Special Patreon Re-Release: Story of Healing from Sexual Betrayal in Marriage: An Interview with Bonny Burns

The Savvy Sauce

*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.

Story of Healing from Sexual Betrayal in Marriage: An Interview with Bonny Burns

Luke 8:17 (NIV) "For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open."

**Transcription Below**

Questions We Discuss:

1. Will you share your journey with us?
2. Will you teach us what we may not be aware of for people who struggle with pornography addiction?
3. What are lies or myths women are tempted to believe when they have been sexually betrayed?

Bonny Burns is an APSATS certified partner coach (Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists, apsats.org.) She has been writing and researching God’s design of sexual intimacy since 2012 on the blog OysterBed7.com and has been speaking about godly sexual intimacy on the popular podcast, forchristianwives.com. She can also be found at strongwives.com.

Strong Wives Website

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Book with Bonny as your Coach

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00]

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:18]

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. I'm grateful for today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Check them out online to place your order for dining or catering, or to fill out an application to join their friendly team. Visit cfeastpeoria.com.

Hey friends, I wanted to share some exciting news with you. Savvy Sauce Charities has officially received our confirmation from the IRS that all donations are tax-deductible. I know that we have super generous listeners, so we wanted to let you know you can now mail your check to Savvy Sauce Charities, P.O. Box 101, Roanoke, Illinois, 61561. Thanks in advance for supporting Savvy Sauce Charities. [00:01:24]

Now I'm pleased to share this episode with you that used to only be available to paying patrons. Bonny Burns is my returning guest, and she is a certified partner coach with the Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists.

She came into this field after experiencing her own betrayal trauma in her marriage. I appreciate her willingness to share how she's walking through this and the hope she's able to offer others because of Jesus.

Here's our chat.

Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Bonny.

Bonny Burns: Well, thank you for having me again. I'm really honored.

Laura Dugger: Very much enjoyed chatting with you the first time. Today it's going to be a little bit more personal. Will you share your journey with us?

Bonny Burns: Sure. I'm going to start from the very beginning, so just to lay the groundwork. I grew up in a Christian home, and all Christian homes have defaults. In my house, there was a lot of comparison of body types because my mom had her own body image issue. So therefore I saw people in public more for their body types and clothes than for their deeper stories. [00:02:35]

But this also meant that there was an underlying philosophy of a little porn won't hurt, or boys will be boys. And so that's the background I came into marriage with. And newly married, porn was around a little bit, but because of my background, I didn't balk. I accepted it. And while I didn't seek it out, I understood how it did create sexual arousal.

So fast forward a bit. By the fourth year of our marriage, we had three kids because we had a set of twins, and the porn had disappeared. And I thought it was a non-issue when in actuality, it had just went underground.

So my first big discovery was about 15 years into our marriage in the early 2000s. I discovered a very troubling name of a business where money had been withdrawn from an ATM. At this point, the problematic sexual behavior had went past just pornography. [00:03:39]

My world blew up. I was a little more spiritually mature than when we were first married, and this certainly felt like our vows had been broken. I was in a tizzy. I mean, seriously, I did not know what to do. I was on an emotional roller coaster. I wasn't as angry as I was hurt that he had stepped out like this.

When I approached him, of course, and he is deep in his addiction, and there was a lot of denial. However, I bought into his blame that I was partly at fault for this because I had very little sexual interest, which if you've heard the other podcast, if you heard the other part of our conversation, this is about the time I started delving into finding my sexual interest. [00:04:41] So part of that motivation was from his blame.

However, I will say that as time went on, I found that sex was for me too and I rejected his blame of any kind. But in our story, this is where we were at, that I had accepted it. Actually, I had no idea what to do, honestly. Aside from try to fix my sex drive, I was devastated. And none of our friends had talked about anything like this. I didn't really trust our church leadership fully, so we didn't go there. But surely he wasn't an addict, because I was doing all this internet research. And granted, Google was very young at the time.

But there were no resources for me as the betrayed wife and very little resources for what I just thought was a porn struggle. Because he absolutely rejected that label. I thought, "He's not an addict, surely?"

Well, while this is not usually what you want to do when dealing with a person in an active addiction, I didn't know what else to do. [00:05:51] So we went to a marriage counselor. And oftentimes, with the person in active addiction, they will paint the marriage problems as the other person's fault. However, we found a good counselor and he saw through what was going on and he challenged my husband quite a bit, so much so that my husband refused to go back to counseling.

But what did save our marriage at this time was a marriage class we took through our church that taught the psychoeducation of relationships and of marriage. And it taught us tools and those tools stuck. Even in his addiction, he tried super hard to implement these tools so that we can have a better relationship. So we were no longer miserable at this time. And we had a fairly good relationship. I know that sounds crazy. Because fast-forward a few more years, he still got an addiction I didn't know about. A few more years later, I have another discovery. [00:06:56]

And this is after I'd started the blog. So by this time, I knew a little bit more about problematic sexual behavior. But again, not enough. But I was completely astonished. Because at this time, we are having consistent, frequent, mutual sexual intimacy. He can no longer blame me for this.

So I cajoled him to go to a counselor who said he was a sex addiction counselor. Now in looking back, I realized he really didn't have the right credentials for what my husband needed. But it is what it is. So he went about five times, said he was done, said he was cured.

And this time, where the first time I forgave him and tried to forget and actually gave him my trust back the first time, this time, I forgave him, I didn't quite forget. I gave him some trust, but he didn't have my full heart anymore. [00:07:59]

So after this blow-up, I decided to go back to school to earn a psychology degree with Christian counseling emphasis. So I have a bachelor's from Liberty. And this was more to help with Oysterbed7. I didn't realize that I personally was going to need this.

I started to campaign with APSATS, which is the Association of Partners of Sex Addiction Trauma Specialists. I campaigned with them to be able to train so that I could become a certified coach to walk with other wives who had men struggling with pornography or problematic behavior.

So as I sat down to work on my website, which is strongwives.com, I knew that I could not go into this ministry without a marriage that had 100% sexual integrity. My part of that in the past is that I got rid of all of my romance novels. [00:09:02] I committed to staying fully present in the bedroom with my husband. There were no shortcuts to orgasm through fantasy of any kind. I stayed fully present. That was my commitment to 100% sexual integrity. But I didn't know about his.

You know, I didn't fully trust him. I didn't fully give him my heart. So I sat down and prayed Luke 8:17 every time I worked on the website, which is, "For there is nothing secret that shall not be made known and nothing hidden that will not be disclosed."

Nine months after praying that prayer consistently, God revealed that my husband's sexual addiction hadn't been cured by those five visits to the therapist. In actuality, it had went underground and it had grown. And that is classic addiction is that it just grows and grows. [00:10:02]

So by now I know exactly what to do. I have boundaries. I put boundaries immediately into place, which are so important for the wife of a sexually addicted husband. Boundaries help them know how you will be treated. Boundaries keep you safe from the lack of sexual integrity in your marriage. My boundaries were that he would see a CSAT weekly until that CSAT released him. There was no walking away just because he felt he was cured. He would be 100% cooperative with that CSAT. Whatever that CSAT asked, he was to do cooperatively. These were my non-negotiables. If he did not agree to do this, I was going to physically separate and decide whether I would dissolve the marriage or not.

My other non-negotiable is that he attends two meetings a week for the rest of his life because addiction happens in isolation and recovery happens in community. [00:11:06] From there, we also had something called a full therapeutic disclosure, which is where I worked with my own abscess coach and he worked with his CSAT therapist to develop his timeline of behavior, which they can go back to their childhood. It explains all of their sexual behavior to the present. They take complete ownership of it. There is no blame, justification, or minimization.

And it's therapeutic because it's done with the support of these two professionals who've been trained to walk people through this. That was the beginning of our new marriage.

And while I said that after that marriage class, he had changed a lot, after his recovery, his sobriety, and recovery, he is almost a completely new man.

Now for me, my healing has included a tremendous amount of grief because at the last D-Day, I was angry. [00:12:10] You may remember at the first D-Day, I wasn't angry. I was hurt. This time, I had done everything a godly wife is required. And I don't say that haughtily. I say that with great humility. I'm not perfect. I came from a household that was flawed. I have flaws. But I had learned to be a woman of sexual integrity. I had been telling him the things I had been learning all these years, and they were falling on deaf ears. And that's what made me angry, is the injustice of not having a husband, fully faithful.

So my recovery has included a tremendous amount of grief, a really great APSATS coach, a community, and a retreat. And this retreat continues to heal me through the years. So I am in a very good place now. [00:13:10] Sure, I still have a few little triggers now and then. But I see the sex industry for what it is. I'm not personally affronted. I am livid for the women who are enslaved in it.

Laura Dugger: Wow. Bonny, thank you for sharing your journey. I'm sure some of the marriages and people listening are maybe in the same spot, and some have never experienced something like this but would love to learn more about your experience, too. Are there any things that you have to deal with that we may be unaware of?

Bonny Burns: Well, I will say it's been a journey. So when there was the first D-Day, I was all about control. We would not watch certain movies. If I caught him watching certain YouTube videos, I was livid. That tone of voice sounds condescending, and I don't mean it to be. I'm just saying that I was being a policeman, and that's not how a sex addict recovers. [00:14:27]

Here's the truth, though. Hypervigilance, which is what that control is, is really safety-seeking. So I was seeking to make myself safe by controlling what he saw when the true healing is, he completely respects me and doesn't push those boundaries.

So while I understand a new wife who's fresh trying to control, that's part of our betrayal trauma, it's, like I said, keeping ourselves safe, I have been on a journey of... scantily clad women, they trigger me, but I don't really worry about what he's doing, because that's between him and God. And if he starts down that slippery slope of falling back into his addiction, he knows what I'm going to do, because I'm still here after 36 years of marriage, but I won't be if he falls back into addiction, because I love him, but I love God and myself more. [00:15:35]

Laura Dugger: I appreciate how you have depended on God through all of this. Is there any unique or specific way that you've experienced God's grace through this journey?

Bonny Burns: God's grace was that He brought it to my attention. It was someone who wished to do me harm, how I came to know. But like Joseph said of his brothers, what you wished for harm, God did for good. Someone wished to harm me, and that's how I came to know about the full extent of what was going on. And that was God's mercy. And that was God being faithful to me and honoring that I couldn't go into this ministry without a marriage full of sexual integrity.

Now personally, what do I still struggle with? Like I said, I really don't struggle with scantily clad women or magazines. [00:16:37] Some billboards do. I just look away. I've asked him that if he knows of a sexual venue of any location we may be traveling to, that we do not travel down that road. I don't want to see that.

But true triggers where my body reacts viscerally really come from memories around the last D-Day. And I just navigate those triggers by understanding what they are, that he is a new man right now. He is working his recovery behaviors very hard. And yeah, I do some deep breathing. If it's been really bad, I'll just... I have a mindless game on my phone that helps to distract me for a while. So I'll play that if I'm very highly triggered.

I used to... early, early after the first D-Day, I vented. [00:17:38] And that's a very appropriate and acknowledged way of healing. So just like Jesus overthrew the tables, my venting was very intense. I was angry. I tried not to denigrate his personhood. I didn't call him names. I called his behavior names. Because I realized even in the worst of it, he is a child of God. He does have belief, even though he kept that part of his life compartmentalized off from his belief. So early on in my healing, there was a lot of anger, a lot of rage. Yeah.

Laura Dugger: Yeah. That's understandable, and a lot of righteous anger in that too. I want to go back to that verse that you shared. That's where the Lord had me in quiet time today. So I just want to read it because I still had it out. And it's Genesis 50:20 that says, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." [00:18:47]

Will you teach us what we may not be aware of for people who do struggle with pornography addiction in marriage?

Bonny Burns: Sure. At the first look at a pornography addiction, it looks like it's all about sex. It's not. Pornography or sex addiction, any kind of problematic sexual behavior is usually used as a coping mechanism. And that coping mechanism was developed when the person with the addiction was very young, typically. Addiction grows out of a place of deep wounding.

So there is an excellent resource by Jay Stringer, who is a Christian clinical psychologist, and the book is called Unwanted. And it's about how brokenness leads to addiction. He writes about a study he conducted with over 3,000 men, mostly men with sex addiction, and it shows that for the vast majority of them, their childhoods were marked by abuse or wounding. [00:20:01]

People with sexual addiction learned very early on that sexual arousal is a way to escape. So you know that verse in Song of Solomon where it says, "Do not awaken love before it's time." That's exactly what plays out with most men with sexual addiction. Their arousal was sparked too early.

For example, this is a conglomeration of stories I know. So a boy has a very angry father who neglects him. When he becomes drunk, yells and abuses him. But this little boy knows that in the woods, the neighborhood boys have built a treehouse with a lot of porn magazines in there. So as soon as he can escape from his alcoholic father, he goes out to the woods and he looks at these magazines.

And being six, he doesn't quite know about masturbation yet, but he feels some really good feelings looking at these pictures. [00:21:02] He doesn't understand why, he just knows he does. And it's an escape from what's going on at home.

Also, childhood sexual abuse plays a big role in the fertilizer for this addiction too. It's just a place of shame. And so addiction really is shame and humiliation, and it's a way to escape from that.

Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsors.

[00:21:31]

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Laura Dugger: We are so excited to celebrate with you that The Savvy Sauce Charities received our IRS confirmation that all donations are officially tax deductible. We hope that you're going to take action to partner with us. There are details laid out on our website which is thesavvysauce.com and they're going to walk you through the process to donate. And it's also going to share our tax ID number. The donation process is as easy as just filling out a check for Savvy Sauce Charities and mailing it to P.O. Box 101 Roanoke, Illinois 61561.

If we've contributed to your life in any way by resourcing you to grow closer in intimacy with God and others, would you now contribute to us financially? In this way we are so excited to partner together and hopefully meet each other's needs. Our team wants to continue producing these podcasts and we're expectant that if you're listening right now you value The Savvy Sauce Charities enough to make a donation.

We view this work as ministry so we happily spend thousands of dollars each year to record and produce these episodes and our ultimate prayer is that your experience with Savvy Sauce Charities will make an impact for eternity. [00:24:04]

So if that is true for you, if you've ever received a blessing in any way from this non-profit, would you prayerfully consider donating to Savvy Sauce Charities? Any amount is greatly appreciated. and in fact you've heard me say before if every listener gave only one dollar per month it would completely offset all our costs. And again we have all the details listed on our website thesavvysauce.com if you are interested in making a donation. We look forward to partnering with you.

[00:24:38]

Laura Dugger: For the wives then as well, if this is the situation where the husband's done the betrayal, what are some lies or myths that women are tempted to believe when they've been sexually betrayed?

Bonny Burns: Oh yes. Two most common lies are: I'm not enough. I'm not enough to keep him home. I'm not enough that he's roaming like this. The other one is I'm too much. I'm too big. I'm too much personality. He can't handle me and so he's got to sneak off and do this on his own because he just can't handle me. Both of those are lies. Both of those are not true.

The truth is you are perfect. You may have flaws, we all have flaws but there's no flaw big enough in you to create his sex addiction. You didn't create it. The other truth is you can't cure it. But what you can do is you can get firmly rooted in who you are so that you know that you are worthy of the respect of a man who is walking in sexual integrity. [00:25:46] Because from that worth you create boundaries. "I won't tolerate that in our marriage."

The other lie is that I will never get over this. And that's from the pain. It's a deep, dark, devastating pain. Your world shatters. But here's the truth. You can but it does take work.

Laura Dugger: I think that sometimes there's this misunderstanding that we need to be the Christian nice girl when really nice is not the biblical value. The fruit of the spirit is kindness. But I believe it's in kindness even to your husband that you set those boundaries. That may not have felt nice to him in the moment but it actually is a root of love I would say.

Bonny Burns: Oh, absolutely. I love that you brought that up. Yes, Jesus held His own boundaries. When He was overtaxed He went off by Himself to pray. [00:26:51] That was His boundary. He rode out into the middle of the lake to get away. Jesus had boundaries.

He also had boundaries with the Pharisees. He wouldn't let them talk to Him or treat Him certain ways until it was time for His sacrifice. Bible has a lot. Even physical boundaries. God expelled Adam and Eve from the garden. That was a physical boundary. "You're leaving. You're leaving. You're not safe to be here anymore."

So yeah, boundaries are all through the Bible. We have a really hard time because we're taught to be such good... The beauty is a quiet spirit, right? So it's hard for Christian women to understand that no, you can demand some things and you can put some things in place and how you will be treated.

Now, will the person with addiction love it? No. That's why you have to be... typically they don't. Some guys who realize "I need help" do respect your boundaries more easily. [00:27:58] But because of the pushback, that's why you have to be really grounded in who you are and how valuable you are to God. Because it's from that strength and your values that boundaries are created.

Assertiveness is not the same as aggressiveness. And that's what you're being. You can be kindly, forceful, and that's assertive. Then I will say from personal experience, so my journey, you're talking about being the nice girl. The first D-Day, I was a nice girl. What can I do to help you? How are we going to get through this? Oh, I... you know? But I couldn't do the work that he needed to do for him because the work he needed to do was deep. It was about his family of origin. I knew his family of origin and I knew he needed to do that work. Even the first D-Day, I knew his family of origin was messed up. But I didn't realize until the second D-Day that he needed to get well for himself, not for me, for himself, and for God. [00:29:02]

So third D-Day, I knew he was so lost in his addiction, he wasn't going to seek help for himself until I said, "I'm not going to be in a relationship with you while you're in this act of addiction." And that's to protect myself. But yes, you're right. It was also a kindness to him to help him grow healthy and whole. And I will tell you not too long ago, he looked at me and he said, "I don't think I've told you this specifically. I love being in recovery."

Laura Dugger: Wow.

Bonny Burns: And he has thanked me again and again for staying and he's thanked me again and again for setting my boundaries.

Laura Dugger: And I've heard you speak before about him just saying, he is a wonderful man. He treats me well in all of these other areas. Is that right?

Bonny Burns: Oh, true. Oh, yes. Now he's treating me even better in all those areas because there were things that you give grace for, right? Oh, he's had a tough day. So yeah, his tone of voice isn't so great. But that wasn't a consistent pattern. [00:30:09] I was giving him grace for those things.

Well, now that he's in recovery, those things don't happen. I think too, he knows I'm more likely to call him out on it now. There isn't quite as much grace for some of those things, but that may change as we're farther down the road. And it stems from that marriage class we took that he learned those tools.

Laura Dugger: And what was the name of that marriage class?

Bonny Burns: So this was back in the early 2000s and it was called Dynamic Marriage. Like I said, it changed our lives. However, I do want to put a disclaimer. This marriage class might not be for everyone. And this marriage class cannot cure sex addiction. That's not what this marriage class is about.

This marriage class is about building your life as a partnership, but it does not address sex addiction. So I just want to put that out there. [00:31:09] But we did learn some really amazing tools on how to navigate conflict, how important it is to give each other undivided time.

But here's what I think the marriage class... really for us, the most benefit we got was we hear about love languages and fulfilling needs and all that. And that's great. But if you're doing things to shoot a hole in your bucket, no matter how much love you're putting in it, it's going to drain out.

And that's another aspect of this marriage class is that it talked about things that kill romantic love too, which is annoying habits, disrespectful judgments, independent behavior and... I can't remember the last one. But that was pivotal because I think in our marriage, all of those were happening. So when we learned to reduce those things, it really helped improve our partnership.

Laura Dugger: And I think even a really practical thing that can shoot a hole in our marriage bucket is pornography. [00:32:13]

Bonny Burns: Yeah.

Laura Dugger: Why would you say that pornography is such a powerful trap?

Bonny Burns: Oh, well, in this world, there's a very well-known phrase. It's the three A's. It's accessible with the internet you can see billions of pictures. It's affordable, free. And it's anonymous. You can do it. You know, you can view it and no one will know on either end. So that's part of why it's such a big trap.

The other part is because neurochemically what goes on in the brain. So pornography works on the reward system in your brain, which makes you feel good. It's called a process addiction because it is unlike heroin or all drug and alcohol addictions. It's not a substance you put in your brain to get high. It's you doing something that's natural and normal and abusing it to create the high. [00:33:19] So that's another piece.

The third piece I would talk about is when it becomes a habit to help you cope, you create pathways in your brain. So imagine you're in a 1980s neighborhood and there is a mall down the street and the kids always use your backyard as a shortcut to get to that mall. After a while, the grass is worn away and you see the dirt path through your backyard. So that makes you mad. So you go tell the kids, "Walk somewhere else."

Well, what happens is for porn users and their habitual use, they wear a pathway in their brain. So the pathway is, I'm frustrated, how do I get to feeling better? So they take the porn path and it creates a very deep groove in their brain and it becomes a really ingrained habit on top of the biochemical processes and the three A's. [00:34:27]

In the recovery world, they suggest to become sober so that you can get the grass to grow in that pathway that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days so that you can remain sober for 90 days and you have the accountability and support of other men who get it.

So for a heroin addict, they have found that it takes 90 days of sobriety for the heroin to come out of the hair follicle. They just have extrapolated that 90 days to other things. And so that's why it's 90 meetings in 90 days to help sobriety and to help that pathway fill in and for him to find new, healthier ways to cope with frustration and shame.

Laura Dugger: That's a huge part of the initial piece of recovery. [00:35:27] But then back to the spouse who's been sexually betrayed through infidelity or pornography, what are they likely to experience?

Bonny Burns: Right. In 2005, there was a pivotal study done by Dr. Barb Steffens, and it's called The Traumatic Nature of Disclosure for Wives of Sexual Addicts. And what she found is that nearly 70% of women, when they discover the problematic sexual behavior of their husbands, they experience a type of PTSD. It's called betrayal trauma.

So for her, she is probably going to experience a roller coaster of emotions. She will experience hypervigilance, which is we talked about that earlier, the control. But that's just out of safety seeking to keep herself okay. [00:36:28] She has probably experienced intrusive thoughts and nightmares, problems with sleep, lack of sleep, insomnia, or she could go the other way, and depression and oversleeping kicks in.

But what happens really at the core is that when you understand that your husband has been unfaithful, your brain doesn't know the difference between that death of trust and the death of a real person. So your brain goes into the fight, flight, or freeze mode, which is called the threat preparedness mode. And so your body gets ramped up.

Me personally, on D-Day, it was about 3 a.m. I was running circles through my house. And that is not me. But the fight or flight had kicked in and I had to move. I had to move. It was the craziest thing. [00:37:30]

So after that initial shock, those things can hang around too long and that's what creates PTSD. So betrayal trauma is a type of PTSD and it is excruciating for many weeks. For many weeks. So what I suggest and the reason I became an APSAT certified partner coach is because that woman has been trained to walk with you during this devastating time. She helps you process, you can vent to her. But she also is able to coach you in taking care of yourself, coach you in figuring out what are boundaries if you don't know what they are and how they're beneficial.

For the wife who's just experienced this betrayal, it could be there's such a spectrum of things she could experience, but they're all normal. And I want you to know you're not alone. [00:38:30] Because there was a study done in, I think, 2017 of problematic sexual behavior across the board in the U.S. and 10% of men... it was a self-reported study, so I think this is on the low end, but 10% of men identify as having problematic sexual behavior.

So, say... I'm not sure how many people... say there's 100 million, I'm not sure how many are in the U.S. If there's 100 million people, 10% of a hundred million is a lot. And if 50% of those men are married, that's a lot of betrayed wives out there who aren't talking. But I am. So I am. You are not alone. And knowing that you're not alone helps. Because just as addiction is built in isolation and recovery is in community, our recovery is in community as well.

Laura Dugger: That's so helpful to have the next step. [00:39:29] We're going to link to your website where if that is the next step somebody needs to begin their recovery and healing as the betrayed spouse, that's helpful to have something to grab on to.

How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully you've been blessed through the content, and now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.

I appreciate that passage of Scripture you had shared earlier in Luke. Are there any other scriptures that have been especially meaningful to you or your clients on this journey?

Bonny Burns: Oh, yes. Isaiah 43:1-3. And I'm going to pull it up and read it. "He who created you, he who formed you, Israel, says, Do not fear for I have redeemed you. [00:40:31] I have summoned you by name and you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep you over. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, and the flames will not set you ablaze. For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior, and I gave Egypt for your ransom."

I clung to this through the early worst days because I thought I was going to disappear. It felt like an implosion, like I was being pulled into this black void of nothingness. It was the craziest I had ever felt. But I went back to this verse because it told me that God won't let the devastation of this destroy me. He won't let the flames burn me. It's pain. We know that there's going to be suffering because Jesus said there would be, but that He's our peace. [00:41:32] Father God told me that He would protect me. And I clung to that, that God cared enough to know my name and He knew what I was going through.

I'll tell you a little tiny piece of His care for me. The day after our D-Day, I took my coffee. We live out in the country. I took my coffee onto the front porch, and I was sitting there. It was probably six in the morning. And I love nature. I love animals. And through the front yard traipsed a mama deer with her two newborn fawns. And to me, that was God seeing me. That was God giving me a little nod, "I'm here. Here's a little blessing for you. We're going to be okay. We're going to get through this."

And I'll tell you what, our anniversary of our D-Day was not too long ago. And the day before, I saw another mama with her two baby fawns. [00:42:35]

Laura Dugger: Wow. As painful and like you said, excruciating as your journey has been, you provide such encouragement by being willing to share the raw journey. I'm wondering, do you have any other hope you want to encourage someone with who may be in the midst of this heartbreak right now?

Bonny Burns: The hope is God does see you. Now, a lot of betrayed wives do have a crisis of faith at this time. They wonder, why didn't he stop this if He knew it was going on? Or why didn't He show me earlier the severity of this? I mean, I thought that. We've been married 36 years in a few months. It's a long time. Why didn't He show me? That's a lot of time lost. I was robbed of so much.

I understand questioning God and being mad at Him. [00:43:37] And we are absolutely allowed to be mad at Him. But He is there. Another of my favorite passages is, even though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I am with you. Doesn't say He's going to save us from it, but He says He's with us in it.

And that is the hope I give to women who are fresh and raw. He sees you and He's walking with you. Now, what else He asks of us is that we stand up, we start to look at ourselves, start to take care of ourselves, start to find resources because our recovery kind of mirrors the men in that we need to find community. We need to do a lot of self-care.

Early on, that self-care includes sleeping, just like in that... I don't know if you listened to our other previous podcast where we talked about how important sleep was for our sexual function. [00:44:44] Sleep is imperative for a woman who's healing from betrayal trauma because it helps your brain heal. I mean, chemically, physically, your brain changes with betrayal trauma. Sleep gives us the restorative energy, replenishes the neurochemicals, replenishes everything. Sleep is so important. That's where we start is with sleep. We go from there.

Laura Dugger: I love how you're using that word "restore". That is my prayer for anyone going through this, that the Lord would restore and would redeem and continue to be near and dear to everyone in this journey.

But as you mentioned, people need community. If someone is relating to this topic and they want to walk with you alongside them, where can they specifically find and connect with you?

Bonny Burns: Absolutely. My website is strongwives.com. [00:45:48] That's where you'll find my schedule for coaching. You can book an appointment. You can read more about me, my training, where I come from. I'm here to help the wounded restore. Actually, it's just such an honor that I can help God in this work. I don't say I help God in this work. No. I am His vessel. He uses me in this work.

The verse in Corinthians where it talks about with the comfort you have been given, you can comfort others. That's what I work from. I'm not perfect. I make mistakes. I'm still flawed. I'm still a human. But I'll do my darndest to walk with you in the best I can.

Laura Dugger: I'm so grateful for the work that you do, Bonny. Like I said, we will put this link in the show notes so hopefully people can reach out and get the help that they need. [00:46:49] You are this beautiful mix of scientific knowledge and scripture references. I know that you also value sense of humor.

As we've gone deep today, we're going to come up for air because we are called The Savvy Sauce because “savvy” is synonymous with practical knowledge. As we close our time out together, my final question for you today is, what is your savvy sauce?

Bonny Burns: As a sexually betrayed wife and a Christian sexuality educator, my savvy sauce is that I can see beauty from ashes. I just think it's a spiritual gift that Christ gave us that we can have redemption even after these horrible stories because of His resurrection.

Laura Dugger: Wow. What a place to end. Thank you, Bonny. You really have displayed Christ and how it looks to walk with Him through some of the most unimaginable betrayal and how He's turned those ashes into beauty in you. [00:47:52] So thank you for being so vulnerable with us and sharing that gift with us today. Thank you for being my repeat guest.

Bonny Burns: Thanks, Laura.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. [00:48:51]

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. [00:49:50]

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:50:51]

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.