State Long Beach and I did my master's in public policy. And that's when I just started reading not just books on public policy, but just all types of books. Trying to figure out who am I in relation to the world. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: So you invested in your education for yourself. Absolutely. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:28]: And during this process, there were so many things that I didn't realize about the world, about myself. And also in trying to find out who I am, I started taking on even more jobs. So I sold copy machines door to door in Los Angeles. And that was just something that I think everyone should try sales at least once. Just the experience of walking up to somebody and trying to sell something. Mhmm. And I remember I had this whole script. And my thing was walking into business parks and knocking on doors and saying, hey. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:55]: Can I talk to the person in charge of document management? And they're like, what's document management? And that was my end. Once you ask me a question, I can give you my spiel. So that was an experience. I even got put on a do not enter list because I was very persistent. And I kept going back and back and back trying to get the business. And then from there, I thought, okay. Maybe I wanna be an attorney. Maybe so then I took LSATs. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:15]: And then I said, well, maybe I might not wanna be an attorney. I might wanna be a police officer. I was driving down the 405 Freeway in Los Angeles, and there's this huge billboard that said LAPD hiring starting pay with a master's degree, $70,000. So I drove home, went online, put in my application, got called back for the written exam, and then got called back for the physical exam. And after I took my physical exam, it was about a 8 month period where it's just background check. In that time, I found me another job. I started working in insurance. And it was just this whirlwind of trying to figure myself out, but it wasn't until I had this one interesting interaction at Borders bookstore. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:50]: Remember Borders? It was like, Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: oh, yeah. Mini Barnes and Noble. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:53]: Yeah. It was like it was like, you know, it was like Nike Reebok is Barnes and Noble's Borders. And I love Borders. But I walked in one day and this older gentleman looked like Bernie Sanders. Right? And he says, hey, did you play Rutgers? I'm like, mind you, I'm in Long Beach, California. How in the world does this guy know I played? And I barely even played. But I had a Rutgers Football t shirt on. He's, oh, okay. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:12]: He says, oh, it must have been a fantastic experience. Right? So, you know, older gentleman. So I sit down and have a conversation with them. And at the end of the conversation, you know, after I share my story with him, he goes, I can see it now. Vaughn Calhoun, athletic director, USC, Stanford, University of Texas. I'm like, oh, I've never even thought about myself in that way. Right? And he was the first gentleman, the first person who kinda put in my mind that I can maybe fix college athletics or do something about it because my experience as a student athlete wasn't the greatest one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: He was a total stranger. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:43]: Absolutely. Total stranger. Did did know him, but we spent at least an hour with each other. And subsequently, we kept talking, kept meeting with each other and he even introduced me to his network who was a sitting athletic director in Los Angeles. So he said, hey, I want you to meet my buddy. I'm like, okay. So now there's this whole world of college athletics on the administration side that I didn't know exist. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't know, like, that was a path that I could take. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:06]: So now this is 2,008. I just got married and if you recall, we had the financial meltdown and crisis in the world was just going in bad places. And I decided in that period of time that I'm gonna leave my job and move across the country to pursue my doctoral degree. And everyone thought I was nuts. Even my parents, like, what are you doing? You're leaving because at the time, I was working at for a local government agency making, you know, pretty decent money. And I said, you know what? The money at that time money's important, but it wasn't important. Right? I said, this is the thing that I wanna do because I said, I wanna understand how a college works and where does athletics fit within an institution of higher education so I can be an athletic director and fix it. And then here I am moving to Boston. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:49]: Literally, set my car, My wife and I are now newlyweds in Boston. And I remember as I'm going through this transition, I get to my last year of my doctoral program, and my dean and I get very friendly. And he says to me, listen, Vaughn. I know what you're trying to do. You wanna fix college athletics, but the way that you feel about it, 1, are they gonna let you in? And 2, if they do let you in, do you have to uphold the system in which you don't believe in? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:14]: I was like, oh, dang. Those are some great questions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:16]: That's a hard hard dissonance to deal with. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:18]: And I was like, what do I do? He said, well, I have door number 2. I said, well, what's door number 2? He said, you can teach. I said, who the heck am I gonna teach? And he said, listen, because my dissertation was on student athletes who were academically clustered, steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. It was a qualitative research study looking at the lived experience of student athletes who were clustered. So he says, I want you to come into my undergraduate class and just give a presentation on it. Right? So I said, okay. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:42]: So I did it once, did it twice, and then he says, do you feel comfortable with that now? I said, yeah. I feel pretty good because the students were very engaging. I was like, oh, this this is teaching, Oh, I can do this. He says, okay. Now I want you to start applying to faculty jobs. I was like, oh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:53]: Oh, he's pathwaying you. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:54]: I was like, oh, you we didn't say I was like and he said just start applying. So I was like, alright. Let me start applying. So here I am, and now I'm sitting in these faculty interviews. And, hate to say this, even when I was in college, I didn't read my first book until spring semester senior year, cover to cover. So now here I am in these faculty interviews talking about my academic and teaching philosophies and all these things. And, you know, not in my distant past, I was that student who was just kind of out there and and not being a real student. Right? So I get a callback and says, you're hired. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:10:27]: I was like, oh, wow. Right? And that was just, you know, my pathway into higher ed working for a business department, at a small private liberal arts outside of Boston. And as I'm going through this, it really just, one, changed the way that I just thought about just myself in this phase of just recreation that I could create a new identity outside of just sports. But interestingly, I had a buddy who was moving from Maryland up to Boston at this one particular college. And I've heard of it. I drove past it every day. I didn't know much about it. And this college had a black male sitting college president. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:03]: I was like, that's pretty awesome. You don't really see that in particular within, like, Massachusetts. Mhmm. So I just Google searched him and he had these interviews and articles. So he's a really dynamic individual. So literally, on a Saturday morning, pulled my phone out, saw he had a Twitter, I tweeted at him. I was like, hey, you inspire me. And a few minutes later, he tweeted back. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:24]: He was like, thanks. So like, oh, you answered your old tweets. This is awesome. So I said, hey. Can I so now now I was like, okay? He I got him engaged. So I said, this is my opportunity. So I said, okay. I tweeted again, can I have the informational interview? Right? And I heard nothing. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:37]: I was like, oh, okay. You know, people are busy Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]: you know. Shot. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:40]: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna shoot You know, either 1 or 2 things can happen. You make it or you miss it. Yeah. But 2 weeks later, I get an email from his executive assistant that says, you know, the president wants to meet you. I was like, oh, this is awesome. So now this is August 2015. So I go sit in the president's office. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:56]: We were there for 3 hours literally. Wow. Just talking about his career, how he did what he did, why he did it, talked about myself, what I wanna do, what I think I wanna do. And in that meeting, he said to me, you can be a college president. I was like, woah. Again, right, just having these individuals, I couldn't plan for that. Right? So a few months later or within this interim period, we would text and talk. He introduced me to his network, and my job's August 20 15. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:21]: So a few months later, December 2015 and again, we never talked about jobs. Just philosophy about life and stuff. And he says, I wanna offer you a job. I want you to work for me. I was like, oh, okay. I got a job over here, but I like what you're saying just in terms of just his energy and enthusiasm. So I went and worked for this guy, and he would literally bring me into meetings I had no business being in. He hired me as an an assistant professor, which eventually I I was elevated to the chair of the chair of the department sitting as a faculty chair. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:51]: But I would go into these executive cabinet meetings and literally just sit on the wall with, you know, all the other VPs and they're all kinda looking at me, like, why is this guy here? And after every meeting, we would just have conversation about, okay, this is what's happening. This is why I said this, this, that, and the third. And, you know, this just happened, you know, over the next few years. And in this period of time, you know, he would bring me, like, literally into his, like, his personal life. Right? You know, he would bring me into his home with my wife and my son, you know, and and talk with his family, his wife, his kids. It it just became this this really awesome dynamic. And one day I just asked him, like, why are you doing this? Because he was just so generous. And he said, because someone did it for me. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:30]: I just asked that you do this for somebody else. I was like, I got you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:33]: Paying it forward in mentorship. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:35]: Absolutely. Right? So, and one of the things he said, by you working for me you're gonna know the questions to ask. I was like, I don't know what that means. So as I'm going up from my first AVP position, I was able during the interview to really diagnose and break down some of the nuances and ask these very specific questions. And I ended up getting the job, and I remember calling him after the final interview. He was like, I understand what you mean. I knew the questions to ask. Right? And I think those questions help separate me in terms of just how I looked at the position. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:06]: But, you know, it was just through these events and people, I couldn't have planned this out. And when I talk about this transition, it's just a lot of constant movement but being open to that movement. Being open to being vulnerable. Being open to saying, okay. I don't know what this is, but I wanna explore it. And that's one of the things that I share with a lot of my mentees. It's put yourself out there. Ask those questions because if you don't ask, you're not gonna know. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:29]: So I think these are the these things that we don't often talk about in particular, leaning into your network, finding those mentors. And I think mentorship becomes very cliche, like, find a mentor, have this mentor, but, no, really build those authentic relationships. And that has helped me tremendously. I couldn't be in this position without those individuals or it would have took me much much longer to sit in the seat at Seton Hall. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:50]: That is an extraordinary journey from being a d one football player to weaving your way through to this dean of students path now. Do you still see yourself on that pathway to a college presidency? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:02]: I aspire to higher leadership and I know that sometimes we're in such a hurry to get there. But in getting there, you're learning so many lessons. Even in in these past few years, I've learned so many lessons just about myself, about how to manage and lead people. Mhmm. So I definitely see myself on that trajectory and I definitely wanna get there. But one thing someone told me is like don't rush the process. Right? The process is the process. You know, you don't wanna end up getting there and not being ready for it. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:31]: So I'm very mindful of that and and making sure that I'm putting myself in positions to sit on different committees, to be a part of conversation that make me a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, I don't know too much about the nuances of finance and budgeting, but let me sit there with it. And I think if I continue doing these things, doing good work, opportunities will present itself. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:49]: You've had a nontraditional education path into student affairs itself. How did you get yourself up to speed with all of the student affairs literature and practice knowing you come from that MPP background, that faculty end. And student affairs for those of us who've kind of been in the field a while, I think there's generally a point of frustration when we see someone who's come from a pathway that didn't include that student development foundation, and then all of a sudden we're being led by this person. So how did you come from that place of humility while still bringing your expertise that you definitely had in the public policy space? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:16:20]: Yeah. I think one thing for me is I know that I don't know, and I'm not afraid to tell folks that I don't know that I need your help. And I think when you lead with that, folks typically look at that as a point of humility. I'm not gonna say I know more than you. Because truth is, you know, any new job that you walk into, folks who are there know more than you about that particular institution. So earlier in my career, part of what I did was I was an assistant athletic director for 3 and a half, 4 years at a small private liberal arts and reported up to the dean of students and we were housed within student affairs. So I was always a part of those a lot of my job was around the student success on the athletic side, but it was for a division 3 institution. Mhmm. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:05]: So the dynamics are a little bit different than division 1 where the emphasis on division 3 is the whole student. And division 1 does that, but I think more so like division 3, it is just part of the culture and fabric of we know that. More times than not, no one's turning pro. That's not what our goal is. We're not trying to generate revenue in that sense. And then for me, I got into this because I was driven by my own negative experience. Mhmm. So student success and making sure that students are always at the top of mind is something that I always talk about and that I always lead with. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:36]: So when people hear my story and when when people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, knowing that I have this background that is a little unique, but it's always toward that north star of how are we helping our students. And I think once that gets conveyed and understood, it helps galvanize people. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:51]: How did that student athlete experience inform how you practice in student affairs now? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:56]: Being a student athlete, at least at the time, I felt that I wasn't heard, wasn't necessarily valued. So anytime I see a student engage with a student, I wanna make sure that they're heard, that they're validated. Because when in particular, if a student reaches my office, usually something didn't go right at some point along the way. Right? And whatever their challenges are is the most important thing to them in that moment. And me being a former just student athlete knowing that I wish I had an advocate, I wish I had someone who could really just stand up for me. I take that mindset. And even when I get these parent calls, knowing that I wish that my parents could have engaged with somebody and someone would have been receptive. So always taking that to heart and make sure that I never forget that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: You've navigated a lot of change very successfully. Change and the mindset that you bring and kind of your philosophy around how you make transitions? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:18:55]: Yeah. You know, change is the really only constant and being open to it. Because I think so many times, generally speaking, folks are opposed to change because you always ask yourself, what does this mean for me? What am I gonna lose versus, well, what could I gain? And I always took the perspective of there are some things that I don't know that I know that I need to experience these things in order to become a better person and to elevate in my career. So if I would just sit back and what's comfortable, I'm not gonna grow. And interestingly, my son, he's 9 years old. And that's one thing that I really try to challenge him with. Right now he's doing Taekwondo and he's on the sparring team. And it can be pretty tough. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:19:30]: He has a really old school hard nose instructor. And my son always talks about, oh, this is getting tough. It's getting tough. I said, no. The tough part means that this is your growth phase. These are when the moments of you're gonna question yourself, but what are you gonna do in those moments? Are you gonna sit back or are you gonna meet the challenges? And that's something as a former student athlete, we couldn't just sit back and be comfortable. Because if we sit back and be comfortable, there's someone else that's working when we're not working. So constantly trying to say, how can we get better? How can we get that edge? Edge? And I take that with changes. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:01]: Things are moving. Right? And if I don't try to keep up with the change or get ahead of the change, we're going to be stunted in some way. And at the end of the day, the students will suffer for it. And I really think about this right, so when we think about AI, and I think one of the first reactions a year or so ago was this is the worst thing in the world. It's going to crush teaching. It's gonna crush learning. In some regards, it might to a certain extent, but also what are the opportunities of helping individuals? What are the opportunities in which we can streamline? And because students are going to enter a world that's AI driven, if we just turn our heads to that and pretend that it doesn't exist, we're doing them a disservice. Mhmm. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:36]: So how can we as a college community, staff, and faculty, educate ourselves so we can best educate our students and talk about it through through the lens of ethics. Talk about it through the lens of how these new technologies, though it could be different and scary, are gonna be the things that they're gonna need to be successful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]: Well, and also AI is just not ChatGPT alone. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:56]: Absolutely. And I think Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: that's been kind of the narrative in higher ed, that ChatGPT is the end of academic integrity. But there are also institutions that are using it really well for, like, auto replies when students need information Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:06]: That's right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:07]: At 2 in the morning. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:07]: That's right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:08]: Or, you know, texting services or or whatever. So there's lots of cool opportunities, but then there's also ethical issues around copyrights and particularly with arts. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:17]: Correct. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Things like that, so but I also came aware recently of an AI repository that's cataloging, like, millions of research papers, which will be an incredible resource for doctoral students of the future, which which I wish I had access to when I was doing my doctorate. So it'll make the lit review process faster in some ways, but I think also will start to discourage people from reading whole articles. I mean, let's be honest, we're always skimmers anyway, but but I think that will be a fascinating evolution too. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:41]: Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: Do you have any advice for student affairs professionals that are in their own space of transition right now? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:46]: I think for anyone in the space of transition, knowing that it's gonna be difficult to a certain extent, but also knowing that if you just stayed where you're at, can you really grow? And sometimes you have to go out and put yourself in those vulnerable positions. As simple as asking for a mentor. Asking someone, will you mentor me? And again, for me, it's they can either say 1 or 2 things. They can say yes, or they can say no, or they don't respond. But what I think, you know, going through transition just knowing, focusing on the process and not the outcome and knowing that the journey will be the journey, whatever that journey, whatever that process is, and just focus on doing good work, Focus on being as authentic as you can, and focus on surrounding yourself with individuals who will speak life and encourage you. And also make sure you have those individuals who tell you the truth because we don't always just want cheerleaders around. We want those individuals say, hey. Can I give you some constructive criticism or some critiques? And that's where you can learn the most so you don't have as many gaps as you would if you didn't have those individuals there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:41]: And if you're able to hear that when it's given. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:43]: Yes. Right. You gotta be open to that. Because some people, you know, the the the Eagles can be very fragile, but you have to be able to really take that to say, okay. You know, they're saying this because they wanna help me, not hurt me in most cases. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Mhmm. I think that can be quite dependent on the, the provider of that advice. Absolutely. Solicited or unsolicited. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:59]: And if you don't ask to to solicit something from somebody, why would you listen to someone that you wouldn't solicit information from? So for me, it's making sure that you have good people around you who really care for your best interest. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]: Is there anything that you did in a transition that you look back and say, wow, I wish I would've done that a little differently? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:15]: I think it's always hard to gauge what you're gonna walk into. And you have an idea of what a situation is, but you never know what it's going to be until you actually get there. So for me, it's really just ground myself in knowing who I am and knowing my strengths as well as knowing where my gaps are and just being just just very honest with myself about that. And that can be hard for folks. Right? Every time, you know, folks say, you know, I I know all these things and I can do this. And you wanna be that go getter, but also at the same time, just just knowing that constantly learn as much as you can. And learning people, learning programs, and learning processes. Like, those like my 3 p's. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:51]: I wish I would've known that about 10 years ago, but every institution, there's people, there's programs, there's processes. Learn those as quickly as you can. Mhmm. And knowing that the process, again, will be the process. And have a lot of those informal conversations as much as you can and just getting to really know individuals as individuals. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. There's a brand new Leadership Exchange Magazine that recently came out for spring 2024. And if you've never read the Leadership Exchange, you definitely should. The Leadership Exchange is the magazine for all of our chief student affairs officers that NASPA puts out a number of times throughout the year. And this Springs Leadership Exchange Magazine is focused around preserving campus discourse. Inside of this magazine, you're going to see some amazing articles throughout the entire magazine that do talk about campus discourse and what you can do on your own campus to be able to protect free speech on your campus. There are some articles about visibility and promoting Afro Latinx students, understanding professional certification, and how you can elevate your own division through professional certification, and also talking about some of the stories of student affairs and also talking about some of the stories within student affairs. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:14]: These magazines are not just written for vice presidents for student affairs. So don't let that turn you away from learning, from reading this and taking out of it some amazing kernels of knowledge. You can access this on the NASPA website. Go to the NASPA website, click on public publications, and you'll see the Leadership Exchange is one of the publications that is available to you as a member. Also, there's a few other NASPA books that I wanted to share with you that you may find very helpful on your own campuses and in the work that you do. 1st and foremost is a book called Small and Mighty Student Affairs at Small Colleges and Universities. This book explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and action to take for and in support of to take for in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]: Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration, and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions, innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities today. This book was written by Carol Livingston, Krista Porter, and Thomas Shandley and it is a amazing book for anyone working at a small college or university. And I highly encourage you to pick up a copy today. Now this season we've been talking about transitions and one of the big transitions that many student affairs professionals will go through in their career is supervising others. Another book that is available is called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs. Supervised practice has become a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: Becoming a supervisor is a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. With a focus on the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas as the bedrock for enhancing proficiency in the field. This book is designed to introduce the competency areas as they relate to supervised practice in graduate preparation programs. Chapters examine how to design experiences for students in the workplace that align with the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas, create condition for graduate students to understand the application of theory within the workplace, establish an environment that promotes an understanding of the supervisory role as it relates to socializing and retaining new professionals in student affairs, create learning partnerships that focus on the intersection of individual development and the acquisition of knowledge and skills for administrative practice, develop professional philosophy of practice in the digital age, and assess the professional competency areas within the graduate the graduate practicum and employee experience to ensure learning and development. If you supervise graduate students or want to supervise graduate students in the future as they prepare to be professionals in the field, a brand new book called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs is definitely a book you wanna pick up. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:22]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on going on in and around NASPA. And, Vaughn, we have now reached our lightning round. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:28]: Awesome. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:32]: Oh, alright. I'll do I'll do my best. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]: Bring out your competitive story. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:41]: Oh, my god. Oh, jeez. It would be something with, my favorite artist. One of my favorite artist is Jay z. I don't know what, but something within his catalog. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:53]: I wanted to be a San Francisco 49er. I wanna be just like Jerry Rice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:00]: Oh, that would be Dr. Robert Johnson, the current president of Western New England University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:06]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs read. Anything that deals with student success. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:14]: Oh, Ballers with Dwayne Rock Johnson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:17]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:21]: Steven Bartlett, The Diaries of a CEO. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:27]: Absolutely. I love to shout out my wife who's always been there for me, who's been a constant truth teller, but in a very loving way. And I'll also shout out my son. He's 9 years old. He keeps me young, and he keeps me on my toes as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:40]: Von, it's been just a joy to get to know you today. I'm very grateful that you took some time out of your conference to speak with us here on SA Voices. And if others would like to speak with you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:50]: They can find me on LinkedIn, Vaughn Calhoun, or they can find me at my email, Vaughn.calhoun@shu.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:58]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and your story with us today. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:32:01]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

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Dr. Stacey Malaret on Bridging Gaps Between Academia and Student Affairs Roles 23:50

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Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast. This week we had an insightful conversation from our podcast with Dr. Stacey Malaret, a seasoned authority in student affairs, recorded at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle. Transitioning Roles: Administrator to Educator During the episode, Dr. Malaret, who has worked in student development since 1999 and serves as the Director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF, shared her insights on balancing administrative duties with academic responsibilities. She teaches leadership studies and serves on dissertation committees, embodying the blend of practitioner and scholar. Generational Shifts in Leadership Dr. Malaret highlighted the generational changes from millennials to Gen Z, stressing the unique leadership development needed for today's diverse student populations. UCF's Lead Scholars Academy and U-LEAD programs are testament to her progressive and adaptive methods, which now include a virtual leadership academy initiated eight years ago. The Online Learning Curve Our discussion also shed light on the augmented reality of higher education - online learning. Dr. Malaret emphasized the myth of online courses being 'easier', arguing that self-motivation is key to success in a digital classroom. While the asynchronous nature of online courses provides flexibility, it also demands a greater level of self-drive and discipline from students. Bridging Academic and Student Affairs A significant portion of our dialogue revolved around understanding the interplay between academic and student affairs. As a faculty member, Dr. Malaret brings a unique perspective to student success, bridging curricular and co-curricular experiences. Her involvement at both ends of the educational spectrum allows her to witness firsthand the impact of out-of-class experiences on academic success. Advice for Aspiring Educators For those aspiring to transition into teaching, Dr. Malaret suggested volunteering as a teaching assistant or adjunct professor to gain valuable classroom experience. She advised that understanding the academic calendar and significant dates can help student affairs professionals to be more empathetic and supportive of students during stressful times like finals and midterms. The Balancing Act Dr. Malaret affirmsedthat engaging in the classroom will enrich the abilities of student affairs professionals, influencing workshops, presentations, and even student interactions. By wearing multiple hats and thriving in each, Dr. Malaret serves as an inspirational figure for those navigating the complex landscape of student affairs and higher education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today, we welcome our next guest who we were able to sit down with at the NASPA annual conference in Seattle, Washington this March 2024. Welcome to doctor Stacey Mallaret, originally from Orlando, Florida, and who attended the University of Southern Mississippi for her bachelor of arts degree in psychology. She then graduated in 1998 from the University of Central Florida with the master of arts in student personnel, and in 2007 with her in educational leadership. She's worked in the student affairs development field since 1999, and currently serves as the director for the Lead Scholars Academy at UCF. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: She teaches educational leadership, strategies for success and leadership studies classes, in addition to chairing and serving on dissertation committees. Alright. Stacey, welcome to essay voices. Thank you. And we are recording live at the NASPA annual conference today. We're in a meeting room right now. So for our listeners, there's audio quality differences that you're noticing. It's we're really live in person, and so it's it's not a frequent thing that I get to interview frequent thing that I get to interview guests in person, so this is a really big treat for me as well. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:17]: Oh, me too. Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:18]: And you're at the University of Central Florida, and you have multiple hats, both as an administrator and as a faculty member. So we're gonna be talking today mostly about your transition between those two spaces and how those kind of supplement your work and understanding as a practitioner. Great. But we love to always start by asking our guests, how did you find your way into your current seat? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:01:39]: Well, back in the 1900, as my children would say, I was a really involved student leader. My father used to say I majored in Delta Zeta because that's all I talked about. Didn't really talk about my classes. And I think I had the traditional tap on the shoulder saying, hey. Have you heard about student affairs type of conversation? And I did my research pre Internet, you know, to try to find, you know, different institutions. And I ended up going to, actually, University of Central Florida for my master's. I'm from Orlando originally. Got an assistantship, worked in student activities, got my first job in student activities. And also, during my grad program, had a practicum teaching a SLS course as a strategies and learning success course at a, say, college with shout out to Dana Gentlemen, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now, and Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:32]: so shout out to Dana Genten, who's a good colleague that I've known for a long time now. And so whenever I meet someone from UCF, I always think of her. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:42]: Yes. I know Dana very well. Please tell her I said hi. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:43]: I will. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:43]: Back to your campus. So talk first a little bit about your day job. What is it that you're doing in the student affairs world mostly? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:02:49]: So I am a director of our leadership programs area. It's called the LEAD Scholars Academy. It's an academic and co curricular leadership development program for incoming 1st year students, and then we also have a program for upper class students, which we call U LEAD. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: It's been an interesting generational transition time right now between what we thought millennials needed in leadership space to now what we're seeing Gen Z is needing and they're very different things. What are you doing to adapt your practice to the generational mindset that we're seeing now? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:18]: Well, one thing that we started probably about 8 years ago is a virtual leo Leadership Academy. It has 8 different modules on various leadership topics that any student with a UCF ID can log in and do at their leisure. We did that because we found that students wanted that virtual space as available to them. Whether or not they take advantage of it is another question. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:40]: Of course. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:03:41]: But they wanted to have that. And I've seen different colleagues who have used that for training their own student leaders. So if maybe they couldn't take a leadership class, this was kind of the next best thing that they could say, okay. Well, before you become a peer mentor with us or a resident assistant or orientation leader or what have you. Take this virtual leadership academy so you get the basics of what leadership is as part of their training process. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:04]: And you said that was developed 8 years ago. Correct. So you were doing virtual online learning before it was cool? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:09]: We were ahead of the curve. Yes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:12]: So as you're looking ahead, how has that curriculum evolved over time? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:16]: Well, we have adopted the social change model as our basis for leadership development, but then we've supplemented throughout the years with other leadership theories, and we started doing strengths quests this past year. So we've been adding to the social change model as our base what we think would be good for students to learn and know about themselves and others. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:40]: For those who aren't familiar with the social change model, can you give us a a 30 second CliffsNotes? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:04:45]: Sure. So Susan Komaviz is one of the authors of the social change model, and it focuses on individual values, group values, and societal values, and how to make the world a better place. So learning about yourself, learning how to work with others, and learning how to take that knowledge and help with your community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: It's a unique leadership model because it's one of the few that was co developed in community with other leaders as opposed to one person being, like, here's my idea of leadership. So they kind of modeled their own leadership values and theory by creating it in their way. So if you've not read The Social Change Model, I would encourage you to do so. And, also, it's one of those ones that has a beautiful abbreviation. They always talk about the 7 c's and the 3 buckets. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:05:24]: And students really resonate with it because they can say, oh, well, I focus on this c, or I focus on, you know, collaboration or consciousness of self. I learned in strengths quest. I learned this about myself, and I'm able to relate it to a model. So it makes them feel a little bit more connected with our curriculum. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:42]: And one of my favorite things about the 7 c's model too is that you can really focus kind of in a module based form on each of the c's as opposed to, kind of looking at this long nebulous trajectory of leadership. You can really, really kind of narrow in on common purpose or civility Contribution. Yeah. Those types of things. So there's a lot of amazing institutions doing good work with Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:03]: Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:03]: This framework right now. I actually just had a conversation this morning in the Global, Division Leadership Board with a good colleague from South Africa who was saying, oh my gosh, we're using the social change model at our universities at Stellenbosch in South Africa, and I also see us talking about it here in the US. So that one's really permeating right now. And then your side hustle quote unquote is working as a faculty member. What are you doing in that space? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:29]: So I teach a Strategies for Success course for incoming freshmen, and I also teach in the higher ed program as well at our institution. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:37]: And I believe you're also advising doctoral Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:06:47]: their their dissertation chair, and then I also serve on committees as well. And that's a great way to help with the highest level students going into this field or just wanting to further their education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:59]: You're really spanning the corners of the Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:01]: Freshman to doctorate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: Yes. Freshman to doctorate from Orlando to Seattle. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:06]: Right. And I and I actually were in Seattle, and I took a walk yesterday around town, and I passed by the City University of Seattle campus. I took a picture. I was like, oh, maybe I should go and get my faculty ID. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:16]: Did you get it? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:17]: No. It was Sunday, so I didn't. But I was like, maybe I should today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: I think that's a be a fun souvenir from Yeah. Your trip to Seattle. And in thinking about what you're seeing in evolution and transition of the research right now, I know we went through a period of time where everyone was really intense about wanting to research the impacts of the pandemic. And I think we're starting to see that soften a little bit on the research and and now. What are you seeing that doctoral students are most interested in studying in the present? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:07:42]: Well, I have a lot of students who are studying diverse components of higher education. So, for example, the black woman's experience in the faculty world. Or I have one who's focusing on humor and how practitioners need humor in order just to get through the day. And so how do they cope with their day to day job? So it's very diverse. I don't have a really one area that students are picking up. It really depends on their individual interest. I Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:19]: education faculty space. Mhmm. Because I think in our academy, you know, that we do have a knowledge community here in NASPA called Student Affairs Partnering with Academic Affairs, but those who are not insiders to higher ed don't necessarily understand the level of chasm that can exist between administration side and faculty side. So Yeah. I'd love to hear about how you transition your mindset between both roles, and then also kind of bring those pieces together for your colleagues that are in either space. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:08:45]: Well, first, in order to kinda get into the space, you need experience to get the experience, which is kind of the mantra in student affairs. And so if we have graduate students listening, I would say volunteer to serve as a graduate teaching assistant for free with a faculty member, whether it's a freshman seminar course or a leadership course or something that is more aligned with the student affairs area. Freshman seminar strategies for success, things like that are college one zero one courses are typically the one that has the biggest comparison to student affairs and biggest likeliness to have some topics that are in both areas. So I would say volunteer. Even if you're a practitioner, see if you could volunteer. Mhmm. You know, because that's how I got my first side hustle gig when I was working in student activities. I did that one GTA experience for a practicum and it was on my resume and they needed an adjunct for a freshman seminar course. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:09:38]: And they said, Stacey, you have experience. You could do this. And I kinda faked it till I made it. I was like, sure. I could do this. And just kind of struggled along and had mentors who were faculty members, like, you know, asked them, can you share your lesson plans? Can you give what you do? And I think that's really important the first time you teach is find someone who's taught it before to help you along. And so I think that there is a great relationship between teaching those types of courses and being a practitioner because you're able to see the students in a different mindset. Mhmm. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:10:08]: You can read their reflections that they may have spoken to you individually about how they're doing or about their academic advising. So there's a great relationship between student success coaching, academic advising, and teaching a freshman seminar type class. Because in my class, I have them talk about what they're taking next semester, Have them talk about what their major is, what they wanna do when they graduate. And those are all conversations that practitioners have normally with students. It's just in a more academic context, and you're grading them. You wouldn't grade them talking to them. Right. But you'd be grading them about their ability to reflect, and I think it's a great way to get to know the students in a different lens. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: I am curious if you have any advice for practitioners who are looking to teach their first course, but do need to be or deserve to be compensated for that first course because it's a great privilege to be able to volunteer one's time for that type of thing. And in student affairs especially, I think we give away our time for free a lot. Yes. And so how would you kind of take that first step inside of that world if you do want to or need to be paid for that work? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:11]: Well, I would first talk to whoever the department chair is and say what is the compensation for adjuncts. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:16]: Mhmm. Which we know is not great. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:18]: Yeah. It could range anywhere from 1,000 to 5 $1,000, I've seen. And, you know, try to get your foot in the door and get one of those classes, and then you can expand to other universities. It doesn't have to be the one that you work at. You can work for a community college or an online university. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:34]: Mhmm. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:11:35]: Sometimes they would require additional credentials, especially if you're teaching online to learn how to work the learning management system and develop modules online. I think a lot of faculty ask me for my program. They're like, oh, I can teach online. And I'm like, it's not that easy. No. You know, you have to learn how to teach online before you can teach online. And I think a lot of people are unaware of that back end work. And so if there's a way that you can do that ahead of time, get that credential, talk to your faculty center for teaching and learning or whatever it may be called your institution and ask, how do I get credentialed to teach online? If you have that already, you're a much more viable candidate to teach. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:16]: We're talking about micro credentials. We're not talking about Right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:19]: No. No. No. Going back for another degree. No. No. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:21]: It would be probably an online course that you would take, a zero credit online course. Just to learn how to navigate your learning management system back end and how to engage students in an online format, things like that. And then use that to your advantage when you're asking about teaching and you might be chosen over others for that paid work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:39]: And pedagogy is so different in online teaching versus kind of that live in person instruction. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:12:44]: Right. Learning how to be interactive with discussion boards because you're not gonna have that discussion. I do a live session every week on the chapter, and I teach the chapter. Whether or not students show up for that is a different thing, but I record them and I post them. And I think even if they don't watch them, I think students, knowing that they can, makes them feel more connected to the class, or at least I like to think so. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:07]: Well, online learning, I also feel like is the the wave of how we create access in higher education. Because of that asynchronous modeling, it allows people who have full time jobs or parenting schedules or other caregiver schedules or just unpredictable hours at their work to be able to engage in their course more effectively. I took a couple of online courses in my doctoral program, and it was fascinating how much I could learn from others through discussion boards, which was not something that I expected going into the process. Right. And then really felt by the time we got to meeting in person that I I kind of knew people and how they thought about things even though we had never had a live synchronous conversation. It's an interesting process. So when you are working with students in that online space, talk about the transition that you're seeing in their expectations for a class versus how they end up engaging. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:13:54]: I think sometimes students think that online classes are going to be easier. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:59]: They're so much harder than in person. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:01]: They they just think, oh, I'll just take it online, and I think that the motivation in online classes is tougher because you're not having that professor in front of you saying, this is due on Friday. Mhmm. You have to have the ability to go to the calendar and to log in to we use Canvas on a daily basis and see what's on your to do list. And have that self motivation to actually work on those assignments. So I think that's the toughest thing is, you know, I have more students fail in the online course sections than in the face to face course sections because I think that motivation is something that can't be taught and some students think that they're taking the easy way out by taking the online section. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:44]: And it's a much more self intrinsically motivated space. Right. Because oftentimes in the in person space it's a lot of work to get yourself to the class, but once you're in the class, it's easier to turn your brain on because you're in a focused time. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:14:55]: Right. And you're surrounded by like minded students, hopefully, who are wanting to do well, and when you surround yourself with others who want to do well, you rise to the occasion. Whereas in an asynchronous space, you're alone, unless you are really engaging in those discussion boards. But even if you are, sometimes it's harder to feel that sense of urgency to do well in the class when you don't see others also. What do Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:20]: you want student affairs practitioners to know, who haven't been in the classroom side about what we should be paying attention to that maybe we're not seeing in our day to day interactions with students. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:15:30]: Well, I think it's really important to know what's going on in the academic side of the house. Student affairs sometimes are siloed and don't think about student credit hour dollar generation or faculty policies or withdraw dates and things like that because they are focusing on the out of class experience. But students don't come typically to a university because of the out of class experiences. They're going because they have their major or they really like the academic rigor or they are is about the academics that they're drawn to because as we all know, they're a student leader, not a leader student. Mhmm. So academics you know, more about what's going on and the timelines, you should know when midterms are because you're going to be able to see a difference in your student. And you'll know when finals are because you might need to be more lenient with what the expectations are for your student leaders that week. So I think by being in the classroom, you're in tune with that schedule and what students are going through, and also are able to help support your students more because of your awareness. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:41]: What about in the inverse? What do you think that faculty are missing about the student affairs world, and how are you bringing that message in the other direction? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:16:48]: Yeah. I don't think faculty realize how important it is for students to be involved to develop those soft skills, which are so important in the real world regardless of what career path a student will go into. I'd like to tell students that your resume will get you the job, but your leadership skills get you the promotion. So sometimes faculty forget about those leadership skills and how important it is to be involved as a student leader so that you can gain those skills. So that when they are in the field that you are teaching in, they can rise and become stronger advocates for your field and to rise in different positions of the chain. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:26]: Any final thoughts for our listeners on the transitions between the faculty seat and the student affairs practitioner seat? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:17:34]: I would say teaching is a lot of fun. It really helps you think about the student experience in a different lens, and it's gonna make you a better practitioner practitioner if you're able to teach in the classroom because you're going to first learn about yourself and how to how to talk to students, how to interact with students, and that's going to translate into your practitioner role when you're doing workshops and presentations and even interviewing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:00]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:06]: Thanks so much, Joe. Great to be back in the NASPA world. And recently, there has been some transformative news about the future of the Center For First Generation Student Success that I wanted to share with all of you today. Since its founding in 2017 as a joint initiative between NASPA and the Souter Foundation, the center has enjoyed great success built upon the foundation set by Eric and Deb Suter and their success with the original First Scholars model. The center has far surpassed NASPA's original goals. Now with 27 staff members, the center offers a wide array of programmatic offerings, national events, informative research, and of course, a robust and growing network of partners at 349 institutions representing 49 states and the District of Columbia. When you combine that with the professional development, research, data, networking, advocacy, and all the other resources provided by the center, and you can easily see why it's become the premier organization in the field of 1st generation student success. The success has prompted the center to take the next step in its evolution. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:15]: The Center For First Generation Student Success is becoming its own 501c3 organization. The vision and goals since inception was for NASPA to incubate the center until it was established as a leader in the field. While it will technically be a separate organization, the center will remain strategic partners with NASPA, the professional home for student affairs and an organization that is committed to cultivating student success. NASPA's long standing partnership with Eric and Deb Souter and the Souter Foundation as cofounders remains vital to the center's success. Since partnering with NASPA to create the center, the suitors commitment to the continuous growth and long term sustainability of the organization is the foundation on which the center's success is built, while their passion for creating economic opportunity and belief in the potential of 1st generation students is unparalleled. The transition to a 501c3 organization offers many benefits, providing more partner opportunities for higher education institutions, more ways for the philanthropic community to influence 1st generation success and outcomes 1st generation success and outcomes, and more opportunities for the center to drive transform to drive transformational change for institutions nationwide. Keep an eye out for some other exciting changes, some different names, but the center will continue to offer the same outstanding program services and support that you've come to expect while also growing to meet the needs of an evolving field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:45]: Okay. We are back. Thank you, Chris, as always, for telling us what's going on in and around NASPA. There's a lot happening post conference, so I hope you've all made it home safely and you're gearing up towards the end of the year now. So we are very thrilled to be bringing you into our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Okay. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:03]: These are unscripted because I is my go to karaoke song. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:16]: And we're here at the conference right now. Kevin Kruger just literally entered to the Bee Gees Stayin' Alive and, like, did a disco dance on stage. It was actually really fun. Yes. Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:27]: I don't know. You know, it was funny. I didn't have any women in my life who worked. Mhmm. And so that was a very interesting question. So I didn't really know what women did when I was 5. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Probably doctor Joe Paul from University of Southern Mississippi. He was our vice president of student affairs and is now the president. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:48]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:21:51]: Oh, probably beginning your journey for our graduate students to learn how to navigate your 1st year in the profession. That's a NASBA publication. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:00]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:03]: This is Us. It is amazing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:05]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:08]: the last year. Probably the student leadership programs knowledge community podcast, and I serve as a SLPKC co chair. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:15]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:18]: I would love to give a shout out to everyone I've met at this conference and everyone who I hope to connect with afterwards. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:25]: It's been a pleasure getting to know you and hearing about the faculty side of your journey. Mostly we talk with practitioners on our show, so it's really great to get the balance on the other side. If folks would like to connect with you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:38]: Sure. My email is Stacey.Malaret@ucf.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:42]: Thank you so much, Stacey, for sharing your voice with us. Dr. Stacey Malaret [00:22:45]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:48]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:29]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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BONUS: The Intersection of DEI and Student Success: Expert Discussions from University Leaders 54:12

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Diversity and Inclusion as Cornerstones In the latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton emphasizes a critical component of student affairs - the unwavering commitment to justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging (JEDIB). Our seasoned panelists, hailing from various colleges and universities, underscore the weight these principles carry in their day-to-day operations, extending to job searches, mentorship, and general support within their respective institutions. Intentional Hiring and Representation Several panelists, such as Aquanetta Pinkert and Dr. Adrienne White, spotlight the importance of creating an environment where everyone feels they belong. They stress intentional hiring practices that not only look at qualifications but also give weight to lived experiences, ensuring teams mirror the diversity of the student body they serve. Challenges and Alignment with Values The current landscape, fraught with challenges in states like Louisiana and Florida, demands an active demonstration of DEI values. Taylor Kane and Shatera Davis explain the necessity of aligning personal values with those of their employers to effectuate genuine change and advocate for marginalized communities. Growth and Empathy in Leadership Evolving as empathetic leaders is key. Panelists discuss the need to incorporate DEI into everyday work, language, and team collaborations, recognizing that personal growth stems from understanding and championing diverse perspectives. Leaders like Dilna Cama and Sabina Kapoor emphasize the dynamic nature of DEI and its role in shaping mentorship and advocacy within higher education. Support Systems and Professional Development Rachael Amaro and Stephanie Cochrane highlight support systems' centrality in fostering an inclusive environment for staff and students. Professional development tailored to understanding and serving diverse student populations is not just an additive; it is the foundation upon which equitable student support is built. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your SA Voices from the field host. Hello, SA Voices. This is our final bonus episode from the annual conference in which you shared with us your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas. If you haven't listened to the other 2, go ahead and check back for the previous 2 weeks to listen to your responses there. For today's focus area, we're looking at justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging. And the question we asked all of you was how do considerations of JED IB influence your approach to job searching, mentorship, and or support in the profession of student affairs? You all had some incredible responses to this one. Please enjoy this part of the conversation, and again, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us. Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:04]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. It influences greatly because I believe everybody matters. Everybody matters, everybody in their respective place should have an opportunity to feel free, have a sense of belonging and be comfortable for whatever time that you you're in that space. So it's huge for me. Taylor Cain [00:01:33]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. I think when it comes to DEI efforts, you know, trying to keep those things always at the front of your mind, recognizing my own privilege that I have and the identities that I hold, the experiences that I've been fortunate enough to have, recognizing they might extend it to everybody, whether because of identities they might hold or because they don't have the financial backing right to attend a conference as great as NASPA. But trying to keep those things in mind and make opportunities for folks to to experience what they can where they are, within the local locality of where they're at and what they're able to to do. I think when it comes to the work that we do in supporting students is recognizing how I show up, how I take the time to spend with folks to better understand their lived experience, let that inform how I approach my work. And always I think recognizing and and trying to approach it with a little bit of humility. I've always got more to learn. I mean, I certainly don't know at all. Taylor Cain [00:02:31]: So, I mean, I think that's that's certainly gonna be important. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, trying to find an employer or a place of employment that matches your values, where you feel like you can be yourself, that you can show up authentically and do good work, and to know that that you are salient to the purpose and mission of that institution. I think for me, I've I feel really lucky to be in a place where where those values align, but I've always encouraged folks that that whatever institution you're at may not always be it. And so trying to find opportunities where you at the end of the day can go home and feel good about what you're doing. Because that buy in, it's tough to sometimes achieve, but it's so important I think to your happiness and being feeling empowered in the role that you have. And so trying to find where you can have value alignment. Adrienne White [00:03:16]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. So as a black woman in higher education, I think mentorship is extremely important. Personally, did not have a mentor that helped me, and guide me through these processes. I kinda had to figure it out on myself, on my own. And so, you know, that's part of the drive for me to run the success coaching program at George Mason University because I wanna be able to make sure that all students have the resources and the support that they need to succeed. I also am very intentional with who I hire on my team. I have one of the most diverse teams at George Mason University because I knew it was important that my team needed to represent the student body. Adrienne White [00:04:02]: We're one of the most diverse institutions in the country. Therefore, my team needed to reflect that as well. And so I prioritize who I hire and making sure that it's not just, you know, on look, it's on experiences, it's on background. It's it's encompassing everything to give everybody the opportunity, to work in student affairs because it's a field of belonging and inclusion, and it really starts at the top and making sure that we're intentional in our hiring decisions. Susan Hua [00:04:33]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. Diversity, equity, inclusion plays a really, really big role for me when I job search or when I think about mentorship relationships or support. I think it's the foundation of everything that we do, and I know that with the current landscape of DEI being under attack in different states, it's ever more important for us to think about ways that we're centering DEI work for employees and for students, and to really think about how we're centering equity at the heart of the work that we're doing to embrace change for students in the future and to really ensure that higher education is open access for folks. Aileen Hentz [00:05:12]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. This is something that has been important to me since essentially day one, even long before I started my journey within higher education. I think for me, I'm looking for different opportunities and ways to better myself professionally by constantly expanding my network of support, places and people that I can, work and collaborate with to help better help students. I think also I've now, at this point, pushed harder. I don't just accept answers to questions that I don't think are fair or just. I try to see what I can do to help push an issue further, to really try to inspire broader and bigger change. To me, it's not just enough these days to just refer a student who's struggling with something to somewhere else, like our counseling center or our multicultural advocacy group. I still do that, but I also think to myself, well, what more can I do? And so I'll try to bring things to our department level and change policy within our department. And even within our diversity council at the college level, I'll bring different issues that I see or hear from my students to them to try and really push for change on a broader scale. Stephen Rice [00:06:27]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. It's important to really that people are seen in your positions, and so really thinking about diversity, equity, inclusion should be a foundation and framework in all the work that we do, especially with those we hire because our students are diverse populations, and so they should see the people that they often meet with may look like them too. And so if everyone looks the same, they're not able to really provide a different unique experience and opportunity for students. Often times, there's a trust that students may have, and when they see someone that looks like them, they're able to go to those individuals and create more tools and other opportunities for them to really grow and reach and be mentored so they'd be successful students and work forward. And then it's also with the staff that we have. When you're the only one, it's tough. And so when you're able to bring a very diverse, unique experience, people feel supported, they feel seen, and they provide the same for the students that they serve. Amy Adam [00:07:19]: Hi. This is Amy Adam and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students with diversity, equity, and inclusion that does very much influence my approach to mentorship and support in my profession. We have a lot of international students that we make sure that they feel supported and connected to campus. And I know they face a lot of adversity coming from another country, especially in the Midwest, so we really strive to make sure that they feel supported. And I'm also doing some work with students with disabilities as I finish up my master's in higher ed. So that's been really, really just enjoyable and satisfying to help that population of students make sure that they feel connected to campus, that they feel that sense of belonging, and show them that they can advocate for themselves and have a voice because their voice matters. So, really, we just kinda try to keep that in our mindset in our daily work just to make sure that those students are supported. Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:27]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. Well, one of my passion projects since I started in the role was a mentorship program, a peer mentorship program. And so thinking about our international students, they really are looking for mentorship, guidance, support, any advice from their peers, and they're more likely to listen to their peers than to us sometimes. So thinking about the DEI piece, they feel that sense of belonging when there's somebody who's been through a similar experience to them. So having them connected with a mentor from their very first semester before they even arrive in Canada is super helpful for them with not just understanding navigating the Canadian landscape, the Toronto city, the cost of living, and then, of course, their academic journey. So having that is a really helpful way to think about DEI because it's from that peer to peer support, which is sometimes missing in higher education. Shatera Davis [00:09:28]: Hi. My name is Shatera Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values. And so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly. Shatera Davis [00:09:50]: And so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct in my questions, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me. And so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal. I mean, it's embedded in my identity as a black person, as a queer person. I can't work in a space that doesn't have that as core values. And if I choose a place that's like that, then I can find really quickly that it doesn't align with my values and so it's probably the one it's the most important thing because it's who I am visibly and so as I move and as I navigate to different higher ed institutions, I'm very direct. My question is, like, what have they done for historically marginalized students? What do they do for staff? What did they do during the pandemic? How were they kind to their staff in this new remote era and hybrid era? Like, how are they giving their staff benefits? And, like, those kinds of things, I'm asking those intentional questions because I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment with the values. It doesn't mean the higher education institution is bad, it just means it's not right for me, and so I just make sure that it's always in alignment for me because it's personal. Andy Wiegert [00:11:12]: I am Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in St. Louis. Yes, this has to actually, in my opinion, start from the moment we are interviewing candidates for positions and bringing people to our campus is that everything should be looked at through the lens of equity and the lens of inclusion. And so from the start, my stance, our stance is to be asking those questions upfront. So how do you define anti racism? How do you define things like this? Will you be a fit to be an actual mentor who recognizes this need for diversity? So we're doing that at the very, very early stages. That then translates to training, development, things like that, but if we're not doing it out of the gates, then we're gonna run into problems down the road. Scott Peska [00:12:01]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think in all three of these areas, job searching, mentorship, and support for the profession of student affairs, there's probably nothing more important than equity and injustice and looking at place that you're looking at to the the values of the institution reflect what your values are and you know and so as a student affairs professionals something that has come to my heart is just making sure that we can care for all of our students and that we can try to help them succeed no matter what their background and making sure that we can put the necessary supports there. And so if the institution doesn't have those same values, we gotta be able to look at that. And so I've always looked at it when job searching. I think when mentoring, talking to individuals, making sure that I'm reaching out to be able to provide those kind of supports all across the way. Dilna Cama [00:12:48]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. I think that is part of our everyday life. It has to be something that we have ingrained not in just the work that we do, but the language we use, how we work with our teams, making sure that they not only understand where their perspective is coming from, but how that impacts other individuals on a team, in a community, whatever that might look like. Sabina Kapoor [00:13:21]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate relationship between the organization and the employee. I'm gonna reference Pamela Hayes' model. If you've ever the acronym is ADDRESSING, and so it's looking at different different categories from age to disability to religion to sexual orientation, sexual gender identification, etcetera. And so all these different categories, a person could potentially be, what Pamela Hayes says is oppressed in some categories and privileged in others. So, for example, as a minority woman who's heterosexual, I'm privileged in the sexual orientation, but I'm repressed in the gender category and also in the ethnic and cultural category. Sabina Kapoor [00:14:32]: So it's interesting because idea of minoritized is not all one side, you are minoritized or you're not. It's kind of looking at different facets of that. So I say that because I use that as a premise with anything. So when I'm looking for a job, when I'm mentoring others, I try to remember inclusivity and look at things from the other's perspective. And I'll be honest, my oppressed areas have been like traditional ones. So with emerging ones, and I'm in a privileged position, it's really interesting. It's I had to see things from a privileged lens, and that was an interesting learning experience because I'd never been in that situation. So I say that because it's all shapes and influences all of this, how I mentor, how I support others and advocate. My last position, I was a dean for student success at a dual designated HBU and HSI. And I think advocacy was probably the top thing that I was doing while I was there. So so all that to say, DEI, it's not just my premise, it's who I am. So it really influences everything that what I do in my career. Carlie Weaver [00:15:44]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I did one of my assistantships with University of South Alabama during my grad school career, and so I did that with the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Office, and it's something that I like to think about a lot when I'm making decisions, especially with such a student facing role. I like to think of diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging before I make pretty much any choice because I know that it is so influential in students' lives. So, even when I'm thinking about, like, what kind of programming to bring to campus, I'm thinking about the different populations that we have and what is of interest to those populations. Roxanne Wright Watson [00:16:33]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think it is not a matter of influencing because the bills of that will be paid. So so we need to make sure that it's for me, 1st and foremost, it is I think I just need to go to work, do what I gotta do, and go home. But having equity, diversity, and all of that within the institution is an added thing that now gives me help me to broaden my scope, help me to blossom, to bloom where I'm at. So it is an institution that support these values and goals, then I am more open. I give more of my self than it would be if I am just at an institution that is just not supportive of these values. Carla Ortega Santori [00:17:34]: My name is Carla Ortega Santore. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Doerr Institute For New Leaders at Rice University. And my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I'm actually from Puerto Rico, so whenever I'm looking for a job or when I'm looking for a mentor, I'm looking to see other familiar faces in the room, like, I'm seeing where I'm represented, seeing the kinds of students we work with. So that that's one thing I I usually look for. I also look for concrete ways, examples. I guess another way that influences my day to day professional life is when I also see I'm a IO psychologist by education, so I also look for research that's represented in that. So any evidence of impact, measurable outcomes that we see that are related to people of color and other underrepresented minorities is really important when I and I'm looking for any evidence based practices to apply, to implement with students, or for any support in the profession. Rachael Amaro [00:18:55]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that, I mean, for sure with the mentorship piece, it's I have had a hard time finding people that I could rely on when I first started, but I think that's made me a little more active in trying to be a mentor to others. And I really appreciate the the trust that I can build with the team that I work with. You know, I have I have one immediate colleague in my department, but then all of us in in our college are on the same floor of the building we're in, and so it's been really great to get to know everybody and to make the time and the space for each other, and then because I've been there, for sure I've been on campus a lot longer than a lot of them, and so trying to let them know, you know, sort of what's what's going on, how to navigate things, especially because a lot of them, it's their first time working at a university, and I think it's really so important because most of us happen to be Latinx that a lot of the new hires have been, and so it's been really important to me to let them know things even about making sure sure they're putting money in their retirement, making sure they're doing these things that we just didn't necessarily always get taught. And even things as simple as, hey, when you're taking a vacation day, like, really take a vacation day. Use your time because you need to. Because we're so used to not being told how to navigate that from people in a supervisory positions who aren't used to the diversity that's coming up into the field. And so I think that's a really important part. Again, we talk about the hidden curriculum a lot for the students, but there's a hidden side for staff as well. And so when we come from families and parents who worked in factories and had a very different way of living and working, we also have to learn how to navigate these systems that we're now working in. And I think it's important to be able to share that with them so that they don't feel isolated or alienated and they feel like we're in this together. Christine Wilson [00:21:00]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. I think that justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion are at the forefront of everything that I do. It's a principle of our organization. It's part of the mission of our school of education where I'm program director and I teach. Our campus is incredibly diverse and if we don't consider that, then we are not serving our students. So if that's not something people are on board with, then they should not come to UCLA. Olivia Ruggieri [00:21:42]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. Well, my area, while we are definitely not HR, we do support searches on our campus. So one of my staff members, he will assist hiring managers in doing an inch initial evaluation of candidates and then help them design their searches. But recognizing that while we've made improvements in this area, we're not doing it as well as we could be. This summer, we're gonna be establishing a group that will ultimately create a set of DEI hiring standards, and we wanna make sure that there's strong representation from all types of folks on our campus, faculty, staff, and hopefully students, to ensure that we're hiring in the most equitable way. And I have to say that, like, since this has become a focus of mine, I look at job descriptions differently and just what I've learned about how to hire equitably and certain phrases raise flags for me because I realized that they may not represent welcomeness to all. So it's just become part of my practice and how I evaluate different opportunities. Christle Foster [00:23:04]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. When it comes to my staff, because of the work that we do, so student focused, definitely diversity, equity, and inclusion is a part of that, especially with the populations we serve in Trio. That's definitely what we do as part of our mission. So when it comes to choosing staff and helping staff go through professional development, that's some of the things that we always look at. Whether it's in terms of ethnicity, accessibility, or ability, or unabilities in regards to education. We recently did, training with the University of Delaware who has a special program that's focused on students who are new or divergent, and it was exemplary. What they are doing there with a grant is just amazing. So we were able to get some information from them on how to help our students who are neurodivergent, or some of them are on spectrum, so to speak. Nathalie Waite Brown [00:24:03]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think I approach those areas first and foremost from a personal perspective, notwithstanding all of the visible identities that I carry, I'm a 1st generation student, parents who migrated to the US in the early seventies. So I work with a large international student population, and I take those identities very much in leading how I work with them and being able to understand the potential need that's in front of them. And that runs the gamut. It's not limited to who I am, but also having a level of empathy and support in guiding the work and the resources that students need. Dae'lyn Do [00:24:50]: My name is Dae'Lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the women in science and engineering residence program at the University of Michigan. And I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. I think specifically when it comes to mentorship, something I always take into consideration that I do try to do myself, but I also encourage my students to do is to seek out a variety of different mentors who have different lived experiences. And so not just, I think we oftentimes talk about finding mentors who look like us or who share similar identities with us, which is really important, but I also think it's important to seek out folks who maybe don't because we learn different perspectives and different ways of looking at things that we might not if we just rely on the people who have the same lived experiences as us. And so, I think when it comes to thinking through our own efforts of justice and equity, our mentors are the people that we learn from and so trying to diversify our own support network is the best way to kind of get those different experiences and support. Natalie DeRosa [00:25:55]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. I would say that those two terms, justice and equity, are central when I am doing job searching. Not only how the organization embraces those concepts, but also the person who is my direct support, that they are equity minded and justed justice minded themselves makes or breaks whether or not I feel like that organization is the right organization for me. Dan Volchek [00:26:25]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. I look at DEI as a very important piece of dealing with my job search, mentorship, and support. I try to look at what we're doing with both our faculty, our staff, and our students in the DEI world and making sure we're addressing all of those issues and challenges that others may be facing that I may not have faced to make sure that I'm dealing with DEI in a positive manner. Vaughn Calhoun [00:27:00]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think looking for places and people with high social emotional intelligence, knowing that any place that I would think about or people I wanna engage with, that there's a high sense of empathy to help build those lasting relationships. Because I think without the empathy, it's it's hard to really move to higher levels of conversation. So if you could find that in organization and people, you found something really good. Darlene Robinson [00:27:37]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. I think it influences the career in the sense that I want to be on a level playing field. I wanna be considered as a person that is capable of certain things rather than just basing it off of filling a quota. I think it is fair enough to accept people for who they are and get to know them for them them as a person first before not even before, but without passing judgment based on certain discriminatory practices. Because in doing that, you get to know the person first and understand that we're all connected in some way. Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:28:20]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. What attracted me to student affairs to begin with is my curiosity about humans and human beings. And what has sustained me 24 years in this profession at this point in my life has been the curiosity that continues about the people I get to interact with, the students that continue to change and evolve and allow me to grow, and in many ways, stay young because we have to keep up, not keep up in a bad way, but just it is never a dull moment learning from our students, learning from our colleagues. And so when I think about DEI work, I think about my curiosity about life and how we evolve as people. I think about my own journey, how different I am today than when I first moved into my residence hall. I think about the beautiful places I've been able to visit and serve and work and the stories of those people, those places, those moments in time. Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:29:17]: And so for me, DEI work is not about difference. It is about the stories of people, the stories of places that we get to visit and explore and learn. And so for me, I really think about that when I am mentoring, coaching, supervising, engaging with students. I think about it in my own search. As I consider opportunities, I think about what do I bring into spaces, what can I gain from spaces, And I use those thoughts to formulate questions for either the individuals that are asking me to consider a position and or while I am engaging in the search process? And so those types of aspects of diversity, equity, and inclusion, I think, keep that work very centered, very front, and create opportunities for us to continue again learning and growing in our profession. David Chao [00:30:07]: Hello. My name is David Chao. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. As a first generation Asian American, you know, it's really important for me. I think coming to higher education from the corporate world, I think I've seen and been exposed to a very healthy environment where we're trying to be more open to all ideas and diversity is really, really important. It's strange because being an Asian American, as a minority, you think I'd be more sensitive to that, but I guess I didn't really always see that. And so I feel like my eyes are much more open to it, and my ability to help others and mentor and foster a collaborative and diverse environment, which is a challenge in our society today. Melinda Stoops [00:30:47]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. I think even though I've been in student affairs for a long time, I feel like this is one area that I consider a growth area. I am a middle aged white woman, and my background and my experiences certainly are related to my identity in in many ways. And I feel like the longer I'm in higher ed, the more I'm interacting with increasingly a more diverse student body, the more I have to learn. And so I just feel like as I do my work, whether it's being supervised or supervising, whether it's mentoring or being mentored, I feel like increasingly I really focus on being open to not making assumptions either about the other person, but also not making assumptions that even if I'm in a mentoring role that I have all the answers. That really, I have a lot to learn as well and taking time to really understand the person I'm working with and where they're coming from and their perspectives and sort of maximizing the impact we can both have on each other. Derek Grubb [00:31:54]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. In terms of justice and equity, one of the biggest things I've been trying to do lately is really recognize to avoid agendas. And not so much agendas and meetings, but agendas in terms of having a predetermined outcome and really accepting people where they are and being able to really just sort of embrace those opportunities for challenging conversations and looking for new perspectives. So up on my wall right now is the, no agendas policy. Matt Imboden [00:32:28]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. All those things I want. The funny thing about diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice work is it's one in the same with overall student success, sense of belonging, it's a 100% connected to student well-being. And so, sometimes I think we create these bifurcations and divisions and we create this little bucket and label it, you know, diversity programming. But especially as I think there's a lot of renewed pressures on those roles and leaders with the people that are exponents of those values that are institutions. It's even more important to just talk about the ways in which, no, our ability to recruit and retain students is one in the same with being good at that work. And for some reason, I think it takes on a life of its own or becomes a bit of a specter when people try to apply those labels in only certain places. But if we wanna win as institutions in the 21st century in the marketplaces we work in, you gotta figure out how all the things you just mentioned apply to your day in day out work. Evette Castillo Clark [00:33:36]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. So this is super important and critical because with job searching, with mentoring, and our profession, it is really important for us to have diverse professionals, diverse thinking, embracing different perspectives because it makes us rich, and it makes the whole organization stronger. So in our recruitment procedures, one of my things is that I want to make sure that whoever is, for example, sharing a search, that you've worked every angle to make sure that you have racial diversity, gender diversity, regional diversity, just a broad spectrum of backgrounds to get to the semifinalist pool and then also to try to get to the finalist pool. You make every effort to do that, and I employ that same model with student leadership. So in elections or looking at who do we want on our student employment to employ as student workers, orientation leaders, RAs. You want that to be a cross section because if you're doing community building work, you have to have leadership that looks like the people that you serve. Madeline Frisk [00:34:48]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say I especially think of diversity, equity, and inclusion in terms of how I support students and show up. At PSU, we have a lot of non traditional students. We're also becoming an emerging HSI and Anapisa institution. So I think about how I'm showing up and my identities, how I can better serve students, and I try to stay well informed, read, do a lot of research and background work so that I'm showing up for them and also try to provide them all the training that I can. It also helps to have other coworkers and people you can rely on to kind of fill in any gaps too. So I think that's really helped as well having people and allies in your life that you can rely on as well as, good coworkers and team as well as kind of with the support in the profession of student affairs. I recently started a book club at our institution within our LGBT affinity employee resource group and that's really helped me to kind of also build even more support for myself in this work and also people who I know I can rely on that can be additional supports for my students. So that's been really great. Gene Zdziarski [00:36:15]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think it's been one of the things that I find in my career trying to find a place where that sense of diversity and inclusion really is embraced and a part of things. I work at a Catholic university, and a lot of people have different opinions about the Catholic faith and everything else, but what I have to say is when I interviewed for the job there, one of the things I wanted to make sure was that, again, there was a sense of diversity, appreciation, and openness. We had an LGBTQA center. We had, LGBTQ studies. We have embraced other faiths and people, and that was extremely important to me. And I think something that perhaps people don't always look at when they look at a faith based institution, but I think you'll find that, again, that's an important piece of higher education, an important piece of our work in my career in student affairs. Lyza Liriano [00:37:10]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. It influences it a it a lot. I'm a queer woman of color, and so I want to make sure that the spaces that I walk into are going to be spaces where I feel safe and where there are students that look like me so that they know that they can come to me. My identity is very intersectional, and I think that that's one of my favorite parts of my identity, and there's been spaces that I've stepped into where I've had to choose, okay, am I going to focus on being a black woman today? Am I going to focus on being a queer woman today? And so creating those spaces of you can be all of that at once. And when I'm job searching, that is something that I'm very intentional about asking is what work do you do apart from sending students to the Black Student Center or the LGBTQ Student Center? What is your department actually doing to help these students? And so I also want it to be just someone that students can come to because I've been in spaces where I'm sometimes the only woman of color, and so I wanna make sure my students know, like, I'm creating space for myself so that in, you know, years to come when my students are out in the field, hopefully in student affairs, they also are going to have multiple seats at the table not just the one. Jackie Cetera [00:38:28]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I find it's all in how people show up in their day to day and what they're doing to not only support students on our campus, but also employees, both faculty and staff. When we talk about the sense of belonging, I believe that it's really important for us as leaders, as our institutions to make sure that our faculty and staff have a sense of belonging so they can show up and do good work and provide opportunities and spaces for our students to also find that sense of belonging. Lisa Landreman [00:39:15]: My name is Lisa Landerman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. Similarly, I stay abreast of current issues. I am doing my own work through institutes, 1 on 1 consulting and every opportunity I can to talk with other colleagues around best practices, most effective strategies. I I also really try to center relationships so that there's this there's the book learning and research of our trends, but then there's also every individual's gonna have their own experience and their multiple identities that are gonna shape their experience at our particular institution. So, how I handle that and manage kind of issues of justice and equity, whether it's around language, practices, programs, initiatives in Oregon is different than when I was in Rhode Island, is different when I was at the University of Michigan. And so I think context matters, listening to our staff, again, creating space, trying to support affinity relationships for where that matters to people, sure that we are constantly looking at our policies, practices through an equity lens. And so every time we're writing a new policy, we look at that lens. Lisa Landreman [00:40:27]: At least once a year, we take a moment to reflect on new programs, policies, or practices to ask questions. Who's at this event? Who does this impact? Who who's included? Whose voice was at the table when we created it? So all those kinds of checklists that come with looking at the subtle ways that the work that we do might impact people that of groups we're not members for some ways. Celebrating and recognizing heritage month's accomplishments of diverse folks in in our both in our community. I think in hiring, we do a lot to look at what biases do we bring, what biases we have that might not be about race, but that biases we have about the field or the job that might have an impact on people from different racial groups or identity groups. Right? And so it isn't always so overt, so I think doing our work around. Before every search, we do we we really come to the table and say, so what are our biases about? And we look at a resume. And, you know, we really scrutinize our job descriptions to make sure do are all those qualifications really necessary? Is that many years of experience really necessary? Are we really waiting what can really be learned on the job, and what really do people have to have experience coming? So those are those are all ways that we subtly sort of can bias our searches. Those are just some I could go on and on, but I I think the important point about this is that especially in this time, regardless of what's happening with legislators, we as individuals can shape our own practice to demonstrate where these values matter regardless of what offices aren't allowed to be in my campus. That's still a battle we need to fight. And just because that battle's being fought, doesn't mean it stops us from doing centering that as an important value. Jackie Yun [00:42:08]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think it impacts everything. So I really am somebody who believes that DEI is not just held with folks that have that in their title, but it's really the responsibility of everyone at an institution to be considering that. And I think about this from my own experiences, whether or not I feel like I'm included in a community, but also in my management, my hiring, the way that I scaffold spaces for students, and so I think it's really important work. Leanna Fenneberg [00:42:44]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenenberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. Oh my gosh. Isn't that a big question? Right? I mean, I feel like for most of us, for many of us in student affairs, DEI work is at the core of our values and what we do and why we do it. So it's to professional searches, to professional development, to building a community of support for our students and for our staff. And so it is central to everything we do. Jake Murphy [00:43:16]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So for me, it's probably a really big thing, but it's really tough in the state that I'm at because there's a whole mess concerning DEI work and justice and equity and inclusion work. So for me personally, it's a big factor in where I choose to go to work. I wanna make sure that the environment that I'm at is focused on making sure that the whole student is taken care of, but being place bound sometimes it makes it a little bit difficult. But also creating those environments is also really key and making sure that students feel supported, that they have a sense of community, and are able to be able to go through their out their student journey is extremely important. And mentorship for us, especially in, like, peer mentorship is very important to be able to create those spaces. Larry Pakowski [00:44:13]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think we've gotta to look at the students we serve and at the end of the day that's one of the things that we want to be reflective of who we serve but we also want to embrace the the variety of different diverse cultures and backgrounds and things like that. Not only our students have, but our employees should have as well. Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:44:37]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. I think in my approach to all of these things, having the ability to touch base with a lot of people from different I don't have a master's in higher ed and things like that. Being able to see the diversity in our different backgrounds both educationally, but also racially, ethnically, etcetera, has been super important to me. And I think we bring all these different things to the table, and it's really been great to learn from everyone and their backgrounds of whatever they've done in their past lives, because I know all of us have many past lives sometimes. They're all bringing something, like, super important that I think is really invigorating student affairs because I work with a lot of people who's had past lives and they're really changing things in a lot of cool ways. Kristen Merchant [00:45:48]: Hi everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. With job searching, I think about whenever I'm doing my hiring actually for orientation. We always put an effort into putting a cohesive team together of a variety of different backgrounds and interests and majors and all the different ways that diversity can come into play. So that way, all of our new incoming students can see a face that they recognize, which is really, really important in the DEI world and is something that we always consider in any type of our hiring practices and any type of programming that I do is making sure that there is someone that they feel like they can go to. Joe Lizza [00:46:35]: My name is doctor Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and campus activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. It really is the idea that you want an institution that is respectful for others, supportive of others because you never know when you might be on that opposite side of the situation. So you might be in an institution or in a job role that you feel very comfortable, supported and you feel like you belong and it's very easy to kinda based on a different supervisor or a different university leadership, that could shift. I always look for places that really are respectful, very forward thinking, and they don't only just preach what their beliefs are and their values, but they also put them into action. And that's kinda reassuring to me as a professional in higher education for both for myself and my colleagues. I'm realizing that it's a good place to work, a place that will be supportive of life changes and different situations. Joshua Allred [00:47:32]: My name's Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. That's challenging. It's certainly something that is on my mind constantly. I think living in Louisiana and in the South where there's lots of legislation recently, sort of very much anti DEI has been a challenge. So I'm not in a place where I can kind of up and move, unfortunately. I would in some ways, I kinda wish I could. So being on a campus and in a state where there's lots of uncertainty around, like, what does DEI look like in our state has been a challenge. Joshua Allred [00:48:01]: And so we are very much in a place of kind of waiting to see what's gonna happen next. And again, I think finding folks where folks and groups of people where you can hold onto and feel safe and find little beacons of hope is helpful. It's not always there, but I'm a supervisor for an LGBTQIA plus organization in the College of Agriculture and that's been really helpful for me and something that I really knew and renewed importance in. And so that's kind of what I look towards is like the people and and the small things here and there. But certainly a consideration is just tough. It's tough when you can't move. Joshua Allred [00:48:38]: Well, one of the things that I really enjoy about my job is being able to support and work with students, and those are all students, ethnicities, genders. Just being able to support those students in coming to NASPA and being able to learn from experts on how to best support students no matter who they are, no matter where they're from. So at Texas A&M, they give me the opportunity to go to professional development. They give me the opportunity to collaborate with my peers around the country. And during those times, that's what I wanna do. I'm always making sure that I'm talking to the experts in the field to make sure that I'm doing the best to support our students. Judy Traveis [00:49:28]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. Again, from Florida, we've had DEI impacted, although we all believe in the diversity and what it brings to our campus and the inclusion and and equity piece. I believe institutions that do it well and thread it through all factors of the university, you can really see it. It's tangible and that in as I job search or look for other careers, if I should move institutions, that is something that's very important and I hold as a value in my heart to make sure that that it's not just on a website, that you can actually physically see how it's threaded through by the way the community and culture is on that campus. Katie Caponera [00:50:23]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. A commitment to all of those tenants, particularly justice, is really important to me personally and professionally. I'm fortunate to work at an institution where that is a key aspiration and goal of our community, and it's something that I would continue to foreground in looking at other types of institutions or future colleagues or partners. It's making sure all of our students feel that it's a space where they can thrive and be their full selves is of paramount importance and continuing to remain dedicated to those efforts, especially admit so much turmoil, I think, is underlines their importance more so. Kathy Dilks [00:51:11]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn to create a team that is not only diverse, but diverse of thoughts. I think it's our responsibility to make certain that we are leaning into DEIB, and I try my hardest to make certain that I am never an impediment in that future. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:51:47]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the university Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kind of place the role. It's interesting the word considerations. How do considerations of, show up for me, good and bad, before I can lean into anything else. And I think that's a step we don't often do, particularly and we just jump into, oh, oh, well, of course, you know, Jedi work is important, and of course we're gonna do that. But because we don't stop and pause pause and think and unlearn a lot of what we know, we end up rushing to action so quickly, we cause more harm. And so I think that first step for me, because the question is influence your, is to pause, think, and remember that I have to be okay with who I am, good and bad, take the steps to do my own work, and then bring others into the fold, like, okay. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:52:54]: What are the resources we need in meaningful ways so that the work can move through always a lens of equity. So being an equity minded organization, human, professional, friend, partner, all the different components of your life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:53:51]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Dr. Josie Ahlquist: Pioneering Positive Social Media Guidance in Student Affairs 44:59

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Empowering Student Voices: The Digital Transformation The use of social media in higher education has evolved from a platform for personal expression to a crucial tool for professional development and student engagement. Dr. Josie Ahlquist shared her expertise on digital leadership, emphasizing how social media gives students and educators alike the power to craft their own narratives. Gone are the days when online behavior was solely interpreted through a lens of fear; instead, we must encourage responsible and purposeful digital engagement. Revolutionizing Campus Culture: From Traditional to Trailblazing The episode highlighted the need to transcend traditional roles and embrace the flexible, interconnected nature of campus culture. The drive to humanize the workplace converges with the desire to inspire meaningful mentorship and collaboration, both within student affairs and across various campus departments. A Visionary Approach to Student Engagement Dr. Alquist's curriculum, based on the social change model, teaches students to harness social media's potential for advocacy, community building, and change. Meanwhile, Dr. Jill Creighton's research brings to light the positive impact of social media on academic success, further advocating for its inclusion in student support strategies. Leading by Example: The Entrepreneurial Leap in Higher Education Chronicling her journey from campus professional to CEO, Dr. Alquist offers a candid look at the challenges and mental health tolls of entrepreneurial endeavors. Her experience underscores the importance of self-reflection, support systems, and the willingness to take risks - foundational elements that redefine professional growth in student affairs. An Invitation to Shape the Future Dr. Ahlquist and Dr. Creighton invite you to reflect on their own relationship with social media and its integration into higher education, encouraging continuous adaptation to the digital habits of a new generation of students. This conversation not only serves as a call to action for today's educators but a bridge to the untapped potential of tomorrow's student affairs landscape. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode, and I'm going to be bringing back something that we haven't done in a little while, which is a crossover episode with another podcast. You'll hear us talk about this in the heart of the show, but we are doing a crossover today with doctor Josie Alquist's podcast called Josie and the podcast. So the part one of this conversation drops on her show feed, and this is part 2 of that conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: But first, let me introduce you to Josie. Dr. Josie Alquist guides educational leaders, organizations, and students to practice purpose full digital leadership through speaking, coaching, and consulting. Her practical evidence based frameworks empower clients to build and implement a digital engagement strategy that fits their life, audience, and purpose. Josie's work is grounded in the grant funded and award winning research that has allowed her to train 1,000 around the globe as a speaker, providing consulting services to institutions and companies, and coach professionals in branding, voice, and positioning. Josie's work has appeared in the Handbook Student Affairs Dialogues on Equity, Civility, and Safety. She also served as a co editor and author of The New Directions in Student Services volume, Engaging the Digital Generation and the New Directions in Student Leadership Volume, Going Digital in Student Leadership. In 2023, Dr. Alquist was selected as a NASPA pillar of the profession, one of the highest honors in our field in student affairs. She's a 3 time LinkedIn top voice in education and has been recognized by EdTech Magazine as one of the top 50 must read higher education technology blogs for 5 years. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: Her podcast, Josie and the Podcast, has been featured by the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Her new book, Digital Leadership in Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World, was listed as number 1 on Amazon's new release list for college and university student life. She received her EDD in education from Cal Lutheran and an MED in counseling from Northern Arizona with a BA in psychology and human development and family studies from South Dakota State University. Prior to her independent path, Josie spent nearly 15 years on college campuses in areas of student leadership, student activities, residence life, and student affairs communications and marketing. She previously served as a research associate and instructor at Florida State University Leadership Learning Research Center, where her curriculum builds digital literacy and leadership skills for undergraduates to doctoral students. For more information about Josie's research, speaking, coaching, and consulting, you can find her at www.josiealquist.com. That's josiea hlquist.com. You can also connect with Josie on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, and Facebook. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Josie, I'm so excited to continue our conversation. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:10]: I get, like, a half day with you today. It is so delightful. I need this every month. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: And this is a double episode because Josie just interviewed me on her show, which dropped yesterday. Do you wanna plug that real quick? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:24]: So my podcast is Josie and the podcast, and I get to interview amazing guests like Jill and talk about the intersection of marketing, communication, social media, and how to be a human on and offline. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: How to be a human. That is a lesson that we are all continually relearning, I think. It's hard. It's hard. But it's a joy to have you on the show today because you have such an incredible breadth of experience in higher education both as an on campus professional and as a campus partner. As I mentioned in your bio, you recently received the Pillar of the Profession award, which is tremendous. You've authored a book. You've built an entire business that works directly with higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: But it didn't all start there. And so looking forward to hearing more about all of your transitions in career and the choices that you've made along the way to stay connected and anchored into the student affairs profession while serving a gap, that definitely exists in our profession. Let's start at the beginning. How did you find your way onto campus? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:04:27]: Well, the minute I step foot on a campus, whether if it was a tour or where I ended up going to college at South Dakota State, I was hooked. The talents were in and I was one of those freshmen probably on a coffee table yelling, I love college. And, I don't go on coffee tables anymore because that could really hurt my knees. But I just absolutely loved it. The energy, the exploration, the exploration, the involvement, and had really great mentors that were like, well, Chelsea, it's not all the fun stuff of being an orientation leader. There's there's actually a lot of, you know, operations, but I found my way through that too. And also found my way as social media arrived on our campuses that I was really comfortable playing in the sandbox along with a lot of a lot of change. So from my roots in student affairs over 12 years at different campuses, I'm based in Los Angeles. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:23]: My last institution was Loyola Marymount and I also have always education is such a core identity of who I am and, values. Early on, my mom or my grandma and grandpa saying you gotta get your education, kid. And I just always knew I wanted to get my doctorate. And so the doctorate was kind of a spark that started a fire. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:48]: I didn't ever realize. I can pause there. I can keep going. I don't know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: Well, your dissertation I think we share this in our stories that our dissertations really led to career changes, which is fascinating. Your dissertation was on social media behavior with undergraduate students. What did you learn from that? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:06:06]: I still feel like I am a interpreter of culture and generations and the internet And around 2013 is when I started my program, and then it was a very it was packed a diminished view of students' use of technology and especially for student leaders, I would hear a lot of talk about assuming students were doing the worst things possible online and I wasn't seeing that with my students. It went against, I feel like, who we are as practitioners that we're putting all this work into empowering them and giving them the tools and we know developmentally and you worked in conduct, you get it, you see that process, but we were making a lot of assumptions out of fear and so I wanted to know what were they really doing online, if it was as bad as we thought or not, because this also was the time where it was super black and white. Do not even look at your student stuff, don't let them connect with you. Some places, you still couldn't even have accounts as departments. It was it was very much scare tactics. And, honestly, that was one of the discoveries in my focus groups. Students would talk about their whole lives that they were educated about social media with fear. To catch a predator came up. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Oh, yeah. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:07:42]: Like, literally. And what was also so fascinating was they learned lessons based upon how the people in their lives older than them were making mistakes and or their peers, so they were just having to learn this stuff on the flight. Like, imagine dropping Josie, who grew up in Wyoming, on the 405 in LA without ever of driving in in a city before. You woulda had to tow my car out of there. I'm sorry. I just didn't have those skills, and sometimes that's what we're doing and or telling me before I get to LA how it you're gonna adapt you're not gonna make it unless you do x y z, and that kinda broke my heart a little bit. Like, again, we give so much and it's not even about, like, positive psychology but just tell them what to do then. What do you want them to do online? Like, they were so desperate that then they would say, well, this is how my RD, I've noticed, uses Facebook. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:08:36]: So maybe that's how an adult does Facebook even though there is no one way. We know that. Right? We get to make a million choices and so what came from that was a set of curriculum. I wanted to be able to share. I'm a I'm a sharer and this could be a framework you could teach your students And that also is what led then to me speaking to a lot of students in a new way because a lot of times they'd come to, like, my keynote or it to, like, get on LinkedIn or start a blog, share my story. No one told me I could share, but in a purposeful way. So I use the social change model as the framework in both the curriculum, but also what I was looking for. If the student leaders that we were putting so much investment in, if they were actually using those skills on social. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:09:37]: And I think the individual skills was definitely shown. Group skills are more harder. It was the time of the ice bucket challenge, so there was that kind of expression. Yeah. But overall, with a couple exceptions, they were they were using these tools in productive ways and I still think that holds true today that we need to give youth more credit than I think we're just assuming other tool. And so I just really got on a soapbox, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: If it's a topic you're passionate about, this is good. But I'll give a shout out to doctor Jason Foster, Positive Use of Social Media and Their Academic Success. And that was kind of similar to what you were seeing, a time where I was using social media to connect and build relationships with people. This is before it was a dumpster fire all the time, I think. And we were hearing the narrative that social media was so bad. And so we thought we wanted to contribute to the literature in a way that reflected, well, there's obviously some benefits here. Let's talk about them. And we found that students were using social media to be academically successful in group projects, which was a really interesting twist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: And, you know, we ended up getting cited in the handbook of qualitative research, I think, or social media research, something like that. And I was like, wow. I didn't think this was that profound, but it's nice to Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:10:58]: This is blowing my mind because I'm fairly positive I cited that paper. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:03]: And now That's really funny. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:04]: Source because I'm like, wait. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:08]: That's amazing. And but I think the one lesson looking back because it was so extreme that there was this negativity. I stayed in that positive, purposeful place because we know now 10 years later, there are so many ethical issues and concerns and things that need to change and are problematic that things are different. 10 years cycle. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:31]: So let's talk about those transitions then because Yeah. In in our theme of transitions, we've seen all sorts of things from our guests in different personal transitions. But one of the transitions I appreciate from your perspective is this longitudinal arc of how students are using social media, what the concerns are from different generations of students with social media use, and the trends that you're seeing for how student affairs professionals can actually connect with students because I know they don't want us on TikTok. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:12:02]: They do if you meet the culture and the content for that platform. If you show up like you would in an email or on LinkedIn, give them the ick. Like, let that you know, it'd be cringe and I think this is where the concept of time right now kind of blows my mind. I feel like I'm still in my thirties, that I am full blown ahead in my forties. Right? And the longer we're in these positions and we see lots of students come and go, but we can sometimes forget how much has changed in 10 years. So the students in my study, and a lot of them I'm still connected with and some of them are higher ed pros now, they are now full into millennials and we still are thinking about those students and sometimes communicating like those are still our students and meeting them on platforms that we were for example, Facebook groups were big back then. We still have people trying to keep Facebook groups alive for 1st year students, like class of whatever. I'm like, honey, they're on Discord. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:13:03]: They've made a subreddit of you already. The pacing is so much different of these other platforms and so that needs, our side needs to change. They've also grown up even further back than the students in my studies. So as early as when they were born, potentially, the second they came out, they had a paper trail, Good or bad? And we are also seeing more students come or preteens, teens, young adults having more frustrations that then they didn't get say in what their digital identity was early on and or we are also seeing them double down and become influencers on different platforms whether that's a micro influencer just talking about makeup or running or a million other things And so, we might be inviting new students to our campuses. They have influence that we didn't in college in addition to access, so lots of communications. I do think that education and curriculum has improved but honestly the majority of it is their own self. Education and peer education tends to be always some of the strongest factors. I think the other thing that's also who grew up with social media early in their careers and so now they are their own kind of digital natives in executive roles. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:14:35]: I had previous vice presidents that wouldn't touch any tools, let alone know what they are or be willing to access them. So I think 2 things are happening at once, both what our students are doing and what it's impacting our profession and future leaders use or even misuse. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:52]: We are all over the place as a profession in terms of our level of comfort with having a digital identity or digital footprint, as well as our level of capacity or skill base for how that's going for folks. You know, some of us are all in on all platforms. Some of us are partway in on some platforms and all in on others. And some of us are like, you just said Discord. What is that? So there's a level of all of these things. Right? Like, I'm on Discord. I'm on Slack. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]: I'm in the YouTube space. TikTok was banned in the country I was last in, so couldn't be on there. But Douyin was allowed, which is, like, the counterpart in the country. But there's also social media that is huge in other parts of the world that a lot of Americans have never heard of or use. Like, WeChat is, like, a tool of life Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:39]: Oh, yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:40]: In a lot of Asia. Yes. And and you can't function without a WeChat account. It's where all the information is. So given all of this major big landscape, how would you recommend that student affairs professionals who want to gain digital skills and don't necessarily feel like they know how to do that go about the process. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:59]: I think just like how our students are sorting it out and how we seek out mentors and sponsors is to find those yourself. And the nice thing is you can just kind of lurk and scroll on your own, but I do highly encourage people to actually reach out, right? Like if someone aspires to be like you, I aspire to be like you, Joe. But I have a podcast or again, like, working internationally, like, reach out. Use the access not just for the likes and comment. That is my number one advice when students are doing their doctorate or masters. You have a secret sauce that somehow gets taken away after you graduate is that you just say you're a student, people will take your calls more often for guidance and mentorship and so I called up a lot of the people I was citing or just people that were talking a lot about social media and tech to ask some questions and now they're some of my closest colleagues and even friends. And so I guess my advice is you have to take it offline. You really do have to take the relationship piece. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:01]: The tools can be a spark, but they are not the source to keep it sustainable. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: You wrote a book recently that was listed as number 1 for new college releases, which is very exciting, on Amazon, Digital Leadership and Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World. Now I don't want you to have to rehash your whole book, but I'm wondering if you have nuggets for professionals who are aspiring to increase their professional digital presence, both for their campuses and for the field. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:31]: Write the book. If you wanna write the book, make sure it's in the right place. The reason why you think you want to write a book, my number one piece of advice is write it with someone else. Or it might be great, maybe I was the queen of committee work. I loved it. I was good at it but also then I was, like, I just wanna close myself in my office and be alone. A book project where you're already with working with so many people, it might be a glorious thing for you to get to do something on your own. I would also say just like you need to rearrange the furniture of your life when you do your doctorate, a book will be the same that you will need to and or it's just not gonna get done. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:18:09]: And I would say what I have learned is make it a living thing. What I don't like about books is then they are printed and you can't change it like you can on the Internet. Mhmm. And my book is already very outdated. And I have to think about how do I keep contributing to that topic or leave it entirely and or what is the future versions of it, whether if it's me that's contributing or other people. And I think maybe that's just a lifelong learner in me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: So now let's jump back because you are one of the most, I think, beautifully present people in the campus partner space. We know you well. We see you often. We see you engage with professionals both on and off campus. But that transition was, I think, a scarier leap when you made it than I think it's a little more common now. Tell us about making the determination to discontinue campus based work and, as you put it, accidentally build a business. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:08]: Yes. I think I blogged about this and shared a bit on my podcast, but I think it's good to share the full breadth of the story. I mean, not too long. I swear. I won't be too long winded because it was difficult not just in the doing but the unweaving and rebuilding of my identity. And so it started with applying for a position that I did not receive that was gutting and required me to reconsider and it was an internal position. And I looked around and I there was nowhere else on campus that I could see myself which also scared the heck out of me because I was 6 months into a doc program. I was like, well, is this place even for me? And my husband and I were out for a run. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:51]: I all of a sudden just start crying uncontrollably. He's like, did you fall? And he knew I was kind of having a hard time. And he's like, we're okay. Like, what if you just did school? And I'm like, who you. I've been working since I was 12. Work is my identity. I grew up in a low income and middle class family in Wyoming. My grandparents are all ranchers. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:20:13]: Like, work is what we do. It was never even a consideration of not doing. I sat on it for a couple of months and it started to grow on to me. So, honestly, it even started with the idea and so that might resonate with some listeners of what it means to just do school full time and not be contributing to your family or needing to take out other resources, that that internal struggle is real and validated. But then what I didn't anticipate was leaving my job then and the excitement and the going away parties that then went away in 2 months and I completely was in a free fall. My mental health, you know, you can that I discovered panic attacks and anxiety? And I've always, I think, had anxiety, but it cracked open, again, just doing school. And I had busied myself so much. Again, queen of committees. Put me in everything. Do everything. Output. So I blogged every day for 50 days and just poured myself into Twitter now x, where I found a community where student affairs used to be very active Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:21:30]: Of colleagues, friends, and just continue to go there. That was, like, my water cooler. And by the time I graduated, I was already starting to get invited to do speaking because I was blogging my coursework and you could still do this. Set up a substack and share what you wrote about on Black board, like or it literally could be, this is a quote from my paper that you did because that's how I just started to share the work I was doing. I was still terrified that what I was doing wasn't real or worthy. So I picked up, like, 4 adjunct positions at once and doing some speaking on the side. But I always had this, I need a plan b. So I'm still looking at jobs. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:15]: I'm, like, doing the speaker circuit thing. And it wasn't until, honestly, a couple years before the pandemic that I finally said, Josie, you need to make a commitment. Is this a business? Are you in or you're out? Because mentally, it's also tormenting. And so then I did. I've I I mean, I literally took out, like, a license that, you know, like I'm incorporated now and, brought on people to help me. And I just think to acknowledge and not to scare people of, like, you make this transition, there might be mental health impacts, like, things that were kind of already residing that I would say have resources ready for you at the ready and to bet on yourself too. I didn't bet on myself early enough because honestly, I think people listening in higher ed will get this. We're a perfectionist. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:07]: We don't want to fail. And I was scared if I called it a business and it didn't make it, then I was gonna be a failure. And that held me back though for what could've and is coming to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:19]: You've said a couple of things that I I think are really important to touch back to. And the first is that I think in student affairs, especially, there's a lot of identity wrapped up in the profession, in a job title, in a job function. I think that's partly because the outside world doesn't grasp the profession. And a lot of times, our own families and partners don't grasp the profession, and so we kind of hang on to the identity maybe a little bit tighter than other professions may. And so letting go of that is not just transitioning a career. It's figuring out where that piece of you goes or what happens to it, after you transition. That's a big one. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:59]: Well, and some of that is not knowing what box to check. NASCLA only just recently added a consultant membership or, you know, or I wouldn't be able to go to certain things. I had to have a campus affiliation and there was a sense of it wasn't embarrassment but I was very fearful people were gonna see me as an outsider, that I was gonna be cold calling them and so, I also I've always been centered in community and relationships which, so I've been doing sales but in a heart centered way because I need to work. I need to make it. I'm going to make this work. Right? But I had to do a lot of money stuff on weaving some of that money mindset things in order to build a business, that wasn't that was going to be productive. In higher ed very much. There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition and higher ed very much. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:59]: There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition story. I have a friend who researches entrepreneurship. They're an assistant professor in the College of Business, and that's kind of their their area of research. And they have found through their research that the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones who tilt in a 100%, the ones who actually take away their safety net, which is the most terrifying thing that you can do. But it sounds like that's what you did. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:23]: Yeah. You should have sent me that article. Yeah. And I think just even not saying I'm my only identity is entrepreneur, but not resisting that. And I don't have an MBA. I swear I don't know what I'm doing half the time on business side, but I'm seeking out different types of mentors. And I'm also finding others, and you're one of them now, in a different type of way that we need our own resources as campus partners in community, in how we can transform the industry too because it needs to be done from the outside. And it's not outside in a negative way. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:59]: It's actually more it's gonna be more impact full in the end. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:03]: Let's talk about that transition to being a CEO, so your your own boss and your own employee, but also a person who's driving their own schedule, driving when you work and when you don't, setting your own limits, deciding when enough is enough for a day, a week or a month, that feels really overwhelming to me, just looking at the lack of limit and needing to self impose as a person who also drives with a lot of purpose. How did you figure that out? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:26:30]: Oh, trial and error and lots of therapy and hiring a coach. Mhmm. So I brought on a business coach and you'll just laugh at me what she caught on quickly that I was a workaholic that especially when the business wasn't doing well, to me, you just work more. It's almost like your punishment then. You have to work every single day. And one of her first homework assignments was, she's like, I want you to take every Sunday off. And I looked at her. We negotiated it to one Sunday off a month. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:00]: That's what I negotiated it down. I'm embarrassed. Like, I put up such a front that I couldn't even imagine what it would be to not work one day a week or what a month, let alone a whole weekend. And by the time we finished our work together, my husband and I also purchased an RV and I took off 6 weeks. So you can't sometimes we don't see how we are in our own ways. We need people and it doesn't mean you have to pay people to tell you that, but I needed that mirror because at the same time, I was completely this was toward the end of the book and, you know, we're in a pandemic. I was completely crumbling, like, the foundation was so weak and I just kept jumping on the trampoline, like, no, it's not. So I have known I've really I have to prioritize it. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:55]: I will edit this because it is a professional podcast. But I may be my own boss, but she can be a real bee sometimes. I have very high expectations of myself. So I need other people to help me make sure I'm staying grounded. And I've also realized that I don't like to work alone and while I'm sacrificing financially, in November, I brought on my very first full time employee which was both terrifying and exciting for someone else to be relying on you. But I'm also so strategically and to wanna grow. And but for some people listening, they might or you've already built your own person shop and that's that can be great too. We all we don't all need to turn into these big agencies or or whatever. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:28:51]: I think that's the other piece that I found. You get to define not only your time, but how you are going to structure your your business. It's so funny when you think about a dissertation is such a recipe card. Sure, you can mess it up, but, like, it is so structured. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:08]: Chapters 1 through 5, maybe 6. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:11]: Yeah. And then this is what you write, this is what you say, you've got this feedback. Being an entrepreneur is not a whole bunch of it. And I am a recovering control girly. And sometimes you have to let it go and sometimes you have to be like, what do I want? I could do anything today. Well, not always, but from now, I work at WeWork sometimes or I need to get out of the house more. So I also joined a gym that is right next to WeWork. Giving yourself permission to really pay attention how you work best and how Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: you're gonna best make that impact. Can you talk a little bit about how your views on the profession changed from being a campus based professional to being a campus partner? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:51]: Oh, wow. How they have changed. Well, it is nice to see that there is more of a acknowledgment of how the work by partners, by consultants, whatever they're called, are necessary and we're not it's not just about the money or adversarial. That's been just good for my own mental health and where I fit into things. I see much more macro things happening. I mean, we were just talking, before we started recording about we're losing really great people. We that our students need those people. The the mental health weight of this work, it makes me want to do something bigger than my myself or what my business provides. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:30:35]: And so that's why a lot of my work is just trying to put good minds together, whether if that's on a panel, in a Slack channel because I can't do it all, but I just wanna connect all the people to help because it still blows my mind how many people like, they say student affairs is a small world, but it's not. Even people I'm like, wait. You don't know each other? Like, how in the world does this not happen? And that that honestly brings me more joy sometimes than, like, being asked to speak somewhere is that then I get to I mean, it's the same thing with our students, right? We get to go see what they do with the rest of their lives. I would also say it's only to a certain extent, but so many of the challenges you're facing, a million others are on their institutions to like I'm not saying normalize it, but for example, social media, I can anticipate what I'm gonna be finding in consulting or coaching and exec. We we can be so hard on ourselves. We're not far enough along. Our engagement isn't going well. Just hear it from me. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:29]: Like, it's all a bit of a struggle. And that could kind of be nice to hear. Like, oh, it's not just me. I feel a little and that's not just with social. It could be a variety of different topic. Oh my gosh. And honestly, what I am finding is and what I'm bummed so bummed about, even in grad school and maybe programs are doing better now. I feel like I was hid from what our admissions and enrollment people really were doing and are up against Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:56]: And I think we're having because especially we're seeing student affairs and enrollment pair up but I I don't know if it was the institutions I was at or where I got my grad program but, like, I feel like it was, like, we don't talk about that. That's not your place. You just focus here. And I think that's such a disservice because even when I talk to marketers or enrollment people, I'm like, y'all are y'all are doing the work of student success, right? And even they're not hearing that. Mhmm. So somewhere in our echo chambers, that is being perpetuated to continue and I think the institutions that are doing the best, sure, we've got department names and divisions are we need a collective effort. We obviously all need to do what our work or tasks are meant to do, but it's not doing a service to, like, keep people not understanding how they could make an impact on enrollment. I really appreciate you Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:50]: mentioning that because I think that aligns with a lot of my experiences as well. Even, even sitting in an ADP or a CSAO seat, you know, the enrollment side can have a level of mystique to it. And it's interesting having spent a career in higher education, and I don't think I could advise, a high school student the best way to craft their application for admissions at this point because it is, a, still a little mystical, but, b, because it's different everywhere. And that's that's interesting if you really break it down on how siloed our profession can be within itself sometimes. But when we can connect those things, the power in that is really extraordinary. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:33:34]: Right. Even within in within our campus walls, in different divisions, we we're having similar challenges of retaining a certain type of staff or again, I just I think we're missing out so many ways of going back to the beginning of humanizing the work that we do and workplace challenges in addition to students just want to learn. And no matter what the title of the department is, sometimes that bureaucracy gets in the way. And I once I love social media because it kind of doesn't care. Like, a student's gonna find what they wanna find wherever they're gonna find it no matter what the title is. And if they can't find it on your website because they probably aren't, they're gonna ask on Reddit, and it may or may not be But I would say I am excited. I am energized and I just wanna say one more thing that I haven't said that I especially say to a lot of people that come to me. They're like, I wanna start my own business. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:34:38]: I wanna be a consultant. From the beginning, I had a partner in this with me, And we have gone ebbs and flows of sometimes it's more me, sometimes it's more him in order to do this work. That is a privileged place to be in that I fully acknowledge both financially, emotionally, that I wish people could just do the thing they wanna do immediately. But there were times if I didn't have a partner, I would also have needed another job or 2 to make ends meet. And I think people need to hear it both in an ethical way, but also there are ways that you could start doing speaking consulting immediately. There's no reason that you need to do it fully as a full time thing. That would also be great for you to get experience and to see if that's something that you'd really wanna do because it's not easy either. There's some some gritty parts of it that may not be a good fit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:29]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:35]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world to let you know about some amazing things that are happening in the profession. 1st and foremost, there are a few brand new NASPA books that are in the NASPA bookstore. The first, Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics by Jackie Clark, Jeanette Smith and Associates. This book offers unique insights into critical issues facing higher education and student affairs. It was written by a diverse team of practitioners and faculty. This comprehensive volume serves as both a primer on contemporary topics and a tool for practitioners and students. Some of the chapters in the book address HISA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:23]: Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and at least 1 faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice and students and faculty in preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. The second book, Crucial Collaborations, A Practical Framework to Ensure Access, Equity, and Inclusion for students with disabilities. This was written by Neil Lipsitz, Michael Berger, and Eileen Connellberger. Ensuring access and sense of belonging for students with disabilities in higher unique organizational structure, culture, faculty, staff, and students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:25]: This book presents a cross functional framework that administrators, faculty, access service providers, parents and guardians, and students themselves that can be used in the review and responsibilities of each stakeholder who contributes to positive post secondary experiences for students with disabilities. The groundbreaking framework has many applications, including facilitating student inclusion and socialization, empowering stakeholders through shared knowledge, and assessing the efficacy and effectiveness of institutional programs for students with disabilities. Throughout the book, the authors discuss their personal and professional experiences to animate and operationalize the framework. One other thing that I wanted to share with all of you today is a brand new book in the NASPA book store. It's a book in the NASPA book store called The Business of Student Affairs Fundamental Skills for Student Affairs Professionals written by Larry Mineta and Ellen Jay Consulting. This book is a primer on the fundamental business related aspects of student affairs that all practitioners need to know. Drawing on his 46 year career in higher education, Larry Mineta, the author, presents critical skill sets to better equip student affairs practitioner educators to analyze circumstances, alter environments, invest in structures and programs, and lead campus progress. Topics include financing and budgeting, organizational design, human resources, facilities management, technology, auxiliary operations, legal issues and risk management, crisis management, strategic planning and communications. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:58]: The key takeaways in each chapter provide further guidance to achieve success in the field. For anyone going into student affairs or new to student affairs, you may find that many of the topics in this book may not have been covered in your graduate preparation program or maybe something that you just need more insight into. And this book definitely provides you with that insight. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA bookstore today and check it out for yourself. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:20]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. We know we just came out of annual conference, but there is still a lot more opportunities for engagement. So I appreciate you letting us know what those are. And, Josie, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you, 90 seconds. Ready? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:10]: Okay. Okay. I'm scared. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:12]: Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:17]: Well, I am a conference keynote speaker. I have to pick Beyonce's new tunes. Any of the 3 that have come out recently, I think at that point, I wanted to be a swim coach. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: I was a swimmer. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:43]: Ed Cabellan. He brought me under his wing early, early days meeting on Twitter, and he sponsored to help me get to my very first ACPA conference to present Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:54]: with him. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. The Chronicle. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:03]: Why did Tiger King immediately come to mind? It was not the best. It was just the first thing I thought of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:08]: Oh my gosh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:09]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:13]: Well, it is mine, Josie and the podcast, because of editing and creating. But, my Spotify rap tells me Armchair Expert is, all their different shows are super fun. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:31]: Oh my gosh. I think I'm especially maybe it's from the Barbie, Taylor Swift, Beyonce movement. It's a summer for women and girls, and I am also just, like, on fire about that. So I just wanna give a shout to all the women and girlies listening and, I mean, all gender unconforming identities that we need space and community and and being lifted up. And so I'm doing a lot of different groups and meetups to do things like that, but we're taking over, Jocey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:00]: I'm so grateful to you for this 2 part episode. Again, part 1 dropped on Josie's podcast, Josie and the podcast. This is part 2 of the conversation. So if you'd like to go back and listen to part 1, go ahead and find her show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you download your podcasts. But, Josie, if folks would like to engage you as a consultant or just have a chat with you, how can they reach you? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:21]: Well, you can find me at josiealquist.com, blogging, podcasting, all of the things. I am on Instagram, LinkedIn threads, x is swirling as it does. And I actually do have a TikTok, but currently it's all reactions to my husband's content, which is epic rap battles of history. So if you want that type of entertainment, you can go there. And as Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:44]: you search for Josie, so that's Alquist with an a h l q right in there. Josie, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:53]: Thanks for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:57]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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BONUS: From Crisis to Comfort: The Art of Caring Leadership in Student Affairs 41:36

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Navigating Unprecedented Challenges The COVID-19 pandemic introduced a myriad set of challenges, upending the traditional norms and necessitating an urgent pivot towards empathetic leadership. Higher education, a particularly affected sector, had to swiftly evolve, fostering an environment where staff felt supported amidst the ensuing chaos. Embodying Transparency and Support Amy Hecht from FSU and Matt Imboden of Wake Forest University underline the importance of transparent communication and authentic actions from leaders. Through initiatives like FSU’s Culture and People program, leadership at these institutions exemplified the care and long-term investment in their staff’s career trajectories. Similarly, David Chao from the University of Pittsburgh highlighted a newfound focus on self-care, crucial for maintaining a balanced support system for students. Spaces for Grief and Adaptation Andy Wiegert at Washington University and Rachael Amaro of Cal State Fullerton share the vital role that organized grief spaces and an open line for support can play in sustaining staff well-being in times of loss. Melinda Stoops from Boston College emphasizes how institutional efforts to secure staff job assurance during such periods is a testament to caring leadership. Professional Development and Well-being Investment in professional growth and well-being, as recounted by Jackie Yoon from Harvard, ensures that employees feel valued and are more likely to contribute positively. The approach by Shatera Davis’s leadership at Northeastern in Seattle during the pandemic harmonizes with this by preserving jobs and maintaining a connected community despite quarantine. Leading by Example The narrative of Leanna Fenneberg from Duquesne University describes leading staff reductions with care, prioritizing a loving environment even during departures. Moreover, Darlene Robinson of Seton Hall University speaks to the strategic support provided by listening leaders who aid employees during career transitions. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome to our second of 3 bonus episodes from the annual conference. Chris and I were able to move about the conference and talk to a couple dozen of you about your thoughts on the various foci areas. Today's question will focus on the 2nd conference focus area, which was Care in Chaos. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:42]: And the question we asked you was can you share an example of a time or a hope when a supervisor or organization provided effective care and support to employees during times of significant change or uncertainty in their careers. A lot of you had some really wonderful examples of how your organization Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:07]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University and I am a trio professional for 23 years. I believe that my supervisor as well as my campus have been very conscious of caring for the employees, giving us what we have need of whether that's time off, whether that's just opportunities to take a minute break, areas on campus where we could take minute breaks, and also providing just that continuum of care where we feel the liberty to be able to talk. So I think that that's what I've experienced. Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement leadership and service there. Well, I mean, the one that comes most comes to mind first, most recently we had, unfortunately, 2 deaths on our campus. 1 of a former student and one of a current student. And while all of us were trying to spring into action to figure out how to care for students, in the midst of that, I was really impressed by the institution trying to find also ways to support those who were caring for those students. Our vice president for student affairs, who is newer to her role but not to our institution, made really intentional efforts to reach out to folks via email or text or when she saw them to take the time to show appreciation and care for the work that they were doing, recognizing the importance of it, but also encouraging folks to take care of themselves. And I think little acts like that go much further than some people may realize. And I think it meant the world to the staff who were doing the work. In times of crisis or difficult issues on campus, it's always really nice, I think, to have that recognition and affirmation of you're doing a great job and I'm right here beside you. But don't forget to take care of yourself too. Adrienne White [00:03:01]: I'm doctor Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I think my supervisor during COVID was remarkable in terms of how she supported us during certain times. And personally, during COVID, my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. And so on top of dealing with personal things, I'm now having to also grapple with how am I supporting my team at the same time. But then, also, how am I supporting myself during all of this and putting well-being at the forefront of our work. And I was extremely blessed to have a supervisor that allowed me the autonomy to create well-being opportunities for my team, but also well-being opportunities that worked for me as well because I was my mother's primary caretaker. And so, I adjusted my schedule. Adrienne White [00:03:53]: I went on 4:10 hour workday schedule because I needed to go to all a lot of doctor's appointments and be there with her during her treatment, and that was a significant moment in my life, in my career. And having the support of my supervisor and knowing that my supervisor has my back, right, knowing that my supervisor supports the decisions I need to make to take care of myself and to my team, you just can't put a number on that. It's incredibly important and has completely transformed my thought process and my leadership as well. Susan Hua [00:04:29]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use sheher pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. A hope that I have for supervisors or organizations to provide effective care and support to employees is to really just be intentional about how they are mentoring and having conversations with their employees during times of uncertainty during their careers. I think it's helpful to understand and really holistically look at your employees instead of just seeing them as one role or one fraction of your department, and to really understand that they have lives outside of the field as well, and to understand how to support their whole selves in the work journey that they have. Aileen Hentz [00:05:09]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I think constant communication was very important during times, especially when we're looking at budget cuts, furloughs, when we're looking at possible changing in policy that could have an impact on our office or our jobs. Just not being left in the dark was incredibly important, I think. So that kinda constant communication, opening things up. I loved when my supervisor was like, you know, I'm not supposed to tell you all this, but I'm gonna tell you anyway because I feel like you need to know. And that was really helpful for me when we were facing some of those uncertainties. Stephen Rice [00:05:49]: Stephen Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. I've been very fortunate to have a lot of supervisors who really take the time to get to know me and provide me with the resources and support. And so when tough times happen, they're able to really provide me with that information that I need. My current supervisor, Darren, always takes the time out to really talk to me about different cases and different situations. When things go awry, cause I work in student conduct, really provides that support that I need for those of things. And as an effect of that, I'm able to do that for the team that I supervise of 6 individuals to really help them in their growth through or different times and provide them support. And it goes with 1 on 1 conversations, getting to know who they are, what they're passionate about, understanding their strengths, tapping into those strengths, seeing things that they may not see about themselves, and really getting them to to do those different things and challenging support them in the way so they are very effective, in what they do. And as a result, they have better tools when they're looking for the next step that they're able to move forward with it. Amy Adam [00:06:47]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years serving graduate students. I've been so, so lucky in my 20 years with supervisors and organizations. I work in the School of Information Science and Learning Technologies. So we have mostly distant students, but all of the faculty and staff are located in the same building. Really, my first supervisor, doctor John Wedman, was one of a kind. He passed away about 9 years ago, but he really was that mentor to get me into student services and really just encouraged me to advocate for myself, advocate for my students, and to build the relationship with faculty, but to remember not to let them take advantage of me and the willingness that I have to do work. So, really, just making sure that I keep students first and foremost in my goal for my job has been the biggest thing. And really even through COVID, my current department chair has been amazing with flex time and just making sure that we take time for ourselves. You can't just sit at your desk all day. You've gotta get out, gotta get water, go take a break, go play with your dog. So I just feel very lucky that I've had that type of relationships with my supervisors. Stephanie Cochrane [00:08:14]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. That's a great question. I think COVID created a huge shift in our entire world and our way of thinking about student support, and our dean at the Toronto campus has been really effectively caring for our our employees as well as our students, thinking about hiring the correct resources, asking for input from the people who are working there and dealing with the students on a daily basis to see what our students need and keeping that student centered mindset at all times. Amy Hecht [00:08:52]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. At Florida State, we've launched a new position and program called Culture and People, and it's really about helping people feel at home in Tallahassee where FSU is located, connecting to other people outside their division, celebrating people, and rewarding them, and also developing them, coaching them, and that's been very helpful for people to feel supported and valued, but also that somebody cares about their long term career trajectory. Shatera Davis [00:09:32]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use sheher pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. I think the most recent time and then the most impactful time was during the pandemic when I worked in housing before and everyone thought that they wouldn't have a job because our students were moving out. And so our leadership did a really great job of saying this is where we're at. I'm being transparent on what the leadership conversations were and then ultimately giving us opportunities to do other work besides being, like, resident directors in order to keep our jobs and keep our housing during that time. And then doing the most to make sure that we all felt community because while we were having to quarantine, we felt that we were all by ourselves. None of us have roommates, and so being intentionally using the spaces and the meetings we had to, like, build communities, check-in, and still just being transparent on where we're at and, like, how we're supporting students, but also how we're supporting ourselves during that time. Andy Wiegert [00:10:25]: I am Andy Wiegert, Director of Graduate Student Affairs, Arts and Sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Gosh. Yeah. I mean, we've kind of seen a lot in our time. Obviously, having gone through COVID is the one that stands out the most, but we've also recently experienced things like, you know, a tragic death of a student. And that's really difficult because you have administrators who are both trying to support students, but at the same time are also experiencing their own grief and trauma. And so it really has been neat to see some of our leaders recognize that, acknowledge that, and create spaces not just for our students to grieve, but also for our staff, our faculty, and support folks. Scott Peska [00:11:10]: Hi. Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, assistant provost of student services. I would say that this was a few years back, quite a few years back when I worked in res life, but I recall when 911 took place right there was some real challenge with direction during that time and really giving staff the space to not only help their students go through and kind of process, but to give us time to process individually was really important. And to really think about you're gonna deal with a lot of crisis management in higher education. And so are you prepared for this? You need to get yourself in a space to do that. And so being able to give us time to actually give us strategies, talk to people that were crisis managers and kinda looking at preparing that, that was helpful. Dilna Cama [00:11:53]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. My most recent supervisor, he did our organization was down to 2 of us, and we were essentially scratching everything and building a start up. And his support and the way he really reminded me we can do anything, we can't do everything. And that's something I remind myself each and every day. And so really keep making sure that I'm focused on what is most important has really allowed me to remain positive. And definitely the way in which he provided support, I think, was very notable. Sabina Kapoor [00:12:42]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. And I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. What comes to mind is a few, the pandemic. During that time, a lot of universities were downsizing, and my university that I was at was no exception. And so it was really interesting because it was unprecedented in how many people were part of a workforce reduction. And so how the university supported people at that time, it was interesting. Sabina Kapoor [00:13:31]: I think the university really didn't know how to. And then you had the people that stayed that weren't, let go. And so I felt like they had survivor's remorse, and so it's real interesting. And so I think now is something hopefully, that won't happen again to that extent, not just my previous university, but other universities and colleges as well. But if it did, I think institutions know now how to handle that better and have that human touch. Carlie Weaver [00:14:01]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. I'm not really sure how to answer that because I do feel like I don't really find myself being uncertain in my career because my supervisor, Kristen Merchant, hurt you, and Kristen Lloyd are very, very supportive in helping me to find my footing in my own voice and my role. Roxanne Wright Watson [00:14:31]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. I think my direct supervisor, my dean, is supportive of what we do in the classroom, how we help our students. And in particular, a situation that I can recall is during COVID. During COVID, I think they were supportive to us in terms of having to just switch from face to face classes to online classes. The support was there. The support in getting things to instructors, supervisors did and how they helped us, the supervisors did and how they helped us as faculty. Yes. Carla Ortega Santori [00:15:27]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. I think everyone went through significant changes in 2020. Obviously, our director and leader was really great about embracing that level of uncertainty and creating a safe space for everyone to also attend to their needs, be they professional or personal. Another big, I think, time of uncertainty or significant change was when we changed directors, and I think both the outgoing and incoming directors were really great at defining our roles and clarifying expectations really clearly, so that was really helpful. Laying out a vision and also being okay with if we needed to change that vision or significantly alter it to accommodate our current needs was also really helpful. Rachael Amaro [00:16:41]: I'm Rachael Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think a good example of that is the faculty who's the director of our EDD program. We had a really rough patch in our department, you know, between the faculty. The faculty were having issues with each other, which of course, the students pick up on, everybody picks up on. It makes the whole environment a little challenging, but my EDG director was always very level headed and very understanding and always open to saying, hey, if there's something going on, like, please let me know, like, don't, you know, don't keep things. It's important that I know what's happening so that we can all figure out what is going on and how everybody's feeling, at least in the office side, because the fact are gonna be themselves. They were having some issues with each other. Rachael Amaro [00:17:29]: The staff, obviously, we were okay with each other, but obviously it all affects everything, so I really appreciated her always being so confident and always so caring and open, and always checking in and making sure we were doing okay when we had some rough times with our own leadership within our department, she was always the one person that we knew we could count on. And, you know, she's the one person that asks how you're doing, Jess, how your parents are doing. It's just those simple acts make a big difference. Christine Wilson [00:17:59]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our director for our masters in student affairs program. I saw the leadership of our student affairs organization exhibit tremendous humility and vulnerability directly after the pandemic when there had been some things that were not seen that impacted fairly large number of staff, and they were unseen largely because of the pandemic. It was much harder to get a pulse on what was happening, and what was happening did impact a lot of people. And in order to heal that, our leadership really had to show tremendous humility and vulnerability. And the fact that they did that allowed the healing to begin to happen. And a year later, the organization was healthier, even maybe a little better for what they've learned. Olivia Ruggieri [00:18:53]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to college in Florida, and came out here in 2013, but I've been working for the university since since 2018. I would say that right now, there's a big shift towards, not centralization, but standardization of policies across our network of campuses. And so while for folks, at my level, like the ops leads on our campuses, we already do a lot of coordination between each other. We know each other well. But for the folks on our teams, like our operation specialists, our event specialists, they had not yet built their network with each other. Olivia Ruggieri [00:19:34]: And so, coming out of our Vancouver campus, someone named Kayla organized a, mentoring, like, work group for all of those folks, which has been really amazing. So now, folks who are new to the org are mentored by folks who have been here a little bit longer. Those folks are mentored by people that whose roles they might be interested in the future, and I've found that this has helped some of that standardization that's coming across all of our campuses, and we're gonna be well equipped for the future. Christle Foster [00:20:05]: Hi. My name is Christle Foster and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Y Mills. I'm gonna point to the pandemic since it's so recent and I will say that our leadership at Chesapeake was very responsive and one of the things that they definitely emphasized was care. Self care as well as caring for our students and I've seen that change even when we returned to the college. With the CARES funds that we have, a lot of it was allocated to students who are going through mental health challenges as well as financial challenges, food insecurity, housing insecurity, and there was a lot of response in which those funds were put to, trying to retain those students and also help those students over those challenges. Nathalie Waite Brown [00:20:46]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. From a personal perspective, the institution that I worked at when I joined a few years following, we had a new president that came to the institution, and it was during a time where there was a lot of turmoil. And I believe that the leadership that remained really was committed to retaining staff and faculty in a way that was intentional and purposeful, not just for our students, but also for the climate of the employees and welcoming and supporting the new president. And that's something that's been impactful in my career. That was 11 years ago, and it it's still something that resonates with me. Dae'lyn Do [00:21:28]: My name's Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence Program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA CASE co chair. I mean, I have been lucky to have some really great supervisors in my career and definitely supervisors who focus on that work life balance and really making sure that they're taking care of their employees and not giving them time for themselves when they've had like a high busy time. Making sure that we're building in those days and those breaks for ourselves, whether it's in the day to day or whether it's in the busier seasons. I feel like I have been really lucky to rely on some great supervisors who just really prioritize that and know that we are workers outside of we're people outside of our jobs too. Natalie DeRosa [00:22:18]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So my supervisor has been an amazing support for me personally when some of my programming had the plug bolt on it this year, and being that space where I can just grieve that that happened, that meant a lot to me. And also, we're still looking for ways to bring back the programming. I work at a community college, so sustaining programming is always a challenge for us. So being able to talk to my supervisor about it and have her be just right there as we're experiencing it has lended a lot of support to me professionally. Dan Volchek [00:22:58]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. My relationship with expect that and hope that in a supervisor. So as we're going through changes and uncertainty, both professionally in the career and at the institution, they were working as a team and they were talking. And sometimes that has happened and sometimes that hasn't, but that's a very important way to get through when issues come up. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:31]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. I think, interestingly, you know, coming out of the pandemic, we were so used to being at home for 2 years and then coming back to campus with the thought of we're gonna be there a 100% of the time when literally our lives have readjusted based on on the pandemic. So one thing I advocated for was a work from home policy. We didn't have one across the institution. It was based on each department. So putting together a proposal, which was then accepted by our vice president and saying that, you know, this is what we can do. So that, I think, was really powerful because our staff knew and got the message that our executive administrators care. Darlene Robinson [00:24:14]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE general and director for Seton Hall University. I can speak to that in a sense that being that I'm just moving in to this career, I spent over 15 years in the financial aid department, and I just moved over to student services. And with this move, the supervisor that I currently have now has been very strategic in listening to me as a person, asking questions of how and what I need, and how he can be of service as well as influence. Whatever it is that I need to do my job in the Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:24:59]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I have been very fortunate as a individual to have had amazing mentors, supervisors, sponsors throughout my career. Faculty members that have really taught me, guided me, coached me at different aspects of my career. And so when I think about a specific time, the easy place for me is thinking about what we as a community, as a planet, have navigated these last 4 plus years of COVID through that particular global crisis. I think about the patience, the openness, the modeling that I saw from supervisors, from organizational leaders related to bringing people in, leaning in to the moment, to what individuals needed, and really giving us the capacity to rethink how we approach work, life, care, concern for each other and for the students that we serve. And so one of the things that I work very hard to do is not to romanticize that global crisis, but I am trying to make sure that I don't forget the lessons that were learned from the flexibility, the love, and the care that we demonstrated to each other to be able to navigate that time and that space. And so that would be something that I saw both from supervisors and from organizations. I hope that we continue to allow those experiences to be centered as we move forward in our work. David Chao [00:26:29]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. For sure during COVID, I think everyone became so much more attentive towards self care. And I'm not even just in higher education, I feel just like in the workplace in general, everyone just seemed to be working harder than their parents type mentality. And I think since then we've understood about the balance that, you know, we can't assist our students and serve them if we don't take care of ourselves as well. And some of the advice we give to them, we should probably take as well. Melinda Stoops [00:27:01]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In terms of looking at times when there's been significant change or and uncertainty in everyone's life. And in higher education, there were just all of us going home for periods of times and uncertainty in what our roles were in specific moments when everyone's off campus. How are our roles different, and what can we do to contribute, and what are we needed to do to contribute? And I feel like that that was a time where there was a lot of uncertainty, and I think one thing I appreciated about that was my institution's stance of there's a lot of uncertainty, but we are really going to make a real point to care for our employees during this time. Now with that said, again, we were off campus, so caring can show up in different ways. But feeling like they were like, we are concerned about employees. We wanna make sure that you all are healthy, that you all know that your job is secure, and just that really that in and of itself went a long way. And it felt so fortunate because I know not everyone was in that same position, and I felt very privileged to be able to receive that support from my employer. I know that my colleagues on my campus were as well. Derek Grubb [00:28:26]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. I've been fortunate to have a lot of supervisors and colleagues I think that I've learned from how to be effective, but one more recently was past president. Really taught me the value valuing people, celebrating even the small wins, and really how that promoted a environment of caring, great place to work mindset. Matt Imboden [00:28:50]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the he, him pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I'm sure there'll be some point at which my mind doesn't completely shift to the COVID experience when somebody asked this kind of a question, but I am not at that point yet. So my mind as you were speaking, Chris, went immediately to COVID as a time that I think revealed leadership or lack thereof depending on the experience. But that's exactly one of those stressors I just talked about in terms of uncertainty that you were talking about because my goodness. I remember feeling particularly impacted when people walk the walk and just didn't talk the talk of either high level administrators who personally sacrificed in the face of budget cuts to touch their own compensation or to really demonstrate not just sort of with words, but showed me that they're in this too and that makes you want to give as an individual and I think role model that for other people on your campus. And so that stands out for me of throughout all that COVID uncertainty when all of us were pulling out the depths of our leadership ability and administrative capabilities just to see people who, went beyond the talk and really walked the walk of leadership. Evette Castillo Clark [00:30:01]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I'll think of myself in this as a supervisor. When you can't give or when I can't give the gift of money, I know that in times of need or support to my team, I'm gonna give the gift of time. So when I look at them, if my team or my staff are exhausted, I always talk to them about tag in and tag out. If you need the time or you need the break, me as a supervisor, I have to be very understanding of that. If you can't always offer additional monies for stipend, you gotta give the gift of time. And you have to understand that people need to regroup, and people need people need time to refuel and regain their energy. So in times like this, campus climate issues, post pandemic breaks are needed, and I think I also have to model that as well. Madeline Frisk [00:30:56]: I started this job at Portland State in 2021, was working remotely up until the fall term. I started in the spring term at our institution, so navigating that shift from remote to in person and also having colleagues that I'd basically just met in person was definitely a difficult time for me, but my boss was very supportive and everyone was very welcoming. I found a community both with our union on campus as well as with my co workers and boss, and that was a great experience being initiated into a really wonderful community at Portland State. Gene Zdziarski [00:31:32]: This is Gene Jarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I can think of a couple of situations. I will go back 25 years to Texas A&M University when I was a young staff member there, and we had an unfortunate tragedy of our traditional bonfire collapsing. And, 12 individuals were killed and 27 others were seriously injured. And the amount of attention and care that was taken by the institution beginning with the president who came in and basically said to all of us who were trying to respond and trying to work with the situation, I don't care how much it costs. I don't I want you to do the right thing. I want you to do whatever it takes to take care of people, and that was such a reassuring thing as you're trying to manage through such a challenging time, and so, for me, that was a significant moment. Gene Zdziarski [00:32:36]: I also had one when I was at DePaul University, and we had a speaker come to campus that really, disrupted the campus community tremendously. I had actually recommended to the president at that time that being a private institution, we could make some decisions about whether or not this speaker really should come to campus. And he said at the moment, no. I think we need to have a process, a plan for that, but we're not in that place right now. I think we need to go ahead and do this. After it happened and there was a lot of backlash from the campus community, he stood by me the entire time and worked with me in meeting with all the different constituencies, stakeholders, and student groups to really listen, hear people out, and then help us begin to build a plan for how we would address that in the future, and that was pretty significant to me. Lyza Liriano [00:33:22]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in housing and residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. Yes. So prior to my role at DePaul, I worked at the University of South Florida, Tampa, and this was only about 2 years ago when there was a lot of political change happening in Florida, and impacted my identities as a queer woman of color. I didn't feel safe being in Florida, but my supervisors at the University of South Florida specifically provided me with hope knowing that I would be safe at my institution, and not only that, that I could still be there for my students. No matter what legislation was saying, we still wanted to build that community and make sure that our students really felt like their needs were being heard. And so I felt that as a professional, and we kind of instilled it to all of our student body as well. So although I did end up leaving, I left knowing that my students were in great hands. Jackie Cetera [00:34:24]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. For this, examples of when this has worked out really well has been when administrators and leaders within the institution really important for leaders to pour into their people and provide guidance even when it might be really hard to do so. Providing space to talk through situations and scenarios and to keep people informed is really, really important. Lisa Landreman [00:35:09]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. I think that COVID is the best example. I feel really proud as an organization, as an institution, how much we held space for our employees, that we gave regular frequent communication as a team of people who were managing the crisis, particularly early on. We did really regular communication. We stayed abreast of what was happening in the world. We thought well about our community. We allowed a lot of flexibility with work even though we were in person for our students. Lisa Landreman [00:35:46]: We gave options both for students and employees to do hybrid work or remote work as needed. I think we also gave a lot of flex to parents who were or people who had family members they were caring for, and so I think we were clear about our expectations for, you know, maybe some of our goals were on hold because we were tending to what was most immediately important and what was reasonable to ask people to accomplish at a time when we were all caring so much in our personal and professional lives. I think that was a way that I was really proud of how we managed that. Jackie Yun [00:36:22]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. Sure. I think I've been lucky at my institution that they have invested heavily in my professional development, and I have been able to go to them and say, I want to learn this thing. This is how I think this connects to what I do. And maybe in some cases, it doesn't always really connect, but they understand that providing me the support to keep learning and to try new things keeps me at the institution and keeps me doing good work for graduate students. Leanna Fenneberg [00:36:55]: Hello. This is Leanna Fenneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I think so many of our institutions are going through reductions in force. I've personally, been impacted by those, and I've had to lead those with staff. And those are some of the most critical times for the people who are departing and for the community members who remain. And so I think of those difficulties as we all have budget reductions and how we can provide a loving supportive environment for all of the employees, even those who are directly affected in helping them support in their next journey and making difficult decisions and communicating those, but doing that in a ethic of care and concern for the individual and providing that kind of supportive community during some of our most difficult times. Jake Murphy [00:37:41]: Jake Murphy. I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. Probably best example is my most recent position with a supervisor. I've just been in the role like about 2 years now. The university had been in a perpetual decline of enrollment for the last 10 years and it was morale was low. Everything was like absolutely terrible and my supervisor employed strategies to make sure that since we can't necessarily pay people the best in student affairs affairs sometimes, that she gave us the opportunity to use whatever time we needed to be felt supported and it really helped all of, like, bolster morale and just helped us avoid burnout which was great. Larry Pakowski [00:38:29]: Larry Pakowski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think COVID is a good example for us all that we all shifted to a remote environment overnight, and then some schools came back sooner, some schools came back later. And I think it was really an exercise in making sure that we not only forgot our people, but also the mission of the college and ensuring that we were doing what we needed to do by students, but also our employees as well. Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:38:56]: Hi. I'm doctor Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. Yeah. So actually, a really good example is this year, we have a new dean of our grad school, Mike Hildreth at University of Notre Dame. And with any new head, new leadership, there's always, like, oh, what is this gonna mean for changes in our programs? But he's really taken the time to, like, sit down and listen to what our offices need and what our students need so that not only are we addressing students' concerns, but we're doing it in a way that's practical for us as employees. Because I think that sometimes we focus only on one side of initiatives and forget, like, well, somebody has to do it and has to have the capacity to do it. I think he's done a really good job and our team at the grad school has done a really good job of keeping those two things in mind. Kristen Merchant [00:39:49]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the union and student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. So my boss's name is also Kristen, but her name is Kristen Lloyd. She always just supports us with whatever we need, asks how we're doing. If she can sense that we're kind of feeling burnt out or tired or exhausted, she always takes the time to check-in with us us and give us some extra time off if we need it, and she just always helps make sure that we feel confident in our roles, and that just makes me feel very, very supported and confident in my roles. Joe Lizza [00:40:25]: My name isDr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. When I was a few years within my first full time job, I knew I wanted some type of change, and I had very supportive supervisors that provided me those opportunities knowing that the growth at the time in my current role and maybe the growth at the institution wasn't necessarily there, but they gave me some tools both through mentoring, but also through professional development opportunities to kinda seek out that next step. And they were just very upfront. I feel like sometimes people kinda string you along. They were very upfront to say, we love your work. You're doing a great job, but maybe your next step is not here. And they really provided that support to look elsewhere, which ultimately then allowed me for advancement outside of that original institution. Joshua Allred [00:41:19]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. Sure. So we had a a pretty significant restructuring in our office a while back, like, about a year ago when our assistant dean left. And I work in an academic affairs unit so they took that time to really kind of restructure and move some pieces around. And so there was an uncertainty in terms of, are our jobs secure? Are our jobs moving around? Are we gonna have some significant changes in, like, what are what's under the purview of our our jobs. And again, I think having strong leadership and having them assure us and and talk through us the entire time as things were being discussed and actually listening to our input and getting feedback from us about our experiences being kind of the boots on the ground people working with students, I thought was really helpful and thoughtful. I think sometimes frustration, especially in uncertainty and during times of change, comes from folks at the top who don't necessarily have the most recent experience working with students in, like, a really direct way, making these really big sweeping decisions and not always taking into consideration the opinions and the feedback from folks who are doing just that. Joshua Allred [00:42:25]: Wow. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do. At Texas A&M, specifically, we just had a major change in who our president is, and we changed from the College of Education to the School of Education and Human Development. There were a lot of the professionals within the College of Education and Human Development who weren't happy with that change and thought that our peers around the country would look at us and say, School of Education and Human Development, we're a college, we do more, we're a research one institution, why is that happening with us? And, again, during that time of change and that time of uncertainty, our focus in the Burns Center was how do we make sure that we are supporting our students and making sure our students are successful? How do we make sure those persistence and retention and graduation rates continue to stay high and how can we raise them? Judy Traveis [00:43:58]: Hi, everyone. I'm Judy Traveis. I'm the associate dean for the Graduate Student Success Center at the University of Florida. I would say recently, I'm from the University of Florida and the Florida landscape has been impacted greatly with big issues in the DE and I space. And I think throughout it all, leadership had town hall meetings and general counsel available to help shape and create our programs so that they can live in the new world. Katie Caponera [00:44:31]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. This past academic year has been one of the most challenging that I've experienced in my 15 years in higher ed, and I know it's been challenging on many campuses. It's felt particularly difficult at Harvard. We're very much in the national spotlight, but I think that what's helped me get through those challenging pieces and times have been the supportive colleagues and my supervisor who's been amazing at checking in and keeping everybody up to date on what's going on, talking through what we may be facing, and being very clear about what expectations are and what strategies are to approach what may be coming to us given the different types of uncertainty and and challenge that are present. Kathy Dilks [00:45:19]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. Supervisors have always been very, very helpful. I think one of the best tips they've ever given me is perception is reality. So anytime that I come with questions or uncertainties or even in my professional outlook, I remember that one phrase over and over again, and I strive to put my best foot forward if I've always had the luxury of working with other people who are able to answer questions, able to guide me along the way. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:45:58]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the u Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folk to kinda place the role. It keeps me steady as a leader and as a member of an organization. It keeps me steady. And be vulnerable, as we talked about. It's a harder one to answer, I think, because particularly the past 4 years have just been so upside down for all of us. And so finding examples of care and support in such an uncertain time, relating back to question 1, is really hard. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:46:30]: But I will name a moment, and it was pre the disruption that we all know of COVID, but it was so fundamental and so just roiling with uncertainty is when I was at Northwestern as the associate vice president and chief of staff, and our vice president passed away. Beloved, long, long battle with cancer, and I will say her name, Patricia Theus Urban, an icon in our field. And it was one of those moments you knew eventually was coming, but it doesn't make it any easier. And the pain and the shock and just the sadness that just infiltrated the division and the campus, and there was a lot of burden that was put on our division to plan her memorial and a whole host of things. So, you know, like, good student affairs professionals, we just jump in and get it done. But during that time, we really tried to provide spaces, conversations, moments, touch points, remembrances of her, and not just at the memorial. We would take moments throughout the coming year to pause, to remember, to talk about, to laugh, to, you know, all the things that you wanna do to move through a really painful time. And, you know, I can look back on it, and that was 5 almost 5 years ago now, which is kind of mind blowing. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:40]: And I'm really proud and honored to have been part of a community that did that for each other. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was me. I'm not gonna stand here and say it was a small group. It really was that full community of student affairs that came together and did that. I think one of the sad things for me is that you don't often see that happen outside of student affairs in higher education, and I think we've got to do better Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: as an Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:47:59]: industry, as a field, in industry, as a field in remembering that we have to show up for each other in these really important ways, large and small. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:48:10]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:49:03]: Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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Transition, Inclusion, and Support: A Conversation with Joisanne Rodgers 39:13

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Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast where we delve into discussions that shape the future of higher education and student support. In today's post, we reflect on the poignant insights from Dr. Joisanne Rodgers, Director of Contemporary Student Services at George Mason University, who recently graced our podcast episode. **Bridging Gaps: From First-Gen Student to Student Advocacy** Dr. Rodgers' noteworthy journey from a security-seeking first-generation college student to a beacon for inclusive education mirrors the ambitions of many striving to find belonging within academia's halls. Her multifaceted career path exemplifies how diverse experiences can coalesce into a powerful drive for institutional change. Rodgers' role at George Mason University is not just about administration; it's about forging connections with and for students who have traditionally been on the periphery of college life support structures. **Language Evolution: A Step Toward Inclusion** The evolution from 'non-traditional' to 'post-traditional' student terminology that Dr. Rodgers discusses signifies an important shift in the higher education lexicon. By moving towards more inclusive language, institutions like George Mason University acknowledge the changing demographics of their student bodies and the unique challenges these students face, underscoring a commitment to support that encompasses not just academic, but life success. **A Supportive Community: More Than Just Space** Dr. Rodgers highlights that creating physical and conceptual spaces for students to flourish is paramount. George Mason University's community spaces, unique ambassador positions, and appreciation events underscore an approach that sees students not as secondary participants in their education but as central figures with rich, intricate narratives expanding beyond the classroom. **Post-Traditional Pioneering: A University's Role** The university isn't just leading the charge through in-house initiatives but is contributing to the broader dialogue on supporting post-traditional students, partnering with organizations such as NASPA. These partnerships foster a crucial exchange of best practices and innovative ideas, equipping institutions to better serve their diverse student populations. **Looking Forward** As Dr. Rodgers and many other advocates for contemporary students make clear, universities have an opportunity and responsibility to adapt, evolve, and provide equitable support. This not only benefits post-traditional students but enriches the entire educational community. Their successes aren't just personal triumphs; they are milestones in the progress towards a more inclusive, holistic approach to higher education. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back for our next episode of essay voices from the field, where once again we were able to sit down with a guest at the NASPA annual conference. I'm pleased to introduce you today to doctor Joisanne Rogers, sheher. Joisanne is a first generation college student, a post traditional student, a life long learner, and an educator passionate about post traditional and contemporary students. Doctor Rogers has worked in higher education for nearly 20 years in various roles, including admissions and recruitment, advising and success coaching, housing and residence life, marketing and outreach, retention initiatives, and student success initiatives. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:55]: She currently serves as director of contemporary student services at George Mason University in Virginia. Doctor Rogers leads a fantastic team of advocates and champions, serving Mason's contemporary student population. This team collaborates and partners throughout the Mason community to support contemporary student belonging, thriving and success. The team are proud recipients of the bronze level 2023, 2024, NASPA Excellence Award in commuter, off campus, military connected, non traditional, and related. Doctor Rogers also serves as an adjunct associate professor at University of Maryland Global Campus, where she earned outstanding adjunct faculty designation as an alumni volunteer at Algany College in Pennsylvania. Doctor Rogers earned a bachelor's in political science and dance studies from Alghany College, a master's in student affairs and higher education from Western Kentucky University, a specialist in leadership from American College of Education, and a doctorate in leadership with a focus on higher education from American College of Education. Her research interests include post traditional and contemporary students, mitigation and elimination of institutional barriers, and student success and retention. Welcome to essay voices, Joisanne. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. And thank you so much for taking time out of your conference schedule to sit with us here in Seattle. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:04]: Absolutely. It's delightful rainy weather, So glad to hang out with you for a bit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: This is my hometown and, you know, people are always like, oh, it must rain a lot in Seattle. I'm like, oh, not really. And I really appreciate that Seattle's like showing out for you all with the rain today. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:20]: It's true. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We also may get to be dodging a protest for a different organization today. So, you know, all sorts of eventful things happening in Seattle. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:28]: Well, coming from DC, I'm I'm a pro. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: Oh, the other Washington. Yeah. The other Washington. The other Washington. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:33]: We got it covered. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:33]: I do when I say I'm from Washington, people go DC and I'm like, no. State. The other other farther away one. But we're really looking forward to learning from you today about your transition story into higher education from an arts background. That's something that you and I share in common. My bachelor's degree is in music performance. And weird fun fact, I used to teach top classes to pay for college. So Nice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:55]: So I'm really looking forward to hearing that from you. We got to know you a little bit at the top of the show through your bio, but we always love to start with asking our guests how you got to your current seat. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:03]: Sure. So first of all, I'm a 1st generation college student, and so I went to undergrad not far from where I grew up. A little bit of safety in that. I knew the institution, knew the campus. And so not knowing much of anything else, that was where I was going. I had friends who went there. So I went to Allegheny College as an undergraduate, majored in political science, and minored in dance studies. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:29]: I taught community ballroom classes. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: So I love this. I love this so much. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:35]: And then I figured out while I was there. I went in, wanting to be a lawyer. That's what I was gonna do. And non spoiler spoiler alert, that's not what I'm doing as I'm on the NASPA podcast. Right? And so I found that those folks that were outside of the classroom were really the folks who were making big differences in what my access and what I could do and how I thought about things and and that kind of stuff and figured out that that was a job. Yeah. Who knew? And so I started looking for programs and positions both and got hired at Western Kentucky University. So I was a full time housing residence life staff member, part time graduate student there. Joisanne Rodgers [00:04:18]: I was an assistant hall director and hall director through that, and then moved to the DC area and realized that many times there's a gap between the academic side of the house and the student affairs side of the house. Mhmm. And I wanted to collect secret decoder rings Oh. To help build those bridges. So I started looking in the DC area for positions that were maybe academic adviser positions or those kinds of things that leaned into the student affairs counseling things that I've been doing just kind of in a different way. And so I became an academic advisor that then kind of morphed into a success coach role at what was then University of Maryland University College is now University of Maryland Global Campus, and started working with post traditional students at a non traditional institution, which was very different than any experience at at the institutions I had been at, small liberal arts, regional with some global reach, into this global giant institution and learned a lot through my work there, but also connecting with colleagues and moved up and around there and decided I should probably go for that next degree because why not? Worked on my doctorate, did my research in institutional barriers for non, post traditional students, and all of that kind of came together for the position that I'm in now at George Mason University. So in 2019, George Mason University created the contemporary student services unit, which is a really innovative, first of its kind way to serve all of these different post traditional populations and the intersectionalities of all of those in a one stop shop kind of way, really. And so, like I said, it's a it's a first of its kind, and as of last Google, the only of its kind. Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:05]: So when I saw the job description, it was one of those things where I took a moment and thought, okay. Either someone is totally stalking me online and created this specifically for me, or I may have just found the job I've always been looking for. Either way, like, I sent it to my friends. I'm like, I'm not misreading this. Right? Like They wrote this for me. Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:25]: They wrote this for me. I didn't completely, like, lose total reading comprehension. Right? So, I had that moment of this is too good to be true. Right? And it wasn't, and that is fabulous. And so I applied and hired on and now work with this incredible team of folks who are dedicated to post traditional students, contemporary students off campus transfer, adult learners, student parents, veteran military connected folks, foster care alumni, system impacted folks. So it's a really great place and a really great space to be innovative and stay ahead and to use all of that background. I like to tell folks because we had a conversation about having that arts beginning that I use my dance theory and knowledge just as frequently student development. It just really depends because they both are part of the everyday process of the work that I do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: I'd like to dig into the language that you're using a little bit because I think that is an evolution and transition of how we've talked about students over 25 and students with children and etcetera, etcetera. So you're now using the term post traditional students and non traditional student is the terming that had been used for years. So tell us, about the inclusion of that new term and how it's reflective of current practice and why it's different. Joisanne Rodgers [00:07:51]: Yeah. So nontraditional, anything non. Right? You're not the usual. That makes you feel great. Right? Like, no. Am I really supposed to be here? But I don't yeah. So there's some othering about that. And so post traditional is more inclusive, still descriptive, and is coming up in the research. Joisanne Rodgers [00:08:12]: More is the the term used. And that definition of that is, yes, 25 and older, but also anyone who has adult, and I'm putting air quotes around that that you can't see, adult responsibilities. So that includes those student parents, married, widowed, divorced, military and veteran connected, although, admittedly, there's a whole another set of criteria and things going on for those folks when we talk about JSTs and all these other things. But so it's more inclusive of that in a kind of a broader umbrella, and the term, the language to it is better, in my humble opinion, for that population. But then elevating that even more, talking about contemporary students at Mason, and our definition of that is, yes, our post traditional, but also our transfer students are part of that. Our off campus students are part of that as well. So those folks who, again, don't fit that traditional mold, who come in with more experience than the traditional student might. And it's really about honoring and seeing the folks, the students that are sitting in front of us and not the picture that we have in our head of 18 straight out of high school straight in has no other responsibilities living on campus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:23]: I really appreciate that new framing of contemporary student. I'm also wondering how you connect that term to the students that you're serving because it might be new for them as well. Joisanne Rodgers [00:09:32]: It's absolutely new for them. It's also new for our faculty and staff as well. Mhmm. And so we've spent some time like I said, the contemporary student services or CSS was established before lockdown. And then lockdown happened, and there was a lot of turnover and a lot of changes, of course, as everybody's experienced. So in this post lockdown era, 3 of my 4 staff members, myself included, were new into CSS. And so that really gave us a chance to kind of reestablish ourselves and reach out and connect with the faculty and staff as well as the students across the institution to reintroduce, reconnect, and reestablish contemporary, what that is, what that looks like, and how the great thing is also that all of my staff members hold some contemporary identity. I was an adult learner. Joisanne Rodgers [00:10:26]: 1 of my coordinators is a transfer student. Another one is student parent. So we all hold those identities. So when we say peer, we mean it though we may not be in classes right now, it honestly wasn't that long ago that we were in that very same spot. And so having those conversations and having that lived experience really makes the biggest difference when we're connecting with students, but also when we're representing our students and advocating for our students. So, I'd like to say our work is about ACEs, a c e s. We advocate, celebrate, educate, and serve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: Okay. And we have to make sure that we're separating that ACES from adverse childhood experiences. Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:04]: Yes, for sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:05]: That's really helpful to kind of wrap our minds around this different conceptualization. You also said that George Mason is on the forefront of this new transition of how we're thinking about serving these very unique but growing populations at our university. Mhmm. How are you working with others in the field to kind of stabilize some of this and normalize it? Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:25]: Yeah. So we're doing a lot internally and then regionally and then nationally. Right? So we've partnered for some of our subpopulations. We've partnered with folks like Generation Hope and participated in a Family U cohort. We, in this last year, earned the Family U seal, which is really exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. We're super excited about that to kind of amplify and celebrate our work with student parents and caregiver caregivers. Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:54]: And but we're also working with our 1st generation center because the when you add 1st gen over over contemporary populations, that Venn diagram doesn't really get all that much bigger. It still stays real tight. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:05]: Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:12:06]: So we partner with our friends in 1st gen center, which are part of the 1st gen efforts through NASPA. And so having NASPA support in that is beautiful and really helpful. And we also are working with everyone from, for example, our Marcom, our marketing communications folks at the institution and in our university life space to make sure that there's visual representation of all of our students too. And so we wanna make sure that we're seeing that our students are seeing themselves in all of the collateral that happens in the marketing that happens across the institution and across the region because there are buses driving all over DC with Mason on them, and we want them to see themselves in that in that place and space too. And now we're looking at I'm here at NASPA. We're, taking that in. We're also Generation Hope is hosting their very first HOPE conference this year in New Orleans. So I'm going straight from NASPA to that conference Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:03]: To present, but also to take in what other folks are doing. And we're part of an Aspen network for Ascend. So we're really trying to connect in to work smarter, not harder, as I mentioned. So for us, we have, as I mentioned before, 4 full time professional staff members. We have a graduate student and student staff as well as an office manager. And sometimes I'm talking to folks and they say, oh my gosh. You only have 4 staff members to do that. And I talk to other folks, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:32]: You have 4 staff members. I'd love to have that. So we're in a great spot, kind of. And so looking at that too and making sure that as we're looking at emerging populations and looking at our work, that we're staying in a place where we can really help and advocate across the institution that we are not the only ones doing this work. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:55]: I think that's the important part of it too is as we're gathering ideas from NASPA sessions, as we're gathering ideas from Hope Conference sessions, some of my staff went to FYE this year. And gathering that information, it's about how do we partner, what are great ways that we can advocate, consult, do these things so that, ideally, all of our faculty and staff across Mason see this contemporary student work as their work too. Joisanne Rodgers [00:14:25]: And a lot of times, it's just having the conversation about the language or having a little bit of conversation about calling them in to that work and making just little tweaks and changes because most of the time they're doing it. They just don't know that they're doing it. Or we're saying, that's really great. What if you could? And kind of leveling it up. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: There's a book for 1st gen student success that NASPA, I believe, is a co publisher on, or maybe the publisher on. I I don't know exactly, but there's a list in it about, like, the 15 or 25 things that you can do to support first gen students. And the messaging I always come back to with that is if it's good for 1st gen students, it's good for all students because it's really about teaching people how to navigate the system of higher education, creating new to the system don't have, the social capital to understand, and and I really hear the echoes of serving those first gen students with your contemporary students. And it just it's so great to see that you're creating synergy with your 1st gen success center as well. Joisanne Rodgers [00:15:28]: Absolutely. And you're 12,000 percent correct in that, like, that hidden curriculum, the paper ceilings that a lot of our adult learners and and folks are hitting, and that's what's bringing them back into our into higher ed. But also understanding this strange lexicon that they've either never encountered or it's been a really long time, or maybe they encountered it with their children when they were sending their kids to college, but they've never had to apply that to themselves. And so it works a little differently. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, those overlaps are spot on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:01]: I wanna talk a little bit about that dance theory component because with your origins being in the arts and dance theory, a lot of people that have never studied the arts in a formal context probably are saying I didn't know that there was theory to apply to to arts in that way. And we have those theories in music education and dance education. It's about how we teach learning. It's about how we absorb and create and a number of other things. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about 1 or 2 of the dance theories that you rely on and how you're transitioning those from context of the ballroom to context of contemporary Joisanne Rodgers [00:16:34]: students. Sure. So I have this kind of, like, running list of yes. There's, like, the formal theories and learning and and things like that, but I also kind of have this running list of things that always came from the director of the dance program, my undergrad, who doctor Jan Hyatt, love her, had these phrases that she always used that really stuck. And so a couple of those I think I have a list of, like, 10 or 15 in my notebook that have come with me all of these years later. And so the one that I use most frequently is you have to put the support in place before you need it. So whether you're executing a dance move, whether you're like, you don't just start playing for music, like, you just don't start playing. You ready yourself, instrument up, fingering, all of those things. Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:20]: Right? And so even when you're taking a step forward, your body is you do it unconsciously, more likely than not, but your body is putting these supports in place so that when you step forward, you don't fall flat on your face. Mhmm. So it's the same thing. We're talking about emerging populations. There were changes in Pell Grant rules and regs that open possibilities for previously incarcerated folks. That means that's that's opening up this emerging population. We've been looking at that population for the last year and a half or so, doing some research, doing some interviews, and putting together toolkits so that we can put the support in place before we need it. Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:57]: So, yes, some of those students already exist in our population, but we know that the possibility of more is coming. So we're putting that support in place before we need it. Just like if we were stepping forward, we don't wanna fall on our faces. Not that it's gonna work perfectly. Right? Practice and test and learns, that's how we come at it, but applying that. The other thing that I will say from her, mainly because this links directly into the podcast, is life is in the transitions. And so the importance of a move to the space in between the two moves is just as important as hitting your point or hitting the move or those kinds of things. And so that transition space and time is when things happen. Joisanne Rodgers [00:18:37]: Like, that's where the good stuff happens. And so that is always part of what I remind myself of as things are happening, and I translate that into the work and kind of the business y thing of, like, testing test and learns. Right? It's always a process and it's an iterative process. Speaking of more theory, formal theory, is one of my favorite quotes from Margaret Dobler is, where the sum total are experiences Mhmm. And that's the only way we can show up, and that's the only way that we can react, which to me says meet the students where they are. Like, those things are very, if not exactly the same, very, very similar, which is a tenet of student affairs. Right? How many times do you hear folks say meet the students where they are? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:19]: Mhmm. That tenet has been one of the major constants through NASPA's existence, I think. You know, the organization itself is, I think, a 100 ish years old, and the the core of NASPA's philosophies have been fairly constant over time. I had the pleasure of interviewing some folks, it was maybe 3 years ago at this point, who were the administrators at Kent State University during the Kent State situation, situation. And they read me the NASPA manual from that year, and it was all still relevant. So it's really interesting to see how the way that we approach the work has changed a lot over time and we've become more justice focused, we've become more inclusive, we've become broader in who we serve, but we are still keeping that core of we're trying to help college students and young adults kind of realize their full selves in that out of classroom space, continue to show up as our best. Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:08]: Yeah. Keeping that good stuff as the core. Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: I'm wondering if you could tell us how folks might be able to read more about these new evolutions in serving contemporary students. Because we're not seeing that research necessarily show up as boldly in some of the major journals, but there's so much work that is, I think, the future of what's happening in American higher education, specifically. Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:28]: Yeah. I think when we're looking at research, we get really specific. So for me, when I was doing, for example, my dissertation research and doing my lit review, it was a lot of looking at the specific subpopulations. Student parent, parenting student, all the variations of that. And so looking at that broader space, you know, I think about all of the advice that I got as I was constructing my research questions and things like that. And without fail, the first I would like to say 2 to 3, but it was probably more like 6 to 8 times. It was like, no. You gotta get narrower. Joisanne Rodgers [00:21:12]: It's like you're you're gonna you're never gonna get this done if you don't get specific. And so I think that's what's hard is that post traditional is so big and broad, contemporary is so big and broad, and so we talk a lot and there's a lot of research about those subpopulations, but looking at that in the broader sense is a little harder. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: You just said what every doctoral student has heard, too much pain. Right? Like, please please narrow your focus. I'm working with a person right now who is trying to narrow their focus from studying a population that is millions of people and going, oh, I just wanna study the population. Okay. But what about that population? And it's just so important for doctoral students to remember this is the first time you'll do independent research, not the last time. Yes. That's a hard lesson to learn, I think. Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:00]: Yeah. It absolutely I did a lit review on contemporary students, what would I be doing, and how would I look at these subpopulations, and how would I bring this together? And then thinking about those big, over arching Mhmm. Needs that are identified in that in that literature. So coordination of service being one of those, access and not necessarily access to education, which might be where your brain goes immediately when I say access, but it's really access to information. Mhmm. It's that social capital piece. Exactly. And so having those and having a not just a group of peers, but a group of peers that reflect their identities Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:46]: And whatever is most salient in the moment. So we know that for adult learners in particular, and this is true across all contemporary populations, but if they have a peer group that is just traditional students, it's not great. It can be detrimental. Mhmm. So helping them find their community and find their village, I've been at Mason I don't know. It feels like maybe 12 minutes. Really, it was probably a couple months. And one of our student parents who is working with us with Generation Hope was our student parent fellow. Valeria said at a convening, said everybody says it takes a village. Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:26]: But not everybody has one. Mhmm. And that just I was like, yeah. Exactly. That, like, just hit me, and it was this beautiful encapsulation Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:38]: Of everything that we were talking about, of students coming in and not having what they need, but that we could help and we could connect them, and we could be a village. We could be part of that support network and system. And not being a student parent, but being an auntie of, like, in with my best friend who was a student parent. She was getting her MBA, and my goddaughter was really, really tiny. And I was doing my doctorate, and so we were trading off for doing homework and hanging out with the kiddo and all of those things. And so I get that village. I'm like, I am a villager. We can be villagers. Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:15]: Let's do it. But that's not just true for our student parents and caregivers. It's true for many of our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:22]: You just gave one great example of what that can look like in practice. I'm wondering if you have any other practice elements that you think is important for our listenerships. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:29]: I think the big things for us that we've gotten really big positive feedback on are several things. 2 that I'll pull out is 1, we have community spaces that we plan out early so that we can let our students get those on their calendars and make notes so that they can make the time. We'll also do multimodal, so sometimes they'll be in person, sometimes they'll be online, so they can connect with each other. And it's really it's truly just a space of, like, we're providing the space, but our students our student workers, we've created, student ambassador positions that work differently than your traditional student worker position where you're asking for 15 or 20 hours a week. Those aren't working for all of our contemporary students, particularly for our adult learners, our student parents, and military veteran connected folks. Many of them are already living in time poverty, so asking for 15 to 20 hours a week, not gonna happen. Mhmm. So we created these ambassador positions that are right now, I think we have them set to, like, 50, 55 hours over the entirety of the semester. Joisanne Rodgers [00:25:37]: Okay. And we have a stipend that's attached to that because their lived experience is important, and if we're doing things for them, we wanna do that with them. And so those students are supporting those spaces and coming up with ideas of activities or topics and connections. So that's one thing that has been really great, and it's really helped our students build their own villages and build their their success network across the Mason community too because we also invite our colleagues into that space and into our lounge that we have on campus. I think the other thing is that, like every other population, we have us the contemporary student appreciation week. But we do that in April, and at the end of the week, we have a graduation celebration for our contemporary students. So we have contemporary student courts that they can come and pick up and wear at commencement. But at the graduation celebration, if they haven't already grabbed those, we have those available for them. Joisanne Rodgers [00:26:35]: But we encourage them to bring their village. We don't limit the number of folks that they can bring. We want them to bring their kids. We have kids' activities at the at the event. We want them to bring their parents. We want them to bring whoever is supporting them and has been a champion for them, including Mason faculty and staff. So So when they RSVP for that event, we ask them, who's been a champion for you? Who really made a difference? Is there a professor, a staff member, a community member that really just lifted you up or amplified or advocated for you or just was there and supportive and would listen? And when they identify the folks, we send them an invite. You know, like, come celebrate with us. Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:16]: And so we have this really great mix of students and their families and faculty and staff, and our VP comes and talks, and our AVP, and it's just this really beautiful event. We give them a whole bunch of, like, different areas. They can take pictures, and it's just a really beautiful event that kind of setting yourself up for success when you do a graduation celebration. That part I won't lie about. I know. Like, we're already starting at a 7 out of 10. But those connections are also really great in that space of having gratitude at the end of this journey that was not easy. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:50]: There isn't anybody in that room being like, this was a breeze. Glad to see I'm out. No. Everybody in that room is, this was a hard one situation. Mhmm. And I had to make some hard decisions. I had to make some really difficult priority management decisions, And I just have some really interesting conversations with my partner, with my kids about, it's homework time. You do your homework. Joisanne Rodgers [00:28:15]: I'm doing my homework. This is what we've gotta do. But at the end, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't worth it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:21]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:27]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a number of professional development opportunities that are coming up in the future that some of you may have an interest in. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up December 10th through December 13th, and the call for programs ends on May 9, 2024. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women with from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. This is a joint venture between NASPA and ACUI and a great opportunity for anyone looking to hone their leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment while also developing a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture and being able to connect with others to share experiences about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality that surrounds us. Early registration goes through October 21st, but the big deadline right now, as I mentioned at the beginning, is the call for programs, which does end on May 9, 2024. Some of the leadership cycle topics that are encouraged include topics surrounding supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskillreskill, the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: I highly encourage you to consider putting in a program proposal and if not, consider attending this amazing professional development opportunity. You can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute is coming up June 23rd through 26th in Portland, Oregon. This institute is hosted on a biannual basis by NASPA Small College and Universities Division. The Institute is a 4 day residential program, during which vice presidents for student affairs and the equivalent and other senior level leaders engage in discussion and reflection about critical issues in student affairs and examine effective and innovative programs. There's still time to register under the early registration deadline, which is April 30, 2024. This Institute offers amazing opportunities for individuals working at small colleges and universities to be able to build lasting friendships and connections that will help them to be able to lead their own units at their own institutions in new ways. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:04]: If you've never attended this professional development in the past, I highly encourage you to attend this year. You definitely don't want to miss this opportunity to be able to connect, be rejuvenated and to prepare yourself to lead your organization to the next level. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on your campus. The Leadership Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics, such as modern leadership theories and models, including new research, applications and critical perspectives, innovative and inclusive curriculum, pedagogy, and strategies for leadership studies courses, assessment and evaluation of leadership programs, student development and learning outcomes, future directions in leadership education and development based on widely used studies and standards such as the multi institutional study of leadership, CAS, and ILA guiding questions, unique co curricular program models and high impact practices, including those with cohort and multi year engagement, distance and online learning, service learning, mentoring, and global experiences. Strategy and management of leadership program operations, including staff training, funding, and partnerships, as well as interdissectional and interdisciplinary approaches to leadership education. If you are someone that is leading leadership training and leadership development of students on your own campus or wish to be a part of that in the future, this professional development is a must go to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:06]: Registration is now open. Pre early registration ends on June teenth with early registration ending on September 9th. Find out more on the NASPA website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. We really appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Joisanne, we have reached our lightning round. Oh. I've got 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Oh my. Alright. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:56]: I'm ready. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:00]: your entrance music be? Ain't No Man, The Avett Brothers. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:03]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:06]: I wanted to be a teacher because student affairs professional, not on the kindergarten chart. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:12]: True story. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:17]: I had a list. I talked about Jan, which is important. I think in the place and space that I'm in right now, it's my current supervisor, Sally Laurenson, and she has been amazing. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Oh my gosh. Everything. Consume everything you can and run it through the lens of you and your life and your strengths and your institution. Number 5. Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:45]: The best TV show you binged during the pandemic. I feel like I should say The Chair, because it just is absolutely directly related, but really the guilty pleasure version of that is Love is Blind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:00]: Oh, that one's easy. Malcolm Gladwell revisionist history. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:04]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:08]: Oh, my gosh. Everybody. I stand on the shoulders of giants is really what that is. So I have this really amazing family that despite not having a lens necessarily for what I do is still a 1000% in. And when I say things like, I'm sorry. I can't come home for Thanksgiving if you want me home at Christmas. They were not thrilled about it, but they made it work and were lovely the whole time, and I know that was difficult. And so I love them, but, also, I've had the privilege of working with some really great folks and having people like Ted Smith, who was my first RD, who told me this could be a job, and support from folks at Allegheny, as well as then moving into my first professional position at Western Kentucky University and having this group of folks who were in it and wanted everyone to succeed in just this really great village of folks that supported me in that and helped me learn how to be a professional in that place and space. Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:10]: And my first supervisor, Nick Wired, and Brian Powell, and Ben Ellis just absolutely giving me space and grace to fail fast and forward, and supporting me in that, and having a leadership team, particularly in in HRL, but also in my internships and things like that. So my Western Kentucky family, my Hilltopper family being great support in that as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:38]: Joisanne, I know I learned a lot from you today, and I'm sure there are others who have. If they'd like to reach out to you, how can they find you? Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:44]: Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. Look at the ad for my name. It's spelled a little differently than you might think, but I'm pretty easy to find. So connect with me on LinkedIn, send me a note, add a note to that that you heard me here and ask some questions. I'm always happy to answer those or jump on a Zoom with someone and chat about what's going on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: Thank you so much, Joisanne, for sharing your voice with us today. Joisanne Rodgers [00:38:06]: Absolutely. Thank you for having Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:10]: me. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:44]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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BONUS: Finding Success in the Face of Uncertainty: Insights from Student Affairs Professionals 41:50

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41:50

Embracing the Unknown The field of student affairs is constantly evolving, and professionals in this domain must be equipped with strategies to navigate uncertainty effectively. Success in this arena comes from a blend of versatility, patience, and transparency. Versatility and Adaptation Aquaneta Pinkert from Alabama State University highlights the importance of being well-versed in various areas, allowing for a smooth pivot when needed. Embracing a versatile approach prevents stagnation and ensures relevance in meeting student needs. This pivot-and-adapt strategy is crucial in staying dynamic within the field. Patience and Trust Taylor Cain of the University of Georgia emphasizes practicing patience amidst uncertainty. By trusting the process and focusing on controllable elements, student affairs professionals can maintain composure and lead with confidence, even when future outcomes are unclear. Transparency in Leadership Dr. Adrienne White from George Mason University shares her experience during COVID, when uncertainty reached a peak. By committing to monthly one-on-ones with her team and maintaining transparency, she fostered a supportive environment that not only alleviated concerns but also reinforced trust and collective problem-solving. Moving Forward with Resilience As student affairs professionals, embracing uncertainty isn't just about survival—it's about thriving and finding opportunities for growth. The strategies shared by these professionals are only a few of about 50 that provided a glimpse into the diversity of approaches used across the field to overcome challenges and foster an environment that champions both student and professional development. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay Voices from the Field host. Welcome to this bonus episode of student affairs voices from the field. As we've returned home from the annual conference, Chris and I are thrilled to share with you your voices. We were able to connect with several dozen of you throughout the conference experience to get your thoughts on the 3 conference foci areas and learn from your experiences. Across the next 3 weeks, we're going to be dropping bonus episodes on Tuesdays to share with you your thoughts on these three areas. The first area was navigating the opportunities of uncertainty. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: And the question we asked you was, what strategies have you employed to embrace uncertainty during your career, and how have they positively impacted your professional journey? Please enjoy. And if you were featured, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us. Acquanetta Pinkard [00:01:08]: I'm Acquanetta Pinkard. I am from Montgomery, Alabama. I work for Alabama State University, and I am a trio professional for 23 years. Wow. That's a loaded quest 1 is pivoting. Pivoting, making sure that I am, well versed in a lot of different areas. So I am equipped to pivot and not get stuck in any particular area. So making sure that I'm just able to move with the times is so and that's been very impactful and not allowing me to get in a position where I'm I'm stuck doing the same thing over and over again, so that I can be impactful to my students still and revel it. Taylor Cain [00:01:45]: I'm Taylor Cain. I work at the University of Georgia and serve as the director of engagement, leadership, and service there. I think with uncertainty, I try to exude patience, which for those who know me would probably be surprised by that. I wish I was more patient. But with uncertainty, I try to stay calm, rely on what I know to be true, and then try to be patient and trust the process, as cliche as that is, to see how things work out. Certainly, try and figure out how I can control things within my sphere of influence. But understanding I'm a part of a larger organization and to move something like that forward or trying to figure out what's gonna come next, no one can predict the future. So do the best with what you have, but just try and stay patient. Adrienne White [00:02:25]: I'm Dr. Adrienne White. I'm the director of student success coaching at George Mason University, and I use sheher pronouns. I actually think COVID was the most uncertain I think we've all ever been about our careers and the future and where we were all going with our lives. And something that I use with my team, that's when I started doing monthly 1 on 1 with every single person on my team. Because it gave them an opportunity to talk to me 1 on 1, talk to me about their concerns that they're having, and then gives me an opportunity to be able to alleviate some of those concerns or collectively come up with solutions to some of their concerns. And I think being as transparent as possible with the information that I've been given has really positively impacted my professional journey because I think it's forced me to be a more transparent leader, and it's also really made me think about how are the to the world events of today affecting my team and how we're supporting our students, which is our primary job. So it's really helped me rethink how I'm supporting my team through uncertain times. Susan Hua [00:03:31]: Hi. My name is Susan Hua. I use she/her pronouns, and I'm the director of diversity, equity, inclusion at the Community College of Aurora, which is an MSI HSI just outside of Denver, Colorado. The strategies that I've used to employ that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is really making sure that I have a community of folks around me who are able to help me unpack and debrief what I'm going through. I found that having a network of friends and colleagues who have been really close in my journey has been really helpful in terms of understanding the challenges I'm going through and also offering strategies and offering support in times of uncertainty. Aileen Hentz [00:04:07]: My name is Aileen Hentz. I'm at the University of Maryland as the program director of academic and student services. I have embraced it fully. Many times, even now, I'm I'm 20 years into my career, I have stuck my foot in my mouth. So one thing that I have learned to do is try my hardest to think before speaking and to go with the flow and to be a little bit more thoughtful, and I think that might be some of the strategies. Stephen Rice [00:04:41]: Steven Rice, director of the Office of Community Expectations at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, California. Some strategies that I use to embrace uncertainty, 1, to recognize uncertainty does happen all the time. And so you can't really prepare for it, but you can also be ready for it. And so I do that is looking at the positivity of it, making sure that I create networks with different resources on campus, so when those uncertainties come, figure out strategic stakeholders that can utilize to create a plan to really understand how to approach this uncertainty. But also going back and looking at how we learn and grow as individuals and as professionals, and how we are able to impact our university community positively by utilizing these different uncertainties and making the learning outcomes from it. Amy Adam [00:05:22]: Hi. This is Amy Adam, and I am from the University of Missouri in Columbia. I have been a student services support manager for 20 years, serving graduate students. One of the big things about uncertainty in my career, I've seen a lot in the past 2 decades. We went through some budget cuts after a campus wide protest that affected our relationships with legislators. Those of us that served students on campus really held fast to our values and our goal to support students. So, really, we just did a lot of debriefing amongst staff as well as really making sure to reach out to our students to make sure that they knew that they were supported and can ask for anything, and we would either support them or get them to the right resource if they needed it. Stephanie Cochrane [00:06:17]: Hi. I'm Stephanie Cochrane. I'm the director of student services at Northeastern University in Toronto. I'm here for NASPA for just the Sunday pre conference around graduate students. I think the main strategy is a growth mindset. Really in Toronto and especially Northeastern, we're growing at a really rapid pace and so we're keeping up with that. We also have a lot of students who are coming to the country for the first time, so international students. And having that growth mindset means that we can create innovative programming, try to try things for the first time, experiment a lot with our programming, see what works, what doesn't work, and continuously change and adjust as we go. Amy Hecht [00:06:57]: Hi. My name is Amy Hecht. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Florida State University. I've been there 7 years now. The strategies I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career has really been leaning on mentors using my network, really having conversations about what is happening, whether it's at my institution or across the country. I've also employed a leadership coach that's been really helpful in processing what's happening at work or what's happening in life, and that's really helped me navigate different moments throughout my career. Shatera Davis [00:07:35]: Hi. My name is Shaterra Davis. I use she/her pronouns. I'm the director of student affairs at Northeastern in Seattle. Move with kindness and empathy has been one. I think it would be too simple to say treat people as how you want to be treated. I think it's more intentional than that, and so anytime I move careers, anytime that I support students, I always think about what would I have needed when I was a student, what did I get when I was a student, my why when I came into student affairs in higher education, and then giving myself grace and showing myself true kindness and empathy in those moments where it's tough is something that I just try to live by and move forward anytime, like, in my career and in my personal life. Andy Wiegert [00:08:17]: I'm Andy Wiegert, director of graduate student affairs, arts and sciences, Washington University in Saint Louis. Yeah, it's a good question. I think actually coming from a different industry before I came to higher ed, I've been in higher ed now for about 11 or 12 years. I was really used to a more hierarchical structure that had very clear trajectories, and I've really had to lean in to just living in the moment and sort of being present at what I'm doing now and just trusting that as I build a network that my own development will just happen in kind. Scott Peska [00:08:52]: Hi Scott Peska, Waubonsee Community College, Assistant Provost of Student Services. I think that the best part is trying to find ways to be resilient and one of the things that I learned early on was to always do things a little differently. So don't take the same route to work every day. Try to find new ways to just ensure that you're comfortable with change. And so we get into, like, a lot of ruts as human beings. And so we kinda get in the same patterns of behaviors. The more that we can kinda find ways to change it up so Tuesday, that's my secret. Tuesday is my day to do something different every week. It's a way to try to promote being flexible and that has helped me to process and be prepared for uncertainty when it comes up. Dilna Cama [00:09:31]: Dilna Cama. I am a director within student life at the Ohio State University, and I am part of the off campus and commuter knowledge community. So in terms of strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career, Definitely keeping eye on what the final end goal is. It can be very difficult if you use COVID as a perfect example. It can be easy to get lost in the day to day barriers and challenges, but really making sure to keep focused on that end goal and be laser focused on that has really been helpful in my professional journey. Sabina Kapoor [00:10:08]: My name is Sabina Kapoor, and I'm currently a a full time doctoral student with Capella University. I spent over 20 years in higher education as a staff within student affairs, student success, and academic affairs. So as I've progressed in my career, I've focused more on staff so that they can better serve students. I wanna go in deep with that, so that's why I'm pursuing the doctorate in IO Psychology because I wanna look at the relationship between the organization and the employee. There was a I guess you could you know, how we have midlife crisis. I had a kind of midlife crisis in my career, and so it was like I hit a ceiling and just really couldn't go further. So I had been wanting to pursue my PhD, and I knew that that would help me go further. So that's what I did. And so I've been on that journey now for a few years. It's been rough, but I just keep thinking of the end goal. And also, in this time, while I'm not working full time, but I'm still staying connected in higher ed in different ways. So I'm a member of NASPA, and so a member as a student, so I'm paying out of pocket and it's a little cheaper than being a full time staff. I'm also a member of Coupa, which is basically HR in in university and colleges, and, membership is cheap to free, I think. And so it's pretty I I think as a doctoral student, I have a membership for free. And so the thing is that I'm trying to keep connections and stay involved in organizations so that I know what, you know, basically what national trends are, what are best practices, especially since the pandemic. That really changed a lot of how we view things. Carlie Weaver [00:11:48]: Hello. I am Carlie Weaver with Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm a programs coordinator for the student activities in Union office. To have a very flexible mindset and being open to change and being able to be flexible when things change at the last minute. Roxanne Wright Watson [00:12:08]: Hi. My name is Roxanne Wright Watson. I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, and I'm happy to be here. So So I think most importantly for me, I am student centered. So in my career, I'm always wanting to do new things with my students in my in the classroom, faculty. So I wanna do new things in the classroom to help my students in more than just academically, but more so to help them in the world in their whole life in general. So I think that's an important thing, an important factor there for me. Carla Ortega Santori [00:12:48]: My name is Carla Ortega Santori. I work at Rice University. I am the strategic initiatives manager at the Door Institute For New Leaders at Rice University, and my job is really about helping students elevate their leadership capacity and to also elevate the capacity of all campuses to do really great leader developments in education. So I would say that most of my jobs have been really ambiguous, like, they start off as something, then they turn into this other great thing. I guess I've always been more comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty, so I guess knowing that it's not something permanent helps to sort of adapt and thinking of different avenues to accomplish one thing is also helpful when when you think about accomplishing a goal. Rachael Amaro [00:13:42]: I'm Rachel Amaro. I'm the admissions and academic advisor for the Department of Educational Leadership within the College of Education at Cal State Fullerton. I think that one of the main things has been reminding myself that I am one person and knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control. I think that's really hard in the profession in general. I think we all mostly are helpers, centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that I can be re centered and ready for what my students need. And so I think that it's really helped me have an understanding of what it is I want to give to what I do and what I wanna get from what I do. I think that, again, the big takeaway for most people these days is what do I value about my time that's mine? And I think that I try to sort of encourage new staff members that I work with in this because I think a lot of them come in, again, wanting to go go go, which is great, but I also have to remind them, like, hey, like, you know, you have vacation days for a reason if you need it. And I feel like that's just something that's been really helpful to me to feel a little more like I have some balance to myself, and then it lends it to the work that I do. Christine Wilson [00:16:23]: I'm Christine Wilson. I am in student affairs at UCLA. I have two roles. 1 is as the executive director for academic partnerships and the other is the program director for our masters in student affairs program. There's been a tremendous amount of uncertainty because of the pandemic, but I think everyone has uncertainty in their career because you don't know what's next or how that's gonna happen. And my strategy has been to embrace uncertainty because if you don't, you'll be unhappy and to take opportunities that come up in order to grow and learn more about how the university works, not just student affairs, but how everything works together. And through taking on things I've been asked to do, I've sometimes been incredibly busy, but it has helped me be much more effective because I have worked in so many different areas of student affairs just temporarily leading a unit or being involved in a task force. Olivia Ruggieri [00:17:21]: Hi there. My name is Olivia Ruggieri. I'm the associate director of administration operations for Northeastern University Seattle campus. I grew up in Pennsylvania, went to 2013, but I've been working for the university since 2018. I would say just tapping into the network of professionals around me, having other folks review my work, and if I'm nervous about something, making sure that I'm not the only person, like, putting that message out into the world. And a lot of that came into place in during COVID 19 where we to be really clear with our messaging. Of course, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we wanted to make sure that our students got the right information the first time. Because things were changing so rapidly, we couldn't risk, like, confusion in the day to Christle Foster [00:18:11]: day. Hi. My name is Christle Foster, and I'm from Chesapeake College located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in Wymeals. Working during the pandemic was definitely some uncertainty, especially when we had to switch from being face to face to online. And in my role as an executive director of Trio Programs, it was especially difficult to recruit students online because many of them became disengaged. So definitely, that helped me to learn how to be adaptive as well as how to be responsive to change because that was a lot of change very quickly. We got notice, like, a couple of days that we were shutting down and I had to switch gears and help my staff switch gears in that time of uncertainty. Nathalie Waite Brown [00:18:49]: My name is Nathalie Waite Brown. I am the assistant dean of students and director for graduate student life at Stevens Institute of Technology located in Hoboken, New Jersey. I think what I've used that it's been the most successful is pause and then practice. Being able to take a a moment just to stop and think about what isn't working and what I want to work, and then putting those things into practice, and that may mean reconnecting with my mentor. It may mean taking a class. It may be connecting with students, but really just taking a moment to pause and reflect to be able to move forward and put what I need into practice. Dae'lyn Do [00:19:27]: My name is Dae'lyn Do. I use sheher pronouns, and I am the associate director for the Women in Science and Engineering Residence program at the University of Michigan, and I am coming into the position of the WISA KC co chair. For me, personally, I feel like relying on my people to get me through kind of the when I have questions about things or come across challenges, I just reach out to my colleagues or my mentors and help process through things. I think all of us have to work together in this field to really rely on each other to try to get through those challenges together and utilize each other's experiences and knowledge and just keep sharing that with each other. Natalie DeRosa [00:20:09]: So my name is Natalie DeRosa, and I'm from Lehigh Carbon Community College in Schnecksville, Pennsylvania. So I'll start by saying that I'm a young professional. I think the key is to keep calm, and I'm still learning, and that's why I'm here. That's why I'm at NASPA, is to learn how to do that and do it gracefully. Dan Volchek [00:20:38]: Dan Volchek, assistant dean of student success at Harvard Griffin Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In embracing uncertainty, I've looked at what other schools do and read publications about that and that has helped me manage the uncertainty that I faced during my career of which have been a number of pieces. But the biggest thing I think the strategy I've used is networking with people, utilizing my connections in NASPA to help me get through the uncertainty that I faced in my career and my professional journey. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:12]: Vaughn Calhoun, Seton Hall University, hehim. Yeah. I think for me, really, it's just pausing and making sure that you can understand the the context of of what's happened to the best of your abilities and knowing that things can change, and they probably will change, but also knowing that you can only control the controllable. And for me, it's attitude and effort. And it's one thing I always share with my staff is we can control what we can control. Those things we can't control, we shouldn't spend too much time thinking about it and just do what we can. Darlene Robinson [00:21:43]: My name is Darlene Robinson. I'm the RISE gen 1 director for Seton Hall University. Some of the strategies that I've employed to embrace uncertainty during my career is more so looking inward, sitting with certain questions, ideas, and things that I, as a person, would like to have in a career, and just figuring out how that how what I have and what I need can impact those around me and best service students or coworkers that I come in contact with, and asking questions of those people as well to know what it is that they need and how I can provide it. Miguel Angel Hernandez [00:22:21]: Hello. My name is Miguel Angel Hernandez. I am the associate vice president and dean of students at San Francisco State University. I think one of the things that I do related to strategies is really ground myself and center myself in the idea and concept that a greater power is at work, that nothing whatever situation comes. I think the second piece that's important about that that brings me a lot of confidence is that I don't have to navigate uncertainty alone. Here at NASPA is a reminder that we are a part of an amazing professional association. Through relationship and thinking with partners and coming up with strategies or responses to the critical issues that are facing our profession today, I do believe that we are able to emerge better than we were yesterday. And so when I think about uncertainty, what brings me comfort is that I am only a text message, phone call, social media post away from an amazing network of thought partners, and that has guided me and continues to guide me. I think in terms of how this has positively impacted my professional journey is that it allows me not to feel like I have to know everything or be over prepared or have every aspect of a job description or an invitation under my belt because again, we are not in this alone. Together, we thrive. David Chao [00:23:47]: Hello. My name is David Chow. My pronouns are hehim. I serve as the director of IT for student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, and I'm also the chair of the technology knowledge community. I think I spent a lot of time trying to plan ahead and anticipate. I think planning, while you can't plan for everything, it can certainly help and to help minimize variability whenever possible. It's just helped to mitigate that. But it's not always easy. And, unfortunately, as we just came off the pandemic, there are times when we just don't have a plan and we have to go with it, but I think planning in general still builds up a habit that is helpful even in times of uncertainty. Melinda Stoops [00:24:20]: Hi. I am Melinda Stoops. I serve as the associate vice president for student health and wellness at Boston College. In looking at my career in student affairs, which has been over 20 years at this point, there have certainly been many points of uncertainty. And even though I've employed different strategies at different points in times and in different situations, I really think the one constant point for me has really been connecting with others and opening up, even if just to one person, about something I'm dealing with where I feel uncertain. There's nothing better than having someone listen to you and support you, and I so much value my network both within student affairs and outside of student affairs. And I feel like regardless of the situation, that's always been something really helpful for me is to feel like someone's there supporting me even if they don't have the answers per se, but that I just have someone who is in my corner and cheering me on. And sometimes they provide great guidance as well. Derek Grubb [00:25:20]: Derek Grubb, Dean of Enrollment Management for Red Rocks Community College in Colorado. Biggest strategy I really just employ is strength in the knowledge of others. I've always believed building a team that has unique strengths, can lean on each other, and so you're able to be more agile and reflecting and promoting those strengths in each person. Matt Imboden [00:25:41]: My name is Matt Imboden. I use the hehim pronouns. I serve as the chief student services officer in the School of Business at Wake Forest University in North Carolina. And, for the past few years, I've also been chairing the administrators and graduate and professional student services knowledge community for NASPA. So I think I've found that during times of uncertainty, it's taken me a few knee scrapes along the way. But I think I've learned that at that time is kinda when your motivating values are kinda the clearest, and they sort of help to clarify things for you, renew your focus. And so during times of uncertainty or stress or strain, as I kinda come back to the things that one, got me engaged in the work I do in the 1st place. I mean, that, like, truly motivate you without kinda being distracted by all the tasks and initiatives and ideas that tend to pile up, but kind of focus on our students, what excites us about working for and with them, but then also increasingly to try to be a good leader for other staff and faculty colleagues to make a difference at our institutions. Evette Castillo Clark [00:26:39]: Evette Castillo Clark, vice president for student life and dean of students at Lewis and Clark College, Portland, Oregon. I employ a strategy of being an iterative thinker. So sometimes what that means is working with your team, working with your staff to pilot things or think through things and outcomes or problems to a solution, throw it on the wall, see if it works, and it's okay if there's mistakes or if it's okay if it didn't work. You regroup, and you think through and toy through the uncertainty and the problem again. So I think one of the soft skills that it is really becoming the skills is really being flexible with your thinking, being understanding that sometimes that first go around, it's not gonna work, but you retool and you regroup and you go at it again, and you might actually have to convene different stakeholders to actually help you with the problem to address the uncertainty again. Madeline Frisk [00:27:33]: Hello. My name is Madeline Frisk. I work at Portland State University. I'm the coordinator of student government relations and advisor to Greek life. So I work with our student government, all of the committees and groups within that, as well as 4 strong and mighty small Greek life groups as well. I would say being a retired navy brat, navigating uncertainty was kinda a part of the career, we'll say. Navigating, moving every 3 years, I got pretty used to adapting, being the new kid, and I think that served me well now in the student affairs profession with all the ups and downs we can navigate with our career. Gene Zdziarski [00:28:08]: This is Gene Zdziarski. I'm vice president for student affairs at DePaul University. I think the biggest thing when there's times of uncertainty and questioning is you try to do your homework, you try to learn more about the situation, and I think what I found to be most helpful is utilizing my professional network, reaching out to my colleagues in the profession, getting their perspective, hearing what they've thought. This is clearly one of the places that, at least for me, NASPA has served as my professional home, and the people that I interact are really that support network that I use throughout my career to help guide me and make decisions not only about what's happening on my campus and how to better serve students, but also, how I might look at next steps or where my professional journey is going to go. Lyza Liriano [00:28:54]: Hello. My name is Lyza Liriano. I currently serve as an area coordinator at DePaul University in Housing and Residence Life. Originally, I am from Brooklyn, New York. I think that as there has been a lot of uncertainty within higher ed, especially post pandemic, I remember being a grad student not knowing if the program would continue in terms of my grad assistantship in housing and being very nervous about, is this the career that I wanna go to, even though it was something that I really love. I think what I started doing then and what I continue to do now is really just tapping in on my network, and really just having those people that I can go to to provide me with hope. So a lot of my old directors, old supervisors, and assistant directors have been really just a sounding board for me, providing words of encouragement and really just also finding people outside of higher education that I can just lean on when I need someone to talk work with that don't necessarily know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about work. Jackie Cetera [00:29:54]: Jackie Cetera. I use sheher pronouns, and I serve as the director of residential education at Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. I would say that mentoring has been really impactful for me. Having different mentors throughout my career to help me through whatever my day to day or just life throws my way has really helped me. For individuals to provide the time and the space to talk through situations has really had a positive impact on me and has gotten me heavily Lisa Landreman [00:30:36]: My name is Lisa Landreman. I'm the vice president for student affairs at Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. So I would say how I've prepared myself and established for uncertainty, maintaining flexibility and humility, I think I would start with and making sure that I'm able to be calm, cool, collected, that I am taking care of my own well-being. It starts there. And so having good balance, having good support, having my network in place for when things get hard. So when I'm can be centered and prepared, I'm better able to handle the uncertainty and the anxiousness and the crisis that comes. I think it has helped me be a stronger leader when I can model calmness and that I am not rattled with the ebb and flow of whether it's the world or our campus or student issues. I think being well read and well versed in issues in the field, so professional conferences, professional connections, institutes, networks has really helped me stay grounded in new ideas, creative solutions, best practice, collaboration. Lisa Landreman [00:31:42]: And so I feel like I have kept my toolkit and my skills honed. You know, that isn't just I get my master's degree and get my PhD and I'm done. That it is I am constantly looking for where do I need to learn more and who could I learn it from or where could I learn that. So I feel like even if I don't know something in the moment, I know who I could connect with, where to go, who might have it, what resource do I need to brush up on. I think both those personal qualities of being okay with me and then being well versed, but then also knowing that it's okay that we don't know in the instant how to respond, that to take a moment to find the answer, to listen to solutions. Also, I would say hiring a really strong team around me and then modeling for them to be that we are a learning organization, so so that we're gonna learn together, that we create opportunities in our weekly meetings or in our retreats and things, that we are I am modeling that kind of learning. We read articles together. We present to one another that we share learnings on a regular basis. And so that has served me to both cultivate stronger professionals in my organization, also motivation and enthusiasm about learning new things, and also just it has allowed us to be a team in these uncertain times. Right? That we can work together, that we might make some mistakes along the way, but we can quickly recover because we're a learning organization. Jackie Yun [00:33:03]: Hi. I'm Jackie Yun. I take the she series, and I serve as the executive director of the Harvard Griffin GSAS Student Center. I think that sometimes with uncertainty comes opportunity, and so some of the pivots in my career have actually turned out to be excellent silver linings and opportunities to specialize or to pivot, go to a different type of institution, work with different type of student, and so I've tried to see those as opportunities to learn. I think creating a learning mindset and just seeing everything as an opportunity to expand what we know keeps it interesting too. Leanna Fenneberg [00:33:37]: Hello. This is Leanna Feneberg. I'm the incoming chief student affairs officer at Duquesne University. I have had the experience of positions being eliminated and having to start a national job search and relocate with my family. And while those have been troubling times, I see them as wonderful opportunities to reflect on who I am and what I value and what I want in my next position and have always appreciated when one door closes, another one opens and seeing the opportunities that lie ahead. Jake Murphy [00:34:10]: Jake Murphy, I'm the director of prospective students services at OSU Institute of Technology, and I am over all recruitment and retention efforts at the university. So probably the biggest thing that I have put in place has been growth mindset. That's been a big one to be able to make sure that I am doing the best that I can and make sure that my team is in top form but also making sure that they look towards their professional goals because it is for recruitment, it's a stepping stone for a lot of people. Larry Pakowski [00:34:39]: Larry Pakolski. I'm the vice president for student engagement, inclusion, and success at Aims Community College in Greeley, Colorado. I think the biggest thing is looking at kind of what students need and and their voice in the equation, and then letting that be the north star, like students first always. And then we get into the budget and what's possible and how soon can we do that by really kind of keeping that north star of students first. Jillaine Zenkelberger [00:35:02]: Hi. I'm Dr. Jillaine Zenkelberger. I am the program coordinator over at Graduate Student Life at the University of Notre Dame. My professional career has been, even though somewhat short still has been kinda all over the place. I started as a social worker in foster care and now I'm here in grad services and I think uncertainty is just for me I utilize my uncertainty in my career path. I try to frame it as a benefit because I have a really diverse background with social work in my background, psychology, and really utilizing these skills to serve the community that I'm in now which is grad students. Also, my own journey as a grad student has really affected the way I work and how I interact with my students. Kristen Merchant [00:35:48]: Hi, everyone. I'm Kristen Merchant. I am from Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. I am the associate director of the Union and Student Activities Office there and also the director of our lead programs. Some strategies that I have employed to embrace uncertainty is I always like to come to everything with a plan. I always say plan for anything that could possibly happen, but then also being flexible enough to pivot for my Friends fans and be able to kind of adjust to the various situations. Joe Lizza [00:36:18]: My name is Dr. Joe Lizza. I'm the director of the Chamberlain Student Center and Campus Activities at Rowan University in New Jersey. I think early on, I tried to kinda shape some of the work that I do in really in my interests. So I really find stuff that I have true interest and then try to kinda shape that position or shape that professional development opportunity to kinda really be 100% fully engaged. And I've also always been open to opportunity even when it maybe there was uncertainty. So in the idea of not knowing what possibly I might do or my next step, I always kind of rose to the idea that, hey, let me try this new opportunity out. What's the worst that could happen? And it's ultimately kinda worked out for me. Joshua Allred [00:37:03]: My name is Joshua Allred. I work at Louisiana State University in the College of Agriculture as their manager of student services. I think when I think about uncertainty, I try to find in any job that I apply for or when I choose to stay where I'm at. Most recently, it's all been about the people that I work with. And so if I have strong leadership and I feel really comfortable with that leadership, that uncertainty feels a little bit more easy to navigate because I feel a lot of strength in that leadership. Kelley O'Neal [00:37:30]: Hello. Kelley O'Neal. I am at Texas A&M University, and I am the executive director of the Marylin Kent Burns Student Success Center. So one of the things I continue to do is try to be innovative and think what's next? What more can I do to support students and support student success? I don't wanna come in and do the same programs over and over again. I want to do my best to collaborate, whether it's with my partners in academic affairs or my partners in student affairs. But whenever uncertainty comes, then that says, how do I make sure that students are successful? Because in uncertainty, they wanna make sure that what you're doing is supporting student success. So that's what I do. Kelley O'Neal [00:38:19]: I would say recently, the strategies that I've employed is really falling to networking and mentorship. In early career, I don't think I valued those two pieces as much as I do in my later stages of my career, and finding mentors that can help me shape my career trajectory for the last part of my career, and taking advantage of things like the Institute For Aspiring VP's here at NASPA, as well as other maybe smaller regional conferences and conferences within the graduate school community to help create that next plan for my career, but definitely mentoring and networking. Katie Caponera [00:39:03]: I'm Katie Caponera, director of student life at Harvard Divinity School. I think the biggest approach to approaching uncertainty has just been to remain open to new ideas and new possibilities and never get too attached or set into what's traditional or what's always this is how we've always done it. That can be a challenge at a place that is as old and has as much history as Harvard and one of its affiliates, But being one of the smaller schools at Harvard, we've we have the ability to try some new approaches and some new directions with a little bit more fluidity given that we're kind of in the corner and small, but just not not being precious about how things have been done in the past, but really engaging, you know, what ideas the students are bringing to us because they're the best indicators of what they need on campus. Kathy Dilks [00:39:58]: My name is Kathy Dilks, and I am the director of graduate student and post doctoral affairs at the Icahn School of Medicine, the Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. I think the strategy that I always employ is staying connected with my colleagues and being open and honest with my peers. I rely on the people around me to help me navigate certain waters and certain uncertainties, and I rely on other people to help me gain valuable insight. Julie Payne Kirchmeier [00:40:30]: Julie Payne Kirchmeier, vice president for student success for the University of Indiana University. It's not really a system. It's a multi campus university, but we can say Indiana University System if that's easier for folks to kind of place the role. When I think about strategies employed to embrace uncertainty, you know, this may sound a little bit trite, maybe not. I just constantly important because, you know, there are elements of ethics and integrity that are woven into the how, but there are multiple ways to get there. And so when it feels uncertain or it feels strange, if I can go back to what it is at my core or as an organization, the mission or the purpose, I think it really helps to ground you and then you can move forward through that uncertainty. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:17]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:58]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.…

SA Voices From the Field

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acum 48 weeks33:02