Transforming Student Affairs Education: Insights from Dr. Amy E. French

SA Voices From the Field

Reflecting on Historical Context and Embracing Future Innovations

In the latest episode of SA Voices from the Field, Dr. Jill Creighton hosts Dr. Amy E. French, Associate Professor at Bowling Green State University (BGSU), for a riveting discussion on the evolving landscape of student affairs. In this episode, Dr. French shares her professional journey, touches on the historical significance of student affairs, and details future innovations in integrative learning and social justice within the field.

The Journey from Alumni Relations to Academia

Dr. Amy E. French's path to academia is rich with diverse experiences and significant milestones, starting with her involvement in student government and advocacy at Kentucky Wesleyan College. This early exposure to leadership and activism paved the way for her continued studies in social justice at Loyola University Chicago. Transitioning from working in alumni relations and advancement, Dr. French was inspired by mentors like Dr. Candice Hinton to pursue a PhD in Higher Education Leadership, ultimately leading to her role as a faculty member at BGSU.

Throughout the episode, Dr. French emphasizes the importance of listening to students, colleagues, and the community to drive program development. Her dedication to addressing student needs and fostering an inclusive environment is evident in her leadership of the College Student Personnel (CSP) program at BGSU.

Program Legacy and Historical Significance

The CSP program at BGSU holds a legacy built upon addressing student affairs' demands during tumultuous times, with the work of Gerald Saddlemyer as a cornerstone. Dr. French recounts the program's historical roots, including the commemoration of the Kent State shootings via sister statues. These events highlight the profound impact student affairs professionals have had in guiding students through periods of crisis.

Dr. French shares how the program's history continues to shape its present and future objectives. Celebrating its 60th anniversary, the BGSU CSP program plans to honor its legacy with an 18-month-long series of festivities, reflecting on the program's significant contributions to student development and higher education.

Adapting to Post-COVID Realities

The global pandemic undeniably altered the fabric of higher education, prompting a shift in student priorities and expectations, especially in residential life and Greek organizations. Dr. French discusses how these changes have influenced BGSU's program, pushing a curriculum revision focused on holistic professional development and training for students.

Innovative curriculum updates are slated for the upcoming fall, aiming to keep pace with evolving student needs. This includes the integration of AI technology using 360-degree cameras for experiential learning, further emphasizing student development theories and practical applications in a rapidly changing world.

Embracing Social Justice and Identity Development

A pivotal aspect of the CSP program under Dr. French’s leadership is a robust focus on social justice and identity development. Recognizing the importance of these elements, she advocates for a curriculum that starts with current student understandings of power, privilege, and oppression. This approach equips students with the skills needed to challenge oppressive structures and promotes an inclusive and equitable campus environment.

The Role of Graduate Assistantships

Graduate assistantships play a vital role in student development at BGSU, offering hands-on experience and professional growth opportunities. Dr. French highlights the support from administration in funding these positions, contributing to high student satisfaction and the overall success of the program.

Additionally, she emphasizes that reflective practice is integral to BGSU’s approach, with dedicated classes each semester that adapt to student needs and fill curricular gaps. An elective on campus politics will soon be introduced, helping students navigate advocacy and internal bureaucracy more effectively.

Enhancing Student Affairs Through Communication and Collaboration

Effective communication between graduate prep programs and practitioners is crucial for preparing future student affairs professionals. Dr. Jill Creighton and Dr. Amy French discuss this dynamic, with Dr. French shedding light on forums like the NASPA Faculty Institute and collaborations among Ohio program coordinators. These platforms focus on curriculum development, funding, marketability, and employability, essential factors in enhancing the relevance and effectiveness of student affairs education.

Looking to the Future: Storytelling and Advocacy

Dr. French underscores the significance of storytelling in student affairs, using personal anecdotes and historical context to illustrate the field’s human aspect. By maintaining personal archives like thank you notes and embracing the passions of incoming students, professionals can stay motivated and inspired.

She also stresses the need for student affairs to challenge outdated practices and remain open to new approaches. This openness to evolution ensures that programs stay relevant and impactful amidst changing dynamics within higher education.

In closing, the podcast episode with Dr. Amy E. French is a testament to the transformative power of student affairs. By honoring its history, adapting to contemporary challenges, and embracing innovative approaches, the field can continue to support and empower students through their academic and personal journeys.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:00]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. Brought to you by NASPA, we curate free and accessible professional development for higher ed pros wherever you happen to be. This is season 11, the past, present, and future of student affairs, and I'm Dr. Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on essay voices, we welcome Dr. Amy e French, sheher. Dr. French is an associate professor in the school of counseling, higher education, leadership, and foundations at Bowling Green State University, where she also serves as coordinator of the college student personnel graduate program. She holds a bachelor's in political science from Kentucky Wesleyan College, a master's degree in social justice from Loyola University Chicago, and a Dr.ate in higher education leadership from Indiana State University. Dr. French's current research foundation includes cultural consciousness on college campuses, campus reimagination, and community connection within student affairs. Her favorite scholarly activity is the opportunity to teach brilliant scholars who strive to make a positive impact on students during their collegiate years and beyond.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: When Dr. French is not on campus, she's often spotted walking and hiking with her dog, boss Chewy McScruff, in the parks across the country. Amy, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:21]: Good morning.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:22]: Glad to be crossing time zones again. We were talking to you today from Ohio. You are currently an associate professor at Bowling Green, but the thing we're most excited to talk to you about today is the past, present, and future of graduate prep programs for student affairs professionals. You're still in, what's being termed the college student personnel program, which is a name I know that BG has held for a very long time. We'll get into all of that. But before we talk about your expertise in this area, we always love to start our episodes by getting to know our guests by asking, how did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:01:54]: Oh my goodness. How did I get to my current seat? Well, I was very involved as an undergrad student at Kentucky Wesleyan College, a very small private school in Kentucky in Western Kentucky. And I was hyper involved in student government and student activities and pretty active as well as, I led several campus protests and did a lot of advocacy work. And from there, I actually went and got my master's at Loyola in social justice, not in student affairs. I sort of know about student affairs at the time. So I did some great work at Loyola and actually found myself working in alumni and advancement, a couple of small private schools after I graduated. And then that's kind of what led me into pursuing my higher ed PhD. And, actually, that was when one of my faculty members at the time, Dr. Candice Hinton, said, you know what? I think you should think about this faculty gig.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:02:51]: I think this really would suit you and your personality, and I just think it'd be great. And so I kinda laughed at her at first, and then she was like, no. But I'm not kidding. And then so she planted the seed, and it took all of about 2 weeks for me to call her back and say, hey. You know what? About that thing, how do I do that? And so began my kind of pursuit into the faculty side of the house. So I went from alumni and advancement, working full time during my PhD program, and then eventually, actually became a graduate assistant for a couple years. And then a lecturer at Indiana State University, and then actually went up as an assistant professor and became an associate professor at Indiana State. And then Bowling Green, you know, gave me a shot, and here we are.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:35]: And you're going back through the P and T process now. Yes?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:38]: Yes. Yes. All my documents are submitted. Everything is looking good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:42]: Congratulations preemptively. I'm sure it's gonna be smooth sailing.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:03:46]: Stay tuned for a hopeful party in April in Bowling Green. There'll be a party.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:50]: Well, you're currently directing the CSP program, as I mentioned, or college student personnel program, which is the higher ed master's prep program at BG, which has long held a reputation for being an incredibly well rounded, robust, well well reputationaled program in the field. So tell us about what drew you to be leading this work.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:11]: Yeah. So I'll be honest. I was so excited after applying to the Bowling Green State position. I was like, oh, I don't know. You know, this is a big deal. And I'll be honest. When I went for the interview, everything kind of fell into place. It was what I was looking for professionally as a challenge.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:04:27]: It was scholarly, invigorating, and I really liked the people and the students, of course. I mean, best of the best. And so that kinda drew me into Bowling Green. And then once I got here, of course, learning more about the history, I knew about its long standing traditions. But to really get some one on one time to interact with Dr. Carney Strange at the Black Swamp Festival, to, you know, sit and talk with Dr. Mike Coombs. And, again, for them to just pour in that programmatic history as a maritime faculty was really great. And then getting to work with Dr. Ellen Broido, we have a lot of fun. And so this is my 3rd year, and I've really been intentional about listening to the students, listening to the community, listening to the faculty, and working collaboratively to try to make some decisions to lead us lead us into the next 60 years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:19]: So we just celebrated our 60th anniversary as a program. Technically, it doesn't end until December, but it depends on who's asking and who's looking at the history books. But so I signed it for last year, but we're gonna celebrate for 18 months because why not? Who doesn't love a party?

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:35]: So looking at the kind of longevity of the program as well as your role in carrying the program from the present into the future, what are some of the historical markers of, college student personnel program or higher ed masters that had been really important for higher ed students of the past?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:05:54]: Oh, yeah. Of the past. Well, goodness. So Gerald Saddlemyer, which which we have several lectures here at Bowling Green State, but also I believe some NASPA and ACPA awards named after Dr. Saddlemyer. He really paved the way for the program here at Bowling Green State, and I think that was at a time when campuses were quite tumultuous, when there wasn't crisis management training, when our student affairs professionals were really in the line of literal fire. In some instances, I'm thinking specifically about, you know, Kent State and learning what we've learned now from Dr. Erica Eckert's work and learning from those student affairs professionals at the time and what they were going through and what they were wrestling with, I think speaks a lot to why student affairs became a professional endeavor. And so looking at how do we train folks to really support undergraduate students as they're transitioning, as campuses become more chaotic in some ways, but I think also just more demanding in general. And so I think that's really where it started was we recognized a long time ago that there's more to college than what happens in the classroom, and it really is about those developmental components.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:07:03]: It's about being a good citizen. It's about learning to manage conflict. It's about all of those things about being a person in our democracy. And so I think that's really what started BG's program, was that initial realization that, hey, we need folks who understand college students. And it was also at a time when we were learning more about college students. Right? Student development theory was just starting to emerge as a field of study. And so I think those things combined really formulated this pretty awesome lightning in a bottle moment for the Midwest, really.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:39]: I'm going to give a shout out to Dr. Erica Eckert, as you mentioned. If you're a long time listener of the show, we did an episode with her a couple of years ago now. And if you're new to the show, I would highly encourage you to go back and listen. It's one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded. We did a 2 part where Dr. Eckert and I talked about the history of the Kent State shootings that happened in the sixties. And then the second part of the episode is we had the 4 administrators who were responsible for responding to that incident on the show. And it was wonderful to hear their perspectives on what emergency management and crisis management sounded like at the time. If you can imagine doing this in an era before cell phones.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:15]: I believe one of them said that they had to run into a restaurant on the main street and find a phone, and they were literally printing flyers for students with information and all these other things. So I appreciate that that's part of the grounding of the BG program as well as looking at what those problems were in that era.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:31]: Yeah. And we actually both programs came on board around the same time, and there's actually 2 statues, sister statues on our campuses honoring those who passed away from the Kent State shootings.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:42]: Now you've taken this program with a tremendous amount of history. You entered going, I'm going to listen a lot and try to figure out what to do with it. What was the state and priorities of the program when you inherited leadership?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:08:54]: Yeah. I think coming out of COVID, our field looks different. Our students are I wouldn't say totally different. I think our students are amazing rock star students, but their priorities are different as well after the pandemic as are the expectations placed upon our site supervisors. And so everything kind of shifted. Priorities with funding, priorities with what is expected of grad students in the work. And I'm thinking specifically about residential life, fraternity and sorority life, some of those really face to face student positions. And so we had some real conversations about, okay, what does it look like to be within this field with a new so our student affairs units had been restructured several times in the last few years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:09:38]: And so working with those campus partners to look at what supporting our graduate students would be like, because I wanted to make sure that it's not just a student worker position. I really wanted to make sure that they're getting that training and the supervision to help them develop as full professionals. So that was a priority. The curriculum was a big priority as well. And so I've spent the last two and a half years really interrogating the curriculum, talking to faculty to understand some of the history of some of those components. And we're in the process of some, I think, pretty innovative and cool curriculum revisions that will hopefully take place next fall, if all things go through the proper channels on time. But I think we've got some pretty innovative things about to happen within our curriculum that kind of in some ways, it's definitely not changing all that much because there's still the focus on the history. There's still the focus on student development theory and some of the practical elements.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:39]: But in some ways, we're kind of we're polishing it up, and we're we're adding some different Legos to the to the scaffolding. So I'm I'm pretty excited. So those were the top pieces.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: Are you able to share what any of those shiny new Legos are?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:10:51]: I can't say too much yet, but what I will say is we're gonna, in in some ways, double down on student development theory because one of the critiques and or challenges that our students have when they're in a 2 year master's program is really applying the theory, and so I will share that there's going to be a class that really looks at that directly. It's kind of beyond student development theory, and it's beyond student development theory 2.0 into more of an applied integration of theory. And even talking to professionals to interrogate, how do they do that? What are the ways? Because I think a lot of times we're doing that. We're just not using the words, the specific theory names, or the specific aspects, but it's definitely theory informed practice. And so I think this program being rooted in the historical underpinnings that it has, I think it's really important that we double down on our story. And so that's one aspect. Another component is going to be intentionally engaging with artificial intelligence. And I'm really pumped about that.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:11:57]: And I'm still doing some training with some new software folks. But one of the aspects that I will give you a little teaser is we've got some 360 degree cameras, and our students are gonna be going places throughout the country looking at college spaces in some new ways. So I'm really pumped about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:15]: I love the aspect of tech integration into the modern curriculum of student affairs. It's definitely where we're going, and we've had a couple of episodes this season that talk about AI. I wanna loop back to the conversation on theory though, especially as someone who's innovating the curriculum. We've always had this tension in the field about the social justice aspects of the historical underpinnings of who our theories were created by and for. How are you addressing that tension with the modern day aspect of going, we still need to apply the basics of understanding how students are developing throughout their 4 years.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:12:48]: Yeah. So I think that's a fantastic question. And it's gonna sound cheesy, but I think the example that I'm gonna use is gonna fall on the green book. Right? So so the latest edition

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:59]: The famous green book.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:13:00]: The current edition starts with identity development and goes backwards as opposed to starting with the foundations and moving forward. And so I think that's a really important aspect. Our students, what I'm finding when I teach student development theory to today's student, they already understand identity development to certain extents. They already understand certain aspects of power, privilege, and oppression, but it's the integration of how does all of this make sense? What does this do? How do I listen and learn from others to engage with the students that I'm interfacing with to support them in their development. And so I think in a lot of ways, the social justice aspects and the diversity and the equity components are going to be infused throughout. But instead of it being like a day that we talk about sexual identity development, it's going to be more integrated throughout. It's gonna be those woven threads. I think the challenge is our books don't do that because they kind of can't.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:00]: In order to talk about the theories and explain the nuances, you do have to have a chapter on racial identity development. Certainly. And then what do we do next? And so the way that we're framing it is almost backwards. So we're starting where we are now and going from, like, kind of that archaeological component as Dr. Ali Watts would say, like using that layering backwards component. So I'm excited about it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:23]: BG has also had historical underpinnings as a program, if I recall correctly, that really emphasizes or even has maybe required graduate students to also have an assistantship placement throughout the program, which there has been conversations in the field for a while about the value of that or whether or not that's necessary to prepare functional practitioners. So I'm wondering if you can talk about how that is currently nestled in the structure, as well as how the program views the value of that practical experience in that 2 year program.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:14:53]: Absolutely. So we think we at Bowling Green think that is a critical component to the developmental aspects. I think there's something really powerful that happens when a student comes in and begins learning the academic material and they're being exposed to new professional spaces, right, and new student groups. And so while that 1st semester might be a blur for students, to be fair, right, because it's all new and they're they're soaking it all in and they're like, wait, how do I grad student? Because that's a verb now. But truly, they're getting all of that comprehensive material and that information in a way that really sets them apart. And so we at Bowling Green still have full paying tuition, graduate assistantships. They also pay a stipend. Some live on campus within our housing communities.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:15:42]: Some don't have housing. Well, many campuses are losing that funding, and we have the support of our administration to continue with those and and even increase them. There's a really tough tension, I think, between the financial components though as graduate student stipends increase and then the the pay of an emerging professional still being lower than it should be. So there's some really tough balances, but our institution has committed to supporting those assistantships because they are an integral part of even our undergraduate student experience. BG has been ranked number 1 as the I think it's the top student satisfaction campus in the Midwest, and that to me directly correlates with our priority on student affairs and higher education. Right? It's our graduate students who are interacting with undergraduate students, supporting them, offering challenges, listening to their ideas, pushing them, and that together, along with amazing professionals, comes together to make that satisfaction rate so high. It's one of the best campuses for a reason, and I think part of it is our focus on student affairs.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:56]: One of the, I think, mysteries in our profession is whether or not slash how do graduate prep programs communicate with each other about what's important for students to be learning, as well as how is that communication happening with the practitioners in the field? We're gonna be hiring students coming out of these programs. Can you elucidate at all what that communication looks like? Where where are these conversations happening? How is this curricular idea set being kind of amalgamated together with the brightest scholar minds in our field?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:17:24]: Sure. So I think the NASPA Faculty Institute is always one of the places that I start when I begin to think about curriculum and even some specific course ideation. Last year at NASPA, I had a phenomenal conversation with Dr. Candice Moore at Maryland College Park, and we sat and talked about the history of our programs. We talked about the importance of theory. We sat at a round table with some other program coordinators and kinda just spitballed ideas and shared our challenges and our frustrations, but not in a way to, like, oh, what was us? Right? But, like, really to try to generate what do we do? How do we respond? How do we continue pivoting to support our students so that they understand and recognize the relevance in addition to those who are hiring our professionals to understand and recognize. So interestingly, just this week, Dr. Erica Eckert and I got a group of program coordinators together from the state of Ohio, and we had 7 institutions represented on the call. And we talked about curriculum, and we talked about funding, and we talked about marketability and employability. And one of our action items is to get on the call with the vice presidents of student affairs in the region because we can't have the conversation by ourselves.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:18:39]: It is a partnership, and it's an ongoing discussion. And I think the other thing that I'll say is we had a new professionals in transition conference for our students last Friday, and so that's where our students are working with our alumni base to talk about their emergence into the field, preparation with interview practice, mock interviews, and also just like a general conference type sessions as well as some mentoring and networking sessions. So great student run, student led event. It started about 25 years ago. It's taken a lot of different twists and turns, but one of the things that I did when I came on board is I said, I'm gonna find the brightest and best alumni to come to campus, not just for I mean, we we do some Zooming things as well because I think you have to anymore, but I wanted to bring them to campus and have them interact with our students. And so this year, we brought in Dr. Ashley Brown, who is assistant dean of students at Emory University. She's one of our rock star alumni. BG has lots of them.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:19:38]: Right? I think just about any campus you go on, you're gonna find some BG alums. But Dr. Brown has been tasked with basically redesigning her student affairs division and hiring the staff. And one thing that she shared was the importance of hiring folks with master's degrees in student affairs because they understand. They have the identity development lens. They have the power, privilege, and oppression perspectives. They understand the layers of the institutional bureaucracy in ways that other disciplines, while the professionals might be great coming from other disciplines, there's a real cost to getting those professionals up to speed and running forward. And so that was really encouraging for me to hear that as she continues pivoting and bringing up her division, and that's something that I'm hearing from other vice presidents as well, is that importance of the perspective and the depth of what they come with. And so I I really hope the field can compensate them accordingly, because I think that is one of the biggest challenges we're facing as a profession right now as well.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:42]: Definitely. Equitable pay, and then we've got federal overtime laws and we could be facing a lot of different federal changes coming in the next 4 years. Lots of unknowns with that for sure. I'm also wondering how your program and maybe programs in general are are developing courses or curricula that help address some of the skill gaps that I know as practitioners we talk a lot about. So for example, you know, when I was sitting in dean of student seats, one thing I would always notice is that we don't teach supervision well as a profession at all. It's a skill set that is typically learned as you go, and we don't teach the theory behind supervision or any of the different cultural aspects, things like that. So that'd be one skill gap. And we just had Mike Segawa, a distinguished pillar of the profession on the show a couple weeks ago, and he was talking about a need for grad prep programs to do better about teaching advocacy skills in terms of telling our story as a profession, those types of things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: So can you talk a little bit about how those might be rising?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:21:34]: Yeah. So I think you just hit my hot button issue, Jill. But telling your story, oh my gosh. It is absolutely essential. If we don't tell our story and demonstrate our relevance of how our campuses are able to exist because of student affairs labor, we are failing. And I know that sounds dramatic, but I actually genuinely believe that. If administrators don't understand the actual numerical value of what we're doing, it becomes increasingly difficult to justify pay equity, pay raises, increased positions. It is a real challenge.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:22:12]: So one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is where does this fall within a curriculum? As states, it was just in Inside Higher Edda about a month ago, how state governments are deciding curriculum for programs. They're really getting involved in some states with what's being offered and what we can do and what we can't do. That has not been the case in Ohio yet, although I'm a little concerned. But anyway, that has not been the case yet. What that does is that takes away our autonomy to really train and prepare folks. And so with kind of that restrained squeezing and that added pressure, I'm acutely aware, and I think about helping skills. Right? Coming from a some sort of a counseling pastoral background myself, a lot of the training that I had was in helping skills, not specifically counseling, but that's a layer as well. And so how do we tell that story to our administrators to justify what we're doing and also to protect ourselves from burnout? I think understanding, as you pointed out, the academic discipline aspects of supervision and the counseling components for helping skills, conflict resolution, not just learning how to do the thing, but the behind the scenes of how to do the thing, I actually think, takes some of the burden off our shoulders when we're doing the good work.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:23:29]: And I tell my students that all the time and they chuckle. But I'm serious. Right? Like, unless we understand that these issues are much larger than this moment that I'm in today with my supervisor or my supervisees, it feels so much more onerous and so much more taxing. And so one thing that we do at BGSU is we have what's called 6890, but all of the alums on the call will know what I'm talking about. And it's a reflective practice class, and it meets every single semester of the program. And within that class, we had the luxury to kind of respond to what we think that group of students needs or what we feel like within our curriculum might be lacking. We're also, this coming semester, gonna have an I'm like, this will be fun to see what happens, but it's a class that's gonna be offered. It's an elective on campus politics.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:24:18]: And how do we navigate all of the things? Right? So, like, advocacy, how do we navigate just even internal bureaucratic components? How do I know to ask certain questions and when to ask certain questions of maybe my supervisor or my supervisees? How to know even when to read between the lines sometimes? I don't know that there's a way we can teach that per se, but I think talking about it, bringing it to the table and bringing in professionals who are doing that every day, I think, is just helpful perspective to have. And when students do practicums, I always tell them, I'm like, ask the tough questions. Ask the questions that you know that you will feel uncomfortable when you're employed by those folks to ask because you're a student. So the power of a student is to gain all the perspective. So ask those questions. And if the supervisor comes back and says, ouch. That's a tough question. Good lesson.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:11]: Right? Like, good thing to know to be mindful of those things when you move into the field. But there's so many layers, and I don't think we talk about that until students get into the profession, and then they're inundated with all of these different internal politics, external politics, all of those pieces. It's hard. And I always get phone calls about right now. It's usually mid November, early December from the group that just graduated because they've been in their new position for a minute, not a long time, but a minute. And there's usually something that comes up that feels funky, and they need to talk it out. And I wonder if our profession also might have a space for those new professionals as well. But it's like a clock that alarm goes off and I know, oh, yep.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:25:52]: And it's not everyone, but there's a handful of students. And I become very concerned when it happens so quickly that we're gonna lose those really top leaders because of some of those aspects.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: I'll be very curious to hear how this class ends up serving the student population. And I don't think you're gonna know until they come out the other side semester or a year after that first position rolls out, or maybe it's something they reflect on as they become more senior level practitioners. But I'm glad to hear that these conversations are happening in the curricular space.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:21]: Oh, yeah. Definitely.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:21]: Amy, I'm gonna move us into our theme questions for the season. Again, we're focused on the past, present, and future of student affairs. I've been loving this rich conversation with you around how that is presenting within graduate prep curricula, but we can talk about it both from that perspective and from the holistic nature of student affairs. So our question on the past is, what's one component of the history of the student affairs profession that you think we should continue to carry forward or alternatively let go of?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:26:48]: Oh, you know I love a good history question. So I'm gonna answer this in 2 different ways. I had the privilege to attend the National Endowment for the Humanities series this summer at George Mason University where we unpacked the history of higher education. And so I got to dive in in a lot of really cool ways to some archival documents. And so on the what we should hold on to piece, I would say archives. Understanding and knowing what is in our archives and and also question what's missing, I think is a really important component of our past and we don't wanna lose sight of that. And with everything going virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed virtual and electronic in the early 2000, that has really posed a real burden on our university libraries, on our archivists, for document management, as well as telling our story. And so to me, that's something that I've been all all fired up about, and I'm, like, ready to get a U Haul van and drive it across the country for my sabbatical, collecting all the things that everybody's got because I think it really is that important. And just a funny thing, I like to find the quirky stories because I think student affairs professionals are fun people, and I don't want us to lose sight of the fun in our job. Like, we like students, and we like to be around students, and we like to see them grow and develop. And so for my homework for this institute that I did, I looked at Melvin Hardy, who a few awards are named after actually within both NASPA and ACPA, I think. And so there's some letters that she wrote as an undergraduate student at Northern Iowa. The first one started talking about macaroni and cheese in the dining hall and how it was great. So she's not going hungry.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:28:28]: Don't worry, mom and dad. All is well. And and that was written in the early thirties, kind of coming out of the depression. And there was a lot of anxiety, and there was a lot of concern about just taking care of basic needs. And so throughout Melvene's letters that she wrote home, she was really homesick. But one of the comments that she made was, I have all of my basic needs cared for. I just don't have you talking about her parents. And I think that is so important for us to remember about why we do the work that we do and that her moving through those different stages and those processes, right, that we actually have record of, right, that she shared with the student affairs archives here at Bowling Green State to demonstrate the challenges and the struggles of a student.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:29:13]: And what's going on outside externally, right, was so much bigger. And she recognized the privilege that she had in being able to go and pursue a college degree. And it was still hard. It was still challenging to be a woman on a campus that was a normal school, right, that prioritize education, but still, it's hard. And then she went on to become a rock star pillar of our profession, and one of her students wrote of her, I think it was, the pillar of the profession honorary notes that were written. And it said, you know, no one better than Dr. Hardy with her go go boots and her smile. Right? And so I again, it's cheesy, but she wore go go boots, you know, small in stature, but big in personality. And I think we sometimes forget that that there are pillars of our profession all around us doing really important work, and I don't know that we amplify that enough.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:30:06]: I always tell my students that when students send you a thank you note, even if it's in an email, print it off and put it in a folder somewhere because that will bring you joy, and that joy will help sustain you. And if you don't need the joy that day, you're gonna need it another day, so put it in the bank. Right? Deposit it for later. And I just think my research on Dr. Hardy, there's been several articles written about her and and whatnot, but I had never read about the mac and cheese or the go go boots. And I think those are the pieces that I do think we should as cheesy as it sounds, hot mac and cheese, pun intended, as cheesy as it sounds, I don't want us to lose sight of that within our history. That all of these folks were people. They were students at one time who had their own challenges and celebrations and achievements, and they chose to do this work because it matters. And so as as administration and as governments, you know, make decisions about our profession, it really is up to us to identify the meaning behind what we do.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:06]: And yes, we need theory, and yes, we need empirical research to demonstrate the whys. But I think without the actual historical components that tell our stories of who we are and why we're doing the work, what's the point? And I don't want us to lose the point of that.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]: Moving to the present, what's happening in the field right now that's going well for student affairs?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:25]: Oh, man. We've got some of the best students coming into our programs. They are so fired up about supporting students. And I'll be honest, they understand in a very different way, I think, because of moving through COVID, all the different layers that are associated with student support that I can't even begin to think about. So, yes, there's research on social the impact of social media. Yes. There's research on artificial intelligence. But but our students today get it on a real level.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:31:54]: And to me, I think they're going to be pushing and challenging us to do better with some of those pieces and to to figure out some new ways to support those students because we know there's a lot of unknowns within that, but our students get it. My master students come up with some things sometimes that I'm like, I never even thought of that. And to me, that's exciting. And I know that may not be something new, but I guess that's why I do what I do. Right? I kind of like our students. They're kind of awesome. I would say that's something that's going really well is that they're really in touch and they care deeply about our undergrad students, and they've got some really cool ideas of ways to support them in ways that we've never done it before.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:33]: And looking towards the future, in an ideal world, what does the field need to be doing to thrive towards our future?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:32:38]: I think telling our story. I think we start there. And I think some practical aspects getting out of our own way sometimes. So some of the things that we've held on to for so long because that's the way you do it. That's like the one thing that sticks in my crawls so so bad is, well, it's always been done that way. And that is the wrong way to think about the future. I wasn't here when it was done that way 30 years ago. My students certainly weren't here.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:33:05]: So how is it relevant? How is what we're doing actually relevant? And I think while that might be hard to answer, we cannot continue reifying certain oppressive behaviors and structures just for the sake of it. And so that's something that I've really done at Bowling Green State is ask a lot of hard questions of my colleagues and hard questions of my dean and our provost to say, but why? And I actually see some positive movement on those. You know, when I when I really sit and I challenge those notions, they've been very responsive to that. But I think those grad programs that aren't able to ask and look in the mirror is a big deal, and I will add that I am prioritizing the residential on campus program. I think that is a really important part of our development that we can't get with an asynchronous approach.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:53]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:59]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a ton of things happening in NASPA. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is coming up February 18th to February 20th in Las Vegas, Nevada. The 2025 NASPA symposium on military connected students is the association's premier event designed for student affairs practitioners supporting military connected students. The symposium is your exclusive opportunity to share evidence based practices from your campus or organization. You can learn from leading researchers in the field and engage with other professionals committed to supporting military connected students. This is a 3 day symposium featuring keynotes, sessions, research policy, and best practice presentations, as well as workshop style sessions to help campus professionals develop or enhance their programming and services for military connected students. While you're at this conference, you'll have a great opportunity to be able to connect with other colleagues, participate in engaging sessions, and learn from dynamic plenary sessions.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:02]: Early registration deadline ends on December 16th with the regular registration deadline going from December 17th to January 15th. You can find out more on the NASPO website. TPE virtual placement is coming up March 3rd through 7th with registration opening up on December 20th. At the virtual placement event, TPE is committed to fostering meaningful interview connections and supporting growth within student affairs. Whether you are an employer seeking the right candidate or a job seeker eager to make a lasting impact or looking for a job, this event is designed to help you navigate the dynamic landscape of opportunities and possibilities. So who is this virtual placement for? Well, it's for graduate and undergraduate students who are seeking full time entry level employment after graduation, early career professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or opportunities for advancement into mid level roles, or mid level professionals who are looking for lateral opportunities or advancement into upper mid level positions or finally mid level professionals looking for leadership opportunities at the director or unit leader level positions. If you would fall into any of those categories, I highly encourage you to register for this dynamic event. Again, the event is March 3rd through 7th, and registration opens on December 20th.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:28]: You can find out more at the placement exchange dot org. Finally, today, I'll talk about the 2025 NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy. This is happening June 23rd to 27th in Clearwater Beach, Tampa, Florida. The NASPA certificate in student affairs, law and policy offers the only certificate in the important area of law and policy tailored specifically for student affairs educators. This is a 23 hour intensive residential certificate that provides an opportunity for in-depth study to enhance student affairs professionals knowledge and understanding of law and policy. This is the only program of its type and the only certificate specifically recommended for members of NASPA and other student affairs focused associations. As mentioned, the certificate will take place June 23rd through 27th, and it is an amazing educational opportunity with certificate topics in public law, private law, law and the legal system, and special issues in student affairs law and policy. You do have to apply to be a part of this professional development opportunity and the application must be submitted by March 1, 2025 to be considered.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:41]: If you are selected, you will receive more information on how to register for the 2025 NASPA certificate program in student affairs, law and policy. Highly encourage you to check this out for yourself. All you have to do is go to the NASPA website and go under events to find out more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:55]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:23]: Chris, thank you so much for always keeping us informed about what's going on in and around NASPA. You always come up with such great information for us. And, Amy, we are now back with our lightning round. So I have 7 questions for you to answer in about 90 seconds. Are you ready to roll?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:39]: I'm ready. Let's do it.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:41]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:46]: Oh my gosh. I have 90 seconds. I'm thinking something Disney. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:51]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:54]: A choo choo train.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:55]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:39:58]: Dr. Mary Howard Hamilton.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:59]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:02]: I like all of them. I don't know.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:03]: Number 5, the best TV show you've been binging lately.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:06]: What We Do in the Shadows.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:07]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:11]: Crime Junkie.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:12]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:16]: I don't know. I just wanna say hi to all my students at BGSU. My rock star colleagues, Dr. Ellen Broido and Dr. Ali Watts. Oh, and my dog, boss Treeway McScruff. He's my sidekick and coauthor to everything.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:27]: Amy, it's been so lovely to learn from you today. I know I've learned a lot. And if any of our listeners would like to have a connection with you after the show airs, how can they find you?

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:36]: You can send me an email at [e-mail].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:41]: Amy, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today.

Dr. Amy E. French [00:40:44]: Cool. Thank you so much, Jill.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is made possible because of you, the listeners. We continue to be grateful that you choose to spend your time with us. If you'd like to reach the show, you can email us at [e-mail] or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Creighton. We welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now. It truly does help other student affairs pros find the show and helps us to become more visible in the larger podcasting community.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:25]: This episode was produced and by Dr. Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.